Damned if I do, damned if I don't!

[Ariadne]

Aridane, how does it work then? You do the asking and taking them out?

 

No, if I notice some guy may be interested and I like him, I just start throwing him crumbs. If he picks up, he is in, and I'll up the ante.

 

I don't like some guy to start chasing me.

 

I've had guys do all that "list" you mentioned and I may go out with them just for a good time, maybe even have sex, but see them just like a piece of meat.

 

At least that's how it works for me, a guy doing the chasing is a "huge" turn-off.

[vonerik012]

So, I hadn't heard from the guy I wasn't all that into (Dave) in almost a week. I got home from a business trip last night and was exhausted so I stayed in. I became incredibly bored, so I texted him hello. He responded immediately, and said he was surprised to hear from me. Why? He said, "Well, I figured if you were into me, you'd call me. I didn't want to push the issue."

 

By Dave's rules, if a girl is into a guy, SHE contacts HIM.

 

Okay.

 

On the other hand, certain guys - such as the text dumper, or other guys who I AM/WAS into - don't want to be called. They want to have the upper hand.

 

By TD's rules, if a guy is into a girl, HE calls HER. If she preempts this act by calling him first, he's turned off.

 

In other words, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

 

First of all you are once again twisting.. Calling after the first date, is not the same as showing some effort..

 

And secondly, I guess the other 2 guys you know in real life also agree with me. Unless you switched the question to them also, and later said "should the girl show some effort"

[vonerik012]

No, if I notice some guy may be interested and I like him, I just start throwing him crumbs. If he picks up, he is in, and I'll up the ante.

 

I don't like some guy to start chasing me.

 

I've had guys do all that "list" you mentioned and I may go out with them just for a good time, maybe even have sex, but see them just like a piece of meat.

 

At least that's how it works for me, a guy doing the chasing is a "huge" turn-off.

 

 

Aridane who is talking about the man chasing? Only you...

 

Do you ask him out and take him out? Or does he do that?

 

Now just asking a girl out is a turn off and implies you are chasing?

[Star Gazer]

First of all you are once again twisting.. Calling after the first date, is not the same as showing some effort..

 

And secondly, I guess the other 2 guys you know in real life also agree with me. Unless you switched the question to them also, and later said "should the girl show some effort"

 

Calling after the first date IS showing some effort. Calling after the first date IS showing interest. Not sure why you'd think otherwise.

 

The two guys are the alcoholic and the text dumper. Along with you, these three examples are hardly credible sources.

 

Again, if you're here just to argue, leave. I've warned you twice now. I will report you.

[Tomcat33]

Why not? What's the harm in a phone call? And what's "all that effort into pursuing" that you're referring to? One way to know if he's not interested IS to call him. If he doesn't respond, he either (1) is easily turned off, which is not okay by me, or (2) isn't interested. Either way, I know.

 

Even if a guy is pursuing you, you can never be certain WHY he's interested in you and what his real intentions are. Nothing's ever certain. So why not just go with what feels right? To me, it feels right to contact someone I'm interested in.

 

 

WEll wait wait what are we talking about here then I am confused as to what you mean by pursue them?

 

When say call a guy do you mean you meet a guy out and then you call him to invite him out on a date?

 

I agree nothing IS certain, but when a woman does all the chasing you have even less certainty he is not just there for the thrill of being chased.

[vonerik012]

LOL.. Then why do you keep bringing me back into the thread by calling me out??????????

 

If you want to call guys after the first date because they wont call you then go ahead... It wont help.

[Star Gazer]

Now just asking a girl out is a turn off and implies you are chasing?

 

You're hilarious.

 

In your eyes, if a woman simply calls a man one time after a date, she's considered to be chasing and pursuing him.

 

However, if a man asks a woman out, you're suggesting he is NOT chasing or pursuing her?

 

[vonerik012]

It's not chasing in either case. It is pursuing. I was not even referring to you, I was referring to Aridane who keeps saying men who chase are a turn off.

[Star Gazer]

WEll wait wait what are we talking about here then I am confused as to what you mean by pursue them?

