2sure Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 I'm curious - I stopped stating facts to my husband as questions - and that helped. - I"m not sure I follow that When I confronted my husband with facts or proof of infidelity, inappropriateness, or anything he didnt want to face or talk about - he would gaslight me. He would deny, make excuses, have explanations for Everything. Often, he made me feel I was being paranoid, insecure, or controlling. He was so convincing and sincere, I began to doubt what I was seeing (phone bills, emails, texts) with my own eyes. Every question I confronted him with ended with me still upset, without the truth, and frustrated to the point of physical illness. So I stopped ASKING him anything. I would tell him what I knew and how I felt about it. I would not listen to any of his unsolicited responses because they were garbage, and I made this clear in a calm way. I was consistant. My own actions or responses to the things he had done to me were now out of his hands and into MINE. Im not a great communicator - does this help explain?
Author stuckinoz Posted September 16, 2008 Author Posted September 16, 2008 That is VERY clear - thank you. So, what now? Where are things now? If that approach works, does he stop with the texting, etc? I swear I feel like you & I are the exact same person....dealing with the exact same issues. I read what you type & it has & is happening to me.
Owl Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 What CONSEQUENCES is he suffering for those texts and such that cross the line?
oldguy Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 A 48yo married man with lady friends aged 25 and under? Please. Huge red flag. Taking into account all other details you have mentioned about him, he's definitely on his way to cheat, if he hasn't done so already.. I have to totally agree, I am 50 and flirting with anyone close to your children’s age is just plain wrong. And if your thinking that a 25 year old couldn’t possibly be attracted to a 48 year old, you dead wrong.
2sure Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Well, it has been a matter of my being the marriage police - which is a really crappy job. Many posters will tell you it is no way to live. In my case, I figured I would give it a whirl because I really wanted to save the marriage. But I couldnt do it alone and I didnt want to be sneaky - he HAD to help. He had to change cell #'s, the detailed phone bills all come to me, I have access to all his email. The most important thing was for him to recognize that decisons about what was or was not harmless contact in his mind - was now up to me. He had to allow me all this transparency. That in itself gave us something to rebuild trust on. Like Owl says - the most important thing was that there were now consequences. The first time he cheated , I did all of the above - but that was it. He cheated again. This time I asked NO QUESTIONS. I immediately contacted all parties involved including their significant others or husbands. Because I had found evidence enough for me to even think he MAY be cheating , I was very thorough with every single contact, message, email etc. that was not 100% business. He was mortified and angry. Now HE was the victim. I DID NOT DEFEND MY ACTIONS - I WOULDNT EVEN DISCUSS THEM. This was hard. I am not a controlling person. I mean, I was mortified as well, but knew it wasn't my doing. It was a last ditch effort. It has been a year and we have had no problems. The last time he cheated it was text messaging only - really just stupid stuff for a grown man. But in light of what had happened previously, I felt I had to take it seriously. He decided that the distraction of contact with other women wasnt worth the consequences. To be honest, he doesnt seem to miss it at all. He is a good man - but for some reason, until the consequences affected him directly and were out of his control - he just didnt see his actions in the same light as I did.
Owl Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 ...but for some reason, until the consequences affected him directly and were out of his control - he just didnt see his actions in the same light as i did. exactly my point.
Author stuckinoz Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Well, I don't think I am willing to "confront" any of these "little girls" (pisses him off when I refer to them as that) I don't think I'm in love enough to care one way or the other anymore. The funny thing is - for him - they are like a 'revolving door'. If you are a new waitress to the bar, you are young, you are pretty...Woo Hoo... You get the priviledge of being in his cell phone. If you are new, older & not so cute...then you don't make the cut. As soon as these girls either get fired or get a "big girl job & leave" then the texting to them subsides. Here's one more funny thing........When I do confront him about this here is his response....."They (meaning the girls) want us to get back together, they are happy we are trying" To which I respond...they have NO respect for me or this marriage or they wouldn't encourage this behavior. After our talk last weekend about the inappropriateness of the flirting, I have continued to check his phone. Yes, one name did jump to the top of "the list" (he erases them pretty well now, so all I can check is "recent log") I guess I am sort of at a point where I just need to decide....Will I always & forever be the marriage police - or do I just give up the fight. I know I can do it on my own - I am really close to moving my stuff back to my apt.
carhill Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Accept that this is the way he his. Is this healthy for you? You've repeatedly expressed your boundaries and he's ignored you. If you leave this time and go silent on him and truly heal yourself, this can work positively in two ways: first, it'll heal you; that's the most important. Secondly, he'll see you mean business and that reality is about to smack him in the face. Reality that a bevy of ego-feeding youngsters won't be able to fix. How do you think that'll go for him?
