Limbo land of doom

[canadian976]

Ok I'll try to keep this short as I'm sure these stories are all the same. I have posted on here before but my perspective keeps changing so please dont drag up my previous posts and answer them instead of this one.

 

Nov 07 my fiancee suddenly said she wasnt happy. Moved out to her cousins for a week. Jan 08 same thing. Feb 08 gave back the engagement ring. I tried to talk to her about what she wanted to do over the long haul, long engagement, never marry me etc. but she didnt want to talk about it asked for 2 weeks. 2 weeks turned to 2 months and I eventually got mad and said come on give me an answer please. Still no real answer at that point. She cited "confusion" and was going to counselling. We had gone together but the problems were mostly her problems; I was frustrated mostly dealing with her confusion and lack of ability to make any definite decisions or give any clear answers on how we were backsliding.

 

Jul 08 I found something I didn't like to find. She had had a deep emotional affair with a friend of mine, started falling for him (he was married, 16 years older than her, no sex) and I caught her in the act of sneaking around with him. Was a pretty traumatic time for both of us, because all she wanted to do was lie and I knew everything, I tried to get her to tell the truth for 2 months before throwing the proof at her. After the aftermath, we worked a lot of things out and read a great book on how to maintain trust in a relationship, not just by faith but by actions. After practicing this for 6+ months we got engaged. Well what I found was a passage about some other guy in a drawing book left on the coffee table. Nothing hot or heavy, just about how much passion she's had in her life since she met "greg". I asked her about it and she said that it was creative writing and she was trying to help our relationship and felt bad because she keeps doing the wrong things and hurting me.

 

Aug 08 I was trying to spend time with her after being away for the weekend, she wanted to be alone, I had had enough and blew my lid. I wanted to know this greg guy's home address, telephone number, I wanted to kick his ass. She was adamant that the guy didnt exist. I cried in front of her and said I was exasperated, on this painful backslide with zero answers and finding that and being away for the weekend then trying to spend time with her and she wanted to be alone, I'm not a violent person who gets in fights; just that I'm feeling my life slip through my fingers and nothing else seems to make sense. (To be honest, after the last affair my spidey senses are quite sharp; I dont think that she was seeing much if any of another guy, I know her schedule pretty well).

 

Anyways next morning she wrote me a note packed up most of her things and left. She was quite cold when I came with roses next day to her work trying to apologize for blowing out and saying lets work things out. She was bitchy and cold for the next two weeks, until she moved out into her own place, some shared accomodation with roomates she doesnt know. She started to warm up a little bit after that.

 

We talked a few times, but she didn't want to talk about us or the terms of separation for "at least a month". I said, fine, how about this, I'll just relax on getting you to talk about anything until you get back from Hawaii. A month to the day she left she took off for a solitary trip to Hawaii for 9 days. Then she got back and started school at a new university the very next day. I tried to talk to her about stuff when she got back from Hawaii, figuring she would have had all this time to think about it but she got upset that I was really pressuring her for some answers as to what she was wanting out of this separation and left.

 

Just before she went to Hawaii she came over and we had awesome sex; got her off 9 times. She came over the weekend after she got back and more awesome sex, although only 4 times that time. I keep trying to talk about what is going on between us and what she thinks she would like but she keeps deferring it.

 

I went to a counsellor and had a great long blabbermouth talk with her, came back and said by Sep 7 I want to know what's going on, can't take the putting it off anymore. She said she'd see me that Sunday.

 

I kind of held her hostage a bit, she wanted me to fix her computer and this was an operation that would take at least 2-3 hours. So I fixed up a really nice dinner and made some pie to make her as comfortable as possible. Between dinner and the computer fixing it was a great time to talk about stuff because there was always something to distract a little bit to give her some breaks in the talk.