 

When say call a guy do you mean you meet a guy out and then you call him to invite him out on a date?

 

I'm not sure it matters, but yes.

 

Re-read Djhall's post. That's how I conduct myself, and that's how I expect the men I date to behave as well. In moderation. I don't chase that which doesn't want to be caught. I test the waters and run with it if I get a positive response. If not, no biggie.

[Star Gazer]

It's not chasing in either case. It is pursuing. I was not even referring to you, I was referring to Aridane who keeps saying men who chase are a turn off.

 

Chasing and pursuing are synonymous as far as I'm concerned.

[Ariadne]

Aridane who is talking about the man chasing? Only you...

 

Do you ask him out and take him out? Or does he do that?

 

Now just asking a girl out is a turn off and implies you are chasing?

 

All that list you mentioned is chasing/pursuing.

 

I think it works best when the woman makes the man do all that because she wants him to, on her initiative.

 

A guy coming up with plans like that may not get too many points, unless the girl already had her heart set on him previously because she liked what she saw (and she got to know him well).

 

My take anyway.

[Tomcat33]

The same I would propose a man behaves... with moderation.

 

Take the initiative and see how he reacts. If he responds positively but doesn't take over, go ahead and run with it. If he does not respond well, back off. If he takes over and starts taking the initiative himself, let him. If he later backs off, go back to the top of this paragraph, take the intiative again and see how he reacts. Think of the initiative as a give and take, a back and forth... to use a sports analogy, a partner should be more like the other player in a game of tennis, where we both cooperate to keep the set going, than the green on a golf course, where you exist primarily as a challenge for me to use to demonstrate what a great player I am.

 

 

That's fair, and I expected an answer along these lines because of your stance on the issue.

 

So then my next question is so what happens when a woman who takes the initiative encounters the type of guy that was really interested in her but his attraction level goes down because she pursued him and then she blows it with that guy? you know the type of guy who really doesn't buy the "modern woman" approach. Which more often than not, guys prefer to be the pursuers.

 

The sports analogy was a good one. Now let me give an anaolgy of my own. Have you ever done any sort of couples dancing at all like say Salsa dancing? Well if you have you know all too well only one person can lead otherwise you don't have much of dance. If you end up struggling on who will lead the dance you end up pulling and tugging and getting nowhere fast. It is also assumed and best regarded if the man lead in this dance. It looks better it flows better it just works better.

 

Some things are better kept traditional as far as I am concerned.

[Tomcat33]

I'm not sure it matters, but yes.

 

Re-read Djhall's post. That's how I conduct myself, and that's how I expect the men I date to behave as well. In moderation. I don't chase that which doesn't want to be caught. I test the waters and run with it if I get a positive response. If not, no biggie.

 

 

Well of course it matters if we are going to debate this topic might a well be clear on what we are discussing, or did you just post it just because you wanted to argue?!?!?

 

Ok well if it works for you then what is the point of this thread? Now I am even more confused!?!?

[djhall]

I have read it, but some men claimed it was pending on whether they were really interested in the woman.

So if a guy is not going to be interested why pursue him to seal the deal!?!? That makes no sense to me, why ME put all that effort into pursuing him if he might not even be interested. Better let him do the work and that way I know for sure he is interested. I have better things to do than to find out if a guy is into me or not??!? Like being alone.

Do you feel any differently if I reverse the gender?

 

So if a gal is not going to be interested why pursue her to seal the deal!?!? That makes no sense to me, why ME put all that effort into pursuing her if she might not even be interested. Better let her do the work and that way I know for sure she is interested. I have better things to do than to find out if a gal is into me or not??!?

[vonerik012]

I still do not understand how any of this translates to real life..

 

After a first date THE REASON I am calling is to ask her for another. I am a man, and comfortable doing that.

 

So, if there are no gender roles, and you want to call after the first date, is that because you have a plan, and are going to ask him out? And since you are asking, I am guessing you are doing the planning and paying as well?

 

Or are you just calling with the hopes that he will not have forgotten you, and then ask you out while you have him on the phone?

