got an email from exsMM's W

[noforgiveness]

'Zactly...even if you don't "OWE" his wife anything...its easy enough to see her viewpoint for a moment, see what you can do to defuse the situation and prevent a recurrence of the same issue in the future.

 

Again...this is just empathy.

 

Good post, WS.

 

and that I think is what is lacking in the women that allow themselves to become ow. They lack empathy for others. Me me me. I am not speaking of ow in the short term but the ones that hear mm lie to his wife continually and help with the charade.

[Owl]

Clearly I said that while she didn't "OWE" the wife anything...she could have taken a minute to understand why the wife did what she did.

 

Whether or not she's got compassion, understanding what motivates the other person (whether you like them or not) can help you work out a good resolution.

 

In combat, I made darn sure I knew why my enemy did what...I didn't LIKE him, I didn't feel compassion for him...but understanding him helped me find ways to deal with him as needed.

 

Simple enough.

[Tomcat33]

Clearly I said that while she didn't "OWE" the wife anything...she could have taken a minute to understand why the wife did what she did.

 

Whether or not she's got compassion, understanding what motivates the other person (whether you like them or not) can help you work out a good resolution.

 

In combat, I made darn sure I knew why my enemy did what...I didn't LIKE him, I didn't feel compassion for him...but understanding him helped me find ways to deal with him as needed.

 

Simple enough.

 

 

Really? And what's the resolution when your oponent in combat comes at you with a machine gun, you sit there and ponder and try to understand why he wants to kill you?

[Owl]

Nope...because by the time he's coming at me with a machine gun, I've already gotten to know him. I know what trail he's taking, I know how many men he's got, and how many rounds he's carrying. I know what time he's going to be where on that trail.

 

Based on that knowledge, I find a spot in the trail where I can plan an ambush...and...given how well I know him now...I also put claymores in the trees in the area I know he's going to run into when I begin my assault.

 

See...knowledge is the REAL power.

 

Empathy is one way to gain that knowledge.

 

Has it occurred to you that all the time I've spent on this forum has taught me a lot of EMPATHY for OW/OM? That the advice I tend to give them isn't dripping in sarcasm and anger and venom BECAUSE of that empathy? That the reason I can post advice to them about how to deal with their hurt and pain at the end of the affair is because I can empathize with them, even though I don't agree with the actions that led them to that pain in the first place?

 

Perhaps you might try spending some time on a BS forum...it could be a wonderful learning opporunity to broaden your horizons with.

[Tomcat33]

Nope...because by the time he's coming at me with a machine gun, I've already gotten to know him. I know what trail he's taking, I know how many men he's got, and how many rounds he's carrying. I know what time he's going to be where on that trail.

 

Based on that knowledge, I find a spot in the trail where I can plan an ambush...and...given how well I know him now...I also put claymores in the trees in the area I know he's going to run into when I begin my assault.

 

See...knowledge is the REAL power.

 

Empathy is one way to gain that knowledge.

 

Has it occurred to you that all the time I've spent on this forum has taught me a lot of EMPATHY for OW/OM? That the advice I tend to give them isn't dripping in sarcasm and anger and venom BECAUSE of that empathy? That the reason I can post advice to them about how to deal with their hurt and pain at the end of the affair is because I can empathize with them, even though I don't agree with the actions that led them to that pain in the first place?

 

Perhaps you might try spending some time on a BS forum...it could be a wonderful learning opporunity to broaden your horizons with.

 

 

All fine and dandy but in the case of LF, knowledge is irrelvant, she has moved on wants nothing more to do with them and quite frankly shouldn't care what happens to them so who should she stop to asses the situation for, HER or the W? She will get no benefit from talking to the W at ALL.

[Owl]

She would if she spoke with the wife, and the end result is that MM never attempts to add her to another friends list, or seeks any other potential contact with her.

 

It helps ensure her end goal...nothing more to do with either of them.

 

Which very well would have been vioalated at a later date by MM anyway...if he added her to his contact list, its a sure bet that contact was coming at some point.

 

With her knowledge of the wife's position, she can use the wife to help ensure that NC remains in place.

 

Pretty simple logic, no?

