caught between two guys

[BigBrew]

Well this might get long - so sorry in advance but I'll try to sum it all up.

 

Basically I'm torn.

 

I have been friends with a guy for about 14 years now, and we will call him Dan. Dan and I have been best buds since the teenage years- well his not mine. I'm 4 years older. I'm in my 30's now and he's in his late 20's. Dan at the age of 20 went off and married a girl from a country that is prodominatly muslim. But the marriage has never really been a marriage. They haven't been together sexually in nearly 10 years. She has had a boyfriend for the last 4, and they have lived seperately for the last year. I mean it is quintesentially the married too young blah blah story.

 

So that is the friend. Now my boyfriend... who I'll call Steve.

We've had an LDR for 6 years now, and I'm basically ok with it. But the last few month things have been dwindling down. Its not the first time we've gone on a "break" from one another. It happends. I do love him, at least I think I do.

 

Now I look at it like this I'm blessed to have two completely wonderful men in my life who have showed me a great many of things I never thought myself capable of... but I really don't know what to do because... well as you guessed by now, I think I'm starting to have feelings for Dan.

 

Over the last few months he has constantly mentioned that he wants us to get married and i kind of just push it off because well... I know he's still dealing with his marriage. And before you all ask why doesn't he get divorced. He wants to wait until she is legal - for those in america you know what I mean. I clearly understand why so I don't knock it. She can't go home especially after having been maried to an american so I get he wants to make sure she is safe. So do I, and I think this admirable no matter what.

 

At anyrate, this past weekend Dan and I went on a little mini road-trip. Now Steve knows about the trip and knows who I went with etc. I have never told him of any advances by Dan, and for the first time ever, he made a comment to me about not getting carried away while I was gone. Normally Steve is quite ambilivant toward my male friends. ( as I have a whole slew of them) So he's use to me going off and trekking through the wilderness with the boys, nothing new. But this time was different.

 

So this weekend, Dan and i start out on our road trip and he begins to ask me of my plans with Steve for the future, and I tell him I'm not sure what the deal is. Sometimes I'm more than happy other times- well like the saying goes I could've had a V-8... you know. Everyone tells me is normal and that the way things are when you get settled in a relationship and it becomes comfortable.

Dan then says if you wanted to marry him or be with him you would have done it already so why are you prolonging the enevitable. I shrug it off and don't think about it. So we get to where we're going camping at, and spend the next day, just having fun etc. Normal.

So sunday morning i wake up and find him, well having some self-relations-- next to me in the tent. At first I dismiss and say well- boys do things in their sleep and let it go. I get up go to the bathroom, come back and He asks me if I'm up up for the morning. I said pretty much. Now mind you we are having this conversation, while he's still stoking the pole. And I ask him he wants to sleep a little longer. He said no I'm awake. I said ok, then go back out the tent. More or less to give myself a minute to recover and not laugh-and then ask what the hell is going on.

 

So few minutes later, I yell to him that I'm going to go for a swim in the lake, and I'll see him when he gets up. about an hour later, he's up doing whatever. we get dressed start our days hike, and while we're walking, he asks if i slept well, and I say never better, how's he sleep, and he says he couldn't because he was completely sexually frustrated. I say well that is too bad, and promptly change the subject. 3 hours later he moves back on to this topic, and I change the subject. Mostly because i really just don't know how to respond.

 

The next day we set out back home, nothings uncomfortable. just same old same playful banter. Then we get to my house and I'm saying good bye and he kisses me. Not like a normal kiss..goodbye peck on the lips. I smiled and said okay well talk to you later.

 

We go our own ways, tuesday comes along and first thing tuesday morning -- Both Steve and Dan IM simultaneously. I'm sitting trying to digest all this. Dan's IM - " I think we should get married"

Steve's -- was a little more subdued--our typical banter about what happend over the weekend.

