Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Get over it, V. You're wrong. My way is working for me. As for you, do whatever works FOR YOU. That's all that matters.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 von, I was talking about you with another member and he said that much of your rhetoric is based on not understanding. I didn't agree with him at the time but I now think he's right. You honestly can't see past the superficial level of any discussion. And he paints with broad strokes. Situations seem to be very black and white with him, almost as if he is an alien describing the human population to the other aliens back home Not that you don't whip out a couple good ones here and there, Von....it's just hard to trust your opinion when there is such an obvious dislike of women coming from your end. But that's just it. His difficulty is that he can't see nuance or depth. It's why he has so much difficulty with women, ascribing behaviours to worse case fantasy scenarios because he's unable to grasp or understand anything beyond the surface. Interesting observations, and spot-on as well.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 And he paints with broad strokes. Situations seem to be very black and white with him, almost as if he is an alien describing the human population to the other aliens back home Not that you don't whip out a couple good ones here and there, Von....it's just hard to trust your opinion when there is such an obvious dislike of women coming from your end. LOL... Yes, on SOME topics I am very black and white. On others I see more shades of gray than most. When it comes to a woman pursuing men (in the context I am assuming we are speaking of) I think it is futile. It sounds like some women are saying "This is 2009! We do not have to be passive".. So they have that mindset, and believe love and courtship merely SHOULD work how they want it to. Being in control. Times may change, but men are still genetically men, and women are till genetically women just like we were 500 years ago. Or at least we should try and capitalize on our inherent strengths that both sexes possess, instead of subduing the strong traits, and strengthening the weak traits. I would want a complement to me who can bring her feminine side into my life(something that I am lacking), not a wannabe twin with different sex organs having to prove day in and day out how she is just the same as me.
Trialbyfire Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Interesting observations, and spot-on as well. If you consider racism, people fear, hate, lash out and try to control what they can't understand. This is the same psychology, except that he's attempting gender-cide.
BannaBee57 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I would want a complement to me who can bring her feminine side into my life(something that I am lacking), not a wannabe twin with different sex organs having to prove day in and day out how she is just the same as me. What if there was not ulterior motive? What if she wasn't trying to prove anything or show you that she's equal? What if she just really kinda liked you and wanted to see you or talk to you again? Why does there always have to be some fear of an underlying feminist agenda with you?
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Gendercide because I do not believe women need to pursue men? TBF, how do you feel about pursuing men?
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 What if there was not ulterior motive? What if she wasn't trying to prove anything or show you that she's equal? What if she just really kinda liked you and wanted to see you or talk to you again? Why does there always have to be some fear of an underlying feminist agenda with you? Spot on. Why does every interaction with a female become a political statement?
BannaBee57 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Spot on. Why does every interaction with a female become a political statement? Insecurity?? Some people can evolve, others can't. The one's that can't or won't go away sooner or later.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Insecure would be calling a guy after a first date because you cannot wait for him to call..
Trialbyfire Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Insecurity?? Some people can evolve, others can't. The one's that can't or won't go away sooner or later. Evolution ensures that non-adaptability gets filtered out eventually.
johan Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 There are people whose communicating pattern is to never agree and to debate meaningless nuances in what they hear from the other person. Simply because the other person said it, and for no other reason. It's like the friend who I was out with last night. On almost every topic we discussed, he chose to make corrections in what I said, to shift semantics, and to dispute things that were logically correct. As if he knew better about every single thing I ever said than I do. I started getting pissed. I realized that I could tell him the sky was blue, and he's automatically start arguing about it or correcting me. It's not a productive communicating style. He's not even conscious of it, although he was clearly clued into the fact that I was losing my patience. It's not a good way to keep friends. You can't win with someone like that.
Ariadne Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Insecurity?? Some people can evolve, others can't. The one's that can't or won't go away sooner or later. It's always been that way. Rarely would a girl become interested in some guy that starts chasing her that she is not interested in the first place. Men are better off giving themselves some value, show interest and leave it at that. If the girl likes him she'll let him know.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 If I started a thread stating women should pursue men, women would say I have no balls, and i am .... INSECURE. If I say there is not much reason for women to pursue men, I am still .... INSECURE. Meanwhile, some are afraid to voice their true opinions, so as not to offend some, or agree with others. So they say much of nothing, or just single out one poster..
Trialbyfire Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 There are people whose communicating pattern is to never agree and to debate meaningless nuances in what they hear from the other person. Simply because the other person said it, and for no other reason. It's like the friend who I was out with last night. On almost every topic we discussed, he chose to make corrections in what I said, to shift semantics, and to dispute things that were logically correct. As if he knew better about every single thing I ever said than I do. I started getting pissed. I realized that I could tell him the sky was blue, and he's automatically start arguing about it or correcting me. It's not a productive communicating style. He's not even conscious of it, although he was clearly clued into the fact that I was losing my patience. It's not a good way to keep friends. You can't win with someone like that. Does your friend solely disagree with men and not women?
djhall Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I suppose this will just be one of those things I will never understand. I am frankly astonished that anyone still believes the whole "men need to chase a woman and feel like he "won" her in order to be interested" nonsense. Star Gazer, I understand your OP now and agree with you. You are dammed in you do and dammed if you don't. Apparently there are still plenty of men running around out there for whom stalking versus dating is a fine line, and it ruins the whole thing if she is an active participant. On the other hand, there are plenty of men like me as well. I don't think it matters if you are male or female when it comes to making the first move and keeping things going afterward. If you're interested, take the intiative to get things started. If I'm interested and I take the initiative to start things, I'll make a couple of efforts and then back off too see what you do. If you are interested, you'll pick it up and do something to keep things going. If you call and ask me out for a change, great. If you send me a message that says, "I really enjoyed xxxx and I am looking forward to seeing you again," that works too. The point is, you cared enough to take the intitiative to keep the contact going. If you don't, I'll move on. Why would I want to keep throwing myself at a woman who isn't interested enough to let me know she is interested and wants more?