 

I told her I had realized what I had done wrong, in not spending enough time with her, maybe being a bit too closed minded and not wanting to maybe do enough things with her, finding all of these other things going on so important and how I now realize. I was being honest, I cried a bit through it. I asked her to give me a second chance, or a final chance, and that didn't have to mean moving back in or putting the engagement ring back on, just a committment to start talking about things and working them out.

 

The worst possible answer: can you give me more time to think about it? She wanted 2 more weeks.

 

Well in 2 more weeks there's midterms to study for (also my Birthday!) and I've been waiting and waiting around for any opportunity to talk about even the terms of the separation since she left! I've been waiting on knowing if she doesn't think I'm "the one" anymore since February!

 

I feel like I've tried everything. I have tried just hanging out with her and leaving the relationship talk out of it so we could have fun, I've tried just talking about things being as calm as humanly possible and trying to avoid arguing but she will get frustrated and upset. I've tried doing nice things for her so she will even feel like maybe she should just talk about things just to humor me, even if it's out of guilt.

 

There are these constant themes that come up when we do talk about it:

 

"I'm just confused right now, trying to grow as a person and learn to live with myself"

 

"I'm treating this as though we are married. In marriage you need to be separated 12 months before you divorce. I could have just broken up with you and then tried to get back together with you after X months but I think that separation better for us."

 

"I need more time to think about things. I am too busy to think about this stuff right now with school."

 

"I dont want to talk about anything right now, I don't have the energy."

 

"I just can't commit to a serious relationship right now. I need to take this time to be on my own to grow as a person and feel more comfortable being alone."

 

--

Now, I will say that I know damn well that while some of our problems we had are definitely my own fault, but it takes two to tango and it's definitely not ALL my fault. I am a very supportive, caring man. I'm a sous chef who cooks awesome meals. I work from home so when she's been busy with school or work I have taken up the slack around the house.

 

On my end, my responsibility in our backslide is that I was stubborn and kind of stuck in my habits. I didn't really want to try too many new things. Some of it was stupid, like she would really want to go to the beach and watch the sunset or go for a trip to a nearby city to see her family and I just wanted to stay home. I realize now that that was dumb, I shouldn't have been so stubborn, I've learned my lesson there.

 

On her end, what she had done wrong is that she's been too demanding and too expectant of me to want to do whatever she wants to do. She'd get mad at me because she wanted to go grocery shopping and I was busy at the time and she would say "theres all these couples there shopping together and ..." or she wants to go on some trip to some far away place and maybe I didn't have the money and didn't think that dropping 2 grand on a vacation to someplace was a priority at the point in time so she'd get upset. Or she would decide that "us time" meant that we'd do this thing on a special day like new years or whatever and she'd drop it on me, if I disagreed with it or tried to suggest something else she'd get pissed off, like the plan was all set in stone in her mind before I'd ever find out about it, then if I objected or had something else going on it was like I didn't want to spend time with her. After the affair she wanted to do a 5 month exchange program to live on campus to the opposite side of the world; I wasnt comfortable with that and she was quite upset that I would not want her to go. It wasnt just trust issues, the place is dangerous (South Africa), 2 out of 5 women raped in the past year, nearly 20% HIV infection rate, high violent crime rate; trust issues were part of it but what scared me the most was high rape rate coupled with high HIV rate; what if my fiancee came back with HIV because she was raped or just had too many drinks one night and was lonely at some party?

 

In counselling on my end, the counsellor figures that she is doing 2 things: a) avoiding the issues, delaying. b) being "all-or-nothing"

 

I went to counselling with her twice during the 10 month backslide, and from what I could tell what her counsellor figured that she was doing was (although I was present so I'm sure the conversations were more measured) a) being too worried about what other people think, and b) not comfortable being alone and on her own

 

I do get the feeling that she still loves me very, very much; and that this separation is something that she's forcing herself to do. In what little talk I do get out of her, she has said that while she was unhappy for quite some time, there were some very good times that happened in between so its not like it was all bad.

