Tomcat33 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Well, excuse me for not creating an OP to your liking. I always read an entire thread before responding, particularly when asking questions. Are you kidding me? You ALWAYS read an entire thread before responding to the OP?!!?!? You are kidding right? Maybe then you should warn in the OP "20 page conversation to follow do not interrrupt until you know what we are talking about" C'mon!! My idea was that an OP stands pretty much and more or less alone. What transpires after is as usual a whole bunch of banter.
johan Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Why don't you wear a skirt around the street then if you have no problem with that? Instead of shorts wear a skirt if you really don't care what people think then please why don't you wear a skirt instead of shorts? Are you trying to suggest he wear a skirt? On the streets? A skirt instead of shorts?
Tomcat33 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Are you trying to suggest he wear a skirt? On the streets? A skirt instead of shorts? No what I was saying was why doesn't he wear a skirt, on the streets instead of shorts or as opposed to shorts on the streets a skirt he wear a skirt. Instead of shorts. Ok so I was repetetive in my first post! LOL
johan Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 No what I was saying was why doesn't he wear a skirt, on the streets instead of shorts or as opposed to shorts on the streets a skirt he wear a skirt. Instead of shorts. Ah. I see where you're going with this. A skirt. On the streets. But not shorts.
Tomcat33 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Ah. I see where you're going with this. A skirt. On the streets. But not shorts. No can't you read? A skirt instead of shorts on the streets wear a skirt instead of shorts.
djhall Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 That's fine you don't have to preempt your post with "im not trying to be difficult" I can handle and opposing view and won't take it as if you are attacking ME, we just have opppsing views no big deal DJhall. The reason I gave you the example of women in power who are hormonally more inclined to be like men is not because "cats are felines the grass is green" you don't see the point fine but don't undermine what I was trying to say with some petty comment, let's have an intelligen discussion rather than an immature one cool? It is NO conicindence that only certain types of women make it to these types of roles it is not because women are not as smart as men but moreson because men function better in these types of roles because they are less emotional and less "attached" So stating that peice of information was to illustrate that yes certain women do make it to those roles but perhaps men are still better cut out for it and the women that do make it are more "like men". Of course it it cool.. I was afraid I may come off as being petty and immature due to appearaing to be dense or obstinate on purpose, and I really wasn't tying too. Rather, I don't see why it should naturally or logically follow that we react to that as if it were a bad thing or something that necessarily makes her less feminine as a result instead of merely feminine in a different kind of way. Saying "Hillary is successful and assertive in getting what she wants. She likely has high testosterone levels" makes sense. It is the further leap to, "That makes her a wannabe man, or that makes her too manly, or that makes her less feminine, or that makes her a big turn off to people," that I think doesn't follow without further argument as to why that should be so overwhelming that we can't look past it to appreciate the rest of her feminine characteristics. I am also not sure how much of that due to women naturally not being cut out for those kinds of roles and how much is due to us socially puninshing women who demonstrate that they are. Why don't you wear a skirt around the street then if you have no problem with that? Instead of shorts wear a skirt if you really don't care what people think then please why don't you wear a skirt instead of shorts? As I said, I don't have any personal desire to wear a skirt, so I see no practical reason to bring myself the social hassles that would come from taking that action. To me that is a very different argument than saying there is some inherently valid reason why I would be wrong to do so or why people should react badly to me if I did. I don't think people should react badly, but I know they will, and I am not motivated to go around challenging everyone's reactions to it just for the heck of it. quote=Tomcat33;1828447]I think the dating dance works well with men taking leadership roles in the beginning stages because women hold the court when it comes to sex, if we strip men of this little power which is to also select women to court and pursue them we finish by emasculating the male gender completely and stripping it of all power. And what good does that do us as a whole? I don't want to be a man, I don't know how many women REALLY do! Men don't hold the power in sex, WE do, let men hold the power in selecting women. Tomcat, I think that may be the first time anyone in this thread has actually tried to make a logical argument for why it should be that way, instead of just insisting that it is. I might argue that men would have the same power women do, the power to choose to accept or reject the woman, in addition to the power to approach the woman themself, but now we are discussing why it should or should not be taken negatively by the man, which is a very positive development. quote=Tomcat33;1828447]You are saying the same thing, I am you just want to guise it under the pretext that she should do it for her own sake and for the "types" of men she choosed. The reality is that more often than not men will not want to be pursued unless they are interested and even so it can kill the attraction for them. For long term appeal, for sex anything goes of course... Well, SG made a descriptive statement that some men like it and some men don't, so if you can't please everyone you might as well just be yourself. There isn't much to talk about in a descriptive statement like that, so people naturally started manking normative statements about how it should or should not be okay for women to do so, and whether men should or should not react negatively to a woman who does. Now we start assingning value judgments to people's opinions and off we go. I come from the point of view that if you are going to react negatively to someone, it should be up to you to demonstrate why you should react negatively and not up to them to demonstrate why you should not. In other words, acceptance should be the norm absent valid justification for non-acceptance. Hence the skirt thing, if you are going to judge me negatively for it, I think you should have to justify why you react that way, rather than me having to justify why you shouldn't. If you can't, you're the one with the problem, not me. But my ideals about what people should do don't often change what other people actually do. In that respect, I think people should not react negatively to a woman who pursues a man. Sense the negative reation is on the part of the man in this case, I think it should be up to him to justify his reaction or get over it. As a practical matter, we might agree that SG should refrain from pursuing men who don't want to be pursued. I'm not sure we agree on whether men should not want to be pursued, and react negatively to women who do.
