audrey_1 Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I am trying to make a definitive decision in my current dating situation. Something I read in another thread got my attention: I think we all have doubts. There is a big difference though between your head doubting your heart and your heart doubting your head. Head doubting heart is a good thing. If your heart says "I love her" then your head needs to decide if that is a good thing or not. Some people simply aren't good for us no matter how much we love them. The reason for not taking our relationship to the next level has been stated as a pursuit of financial stability. Specifically he said, "I know I should be pursuing a serious commitment, but my logical mind (which unlike my heart has never failed/hurt me) tells me to take it one step at a time." It's been a few months since he's said this, and since then, we have stopped having sex after discussing that it made us uncomfortable since we're not in a committed relationship. We've spent many hours talking, gone hiking, and I've even stayed at his home and in his bed. I am self-sufficient and in a decent place. I consider interaction with him to be icing on an already baked cake. Based on what he said, should I even remotely consider our being together in the future as a possibility, or simply move on with my life, with or without his friendship, and not look back? I made the mistake of allowing my heart to become invested, but I am seriously wanting to throw a wall up where he's concerned ... maybe permanently.
Author audrey_1 Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 I suppose, like everything else, it depends on the situation (yes, I know, I over think everything). If I was mostly angling for a good romp in the sheets, that's not good. If I thought she wasn't really into me, that could come across like she was looking for an excuse to slow down or back off because she wasn't really feeling it. If I was serious about wanting her long-term, and I knew she was feeling the attraction too, then yes, I think it is a good thing. It really isn't so bad to know someone is so hot for you that they might lose the benefit of logical thought if they aren't careful! I think it is also a good sign for a long-term relationship if the future of the relationship is at least as important as immediate pleasure. I know with certainty he isn't looking for a romp; he's said more than once that it's my companionship he enjoys, but there is no doubt we're attracted to one another. Just this weekend when we were hiking, I was swimming in the river, and I climbed beneath a waterfall and sat there with the water crashing down on me. I think I saw a bulge in his pants. We're moving at a snail's pace, but this let me know he at least still finds me desirable. We haven't been intimate in three months, but in that three months, we've spent a lot of quality time together, just talking and enjoying ourselves. He's told me he cares for me, and he's mentioned things to me that I didn't even realize he paid attention to. He's mentioned future plans, and I'm in them. Plus, he told me I was a "great catch." Now I just have to figure out whether he's the one who wants to catch me, or whether I need to shut this down and look elsewhere.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 The reason for not taking our relationship to the next level has been stated as a pursuit of financial stability. Specifically he said, "I know I should be pursuing a serious commitment, but my logical mind (which unlike my heart has never failed/hurt me) tells me to take it one step at a time." It might help if we knew what you think the next level of your relationship is, and what kind of financial stability he is looking for? Marrying someone carries much greater financial consequences than moving in together or just agreeing to be a fully exclusive couple. Also, someone who is $100,000 in debt and starting bankruptcy is a very different situation than someone who is financially stable but stretching dimes and just doesn't think they can support you in the style you are used to.
Author audrey_1 Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 It might help if we knew what you think the next level of your relationship is, and what kind of financial stability he is looking for? Marrying someone carries much greater financial consequences than moving in together or just agreeing to be a fully exclusive couple. Also, someone who is $100,000 in debt and starting bankruptcy is a very different situation than someone who is financially stable but stretching dimes and just doesn't think they can support you in the style you are used to. The next level would be exclusivity. He has asked we keep it casual, though he told me he isn't seeing anyone other than me. Understanding the way he thinks, I believe he feels less pressure this way. In the beginning, I was seeing other people, but I haven't lately, as he's the one I care the most about. I'm wondering whether I should reconsider this, in case I'm setting myself up for disappointment. I probably should make it a priority to keep my options open. He lost his job, so right now he is living on savings. He has an entrepreneurial spirit, so right now, he's looking for the next big thing.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 The next level would be exclusivity. He has asked we keep it casual, though he told me he isn't seeing anyone other than me. Understanding the way he thinks, I believe he feels less pressure this way. In the beginning, I was seeing other people, but I haven't lately, as he's the one I care the most about. I'm wondering whether I should reconsider this, in case I'm setting myself up for disappointment. I probably should make it a priority to keep my options open. He lost his job, so right now he is living on savings. He has an entrepreneurial spirit, so right now, he's looking for the next big thing. Okay, so how does the job situation tie in with sexual and emotional exclusivity? He doesn't think he can be exclusive unless he is making a certain amount of money in his job? (Or is he so hot he could actually make money that way? ) Is he thinking that he may end up devoting so much time to "the next big thing" that he won't be a good partner in the relationship? Does he think if he fails at the next big thing that you won't want a relationship with a man who is broke?
