Is This Considered "Cheating"?

[stuckinoz]

Is this considered cheating....or being unfaithful?

 

Married 28 years...2 grown children. We have had some issued & separated for a while - but now we are committed to making our marriage work -(or we said we both were committed to this)

Now this question....My husband, who frequents the "bar scene"....He has several waitresses'/bartenders phone numbers in his cell phone. Not only does he call them randomly but also text messages them thruout the day. I read one reply from one of these girls (they are 25 & under) & it said something along the lines of......."OMG my middle name is blankie I could wrap you up, JK, you rock." I can fill in the lines myself with what he probably typed to her (it was one of our first cold fall days) Anyway, He says these "girls" are his friends & there is nothing wrong with him having banter & or calling them. Any input from anyone out there?

[GreenX]

I don't consider that as cheating but flirting for sure.

 

Do you ever go with him to the bar? If so, how does he act around the 'regulars' (those who are in his phone)?

 

If it were me I'd tell him that I didn't think it was appropriate behavior for a married man to have these women texting him (or talking to him on the phone) and if he wanted to continue any form of relationship with them that you wanted to meet them and even be included. Then you can see for yourself how they act together. I'm sure you'd notice if he was acting strange or not (cover-up, etc.) so you can decide for yourself what's really going on.

[carhill]

but now we are committed to making our marriage work

 

Tell me about that, specifically. Have you broached this subject in MC? Have you ever had MC?

 

If you knew these women, you could then decide for yourself if contact was appropriate or not for you. But, since you don't, I think it's time you do. We always have friends over for dinner. Makes for great conversation and getting to know people

 

And, yes, I practice what I preach. I had a friend I had long had feelings for (longer than I've known my wife) and her boyfriend over so everyone got to know each other. I resolved those feelings and we remain friends and she and my wife get on fine, sometimes too fine

 

So, give it a try. He should have nothing to hide, regardless of what he's doing. Your marriage should be his first priority.

[Owl]

Its a clear violation of marital boundaries.

 

Tell him point blank...you will NOT accept that kind of behavior from him any longer.

 

Marriage counseling should be working to help the two of you work on your marriage...that "bar scene" is doing nothing but tearing it down.

 

Why should you accept this kind of behavior?????

[Ronni_W]

Is this considered cheating....or being unfaithful?

If it was behaviour that was making me uncomfortable, stressed and/or upset, I'd not even bother to try to put any more labels on it. And who cares what others might call it?

 

If you don't like it, time to have a chat with Hubby and remind that he is being presented with an excellent opportunity to demonstrate his commitment to you.

[stuckinoz]

I do go with him from time to time. (but during the separation, I didn't go in at all - about 6 months time) He does hug on these "girls" & smiles a big broad smile when he sees them....."Hello Sunshine" stuff like that. Tells them how cute they look...(boobs hanging out, stomach's showing etc.- they don't all dress this way, but one in particular does)

 

Also, I only know this information because I don't trust him still because of past issues & I check his phone, (he either erases everything from the day if he brings the phone in - or if he forgets - I go out to his truck & check after he is asleep.) I know it's inappropriate for me to check his phone but because of these past issues, when I confront him with stuff like this - he finds a way to throw it back on me or twist it around like I don't know what I'm talking about. So, I have learned to have FACTS instead of going with "instinct" when it comes to things like this.

Yes, we do still have issues to work thru- I know that - & so does he. The trust may come back - someday, but while he is doing this - it won't be coming back anytime soon. And, one more thing, he can't go one day without going into this particular bar.

It's not that I'm insecure about these young girls. They are all, for the most part dumber than boxes of rocks.....but I feel like if a 48 year old man is going to work on his marriage - why "flirt, text, call, other girls thruout the day"? EGO?

[GreenX]

What sort of problems were you having before that made you separate? Not being nosey just trying to understand your background more and his behavior.

 

When he stops at this particular bar, is he going there to meet with buddies or is he stopping in for a few drinks whilst chatting with these girls?

 

I would definitely put my foot down now though and explain to him that this talk with the girls needs to stop completely if he is still interested in repairing your marriage from past issues. Are you both in MC?

[Moose]

How would your husband react if you had men texting you?

 

Ever ask him?

 

It's totally unacceptable....shoot, I won't even get in an elevator with another woman if we would be alone. I don't give rides to women if we are the only 2 in the vehicle. This has caused some embarrassing moments professionally when I refuse to do so....

 

Your husband is placing himself into a situation that could/is affecting the marriage.....

[Shygirl15]

A 48yo married man with lady friends aged 25 and under? Please. Huge red flag. Taking into account all other details you have mentioned about him, he's definitely on his way to cheat, if he hasn't done so already..

[carhill]

Curiously, does H go to the bar to hang out with his male friends? If not, why not just stock the bar at home and he can unwind there? I'm H's age and, yeah, I enjoy it when my wife and I go out to socialize at clubs/bars, etc, but I don't see any good reason why I would go places like that alone, save for meeting up with a group of male friends.