 

So here is the thing, long ago if Dan hadn't married this girl I'm sure we'd probably ended up together. All our friends think we're already like an old married couple to begin with. Over the years - with other boy friends, my bosses have even made comments, when ever they see me with Dan, one said I think your with the wrong guy (in relation to my Ex). My mother adores Dan, thinks he's sexy as hell. LOL - I think he's a complete dork... but a cutie pie too. But I think they all just don't want to root for Steve because it would cause me to have to move to Scottland.

 

I have a lot in common with both. Steve has taught me to love like no one i have ever know before. And Dan is that person who is just like my stength - you know.. the guy you always feel safe with no matter what.

 

So I am confused. What do I do?

[Nemo]

What do I do?

Pick one. Or you could keep both, but it might be a lot of work.

[imagine]

End one before you start another. You are a big girl now (no offense intended), make a mature decision.

 

LDR's are not usually viable. Why not set the poor Steve free so that HE does not feel obligated to hold on?

 

As for married Dan, he is still married and clearly is ambivalent to that institution. Are you SURE you want to be "married" to Dan?

[Ronni_W]

So I am confused. What do I do?

I'd vote 'pick neither' -- right now.

 

Steve doesn't sound like you want him, anyway. That is, you want him cos you have him, and maybe he's better than nothing, and maybe he's taught you a lot about love. But it really doesn't sound like you have any major leanings towards him. (Unless it is in there somewhere, and I'm just not reading deep enough between the lines.)

 

Then ask Dan to PLEASE NOT mention marriage again until he is free to actually get married. At which point, you can decide if you want to date him and go through the whole "courting process" during which time you'll BOTH decide if it is married-to-each-other that you want.

 

Within limits of current realities, I just don't think Dan or you ought to try to figure out if there is "love and marriage" available. How can either of you know if it is genuinely desired...or just an easy way out of the 'pickles' your individual decisions have put you in?

You owe it to the Self and to the other, to at least TRY to fall in true love before just going ahead and falling into marriage, yes?

[BigBrew]

Ok- not sure what happend- but my post disappeared so - I'm retying if it appears twice.

Sorry:(

 

At anyrate, I said I first like to clear it up for those who have issue with Dan being married. His marriage is on paper only, and has been for a number of years. His wife, has her own life, she lives in her own apartment, and has a boyfriend. So it isn't like he's cheating- I often encourage him to go out and meet new people because she did 5 years ago- and he needs to start living again. i think is staying in their "marraige" is just for her benifit, she is eleible to take her citizenship test in January. After that he's filing for divorce. So its completely over- dead and over people.

 

Now, Ronni- I do care deeply for Steve, we've been in our relationship for 6 years. And it hasn't been easy with the cross-atlantic boundaries of it all. As of last year I started on working on tying up my career and ends here - i need to sell my house etc... in order to move to Scottland. I just received two job offers last week from companies there. And so this whole, am I relaly sure thing comes at the most in opportune time. And i recognize it might just be my cold feet. Thinking I've made all these changes in my life- he's made none. And perhaps i look at it like I'm completely comfortable here in my little world. But being comfortable in my eye's view is never a reason for sitting back and doing nothing. So I struggle with my own issues of staying put- because life for the most part is ok here. Or moving on and going for the adventure. -- and by adventure I mean, the living in some place new, the excitment of becoming something new and different. Steve has asked me to marry him, he asked a few months ago. He's a patient man I grant you this, but patient and impatient at the same time. He knows I have several things to clear up here first, so there was never a rush to head to the alter. But its not like i expect him to wait for ever, especially not while i have one last hoo-raa per se with my bff. you know.

 

I get all that. BELIEVE ME. But I am struggling because I suppose deep down I have always on some level had feelings for Dan, and now there at the surface, I kind of don't know what to do about it.

[theobserver]

Well none of us can really tell you what to do.

However as you said you and Steve have had a decent long relationship we're all grown ups here a real relationship is hard it will have many downs as well as ups. If it goes too easy something is wrong this is the way of our chaotic universe.