Ariadne Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 If I started a thread stating women should pursue men, women would say I have no balls, and i am .... INSECURE. If I say there is not much reason for women to pursue men, I am still .... INSECURE. Meanwhile, some are afraid to voice their true opinions, so as not to offend some, or agree with others. So they say much of nothing, or just single out one poster.. Actually, from my experience. I've noticed that the guys that do the chasing are usually guys that have little value and guys that girls wouldn't want to date anyway.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 If I started a thread stating women should pursue men, women would say I have no balls, and i am .... INSECURE. Again, you're not paying attention, not understanding, or choosing to ignore the obvious. I never said women or men SHOULD do ANYTHING but do what feels right to them. Period. End of story.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Banabee... If I am wrong,. on your other thread, why did you wait around for that man to call you? Why didn't you pursue him? Instead you wait around, then come here to post that he took too long to contact you. Why didn't you call him a day ahead, and plan the nights events? Did you "evolve" into become the pursuer?
BannaBee57 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 It's always been that way. Rarely would a girl become interested in some guy that starts chasing her that she is not interested in the first place. Men are better off giving themselves some value, show interest and leave it at that. If the girl likes him she'll let him know. I've heard it before, but it's one of my favorites... "Men pick, but women choose". There's no one set way of doing things though. People have different ways of communicating, so I say just keep doing it your way ( like Star said she is) and eventually you'll find someone who's on the same page as you. That's how people find compatible mates, isn't it?
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 I suppose this will just be one of those things I will never understand. I am frankly astonished that anyone still believes the whole "men need to chase a woman and feel like he "won" her in order to be interested" nonsense. Star Gazer, I understand your OP now and agree with you. You are dammed in you do and dammed if you don't. Apparently there are still plenty of men running around out there for whom stalking versus dating is a fine line, and it ruins the whole thing if she is an active participant. On the other hand, there are plenty of men like me as well. I don't think it matters if you are male or female when it comes to making the first move and keeping things going afterward. If you're interested, take the initiative to get things started. If I'm interested and I take the initiative to start things, I'll make a couple of efforts and then back off too see what you do. If you are interested, you'll pick it up and do something to keep things going. If you call and ask me out for a change, great. If you send me a message that says, "I really enjoyed xxxx and I am looking forward to seeing you again," that works too. The point is, you cared enough to take the initiative to keep the contact going. If you don't, I'll move on. Why would I want to keep throwing myself at a woman who isn't interested enough to let me know she is interested and wants more? That's all I'm saying. I don't think gender should play a role in getting things started, or keeping things going for that matter. For those who DO think it matters, well, those people aren't right for me. But I know there are enough people out there who agree with me, and would appreciate my efforts, such that there's no longer a need for me to censor myself or act according to someone else's guidelines.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Banabee... If I am wrong,. on your other thread, why did you wait around for that man to call you? Why didn't you pursue him? Instead you wait around, then come here to post that he took too long to contact you. Why didn't you call him a day ahead, and plan the nights events? Did you "evolve" into become the pursuer? This entire post is internally inconsistent.
johan Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Does your friend solely disagree with men and not women? He doesn't discriminate. Women tend to accept what he has to say, and/or roll their eyes. I was just pointing out that I see that kind of thing going on in this thread. Arguing for the sake of arguing, not for the sake of reaching an agreement or for understanding the other person better. People who make broad generalizations when it's convenient, who don't try to understand where the other person is really coming from, and who seize on cracks in their semantics are best avoided. They aren't ever going to listen, even if you parrot their own arguments back at them.
BannaBee57 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Banabee... If I am wrong,. on your other thread, why did you wait around for that man to call you? Why didn't you pursue him? Instead you wait around, then come here to post that he took too long to contact you. Why didn't you call him a day ahead, and plan the nights events? Did you "evolve" into become the pursuer? Depends on my interest level. If I had been highly interested in him I MAY have shot him a text earlier in the day to see what the plan was. However, since my interest level was mediocre at best I let him do the contacting. It changes with each situation VON.
Trialbyfire Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 That's all I'm saying. I don't think gender should play a role in getting things started, or keeping things going for that matter. For those who DO think it matters, well, those people aren't right for me. But I know there are enough people out there who agree with me, and would appreciate my efforts, such that there's no longer a need for me to censor myself or act according to someone else's guidelines. These are key points Star. Be yourself and the right person will appreciate who you are, regardless of your methodology.
vonerik012 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 That's all I'm saying. I don't think gender should play a role in getting things started, or keeping things going for that matter. For those who DO think it matters, well, those people aren't right for me. But I know there are enough people out there who agree with me, and would appreciate my efforts, such that there's no longer a need for me to censor myself or act according to someone else's guidelines. Give us a concrete real life example of the bold part in your post. You should ask men out and plan dates? You should call them first? Give us an example...
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