Author audrey_1 Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 I'm not sure. I lean more towards not making a certain amount of money in his job and/or the time that he will need to devote to his next project. What he has in the works would require him to travel across the US on a regular basis.
AriaIncognito Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 How do you feel about potentially marrying someone who could be jobless more often than not? I think that you need to be on the same page when it comes to that kinda stuff, in order to feel totally secure within a relationship. Would you be able to deal with being the breadwinner while he sits at home thinking about "the next big thing" which might or might not come to him in due time?
Author audrey_1 Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 How do you feel about potentially marrying someone who could be jobless more often than not? I think that you need to be on the same page when it comes to that kinda stuff, in order to feel totally secure within a relationship. Would you be able to deal with being the breadwinner while he sits at home thinking about "the next big thing" which might or might not come to him in due time? Um, good point. And one I hadn't considered. I'm not sure how I would feel about that. But I think that's the type of situation he is ultimately trying to avoid due to pride.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I'm not sure. I lean more towards not making a certain amount of money in his job and/or the time that he will need to devote to his next project. What he has in the works would require him to travel across the US on a regular basis. Okay, so now we have some stuff to work with. First question is, if he doesn't make a certain level of money, if he spends the majority of his time and effort on the next project (and the one after that) and has very little to spend with you, or he travels across the US on a regular basis (meaning he probably has very little time to spend with you at home and you will be alone most of the time while he is off doing god know what, god knows where, with god knows who), how do you feel about being in a commited and exclusive relationship with him? If you have doubts, that could be the source of his doubts... why get to attached to someone who might not be willing to stick it out with you? Next question, is he up for being in a committed and exclusive relationship with you under those circumstances? If he is too insecure to be able to accept a relationship with someone who understands his financial and work schedule constraints, nothing you do is going to make this work. He has to open to the possibility of it working in order to make it work. He may also have concerns about his commitment to remaining faithful if faced with too many lonely nights in bland hotel rooms. If you are up for this, and he is up for this, he is going to have to decide if he is willing to treat you like an adult, accept that you know what you are doing and what is best for you, and move ahead with giving the relationship a chance. This doesn't sound like an issue that is going to resolve itself if you just give it a little time. What are you going to do, hang around for years while he pursues his next project in the hope that someday he will decide to settle down and commit to you instead of yet another project?
LionLover Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 DJ made some excellent points. I don't know the entire situation but from what you've posted, it seems like an enormous amount of weight for you to carry based on a bunch of "what ifs". I mean these are things that are good to get out on the table but I think it would be very difficult for him to provide anything more than what he is able to give you right now based on where he is at this juncture. So the question(s) remain, is this something you are truly okay with; will you be content/satisfied with what he is able to provide for the time being? Being that there is no fixed "for the time being", that makes it even more difficult.
Lucky_One Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I still am of the opinion that if a man likes a woman, he dates her. He doesn't "hang out" with her, he doesn't go weeks without seeing her or calling her. He doesn't go from a sexual relationship to a peck on the cheek when you drive away. Words are great. We all like to hear positive and pretty things. But actions mean a whole lot. He isn't committing to you in words at all; he has told you what he wants. And he surely isn't committing to you in actions. I think you put an awful lot of thought and energy into a friendship that is not a BF/GF thing. I know you hate hearing that, but I really think you need to rethink this entire thing.
Trialbyfire Posted September 5, 2008 Posted September 5, 2008 I still am of the opinion that if a man likes a woman, he dates her. He doesn't "hang out" with her, he doesn't go weeks without seeing her or calling her. He doesn't go from a sexual relationship to a peck on the cheek when you drive away. Words are great. We all like to hear positive and pretty things. But actions mean a whole lot. He isn't committing to you in words at all; he has told you what he wants. And he surely isn't committing to you in actions. I think you put an awful lot of thought and energy into a friendship that is not a BF/GF thing. I know you hate hearing that, but I really think you need to rethink this entire thing. I agree with this but want to add some further thoughts. In your initial interactions, it was sexual. The romantic emotions especially commitment weren't there. Now you're in a situation of friendship. Once again the romantic emotions including commitment aren't there. His actions say, he's not ready for a serious relationship. His words say, he's not ready for a serious relationship. Both jive. Believe them.