 

Yes, that would make life wonderful... Have women calling me, planning, picking me up, paying, and I just sit back and relax...Maybe I can serial date 4 or 5 women at once, and do this all the time.

[Star Gazer]

So then my next question is so what happens when a woman who takes the initiative encounters the type of guy that was really interested in her but his attraction level goes down because she pursued him and then she blows it with that guy?

 

Well, my entire point still applies. A guy who would be turned off by that simply isn't the right kind of guy for me. If I do something to "seal the deal" to make him NOT interested sooner than later, so be it.

 

you know the type of guy who really doesn't buy the "modern woman" approach. Which more often than not, guys prefer to be the pursuers.

 

Again, I completely disagree with this assumption.

 

Relationships cannot be choreographed. If your analogy is to hold true, the man would lead and call the shots in all aspects of the relationship. That's not cool by me, not by a long shot.

[Star Gazer]

Well of course it matters if we are going to debate this topic might a well be clear on what we are discussing, or did you just post it just because you wanted to argue?!?!?

 

Ok well if it works for you then what is the point of this thread? Now I am even more confused!?!?

 

I really hope I'm inferring condescension in your tone where there isn't any, because it's really uncalled for and unnecessary.

 

But to answer your question which you parroted from the infamous Vonerik, I'll repost the post which you managed to understand only when stated by someone other than myself:

 

May I suggest taking a reading comprehension course?

 

She started the thread to vent frustration that men don't seem to have a generally agreed upon position on how acceptable this is. That puts women in an awkward spot, because no matter which way they go, a significant portion of the male population is going to think she is wrong and/or be turned off by it. She ended by stating that since men have no generally accepted position, women should do whatever they are most comfortable with.

 

This isn't that hard to understand. It is also pretty clear from this thread that she is correct. You are a man, and you have your position. I am a man, and I have my position. We disagree. Some people agree more with me than you, and some people agree more with you than me. For what you are saying to be in any way relevant, you would have to offer some form of reasonable proof that your views are more or less universally held by men in general, which is something you are extremely unlikely to be able to do. Otherwise, you are just agreeing with her that you are one of the men who find assertive women a turn off.

[Tomcat33]

Do you feel any differently if I reverse the gender?

 

So if a gal is not going to be interested why pursue her to seal the deal!?!? That makes no sense to me, why ME put all that effort into pursuing her if she might not even be interested. Better let her do the work and that way I know for sure she is interested. I have better things to do than to find out if a gal is into me or not??!?

 

 

Cool, then don't I am not telling you not to do something. I am telling you how things are for me.

 

Furthermore, I also didn't make the rules in terms of why men get to use women for sex and then dump their asssses and on top of it call them cheap SKANKS but it happens, and it is the way it is. And it ain't changing anytime soon. Men will also be used for sex but they will never earn the title of "SkanK' the way women do. That's just the way the genders are and the way the dating world is.

 

So if you want to sit at home and not pursue women you have avery right, make your own rules and see where it gets you.

 

I bet you any money that me not bending my rules and you applying this new rule you will be left dateless while I won't be. It's unfair it is a double standard, but so is what I mentioned earlier so...the more realistic we are about things the happier we will all be.

[vonerik012]

Look..

 

Ask men out, pay for them, take them out, call them, do whatever you like. Many will will love the attention and go along for the ride.

 

And I think post 213 sounds more insecure than my attitude..If a girl says yes, she is interested. If she says no, she isnt. Waiting for women to approach you or do work will not get you too far.

 

many self respecting good catches will NEVER approach a man because they do not need to. They do not need to "do work" either.

[Tomcat33]

I really hope I'm inferring condescension in your tone where there isn't any, because it's really uncalled for and unnecessary.

 

But to answer your question which you parroted from the infamous Vonerik, I'll repost the post which you managed to understand only when stated by someone other than myself:

 

 

Listen I am not parroting anything off of anyone, if there is one thing about me is I stand alone when it comes to my thoughts and comments. k?