[wildsoul]

All fine and dandy but in the case of LF, knowledge is irrelvant, she has moved on wants nothing more to do with them and quite frankly shouldn't care what happens to them so who should she stop to asses the situation for, HER or the W? She will get no benefit from talking to the W at ALL.

Sometimes it's nice to do things to put others at ease, whether or not there is a direct benefit to us.

[Tomcat33]

She would if she spoke with the wife, and the end result is that MM never attempts to add her to another friends list, or seeks any other potential contact with her.

 

It helps ensure her end goal...nothing more to do with either of them.

 

Which very well would have been vioalated at a later date by MM anyway...if he added her to his contact list, its a sure bet that contact was coming at some point.

 

With her knowledge of the wife's position, she can use the wife to help ensure that NC remains in place.

 

Pretty simple logic, no?

 

That's LF's call not ours, but you are more than welcome to suggest things it IS why reached out to people for their opinions. And as usual you have yours I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

[Owl]

And as usual you have yours I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

 

True 'dat!

 

And I think its a good thing that they never will...

 

If it weren't for how men who are "dogs" are viewed, I'd almost change my LS name...given how you and I fight!

[whichwayisup]

True 'dat!

 

And I think its a good thing that they never will...

 

If it weren't for how men who are "dogs" are viewed, I'd almost change my LS name...given how you and I fight!

 

You two are funny...

 

and the end result is that MM never attempts to add her to another friends list, or seeks any other potential contact with her.

 

The thing is, she added him, she could have denied the friend request from the start. And, if he tries to add her on another application like facebook or myspace, she can easily deny the friend request and block him as well. She has to do her part in this too..

[Tomcat33]

 

And I think its a good thing that they never will...

 

If it weren't for how men who are "dogs" are viewed, I'd almost change my LS name...given how you and I fight!

 

 

THAT we can agree on.

 

Why would you want to change OWL? It is good. You are a HOOT!

[Tomcat33]

 

The thing is, she added him, she could have denied the friend request from the start. And, if he tries to add her on another application like facebook or myspace, she can easily deny the friend request and block him as well. She has to do her part in this too..

 

 

I totally agree.

 

But the thing is this was done way back after they broke up like more than a year ago, no? So to get an email now asking about this seems like opening up an old can of worms.

 

The way I see it is she's a cheater, he's a liar (he lead LF on) and so they deserve each other and the web they have woven. Getting involved is really not a good move regardless of how much "good" you think you will do at the end of the day you are always the bad guy and more often than not the BS feels like you aren't being honest anyway and gets defensive so what's the point?

[whichwayisup]

So to get an email now asking about this seems like opening up an old can of worms.

 

She probably didn't log onto the site and just did recently and that's how she found out someone (LF) was searching her name. That and she noticed LF's name on her husband's friends list. It could be that simple.

[Owl]

That was my thought too.

 

She probably didn't JUST decide to do this as a lark...more than likely, she just found out about him adding himself as LF's 'friend' on the website in question.

[Tomcat33]

She probably didn't log onto the site and just did recently and that's how she found out someone (LF) was searching her name. That and she noticed LF's name on her husband's friends list. It could be that simple.

 

 

I get that.

 

What would happen if there was no way to contact LF and this woman had suspiscions her H was lying to her then what? What would she do?

She would have to face the music and decide "do I trust him or not"

 

I mean how much more does she have to keep giving these people?

Let them figure it out I say.

 

No one gave a rat's azz when LF was dumped so that he could go work on his marriage with his cheating W, there was no "Oh well I cheated on him and now I am getting what I deserved he left me to go off with someoneone new" no, there was "oh someone else took interest in him??? WELL I'd better get him back now" and with that LF was left out of the picture so...

 

Whatev, let them deal with their own turn of events.

[OWoman]

You know full well that 'exes' are the primary OW/OM out there. That shared history is exactly why contact with them OFTEN results in an affair.

 

Owl, do you have stats for this, or is this just an opinion? It seems so utterly counter-intuitive to me, I can't believe anyone would actually do such a thing! Someone is an ex for a reason - who would want to put themselves through that again? That "shared history" would surely be enough to guarantee that any contact would be distant and civil at best, but more likely icy and uninterested in the extreme!