 

6 years is absolutely nothing to sneeze at and from things you've mentioned there's nothing you've said that really warrants really breaking up, the only issue is you've both been forced (yourself and steve) to have breaks due to being from different countries but you've both worked through it and soon I imagine as planned you'll be living in scotland as a perminent resident to work and be with Steve finally with no breaks because of temp visas look in your heart do you love this man are you in love with him?

 

Why can you not say yes to marriage there's no reason you couldn't of said yes and then go on a loooooong engangement route which many people do.

Sorry but when a woman can't say yes right there and then I'd be worried and I think he is worrying too that something is up and there is something up and that is Dan.

 

However back to your friends and family absolutely they do not want you to leave I have seen my wife and her friends all personally sabotage relationships so their friends do not have to move because it breaks everyones routine. Sometimes there comments can be nothing to do with your happiness but to keep stability for themselves I've had to snap my wife out of this behaviour.

 

Think of it this way the 2 girlfriends that grew up in the same town, same school were best friends promised to stay and do everything together. Then one day one of them decides to move to the city. The other is silently devastated feeling the friend is leaving them behind progressing without the other seeing the big wild world. Sometimes the friend will cheer on for their buddy othertimes they will do anything to keep them at bay.

 

 

Ok lets get to Dan , so you were childhood friends, you still hang out everyone thinks your perfect for eachother I'm really iffy about people like this. I never want to be with someone everyone else thinks is perfect for me nor do I like to hear it over and over. Eventually all the reasons why you would never of hooked up with a friend become the reason you do want them through minor social pressure.

I'm sure these people would of said the same about Steve if he was able to be around more but you know why he can't personally you should of been setting people straight that "well he's just a friend steve is my boyfriend"

 

I'm sure Dan is a nice guy and I can understand his predicament and why he's remained married due to your explanation it's comendable he's not wanting to break up his ex wifes new relationship and allowing her to remain married to him until her citizenship test etc (though I'm sure this is a grey area for some people on if he shoudl even be allowing her to do this!)

but you got to look past that. The incident in the tent, is clearly crossing the line. I don't find it funny at all I find it kind of gross that he has no self control think about this in the long term.

 

He's your friend. It's one thing to try and win you over, it's another to be jerking off while he thinks your sleeping, and you basically allow it. You trusted him and your boyfriend somewhat trusted in you and him that this is platonic and you've allowed him to act this way. I get sexually frustrated watching a movie in a cinema it doesn't mean I whip it out and get to business.

 

Sit down and really think.

You don't have to Marry Steve ever not everyone is comfortable doing it but you should be deciding if you want to live the rest of your life with this man , have his children etc etc does he make you happy does he do everything in his power (because of distance) to show you love. He's clearly giving you trust (and you'v kind of broken it) so far it seems you're kind of toying with him but prove me wrong.

 

Is Dan the love of your life or is this a case of what if and he just happens to be around a lot to influence this day dream? You only live once but will you give up 6 years for this dream? You should know the good about Dan but while you might not know all the bad you must have seen it. Can you deal with the negative side of Dan?

 

When you're in a relationship for a long time and things get comfortable and throw in the fact you've been long distance for some of it you find yourself looking for any excuse to get out, are you ready to settle, feeling you've missed out? Think it over and hell maybe even TALK TO STEVE about this. For god sakes don't talk to Dan about all of this he's the last person you should be talking to about this now since you know his intentions are to get in your pants. All I'm saying is Steve is your boyfriend, after you've had a think tell him how you feel and let's see what type of response he can give to reassure you that you're both meant for eachother.

[BigBrew]

theobserver- thank you. your post actually made a lot of sense.