 

My dilemma I guess is this: if she won't talk about it, and keeps delaying me, even on the terms of separation, and if we never talk about our issues they wont ever get resolved. I see this whole thing as an exercise in how to grow apart; if she was concerned about that in the first place then this is like adding nitrous oxide to the problem or diesel to the fire. I am willing to make some constructive changes to myself; and hopefully she would reciprocate, but I feel like this is all a battle that's going on inside of her own mind, because she will not share much of anything with me as to what she's thinking, what she's going through, or whatever.

 

I can see that there are probably hundreds of layers where we miscommunicated or took eachother to mean one thing when we meant something else.

 

I'm trying to keep the flame alive by taking her on little mini-dates and not talking about things but she seems to keep getting frustrated by that. We've had sex three times since the separation and every time it was great; but when I take her on a "date" she is uncomfortable even holding my hand, its like we hold hands for a few minutes then she lets go, as though she just realized that she "shouldnt do that" or something.

 

We were together for 8 years, living together for 7, engaged for 1.5 years. I am 31 and she is 25. She moved out and separated six weeks ago to today, Sep 8 08

 

HELP!

[Owl]

Frankly...you've already got your answers. She's not marriage material. Her priorities are NOT a monogamous relationship.

 

She's ALREADY cheated on you, and you're not even married yet.

 

These are some HUGE red flags.

 

Bluntly, I would heartily recommend that you back off. Give her that space she craves...get away from her...deal with the pain and withdrawl at that seperation, and learn to be happy without her.

 

Bottom line...don't wait for her any longer.

 

This will either trigger her to make changes to keep from losing you, or it'll prepare you for a life with someone who DOES want to be in a real relationship with you.

[misternoname]

Run away as fast as you can! My wife had an affair within the first year we were married. I stayed and she strayed again (and again). Wasted 24 years thinking she would change. Now we're finally getting a divorce (after her most recent fling).

 

The old saying "once a cheater always a cheater" is unfortunately true.

 

Another thing I discovered, when they say it was only "emotional" don't believe it. I'd bet you any sum of money that your girl slept with those other guys...I was fed that same line of BS and it was all lies.

 

Cut your losses and find a faithful parnter. You'll thank me down the road.

 

Sorry if I sound cold but BEEN THERE DONE THAT!

[canadian976]

I know this is going to sound naiive and stupid; and I fully know that I might just be totally wrong on this one...

 

But I don't think there's another guy. I think that if anything, what set her off was the URGE to perhaps cheat again, and this "learning to be alone" stuff is her way of trying to fix this problem inside herself. If she was looking for a crazy time with another guy, she would have rented a one bedroom apartment or a studio that would be private, at the price she's paying she could have found something. But instead she moved into a rooming house thats anything but private for the same money. I've met the roomates, and I'm certain there's nothing going on there (the 2 males loving there are both gay, the female has a boyfriend).

 

Although i will say that the throught has crossed my mind in my crazy roller coaster ride here more than a few times. I've put and invested a whole lot of thought into that idea as a possibility. I know some will say that I'm just blinding myself to the obvious but... I have been through this before, all of the stages and my spidey senses on that regard are supreme. As for the passage that I found, yes I was extremely alarmed and very suspicious because that's probably the worst thing I could have found. But I think that that was more of a catalyst for her in that she realizes that she has to fix this flaw in herself before she can commit to me or anyone.

 

I dont know, I'm probably going to get jumped on all over for this beleif, but I've thought long and hard and I don't think that her with another guy is the answer; even though it may be the obvious one. Its not that she's "not capable of that" at all, its just her attitude and tone and schedule and a lot of other factors that tell me otherwise, from the place that she moved into to her temperament lately and the fact that she went to Hawaii alone (verifiably).

 

If she had some new boyfriend and left me to give it a whirl, she would have set up her "new life" in a different way.

 

I could be wrong, but I'd like to explore other alternatives mostly centering around how I should get her to **** or get off the pot so to speak, and at least start talking about our issues, even if it leads to our ultimate demise as a couple.

