Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Give us a concrete real life example of the bold part in your post. You should ask men out and plan dates? You should call them first? Give us an example... Can you read????????? Remove the word "SHOULD" and replace it with "CAN."
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Ok, so what is your real life example? You can ask men out and call them first? After a date you can call them to tell them you want to take them out in the future? Give a real life example. Are you able to?
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Arguing for the sake of arguing, not for the sake of reaching an agreement or for understanding the other person better. People who make broad generalizations when it's convenient, who don't try to understand where the other person is really coming from, and who seize on cracks in their semantics are best avoided. They aren't ever going to listen, even if you parrot their own arguments back at them. This is PRECISELY what Von is doing, and it's becoming damn irritating.
Lishy Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I agree that we should all (male and female) do whatever feels right and if there are consequences (loss of interest) then so be it ... Doing what feels right for YOURSELF is what is important, not what is right in the 'rule book' and your actions differ from guy to guy, depending on interest levels and how comfortable that person makes you feel. I am surprised that no one has picked up that Star initiated contact with a guy she has no interest in just because she was bored, that is why she felt comfortable contacting him, because she was not bothered by the result. I believe that his interest had waned with hers after the bad date and that he was pleasantly shocked when she contacted him.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Ok, so what is your real life example? You can ask men out and call them first? After a date you can call them to tell them you want to take them out in the future? Give a real life example. Are you able to? How many times are you going to ask this, and how many times do I have to say this? Yes, I can ask men out. Yes, I can call them first. After a date, yes, I can call them. Yes, I can initiate dates, conversations, phone calls, texts, anything I want if I feel like it. He can too. There's no "should," only a CAN. And YES, it's working for me RIGHT NOW. The date I initiated LAST NIGHT is an example. ALL of my long-term RELATIONSHIPS are an example. It's working FOR ME. The guys that get turned off - guys like you - well, they prove even more that they're not the right guy for me. That's all that matters. If you keep arguing just for sake of arguing, I'm going to have to report you, as you're not contributing anything meaningful to this thread.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 LOL, finally... So if it works, and has been working, why did you even start this thread? If you prefer the role of being the "courter"(sometimes) then at least you found out what works. Congrats.
djhall Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Times may change, but men are still genetically men, and women are till genetically women just like we were 500 years ago. Or at least we should try and capitalize on our inherent strengths that both sexes possess, instead of subduing the strong traits, and strengthening the weak traits. Yes, but people are more than just their genetics and inherent instincts and strenghts. Times have changed and so have our behaviors. Which I think is a good thing... or should my dating strategy be to whack Star Gazer over the head with a club and drag her by the hair back to my place?
Ariadne Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I've heard it before, but it's one of my favorites... "Men pick, but women choose". Exactly. Even in the animal kingdom. You are not going to see some, say, male peacock going.. oh, that is the most beautiful female peacock I've ever seen... I'm going to mate with "her," I want "her." Not a chance. The best the male peacock can do is show off his feathers... together with "all the other males," and the female is going to look at all of them and say, ok, I want this one. Otherwise the most beautiful female peacock is going to be approached (and have to reject and be annoyed by) all the loser peacocks.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Yes, but people are more than just their genetics and inherent instincts and strenghts. Times have changed and so have our behaviors. Which I think is a good thing... or should my dating strategy be to whack Star Gazer over the head with a club and drag her by the hair back to my place? LOL.. For most women that might be more natural than going up to men and asking them out, or planning dates and taking men out. And yes, I do believe women choose men.. As an example, if there are 10 men lined up, in the old days a woman might bat here eyes at one of them. Today she might smile at one of them.. That might be a form of "pursuing".. That is not the same as making all the first moves throughout the dating process. Times have not changed that much.. You do not see many women asking men out, picking men up, planning dates, paying for them etc, while the man just gets ready and waits..Nor do women want to do that.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 LOL, finally... So if it works, and has been working, why did you even start this thread? If you prefer the role of being the "courter"(sometimes) then at least you found out what works. Congrats. Because, as I've said, the "traditional" wisdom most often touted around here is to NEVER contact a man, to let (or really, "make") him chase isn't universally accepted. By starting this thread, again, as I've said, I was challenging that concept. You've already asked this, and I've already answered. AGAIN. We've already addressed this.