 

Yes Steve has done all with his power to make me happy, when he's around or not around. He's a great guy. And yes I can see us having a future together. That hasn't been the issue. My reluctancy stemms from being a chicken **** about marriage in general. I see far too many fail and for far too many reason and I don't want to be one of those people. Steve has two sons from his previous marriage he's been divorced 10 years, and is very well grounded etc. So I get worried that one, I will never be that great of a step mother, especially to teenage boys. And then secondly, that I will be living so far away from all that I know- with a new family of people I don't know who might not like me. Well they like me so far... but like you say our time is limited. He and the boys were here for the summer and left in late july, and all went well.

 

So when you asked why i didn't respond right away with a yes, well there were several reasons as to why. That at the time had nothing to do with Dan. He wasn't a factor in my wanting time to consider all that I needed to. Honestly, it has more to do with me then anything, and the fact that i'm skittish.

 

And Yes I've been thinking about telling him all that went on last weekend. He did ask, and i said all went well and left it at that. He does trust me and so far I have given him no reason not to. Absolutly nothing transpired between Dan and I other than that conversation. And that was it. So I have to gage wether or not this is something i need to even tell him. But we have talked through these things in the past. About 2 years ago we broke up for a few weeks because he wanted to see other people. i was fine with that. I understood then, that well things aren't always easy and sometimes you just need a break... especially from an LDR. But well we smotth things out and its been all good every since. Our relationship isn't easy as we both work for different gov't. He's in the military I've gone through 3 different deployments between Kuwait, Iraq, and Afganistan. When He arrived back from his last deployment to AFG, he asked me to marry him. So a calmination of looking at things like, okay are you just experiencing this urge because you had a semi near death experience, and you are tired of this going back and forth.

Hell I get tired of it too. So I kept thinking is it me you want to marry or just the notion of wanting to be married again to not go through that alone.

 

And then Last week this thing with Dan happend, and the following friday - I posted on here because, Steve sent me a link of a place where he wants to get married. And I am overwhelmed. Because of everything. moving, finding work there, knowing the new world that i'll be thrusted into- military life etc... etc.. especially the military life, being a step parent. And well not a step parent because he has full custody of his sons. They go to boarding school while he's away. And that changes everything.

Perhaps its all just too much change at once.

 

thanks everyone for letting me vent this all out- i am getting some clarity on the situation as i listen.

observes you are absolutly right he and i need to have a big talk about all this.

 

BB

[Spectre]

So you're with one guy long distance, yet you're going on road trips and sleeping in the same tent with another man, especially a man you have/had feelings for. Really, you should of been in separate tents.

 

Yeah, it sure sounds like you care about this Steve guy. Doesn't matter if he's ok with it, people in relationships flat out shouldn't be acting that way, not with guys they know are into them and that you're into yourself.

 

Yet if this Dan guy loved you, he wouldn't of married someone, "too young to get married" or not, he simply would not of gone through with it.

 

End it with Steve, and then ask Dan if he wants to be with the type of chick who goes on road trips and sleeps in tents with other men whilst having a bf.

 

Also, you want the type of scumbag who starts jerking off next to you in a tent, and then continues to do so while talking to you, knowing full well you're in a relationship?

 

Really, the guys a grade A scumbag, dump steve before u end up banging this creepy bastard behind his back. I would feel horrible if my gf cheated on me, but even more-so if it was with some creepy bastard like this. The fact that you weren't incredibly turned off by that is an entirely different issue.

[bish]

Well this might get long - so sorry in advance but I'll try to sum it all up.

 

Basically I'm torn.

 

I have been friends with a guy for about 14 years now, and we will call him Dan. Dan and I have been best buds since the teenage years- well his not mine. I'm 4 years older. I'm in my 30's now and he's in his late 20's. Dan at the age of 20 went off and married a girl from a country that is prodominatly muslim. But the marriage has never really been a marriage. They haven't been together sexually in nearly 10 years. She has had a boyfriend for the last 4, and they have lived seperately for the last year. I mean it is quintesentially the married too young blah blah story.