[misternoname]

That possibility does indeed exist but I went through the exact same crap only to find out the truth well after I should have. Be prepared...like a Tsunami, you won't see it coming until it's too damn late unless you keep your eyes WIDE open!

[canadian976]

That possibility does indeed exist but I went through the exact same crap only to find out the truth well after I should have. Be prepared...like a Tsunami, you won't see it coming until it's too damn late unless you keep your eyes WIDE open!

 

Yeah, thats absolutely what happened during the 2005/06 affair so I hear what you're saying 110%. I'm not completely emotionally invested that there's nobody else just in case I get the memo down the road.

[Billy Bob]

Frankly...you've already got your answers. She's not marriage material. Her priorities are NOT a monogamous relationship.

 

She's ALREADY cheated on you, and you're not even married yet.

 

These are some HUGE red flags.

 

Bluntly, I would heartily recommend that you back off. Give her that space she craves...get away from her...deal with the pain and withdrawl at that seperation, and learn to be happy without her.

 

Bottom line...don't wait for her any longer.

 

This will either trigger her to make changes to keep from losing you, or it'll prepare you for a life with someone who DOES want to be in a real relationship with you.

 

Excellent advice here.. Show a disinterest, let her do the chasing. Tell her you're done and start dating other people.. if she is really afraid of losing you, if she really has the feelings for you that warrant an LTR with her, then she will come after you and try to make it work like you are doing now. If she doesn't? Then you know she's just not as into you as you think and you are better off moving on. Healthy relationships should not be one-sided.

[Billy Bob]

I would guess she has met someone and is keeping you on the back-burner until she sees how it goes...

[canadian976]

like I said, I think she's more in a tune-out mode than finding other guys. I met up with her at her university and she walked right by a huge party of 1000 people, when I showed up i wasn't sure if she'd even want to hook up, she waited around for 30 mins for me and then ended up getting on the bus less than 40 feet from a 1000 person party.

 

If she was in party mode then she would have gone there, and any guy she'd be with would probably be involved in the university.

 

Like I said, I'm not totally discounting that it's possible, but the number one sign of a cheater is that you feel it in your gut and I've felt it before and I just dont feel it this time. The situation and the choices are all wrong for hooking up with some new dude; if she's met a new love if anything it's her new university.

 

Anyways yeah you're right there, I've given it as much time as I can before prepping myself to potentially move on. I am dating other people now and have been for a few weeks. Not looking for anything serious or a 'replacement' because I wouldn't be ready for that at all. But more like hedging my bets I guess.

 

I really love this girl and we had such a great 8 years together... its the past 10 months that have been hell, so overall after 8 years 10 months is really not much more than a speed-bump. I had a talk with her about breaking up, she said she didn't want to, she brought up this 12 month thing mostly because she doesn't want to break up at all, she just wants me to leave her alone for an undetermined amount of time, she isn't even talking to family or friends much, just hiding out being a recluse.

 

What I am looking for is some advice on getting her to **** or get off the pot, she is avoiding talking about any of the issues or even the terms of the separation; but she's damn sure she wants a "separation" and not a "break up".

 

My counsellor isn't even sure if she's met someone else or not; her initial thought was yes but upon probing me and asking me questions she isn't so sure, thinks maybe this really is a "what about what I want" kind of thing after so long together. She has been going to counselling for 11 months now if that gives you any gander that she's going through something.

 

So yes she could be cheating on me or yes she could be falling for someone else but honestly, call it head-in-the-sand or whatever honestly if she just needs to bang some other guy because I am her first and only other sexual partner I'm kind of like so what I just dont want to know about it get it over with and maybe we can move on with our lives. I've screwed a bunch of chicks before I met her and she never got that chance. I sure as hell wouldn't like it or want it but if thats all she needs then I wouldn't even mind if she told me thats what she wants; I'm a good looking enough guy, I can go and play too then whoopdee doo lets get married as long as I know sure as hell it is done with and over.