djhall Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 LOL, finally... So if it works, and has been working, why did you even start this thread? If you prefer the role of being the "courter"(sometimes) then at least you found out what works. Congrats. May I suggest taking a reading comprehension course? She started the thread to vent frustration that men don't seem to have a generally agreed upon position on how acceptable this is. That puts women in an awkward spot, because no matter which way they go, a significant portion of the male population is going to think she is wrong and/or be turned off by it. She ended by stating that since men have no generally accepted position, women should do whatever they are most comfortable with. This isn't that hard to understand. It is also pretty clear from this thread that she is correct. You are a man, and you have your position. I am a man, and I have my position. We disagree. Some people agree more with me than you, and some people agree more with you than me. For what you are saying to be in any way relevant, you would have to offer some form of reasonable proof that your views are more or less universally held by men in general, which is something you are extremely unlikely to be able to do. Otherwise, you are just agreeing with her that you are one of the men who find assertive women a turn off.
Tomcat33 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Times have not changed that much.. You do not see many women asking men out, picking men up, planning dates, paying for them etc, while the man just gets ready and waits..Nor do women want to do that. He does have a point..... If you really feel like you can't win either way then it's safer to do it the old fashioned way, well for me at least it would be. More often than not a guy will want to do the pursuing, well at least it seems that way in my experience. Actually, it depends on the types of men we go for, I for one am not into metrosexual pretty boy types I don't go for the ultramodern types so perhaps the types of men I date are more traditional in terms of what they prefer, and so am I so it works out. I tend to go for guys that are very competitive be it in sports or career so they tend to be the "take charge types" and hence enjoy the challenge of the chase. So really I suppose you need to determine that first. I saw that test posted here and it seemed silly because in looking at it loosely I answered yes and no to all the questions on both ends of the spectrum so really I could fit in anywhere. I am a go getter when it comes to getting what I want in terms of my relationship with the world but I in the early stages of dating I let the guy pursue. Once it becomes a more regular thing I step more into taking initiative, it is my personal rule and this has always worked for me and that's fine. For me it's also a way to weed out shy guys or introverted types, I just prefer the opposite. So if he is too shy too laid back to pursue I lose interest very quickly no matter how hot and great package he is.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 May I suggest taking a reading comprehension course? She started the thread to vent frustration that men don't seem to have a generally agreed upon position on how acceptable this is. That puts women in an awkward spot, because no matter which way they go, a significant portion of the male population is going to think she is wrong and/or be turned off by it. She ended by stating that since men have no generally accepted position, women should do whatever they are most comfortable with. This isn't that hard to understand. It is also pretty clear from this thread that she is correct. You are a man, and you have your position. I am a man, and I have my position. We disagree. Some people agree more with me than you, and some people agree more with you than me. For what you are saying to be in any way relevant, you would have to offer some form of reasonable proof that your views are more or less universally held by men in general, which is something you are extremely unlikely to be able to do. Otherwise, you are just agreeing with her that you are one of the men who find assertive women a turn off. Thank you for that very accurate summation of why I started this thread. I'm not sure why it's so difficult for Vonerik to understand any of this. Perhaps you're right, that he needs to take a reading comprehension course.
Tomcat33 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Ok so there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions coming from the men who stand on either sand of the fence. So to make this thread more comprehensive and to tackle the issue head on, because if men do sit on either side of the fence and some like to be chased and others don't how do you men propose a woman behave that likes to do either, like in Star's case? What kind of solution do you propose on how to make the right move with the right guy? Would say then just go for what you feel and let the chips fall where they may? And so should she just start pursuing all the time hoping that men will go for it or what?
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 I tend to go for guys that are very competitive be it in sports or career so they tend to be the "take charge types" and hence enjoy the challenge of the chase. A guy who enjoys the challenge of the chase only for purposes of "the chase" will never appeal to me.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 A guy who enjoys the challenge of the chase only for purposes of "the chase" will never appeal to me. Once they catch you, they are done with you anyway.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Ok so there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions coming from the men who stand on either sand of the fence. So to make this thread more comprehensive and to tackle the issue head on, because if men do sit on either side of the fence and some like to be chased and others don't how do you men propose a woman behave that likes to do either, like in Star's case? What kind of solution do you propose on how to make the right move with the right guy? Would say then just go for what you feel and let the chips fall where they may? And so should she just start pursuing all the time hoping that men will go for it or what? Again, I NEVER said that I or any other woman should do ALL of the pursuing. But yes, seeing as there are guys who like being pursued, and there are those that don't, seeing as I'm the type of girl who goes after what I want, and want to be able to call a guy when I want to, and want to be able to initiate dates when I want to...well, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to BE MYSELF. The right guy will like it. The wrong one won't. I'm not sure why this comes across as rocket science to a few.