 

Sure, everyone is different, but if any of my exes were to contact me with a view to picking things up again, their life insurance better be paid up because their dependents are going to need it!

[stillafool]

Personally, I don't see what the wife's problem with LF could be? If he wanted LF he would have stayed with her and not went back to his wife. She has nothing to fear.

[Owl]

Owl, do you have stats for this, or is this just an opinion? It seems so utterly counter-intuitive to me, I can't believe anyone would actually do such a thing! Someone is an ex for a reason - who would want to put themselves through that again? That "shared history" would surely be enough to guarantee that any contact would be distant and civil at best, but more likely icy and uninterested in the extreme!

 

Sure, everyone is different, but if any of my exes were to contact me with a view to picking things up again, their life insurance better be paid up because their dependents are going to need it!

 

Like anything else...I can go and pull the sources that I got this information from, but they don't quote hard numbers either. On top of that, I know that you don't trust those sources either, so that would be a waste of time.

 

BUT...take a look through the stories on this forum, on the 'infidelity' one...go out and look at the stories on other marriage building/affair/infidelity related sites.

 

You'll see a very common theme...unrequited or unacknowledged 'love' with someone they knew years ago, now suddenly 'back in touch'...and instant brand new love affair.

 

Or, affairs that start with former marriage partners that 'get back together' years after the divorce.

 

Its one of the main reasons that most OW/OM want to ensure that the BS is as far out of the picture as possible once the WS leaves to be with them.

 

An 'ex' often has an 'in' with their 'old flame'.

 

"Old flames" are called that for a reason...because they often spark into new ones.

 

Not everyone feels this way...some people completely burn the bridges with their exes. But a LOT of people don't.

 

If they knew their way into your heart once...they often know the way back in as well.

[Owl]

Personally, I don't see what the wife's problem with LF could be? If he wanted LF he would have stayed with her and not went back to his wife. She has nothing to fear.

 

So you'd be completely fine with your H reconnecting with a previous lover? One that he was seeing while the two of you were seperated? No worries at all that they might resume their relationship?

 

How many times have we seen stories on this site where WS's have wandered back and forth between the affair partner and their betrayed spouse?

[OWoman]

Like anything else...I can go and pull the sources that I got this information from, but they don't quote hard numbers either. On top of that, I know that you don't trust those sources either, so that would be a waste of time.

 

BUT...take a look through the stories on this forum, on the 'infidelity' one...go out and look at the stories on other marriage building/affair/infidelity related sites.

 

You'll see a very common theme...unrequited or unacknowledged 'love' with someone they knew years ago, now suddenly 'back in touch'...and instant brand new love affair.

 

OK, the unrequited / unacknowledged ones I can understand, but they'd hardly be exes. To be an ex, something must actually have happened.

 

 

Or, affairs that start with former marriage partners that 'get back together' years after the divorce.

 

I know of only one such case - where the split was because the W wanted kids and the H didn't, so she married someone else, had kids, split with him when they were babies, took up with someone else (my friend) who raised the kids to adulthood, and then dumped him for her original H since the kids were out the house and no longer an issue. But I thought that that was a rather unique situation, all told...

 

Its one of the main reasons that most OW/OM want to ensure that the BS is as far out of the picture as possible once the WS leaves to be with them.

 

ha - I'd love my MM's BW to be at the bottom of a very deep ocean right now, but not because there's any threat of them getting back together...

 

An 'ex' often has an 'in' with their 'old flame'.

 

"Old flames" are called that for a reason...because they often spark into new ones.

 

Not everyone feels this way...some people completely burn the bridges with their exes. But a LOT of people don't.

 

If they knew their way into your heart once...they often know the way back in as well.

 

Obviously we know very different kinds of people! I've had to stop a couple of drunk friends dialling up exes, but it wasn't for sex, it was to hurl abuse at them for some remembered misdemeanour from the distant past!

 

My xH and I have exchanged maybe 10 words since we split (which would be about 1 word every two years, on average) though the words have been civil enough - we just have nothing to discuss. xLovers, well - some I've had contact with in other contexts, some have contacted me out of the blue to "find out how I am" and been brushed off, and others have passed gracefully into history without resistance. I really don't feel any "unfinished business" that would require resolution between the sheets - there are so many potential lovers out there, why not go for something that has, at least, the outside chance of working, rather than settling for something that you know for a fact didn't?