Author audrey_1 Posted September 5, 2008 Author Posted September 5, 2008 DJ made some excellent points. So the question(s) remain, is this something you are truly okay with; will you be content/satisfied with what he is able to provide for the time being? Being that there is no fixed "for the time being", that makes it even more difficult. Yes, DJ has been my voice of reason lately... Sometimes I am okay with it, and sometimes I'm not. I understand his situation, and I question whether even I would want a serious relationship, if tomorrow he confessed he had real feelings for me and asked if we could give it a shot. I have always had commitment-phobic tendencies, and I'm wondering whether I just consider this a challenge to cure my sporadic boredom, which is just awful. I am volunteering and playing a league sport right now, in addition to work. I don't have a lot of time to pursue anything really serious, myself. But I just feel connected to him in my gut which really has a grip on me. I still am of the opinion that if a man likes a woman, he dates her. He doesn't "hang out" with her, he doesn't go weeks without seeing her or calling her. He doesn't go from a sexual relationship to a peck on the cheek when you drive away. Words are great. We all like to hear positive and pretty things. But actions mean a whole lot. He isn't committing to you in words at all; he has told you what he wants. And he surely isn't committing to you in actions. I think you put an awful lot of thought and energy into a friendship that is not a BF/GF thing. I know you hate hearing that, but I really think you need to rethink this entire thing. No, I don't hate hearing it. It hurts, but is the truth and why I'm struggling to free myself. I was charmed by him saying he had a crush on me all through elementary school. I was charmed by his visiting his grandmother, who lived down the street from us when we were kids, and him telling me it took enormous courage for him to invite me in for a glass of orange juice. (which I don't remember). I was charmed by him telling me I was his earliest recollection of what a beautiful girl looks like. I suppose these early admissions by him are what has kept my head in the game. But the lack of growth won't change, and he won't change. I need to hear it from objective observers. He said that relationships have never been a priority. He admitted that his exes have all had to drive the relationships, to make the contact, that it just isn't something he considers or is inclined to do. I'm not sure whether this stems from his shyness, or he's just not that interested. There may be no woman he digs enough to compel him to action. I am the only one who can decide to be a glutton for punishment, or to free myself. I post about it because I appreciate the candor I get in return, and so I don't think about it constantly, and so I don't have a fruitless "talk" with him that reveals my weakness. But if there's no hope for us, I have to accept responsibility for my part; in the beginning, he said "who knows what will become of us?" I was reluctant to let him in. I made it clear I was seeing other people and that I had just broken my engagement, so I wasn't looking for a relationship either. Whatever nonchalance he has displayed, I have mirrored. He told me a couple weeks ago that he cared about me. I was floored but put on my poker face and laughed it off. I'm sure if he did want something more with me, I have made it nearly impossible without him feeling his ego could possibly be crushed.
djhall Posted September 6, 2008 Posted September 6, 2008 Yes, DJ has been my voice of reason lately... Aww... thank you. So we've established that the man in question is an entrepreneur searching for the next big thing. In my experience, these people tend to be highly motivated and rewarded by work, often to the extent they are considered workaholics and their relationships often suffer accordingly. The ones I've known who also had good personal relationships approached them with that same level of motivation, drive, and determination to succeed. They may not have spent as much time on their relationships as most other people, but they put forward a lot more effort during that time than most. Simply put, they work hard, they play hard, and they love hard too. He said that relationships have never been a priority. He admitted that his exes have all had to drive the relationships, to make the contact, that it just isn't something he considers or is inclined to do. Uh oh. He isn't working on the next big thing yet, he hasn't "caught" you yet, and it appears you already aren't a priority! Based on the quote above, either you've brought this to his attention, or he is aware of it himself anyway. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to be a wake up call for him to step it up, because those statements are just another form of the classic, "Don't feel bad, its not you, its me... thats just the way I am." Imagine what would happen if a customer of his "next big thing" complained that they didn't feel he was working hard enough to get their orders filled. Do youu think he would tell them, "Filling orders has never really been a priority for me. All my customers have to drive their orders and keep making contact to get them filled. It just isn't something I consider or am normally inclined to do." If so, he is going to be a bankrupt entrepreneur fast! He'd probably throw himself headlong into moving heaven and earth to get orders shipped so fast the delivery man was knocking on the door practically before they hung up the phone! Are you the kind of person who is going to be content to sit back, watch him throw himself at his work, and chase him when you want attention from him? He may want you, but it looks like he may need you to make that a priority for him. What is going to change? I see work getting to be more of a priority down the raod and not less. I see you getting to be less of a priority down the road and not more. It shouldn't be that way, but most women find their man is less attentive after he "catches" them than before. Are you going to change? Is this going to be an issue now, but no big deal later on if he commits on paper but keeps acting the same way? I'm just going from what you have said in a couple posts, but I would suggest you seriously consider if any of this is really likely to change for the better in the forseeable future. If not, then seriously consider if you are going to be happy with him if nothing changes except his work situation. You might not like the answers. there is no doubt we're attracted to one another . . . I climbed beneath a waterfall and sat there with the water crashing down on me. I think I saw a bulge in his pants. There are a lot of potentially complicated considerations in this scenario, and it could have been a particularly beautiful waterfall. I'n order to objectively verify this statement, we are going to need you to post some pictures.
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