Author stuckinoz Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Yes, I know - part of the problem with the separation was that I still had contact with him. We would "date". Talk a few times on the phone during the day etc. I would plan my weekends around what he was doing. I didn't cut off communication with him to show that I meant business. He knew from day one that I was devistated (even though I was the one that initiated the separation) I am a bit of a smart-ass from time to time - one of the things he dislikes about me - He refers to comments or questions like this as "BITING COMMENTS".......BUT, I did ask him.......who will be there when you have that heart attack (he has heart issues & ignores them) who will take care of you. His answer is "don't care." See, I am fighting an uphill battle with this. It is making me bitter, weary & giving me wrinkles. It SUCKS! I missed the "Sense of family" that was the main reason I went back. Not for love, not for him.......for family.
2sure Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Stuck - Just wondering....has he ever given you any indication that he is interested in having an emotional or physical attachment to these girls? Is it possible even if the opportunity were presented to him - he would chicken out? Of course, your being uncomfortable with the communications is valid reason enough for it to stop or for you to move on. Stopping apparently isnt going to happen, right now. Is it possible this is his venting his mid life crisis? These girls are his red corvette...amd it will pass? If you stay, you wouldnt be able to be the marriage police. It is only more frustration to do it alone without his cooperation - like his deleting call records. If you stay, you would have to stop caring about his contact with these girls. Is that something that is possible? Just curious.
Author stuckinoz Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 2sure I guess I'm at that crossroads again ~~ Do I CARE one way or the other? This man has already had 2 mid-life crisis. How many do they get? I don't believe it's going to stop anytime soon. I am not totally sure if he would follow thru with anything more than flirting....of if he hasn't already.
2sure Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Bottom line: He is a big pain in your a**. You can analyze it all, but it all comes down to that doesnt it? He is wrong, he isnt an evil person, you love him, you are frustrated. Sigh. I know. Text messaging for God's sake!! I mean, its that important to him?? I'd like to shake him for you.
jmargel Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 I don't think the main issue here is the girls or him going out. I think it's his attitude and his unwillingness to put you as #1 priority. Though I am married myself, I have quite a few women in my cell phone and they call/text/email me. My wife knows about it and knows them. However my wife is my #1 priority and if she was too uncomfortable about it she would tell me and then would see what would change. He goes to these women because they give him attention. Not saying it's your fault but sounds like there is something lacking in the marriage besides what he is doing. Him going to the bar every night is not a good thing. We usually go on a Saturday night, which is about it. Too much of anything is not good. Him erasing his cell phone is a red flag, I don't do that with my female friends. Has some of my female friends flirted with me? Yes, but I think that's a natural instinct in women to do that. It happens not often but there are times where I even show my wife. She says the same thing. The thing here is he is keeping things a secret and the only things you know is what you found out. Good chance there is more that you don't know about. Don't be that ignorant to think he wouldn't stray. Women can be very charming and use you for their own advantage. These 'girls' as you put it, don't really want him. They see it as a challenge. I'm sure they do this to many other men as well. It's a way to get extra tips, extra money. These girls have no loyalty to you or your marriage. Don't confront them. They are looking for that, no matter what you would say to them, you would just stroke their ego. It's your husband who has the loyalty and it seems like for quite awhile he's been disrespecting you. Sounds like a parent-child relationship you two have. It's time for him to face the consequences for what he's done and to make some real big changes. As long as you tolerate it, he'll continue to do this. It takes action not words to fix this.
Author stuckinoz Posted September 19, 2008 Author Posted September 19, 2008 2 sure - I chuckled when I read your final line.....I'd like to shake him for you...Ya know what...I'd Let Ya! I am sure that there is more than meets the eye here. The phone bill comes to me so even though I don't know the content of the text messages, I do know how many go out & how many come in. I agree that these girls do not respect our relationship one bit. NO matter how many times he takes up for them. You are all 100% right - IF I am not #1 then there is no point in my being here.....making myself crazy & continuing to be the marriage police. 2sure - I am still interested in what's going on with your "texting" "gaslighting" etc...situation. How long have you been married?
Author stuckinoz Posted October 3, 2008 Author Posted October 3, 2008 Well, here's an update & an opportunity for me to vent. As I have said - I moved back home about a month ago. I have since been the marriage police. (SUCKS!!) I have done everything in my power to make this marriage work & he claims he wants it to work....Like he said this morning "It is working" "We're doing great" Anyway, here's the latest news....... Apparently his work phone, that he told me he couldn't text from, Ya can!! Wow, can you imagine my surprise what I found last night (she says with quite a bit of sarcasm in her voice)--Yep, more text messages. 2 new girlies (have no idea what bar they work in). I found out that he is buying them Metallica tickets - which I am sure are $100 a pop. PLUS, he is a month behind on the mortgage that I know of & probably other bills too. Side Note" <<He has a habit of buying drinks for people so they will like him - even though he CAN'T afford it. (he did that last night for a table of women at a place we went for dinner)>> I sat him down last Saturday - looked him in the eye & said the texting stops here. I have checked his personal phone every day since then & have seen no new texts or phone calls. - but got the idea to check the work phone last night (while he was passed out & snoring so bad I couldn't sleep) Someone tell me WHAT is wrong with men.....OK...People? I'm a good person, have made mistakes & have made amends for those mistakes. Am I wishing for too much out of a marriage? From a man I choose to build a life with? Am I wishing for too much as a 46 year old woman? Is there no TRUE love or trust left in this world? I am venting now - but calling my apartment complex back today to find out if my apartment has been rented - Keep your fingers crossed for me.