[GPFan]

How is this any different than calling someone, having them answer and then hanging up on the person? Common behaviour amongst teens but most adults would be embarrassed.

 

Both their names came up but no info per se, but apparently this site sends email if someone has been 'searching you' as I got an email from the site saying he had added me as a "friend", but never heard anything else and forgot about it. Still have no idea why he did that.

Telephone rings.

 

Then last week out of the blue I get an email to say I had a msge on that site so I logged in to find an email from his W. The basic gist of it was "what are you doing searching for me on the internet" (umm...free country last time I looked honey) and "why is xxx (her H) connected to you on your profile as a friend".

Wife answers telephone, sees caller ID and queries as to why you are calling.

 

 

I haven't replied and am not all that inclined to, but was thinking it's ironic that now after over a year of NC she will believe we were still talking.

No answer, hang up.

 

 

 

 

Should I email her and set her straight or just let it be? I have no idea of course whether she's asked him about it, but as his "join" date is the same as the day he got the search (early this year) it won't fly that it was a "leftover" from when he was separated......

Now you want to "set her straight" in a hostile manner? What has she done to you here?

[Terminator]

Not the same thing at all - a "search" is not "attempting to make contact" which a phone call certainly WOULD be.

 

I fail to see why you think setting the matter straight is "hostile".

 

There's some definite perceptions colored by personal experiences on this forum I can see.

[OpenBook]

Because using phrases like "she's clearly paranoid", and "that's what you get for staying with a known proven cheater" come across as angry and judgemental of someone who's clearly just defending her marriage.

 

I'd do both...and then compare the stories.

 

I'd confront my wife, get her "side".

 

I wouldn't tell her, but I'd contact him, and get HIS "side".

 

I'd also snoop around the website in question to find out how the notification process worked for myself.

 

And THEN I'd decide what the truth most likely was.

 

Assuming of course I didn't walk after the deal breaker of resuming contact with him.

 

Um... OK. It's angry and judgmental to call a BS "paranoid" and "that's what they get for staying with a known cheater" when that's exactly what they're doing... sneaking around and sleuthing and playing elaborate mind games to try to catch their S in a lie??

 

My God. I will never understand how people can live out their lives like that.

[GPFan]

Not the same thing at all - a "search" is not "attempting to make contact" which a phone call certainly WOULD be.

 

I fail to see why you think setting the matter straight is "hostile".

I disagree as most people search with a goal of making contact, else it is snooping and nothing more. This is analogous to telephoning for the purpose of determining whether or not someone is home (answer and hang up). You weren't sending a signal, whether digital or analog, for the purpose of contact but for some other goal.

 

 

I was feeling a little sad and lonely and did a search on his and his W's names on a couple of classmates/reunion type sites.

This wasn't a general search, it was very specific.

 

 

 

Lookingforward isn't hiding her contempt for the wife, I am sure "setting her straight" would be handled with contempt on full display.

I'm not angry at all, but I do loathe cheaters so there you go, I have zero compassion for her....and I have moved on - her concern is only for herself, I've seen that enough times to know.

 

 

 

There's some definite perceptions colored by personal experiences on this forum I can see.

The invalid assumption that correlation implies cause is probably among the two or three most serious and common errors of human reasoning.

 

~Stepen Jay Gould

[Owl]

Um... OK. It's angry and judgmental to call a BS "paranoid" and "that's what they get for staying with a known cheater" when that's exactly what they're doing... sneaking around and sleuthing and playing elaborate mind games to try to catch their S in a lie??

 

My God. I will never understand how people can live out their lives like that.

 

Notice she DID catch him in a lie...he'd signed himself up as a friend on the OP's page, and not told his wife.

 

You seem to think that this distrust lasts forever...but it doesn't. The trust can be rebuilt. With time, and with effort on both parts.

 

And yes, those comments ARE angry. It doesn't matter if they're aimed at the BS or the OW...they're angry and judgemental.

 

Easy enough to understand.