 

I'll be honest. Your H likes the ego feed he gets from these young women flirting with him and titillating him with their nubile bodies. It's perfectly normal. He had/has to make the cognitive choice to prioritize his marriage above his base instincts. That's part of being an evolved human being.

 

Tell me, would he care if you left tomorrow? His actions (obviously we don't know the whole story) tell me it doesn't really matter to him. Happy to be wrong

[bish]

Is this considered cheating....or being unfaithful?

 

Married 28 years...2 grown children. We have had some issued & separated for a while - but now we are committed to making our marriage work -(or we said we both were committed to this)

Now this question....My husband, who frequents the "bar scene"....He has several waitresses'/bartenders phone numbers in his cell phone. Not only does he call them randomly but also text messages them thruout the day. I read one reply from one of these girls (they are 25 & under) & it said something along the lines of......."OMG my middle name is blankie I could wrap you up, JK, you rock." I can fill in the lines myself with what he probably typed to her (it was one of our first cold fall days) Anyway, He says these "girls" are his friends & there is nothing wrong with him having banter & or calling them. Any input from anyone out there?

 

Your husband is a cheating dog and a jackass. Plain and simple.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is this considered cheating....or being unfaithful?

To me, there's a fairly easy standard to apply. And that is, would your husband do the same thing if you were standing right there? With you present, would he be having a conversation with this young lady that ended with "my middle name is blankie I could wrap you up"?

 

If the answer is no, then it's cheating...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sure]

Yes, its his EGO. You may have other problems in your marriage, but this kind of thing almost always seems to be about ego.

 

I realize of course that a 48 yo man may be attractive to a very few 20-25 yo women. But your husband does not sound like the successful, father figureish, financially independent man so many women can be attracted to. He goes to this bar on a DAILY basis. Chances are very good they see him for what he is: a lonely middle aged man trying to fit into a younger crowd, who may tip - if not well, then at least daily. Take some comfort in the fact that these women work there - they are being paid. He is the only daily volunteer. It is not unusual for a bar regular to feel like one of the crowd or family of employees . However, they probably see him in a different light.

 

Anything your H does that makes you uncomfortable is wrong. It is OK that you check his phone - I would tell him since he apparently needs to be monitored. I would also point out all of the above described and tell him he is making a complete jackass of himself. I would add that this desperateness to fit in makes him unattractive in your eyes. He is 48 years old. Find another hobby.

 

This is just me, and if you are intent on putting a stop to this while working on other issues - I would go to the bar, speak to the girls and apologize for my husbands leach like behavior and ask them not to particpate. All with a smile and a wink.

 

Sounds like you may may have bigger fish to fry.

[stuckinoz]

As I read all of these posts - I can't help but chuckle. One, because these 'girls' think he is a pretty great guy. He tips VERY well. I know that's part of why they think he's great. And the reality of it is He really IS a nice man -to other people - But most girls in that age group are looking for sugar daddies......So, maybe they would think he fits the bill. And 2ndly - I know I'll get lots of responses on this little addition - Our daughter also works there.--- I don't think they say to her that her dad is texting them....I'd hope they could be a little descrete in that area.

We have been in MC....but quit when I moved back home (yes, I moved out for a while) I was told that things were better - or would be. I went home mostly for financial reasons....Neither of us is "estatically happy" about being back together. It's just more convenient. He gets to be in "Do as you please land" during the day & has a wife to come home to in the evenings.....

And in answer to your question "What would he say If I did that" I can tell you he would not care ONE BIT....Not one bit. I guess I bounce this question off of you because he has always played head games with me & even now I am letting him do it again. He twists & turns things so that it makes me look like I"m crazy. I always second guess my decisions. Another reason why I left & came back.........

[stuckinoz]

Oh & answering the other question - Yes he does go there to meet his buddies - Whom all but a very few are married...the rest are single. And, NO I doubt very much that these other married men have these girlie's phone numbers in their cell phone.

[Owl]

It doesn't matter!!!!

 

What he's doing hurts YOU...violates YOUR boundaries.

 

What his buddies do, what he thinks is ok...quite frankly is IRRELEVENT.

 

The bottom line is that what he's doing isn't acceptable to YOU! (nor would it be for the vast majority of people...but again, that doesn't matter)

 

Make it crystal clear to him how much it hurts you. Make it clear that you're no longer going to accept it. Tell him it ends now, or else... you fill in the rest of that statement...and the trick is...MEAN IT!!!!

 

If you sit back and accept this behavior, you know full well its only a matter of time before his actions escalate into something more. You'd be a fool to stand by and wait for that to happen.

 

Make sense?

[stuckinoz]

Well it's good to know that I'm not the crazy one. Guess now, IF I decide to confront him on this......which he will deny it & get ugly about........How far am I willing to go with taking my stand on this particular issue. Do I go back to my apartment & try to make it alone? or....stay put & put up with this.