djhall Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 This reaction to this thread is really remarkable. I seriously doubt I could ever generate this much discussion by posting a topic that was logically and topically similar. Some men like women who put out easily. Some men don't. Women should put out or not put out depending on what they feel is best for them. Discuss for 100s of posts.
Tomcat33 Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 You made some really great points dj, and I am not dismissing them I wanted to point that out in the least since it's late and I have to get ready for bed and can't go through point by point now perhaps tomorrow, but will only comment on this right here: Well, SG made a descriptive statement that some men like it and some men don't, so if you can't please everyone you might as well just be yourself. I think that is the million dollar answer right there. Early on when I joined the discussion in this thread I asked a very simple question: for the men that sit on either side of the fence how do you propose a girl go about this modern way of viewing dating? For StarGazer's benefit I asked that to see what men would consider the best way to go about this is. And when I asked that I was hoping one of the guys that sit on the polar end of the issue would make a statement along the lines of what you just said because it has more effect if it comes from a guy. It took a lot longer than I had anticipated but it gave for an interesting discussion nonetheless. So in conclusion if you are true to who you are and you are convinced that your way is best for you, being yourself is ALWAYS a win/win situation. It doesn't matter if you are old fasioned or ultra modern in your views go with what feels right to you if it works, if it doesn't then try something different. My way has worked for 34 yrs (knock on wood) so if it ain't broke... PS gender issues tend to attract discussion, I worked on a project a few years ago that was primarily centered around gender issues, never a dull moment I tell ya! nite nite
Lishy Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 I do not think it is rocket science that most men like the chase Star has decided that she likes to chase too and I am sure it will work sometimes and not others BUT the bottom line is that nothing is set in stone and rules are made to be broken, if it works for her then it is all good. Personally I would never chase a man or call first in the beginning, but that is me. I learned years ago never to chase men.
trisha4u Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 So, I hadn't heard from the guy I wasn't all that into (Dave) in almost a week. I got home from a business trip last night and was exhausted so I stayed in. I became incredibly bored, so I texted him hello. He responded immediately, and said he was surprised to hear from me. Why? He said, "Well, I figured if you were into me, you'd call me. I didn't want to push the issue." By Dave's rules, if a girl is into a guy, SHE contacts HIM. Okay. On the other hand, certain guys - such as the text dumper, or other guys who I AM/WAS into - don't want to be called. They want to have the upper hand. By TD's rules, if a guy is into a girl, HE calls HER. If she preempts this act by calling him first, he's turned off. In other words, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I say: Do whatever the eff feels right TO YOU. The right person will pick up what you're puttin' down. hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi
rod_in_gtown Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 By Dave's rules, if a girl is into a guy, SHE contacts HIM. ... By TD's rules, if a guy is into a girl, HE calls HER. If she preempts this act by calling him first, he's turned off. Wow... what a LONG thread! lol. Back to the OP, Both Dave's and TD's rules seem to be on opposit ends of the spectrum here. For me it's a matter of finding a balance and it also helps how much I'm into the woman I'm dating. If I like you, I LOVE being contacted, it shows me that you're not afraid to put yourself out there and that you value me more than some game. Of course, all things in moderation. I did have a girl I dated a couple of times call me and text me more than I called and texted her and I lost interest. NOT because of this behavior exclusively but more of a combination of not being completely attracted to her and not really being impressed by her interests/job/hobbies. For me it has to be a bit of a "complete package". Oddly enough, I find lawyers VERY interesting (don't ask, most people think I'm crazy) but they tend to have a lot of fun stories and tend to be able to have an intelligent conversation about almost anything... The relationships where I've had more success have had some level of chase by women. I don't want a doormat. So I say: Do whatever the eff feels right TO YOU. The right person will pick up what you're puttin' down. I'd say this is just about dead on.
Author Star Gazer Posted September 8, 2008 Author Posted September 8, 2008 The relationships where I've had more success have had some level of chase by women. I don't want a doormat. Same here. The relationships where I've had the most success have involved a level of chase on my part, even if it's just categorized as "putting myself out there" and making my interest known.
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