 

You are probably going to think I'm pathetic. Lol. Anyways I have a date with a girl in 22 minutes so I'll wrap it up.

[americanmamma]

She doesn't want to marry you. If she did, you wouldn't have to write this huge thing all about how she keeps putting you off. Consider this in a positive light - at least she's being all wishy-washy and weird now instead of in 5 years, when you have a couple kids and a house. Find a woman who wants to be with you - you're spinning your wheels with this one.

[Mr. Lucky]

We were together for 8 years, living together for 7, engaged for 1.5 years. I am 31 and she is 25. She moved out and separated six weeks ago to today, Sep 8 08

So you were 23 and she was 17 when you started dating? That's flirting with jail time in some states .

 

Isn't it possible that she's being truthful with you when she says that she doesn't know what she wants to do? She's been with you her entire "adult" life and is still a student to boot. Her desire isn't unusual as she may simply want to live life a bit before settling down to marriage. You should probably give her the space she's asking for...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TrustInYourself]

Deep, mature relationships are hard. 8 years is nothing to scoff at.

 

As far as problems, lack of passion, and all the other little things that come inbetween two people after being together for a good amount of time. Those can be addressed and worked on.

 

I would give her space and time to understand what she wants. You have the ace. Time is on your side. Patience is a virtue.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Don't hedge bets unless you want to lose.

[canadian976]

Deep, mature relationships are hard. 8 years is nothing to scoff at.

 

As far as problems, lack of passion, and all the other little things that come inbetween two people after being together for a good amount of time. Those can be addressed and worked on.

 

I would give her space and time to understand what she wants. You have the ace. Time is on your side. Patience is a virtue.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Don't hedge bets unless you want to lose.

 

I like your perspective. I wish that we could address and work on our problems/issues/lack of passion/drifiting. Only problem is that she doesn't want to address anything, she's stuck in avoidance mode.

 

Even before she left she was stuck in avoidance mode, about working things out and the engagement and this has been going on for 10 months now, the final culmination being in that she considers us "separated" and avoids any talk about even the "ground rules" of the separation.

 

I hate the idea of hedging... but I guess my reason for wanting to is it's already been 2 months of separation, we haven't even talked about the ground rules for the separation and havent even come close to addressing our issues. What if I waited and waited until January, only to find out that she doesn't want to get back together anymore or that she's seeing someone else? Wouldn't those six months be just a complete waste of life, sitting around waiting for her to decide whether or not she wants to stop avoiding things? Shouldn't I enjoy life?

 

I also like the idea of giving her some space, I gave her a full 5 weeks of it without any expectation of working on our issues so we could start anew once she got back from her vacation. But IMO 5 weeks of space is enough time to have thought about things and stepped back. We're heading onto 8 weeks now and she still just wants more time.

 

It all seems just so very selfish. I understand that there are some times when you just need to be selfish, to put yourself first, but there's also times when you need to put that selfishness aside for a while and understand that your actions are hurting other people that you care about.

 

*also re the jail time comment: in Canada at the time when we met the legal age of consent was 14. Last year it was increased to 16 (which is a good thing). So no, no laws getting broken there.

[BCCA]

If you love someone, let them go. If its meant to be, it will be. But I can promise you this - NO ONE wants to make any decisions like that when someone is hounding them about it. The more you push for an answer, the less likely she'll be to have one for you. The best thing would probably be to embrace the seperation and move on. There are no ground rules for 'seperation', but I know youre thinking - you dont want her to sleep with anyone else. I gaurantee you that under no circumstances would she ever agree to be seperated and yet still feel like she cant do what she wants. Even if she isnt sleeping with anyone else, she wants to feel like a free person who can do as they please.

 

If it was me, I would consider this a done deal and get on. If she comes back, cross that bridge when you come to it. Dont let her keep you in limbo without and answers about what the future holds. Thats asking for disaster, and giving her WAY too much control. You need to do whats good for yourself. If she wants to be broken up, then youre a free man who should enjoy life!