Owl Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 I wish you luck...I hope the apartment isn't rented. The only way that things are going to get better are if you start taking care of yourself in this situation. This would be your first and best step, IMHO.
jmargel Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 He won't change because he doesn't respect you. You are in a parent-child marriage. It's like dealing with a teenager who only cares about themself. You might yell and agrue about it, but you haven't taken any action. He hasn't faced any consequences. This is not a good marriage, what you are going through is not the norm. You also only know what you found out by yourself. I can guarantee there are things that happened that you don't know about and probably never will. Honestly you don't buy tickets or do things such as he is doing and expect nothing in return. At this point he either goes to counseling or you should leave. There are alot of honest, caring, loving guys. The problem is, as long as you are with this current one you are keeping yourself from finding one of them. You can't change your husband, he has to want to change and it's apparent he doesn't want to by the lying he is doing to you.
2sure Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Hi again! I have to admit, I dont know which would frustrate more: The text messaging young women who are not romantically interested in him OR the spending of cash he doesnt have to impress people and get attention he otherwise would not. Speaking from a little bit of experience, I know how insulted you must also feel. First, your husband is behaving like a jackass - and everyone including you know it. He isnt seen as anything more by anyone, and this probably embarasses you. Next, this little bit of attention he buys is apparently more satisfying (to him) than the attention he gets from you. Jeez. You sound intelligent, vibrant, and independent. I'd bet money your attractive too! Have you tried telling him what a Jackass you see him as, how desperate his behavior seems to others? How completely Unattractive he is becoming? If he so image conscious , he needs to take a long hard look.
Author stuckinoz Posted October 7, 2008 Author Posted October 7, 2008 Well, he isn't concerned at all about my embarrassment. He thinks that I'm the one with a problem here. He believes in Karma - & his version of Karma is to NEVER burn a bridge - no matter how mean & ugly someone is to you. Buy people things & they will be your BFF. Friends of ours have offered tid-bits of information about him. When I do tell him what they say, he thinks they are just trying to throw him under the bus, or that I'm making it up. And then when he does see that person again, he acts as if they never said anything bad about him. And, he will still bend over backwards for that person. At ALL costs. This is his version of Karma. I think it's bullS*&T to let people walk on you & use you the way they do him. I will say, I am somewhat disappointed in myself with this situation as it is. I'm having such a hard time breaking things off with this man, even though I know it's not good for me. I think part of it is financial. My job is a bit in question, the state of the economy...etc. Makes it very difficult to just pull the trigger - go back to my apartment & get as far away from him as I can. Maybe I'm just destined to be in martyrdom for the rest of my life:o
2sure Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Stuck - Well, it sounds a little like you have chosen a direction. But really...martyrdom?? I suppose your husbands actions could be considered nothing more than a major irritation, more a financial problem. I suppose you could reconcile yourself that his actions themselves are not your problem. But you cant do it because your a martyr. Thats just crap. If your emotional, financial etc reasons compel you to stay - then find a way to be happy. Get a hobby. Your husband has.
2sure Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 I was thinking of sending you a private message...but you dont seem to have that enabled.
Author stuckinoz Posted October 7, 2008 Author Posted October 7, 2008 No I guess I don't know how to "enable" that here - Suppose I shall be figuring that out. You are right though - I get where you're going with what you said. In otherwords "**** or get off the pot" I do need to either resign myself to the fact that this is how it's going to be......or stop my complaining.
2sure Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 LOL - No! You can still complain, thats what LS is for right? If I took my own advice more often, I would not complain so much myself...but I dont...so I do...and her I am.
Author stuckinoz Posted October 8, 2008 Author Posted October 8, 2008 Isn't it the truth! A lot of us give out very good advice. But if we thought for one second that our advice applied to OUR actual problems....Well, I suppose that this website wouldn't exist. As I have said before - IF I had a friend with my situation - I would tell her or him to run do not walk away from the person in their life that was causing them any kind of grief. But, I can't seem to do that for myself. And, I do....I have very good friends that have told me that I need to reconsider & go back to my apartment. But there are issues at home that still keep me there. Sad to say.
Federica Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 No I guess I don't know how to "enable" that here - Suppose I shall be figuring that out. PM facilities are not available to - or from - new members until they have achieved in excess of 100 posts. This is a measure to prevent spammers and pestering from those who actually might have ulterior motives..
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