 

You start off every week a new dating dilemma thread about how you need to break away from old patterns to figure out what you want from men, well my advice to you is stop trying on so many outfits and stick to one and you will find it easier to commit to one way of approaching men rather than than all these different approaches on how you should be and act with them. If you are a liberated woman that likes to approach men the what are you posting about you are dommed if you will doommed if you don't? What do you even care how some guys react, you do your thing and that's that!

 

THAT was my point in asking you that.

 

My question about this thread is because you are getting so defensive with me right from the get-go and you know what that's fine you don't like my answer or post but if you don't want opposing views then don't take out a thread for opinion and just keep doing what you are doing and that's that.

 

Secondly I didn't see that DJhall post, nor am I making you repeat crap to pizz you off, if I didn't see it it's because I don't feel like going through 20 pages of garbage to see one measily answer.

[djhall]

That's fair, and I expected an answer along these lines because of your stance on the issue.

 

So then my next question is so what happens when a woman who takes the initiative encounters the type of guy that was really interested in her but his attraction level goes down because she pursued him and then she blows it with that guy? you know the type of guy who really doesn't buy the "modern woman" approach. Which more often than not, guys prefer to be the pursuers.

 

The sports analogy was a good one. Now let me give an anaolgy of my own. Have you ever done any sort of couples dancing at all like say Salsa dancing? Well if you have you know all too well only one person can lead otherwise you don't have much of dance. If you end up struggling on who will lead the dance you end up pulling and tugging and getting nowhere fast. It is also assumed and best regarded if the man lead in this dance. It looks better it flows better it just works better.

 

Some things are better kept traditional as far as I am concerned.

And thus the frurstration SG expressed in the OP... the rules of dating are not like salsa dancing, where there is a well defined and universally accepted set of rules that everyone knows and plays by. Instead dating is more like freesyle club dancing, were you have no idea what you are getting into until you try, and it could end up being beautiful or an utter disaster! I wish I knew how to answer your question... like the dancing analogy, one gal might find the white guy standby shuffle the feet and swing the arms adorable and hip grinding and ass grabbing a turn off, while another gal might be exactly the opposite. If I knew what would work in advance I'd be a very happy man . As it is, I don't, so I end up fumbling around like everyoe else.

 

Do you suppose I could get everyone to wear a bracelet with key personal preferences indicated? Oh look, she's single, looking for a relationship, not open to casual sex, sexually agressive and experimental in the context of a LTR, and prefers men who are confident but not agressive. Dating would be so much simpler if we literally wore that info on our sleeve!

[Tomcat33]

the rules of dating are not like salsa dancing, where there is a well defined and universally accepted set of rules that everyone knows and plays by. !

 

 

YES THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I appreciate some people want to make their own rules along the way and that's fine but there most definitely ARE rules to dating for the genders PLEASE!

[Tomcat33]

YES THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I appreciate some people want to make their own rules along the way and that's fine but there most definitely ARE rules to dating for the genders PLEASE!

 

 

What is fecking everything up are all these stupid rules being imposed by modern society and this is why the genders are so lost. Ask anyone how they dated in the 70's and 80's and you will see what the rules are.

[Star Gazer]

Listen I am not parroting anything off of anyone, if there is one thing about me is I stand alone when it comes to my thoughts and comments. k?

 

You parroted his question. *shrug*

 

My question about this thread is because you are getting so defensive with me right from the get-go and you know what that's fine you don't like my answer or post but if you don't want opposing views then don't take out a thread for opinion and just keep doing what you are doing and that's that.

 

I'll repeat it AGAIN, seeing as you don't read all my posts apparently. I'm not defensive. You're just coming across very condescending and rude, and seem to refuse to allow ME to handle myself as I see fit.

 

Secondly I didn't see that DJhall post, nor am I making you repeat crap to pizz you off, if I didn't see it it's because I don't feel like going through 20 pages of garbage to see one measily answer.

 

I actually quoted the incorrect post. Nevertheless, your attitude towards me is totally unwarranted.

[Star Gazer]

YES THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I appreciate some people want to make their own rules along the way and that's fine but there most definitely ARE rules to dating for the genders PLEASE!

 

About 75% of the people in this thread alone disagree with you.