 

So that is the friend. Now my boyfriend... who I'll call Steve.

We've had an LDR for 6 years now, and I'm basically ok with it. But the last few month things have been dwindling down. Its not the first time we've gone on a "break" from one another. It happends. I do love him, at least I think I do.

 

Now I look at it like this I'm blessed to have two completely wonderful men in my life who have showed me a great many of things I never thought myself capable of

 

 

Including being unfair to each one. You may be blessed with them, but neither one of them is blessed if you are playing them the way you are. However I guess you aren't playing Dan since he knows you have a relationship with Steve.

 

So Steve is the only one being played.

 

 

 

... but I really don't know what to do because... well as you guessed by now, I think I'm starting to have feelings for Dan.

 

 

Then let Steve go and hook up with Dan. Quit holding Steve on a back burner for your own selfish "needs".

 

 

At anyrate, this past weekend Dan and I went on a little mini road-trip. Now Steve knows about the trip and knows who I went with etc. I have never told him of any advances by Dan, and for the first time ever, he made a comment to me about not getting carried away while I was gone. Normally Steve is quite ambilivant toward my male friends.

 

Obviously Steve is a fool and you are playing him as such. Steve needs to wake up.

 

Or better yet, you could do the decent thing and come clean that you want Dan and let Steve make up his mind what to do with his life and not be at the mercy of someone who is playing 2 guys...well, one anyway.

 

 

So this weekend, Dan and i start out on our road trip and he begins to ask me of my plans with Steve for the future, and I tell him I'm not sure what the deal is. Sometimes I'm more than happy other times- well like the saying goes I could've had a V-8... you know.

 

If thats the way you feel, then break it off completely with Steve. He doesn't deserve to be with someone who is going to always wonder if the grass is greener elsewhere.

 

Do the decent thing and let Steve go.

 

 

So few minutes later, I yell to him that I'm going to go for a swim in the lake, and I'll see him when he gets up. about an hour later, he's up doing whatever. we get dressed start our days hike, and while we're walking, he asks if i slept well, and I say never better, how's he sleep, and he says he couldn't because he was completely sexually frustrated.

 

Oh gee....that was subtle:rolleyes:

 

 

I have a lot in common with both. Steve has taught me to love like no one i have ever know before. And Dan is that person who is just like my stength - you know.. the guy you always feel safe with no matter what.

 

So I am confused. What do I do?

 

Break up with Steve, he doesn't deserve this.

[nicki]

Oh, yes, he is creepy. It's one thing to tenderly profess one's undying love, and quite another to simply try to bang you.

 

He was completely disrepectful to you, and it suggests a selfish man.

 

Do you think that this whole thing is like an affair? That if you were with Dan, you would want to keep good old Steve around?

 

And, do you think that this whole attraction with Dan would fade if you two were in an actual relationship? Affairs are fun because they aren't based on anything real....it's all about excitement and no responsibility.

 

I'd bet if you just met Steve, you could feel like that about him, too.

 

I might be off base here. It's just that I've been in LDRs. They are very difficult and don't meet your emotional needs without a lot of work...and progression needs to happen.

 

Do you think it's maybe time to progress your relationship with Steve or end it?

 

Just don't confuse this Dan guy with some perfect hero who will make your life perfect. You wouldn't be vulnerable to him without some unmet needs you already have.

 

I'd consider the fact that you are considering getting involved with Dan to be a real gift that shows you that you need more.....But do you need Dan?

 

What does Dan represent to you? What could he bring to the table that Steve doesn't? What would be different? Could you ask Steve for those things? Do you still love Steve and simply want things to be different?

 

Only you can answer these things.

[nicki]

Oh, and please don't sleep with Dan until you cut Steve loose. It's the right thing to do.

 

But, I don't have much respect for a man who wouldn't want a woman to do that before she would sleep with him.

[BigBrew]

I didn't think what Dan did was creepy- I actually felt bad for the poor guy. I don't think he's a creep- I think he might just be getting deperate.