I don't think he has much compassion in this department. Even in MC he would say "They are my friends, I'm not going to abandon my friends." (when I asked for him to NOT text & to NOT be in the bar every day)....

[Owl]

So do you really want to be married to someone who clearly places his friendships in a much higher priority than he does his marriage?

 

His marriage should be his highest priority relationship...but clearly its not.

 

Why do you want to be married to this guy??? I'm not tracking...

[2sure]

If he is telling you in no uncertain terms that he not only feels justified in his behavior but that he will not stop it (even if it is just because it bothers you) -

 

Then you have to decide if you want to live with it. He is going to continue to make you think you are the crazy one (This is called Gaslighting). Possibly, just accepting that he is wrong and you are right is enough for you? But it really doesnt sound like he has any desire to change his behavior, and in fact refuses to do so.

[stuckinoz]

OMG - Gaslighting......I didn't even know such a thing existed. I am reading about it & this is SO what he's done all these years. No wonder I can't make sound judgement decisions & stick with them. I always question if I'm right or not. OMG.....I cannot believe that there is a name for this behavior.

Thank you - I will keep reading about this........

I do love him -on some level - but spending 28 years with someone will do that. As to staying married to him.....In my heart I know that other men can't be like this (he tells me all men are like this - lie to their wives, etc.)

Guess I need to keep reading about this - & figure out how to stand up to him. THANK YOU 2sure:)

[carhill]

In my heart I know that other men can't be like this (he tells me all men are like this - lie to their wives, etc.)

 

I've heard this refrain before. Get out. That's cr@p he's talkin'.... it's not that other men are "better" but rather you deserve better.

 

Someone I love very much dealt with this kind of gaslighting and disrespectful behavior for most of her adult life and it's made her into a hollow shell of what she once was. Really disheartening. Don't let that happen to you.

 

What do you think he'd do if you left?

[Lizzie60]

When I read your posts.. I definitely think it's EGO...

 

These girls are probably 'using' your H for money, rides, free drinks.. etc... and he's too stupid to see that.. he thinks they like him.. see this is the type of guy I've seen when I was younger and going to bars... they are usually slightly 'overweight'.. not that attractive.. kinda 'loserish' type.. sometimes 'loud' and 'ignorant'... and people usually tend to take advantage of these guys.. they're usually not too intelligent.. they just like the attention.. even if it costs them a lot of money..

 

I'm not saying your H is like that.. but from what I read.. he pretty much fits that description...

 

My advice.. kick him out.. you don't need a 'loser' who needs constant validation from young girls... have you checked your bank account?

[stuckinoz]

What do you think he'd do if you left?

 

I did leave - for about 6 months time. The first part of the separation was hell for me. Yet, he was out every night partying it up with these 'girls'. Our kids did tell me during that time that they were worried about their dad...& when I would pass that on to him, he would just roll his eyes & say "I'm fine". After a few months he must have gotten tired of that lifestyle & we began to talk to try to work things out. He suggested MC...so we did. When I asked him "what do you tell our friends about this" he would answer "Oh, I tell them we are getting back together - it's all going to be fine" (he saw our group of friends more than I did - Guess that's the down side to being the one that does the leaving in a relationship) At that point I put my "separated" life on hold....I didn't go out, I didn't date, I barely left my apartment except for work, family things, or to see him.

 

So, as for bank accounts- Mine is separate now anyway. I know that he is constantly overdrawn in his, although he makes more than enough money to pay the mortgage & the bills for the house.

 

I have read up on "Gaslighting" & he definitely does this to me - I am having trouble finding anything to read online that makes suggestions on how to get out from this kind of "control" any suggestions.

I know that I should leave & go back to my apartment, (I've called them & it is still available if I want to re-sign my lease) but I also know that I have to approach the subject with somewhat care.....because if I don't he will most definitely make me feel bad again & I will be "guilted" into staying.

[2sure]

Like you, when I read about Gaslighting, it was like a revelation to me. My husband still does not realize that the gaslighting is what hurt the most. I read about it and like you - found nothing in the way of how to deal with it. Recognizing it yourself seems to be the most helpful. Arguing facts with someone who is gaslighting you is an excercise in frustration. I stopped stating facts to my husband as questions - and that helped.

[stuckinoz]

I think that if I told my husband even minimal information about gaslighting he'd laugh me into next month. He claims to never understand things like that & that they are stupid. And, yes, he tells me so to my face.

If I read anything that's analytical ~ he becomes agitated with me.

 

I'm curious - I stopped stating facts to my husband as questions - and that helped. - I"m not sure I follow that

 

I have confronted him about the content of the text messages & he has agreed that they are probably "out of line" -- & his answer to it is "I'll try to CUT BACK"....that's the best answer I can get right now.

Oh well....