Trialbyfire Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Ok so there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions coming from the men who stand on either sand of the fence. So to make this thread more comprehensive and to tackle the issue head on, because if men do sit on either side of the fence and some like to be chased and others don't how do you men propose a woman behave that likes to do either, like in Star's case? What kind of solution do you propose on how to make the right move with the right guy? Would say then just go for what you feel and let the chips fall where they may? And so should she just start pursuing all the time hoping that men will go for it or what? TC, I don't think there's a methodology that needs to be cast in stone, even solely for Star, nvm anyone else. It will rely on intuitive knowledge of the individuals involved.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Once they catch you, they are done with you anyway. Precisely. So, chasing a guy who lets himself be caught by me can in certain ways be a safer option.
Tomcat33 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 A guy who enjoys the challenge of the chase only for purposes of "the chase" will never appeal to me. Excuse me but for someone who is telling others about reading classes where did I say he SOLELY enjoys the chase? I said I tend to go for competitive guys who enjoy a challenge, I am like that too not that I go for guys who enjoy the chase for the sake of a chase. Otherwise I would have never ended up in a relationship with them.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 TC, I don't think there's a methodology that needs to be cast in stone, even solely for Star, nvm anyone else. It will rely on intuitive knowledge of the individuals involved. I agree with this as well. All situations should be taken on a case-by-case basis. My only 'rule' is that no gender-rule should apply.
Tomcat33 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Again, I NEVER said that I or any other woman should do ALL of the pursuing. But yes, seeing as there are guys who like being pursued, and there are those that don't, seeing as I'm the type of girl who goes after what I want, and want to be able to call a guy when I want to, and want to be able to initiate dates when I want to...well, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to BE MYSELF. The right guy will like it. The wrong one won't. I'm not sure why this comes across as rocket science to a few. Why are you getting so defensive? :laugh: And why did you even post this topic if you are just going to get your backup? I was not attacking YOU, I was just trying to bring this conversation around to see how guys would see it since there are men that sit on either side of the fence. No it's not rocket science at all. I get it do you?
djhall Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I tend to go for guys that are very competitive be it in sports or career so they tend to be the "take charge types" and hence enjoy the challenge of the chase. . . . For me it's also a way to weed out shy guys or introverted types, I just prefer the opposite. So if he is too shy too laid back to pursue I lose interest very quickly no matter how hot and great package he is. So I say: Do whatever the eff feels right TO YOU. The right person will pick up what you're puttin' down. Looks like you agree more than you disagree.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 No gender rules? lol BS.. I seriously doubt you want to approach men, ask for their number, call them, plan a date, pick them up, pay, and drop them off. If no gender rules apply, you should have no problem with the above, right? Men do it all the time.
Tomcat33 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 TC, I don't think there's a methodology that needs to be cast in stone, even solely for Star, nvm anyone else. It will rely on intuitive knowledge of the individuals involved. I never said there was, why are you telling ME that? I am sharing what works for me, like other women have shared what works for them. For me it doens't work to chase a man, nor will I ever do that. I am quite happy letting a guy come to me and letting him take the initiative, it makes me feel feminine it makes me feel sexy to be chased by a guy and not the other way around. I mean really we are women exactly HOW MUCH do we have to convince men to pay attention to us? A guy will pay attention to any woman who comes on to him but you want to get the right kind of attention, well at least I do. I am quite happy with the guy paying at the end of a date if he asked me out and I am also quite happy with thim having enough respect to firm up plans before the day of the date, and if at the end of the night he drops me off at home and I don't invite him in because I just don't do that, he won't take offense to that he will actually appreciate that and want to see me the following time around. I set my ground and HE follows. So really who is doing the choosing here? It's all in how you wanna look at it really...
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