How many people could last that long in a 10 year sex-less marriage and not be a little well desperate.

I won't start anything with him because I know he is. And that desperation to feel - something, to feel human and just be with someone can drive people to do crazy and stupid things.

 

As for Steve, fellas thank you all for being so concerned with Steve and his feelings, etc. I love Steve and all but I know he is no saint either. So please do not think I'm at all feeling guilty or should feel guilty for absently sitting by while my friend jerked off near by. I did not help him. I did not kiss him. I didn't do anything. but politely avoid the issue. And I'm still in avoid mode as far as Dan is concerned. I spoke with Steve about everything this morning. He was upset a little at first, but we had a long talk about things. He thinks that I did the right thing by telling him, and he thinks that if it going to stress my friendship out that I have to talk to Dan about his behavior- and that if I don't then he will.

We firmed up our thanksgiving plans for his visit with the kids. I am only confused because I just know that i do have some underlying feelings.

I mean damn, has no one one here ever had feelings for a friend and been in a realtionship and not know what to do?

Thats just where I am. I look at things with steve like we're damn near married just with out the piece of paper. We have a stable enough relationship that we can talk about these things. I only felt uncomfortable about because its not like this is a complete stranger.

I think it were a complete stranger - and I was like Babe I'm kind of feeling this dude, He'd probably like well your human it happens. Cuz he tells me when he's seen some girl that he thinks is totally hot and blah blah... I'm secure enough to be me and know that if he decides to go after what ever chick he's gotten into his mind... that he'll either stay gone or come back. either way the one time he decided that was what he wanted to do- he knew I wasn't going to wait around, sitting on my hands like oh me what ever will i do with out you. Hell no.

I was a whole and complete person before, and I am with or without him. We're pretty strong personalities- no steve will not wilt because I've told him that I have thoughts about another man. He might get mad- he might even be jealous. I'll find out tomorrow. It usually takes him a day to come up with some bull-shiit when he's really mad.

So if he's really upset about, i'll either not hear from him, or get a lengthy e-mail around 2 am. Other than that if its business as usual, then I'm not going to worry about it.

 

thanks for the advice peoples. appraciate it!!

[Spectre]

Well yeah, the fact that you don't think it's creepy that this guy just started to jerk off in front of you speaks volumes..it kinda tells me how this story is going to end. You're already trying to make excuses for the guy.

 

Don't blame it on desperation, there are plenty of desperate men out there who don't act that way. Hate to break it to you but randomly starting to jerk off in front of you shows a lack of respect for you as a person and for your relationship. Not to mention yeah..it is quite creepy.

 

Anyways the bottom line is, if you have genuine feelings for this Dan guy, you shouldn't be with someone else. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

If you think you truly want Steve, then you need to get this Dan guy out of your life. Hell, you should get him out of your life either way, I'm sure you might like him, but the way he acts is just well, questionable.

[AAlike]

to me it seems like your best bet is to ditch both of them.

 

it's pretty clear that your LDR with Steve is not doing it for you (which, honestly, is not that uncommon...some people can get what they need from LDR's, but I think that quite a few cannot). so you probably need to move on from that - it may seem hard, but as others have said, just the fact that you're entertaining these thoughts means that you need to break it off, or at least tell Steve that you need to see other people while you make up your mind. It'd be one thing to be deciding between two guys when you're single, it's another thing to be deciding between two guys when you're supposed to be in a relationship with one of them!

 

so if we've established that you need to break it off with Steve, then the question is, do you want to get involved with Dan? well, it seems that he's got quite a bit of baggage, and I can't imagine that you'd be happy taking that on in light of your new found freedom.

[bish]

Well yeah, the fact that you don't think it's creepy that this guy just started to jerk off in front of you speaks volumes..it kinda tells me how this story is going to end. You're already trying to make excuses for the guy.

 

Exactly...........