Author Noos Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 I don't see this as backwards at all. I see a close friend who took advantage of my trust in him, lied to me, and manipulated me. A lot of you are missing the point. I'm not mad that I had sex with him, I'm made that he wasn't really present when he said he was. It's the lies, lack of integrity and making me feel worthless that hurts.
Trialbyfire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I don't see this as backwards at all. I see a close friend who took advantage of my trust in him, lied to me, and manipulated me. A lot of you are missing the point. I'm not mad that I had sex with him, I'm made that he wasn't really present when he said he was. It's the lies, lack of integrity and making me feel worthless that hurts. What did he say to make you feel that he was present? Did he say things like he loved you, that you were the one, that he considered the two of you in a relationship?
Author Noos Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 He said he told himself that if anything ever happened between us, he wanted it to be serious and he wanted to have time for it. I said that he had time for Emily last year (I think she was his FWB) and he told me that he cared for me sooo much more than Emily - that it was a different thing. After we slept together, he kept contacting me and I questioned him about the dating thing - he rang me several times to tell me it was because of his lack of time, not because he didn't like me anymore. The whole time he was doing that, he was seeing this other girl and taking her to things like his water polo black tie dinner. It's strange but it seems many of you wouldn't trust your close friends with your feelingsor expect them to be honest and would totally expect them to come onto you for casual sex rather than because they cared for you. What's THAT about??????
Trialbyfire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 A close friend is no longer a close friend if they hit on you. Did you not read the part about self-interest? As for what he said, yes, those are leading statements but with nothing concrete that discusses the now, that he's actually invested. Noos, you've filled in the blanks with what you wanted him to feel. You were all in, where he was still at the starting line. Pretty words are easy. Pretty words are only meaningful if his actions mesh.
Trialbyfire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Noos, have you ever read the billions of threads about guys trying to get into girls' pants by getting close to them, as "friends"? I think you should, to hammer this home to you. You really, really need to learn that people say all kinds of things that aren't true, for reasons of self-interest. Hell, it happens on LS all the time, people lying outright about themselves nvm being ambiguous. I've had guys tell me all kinds of things, even that they loved me, were in love with me, the entire enchilada....but...when push came to shove, actions didn't mesh with pretty words. When this happens, you have to step back and assess. You'll find that many times, it's only pretty words for the purposes of self-interest. It means that you have to learn to guard yourself a lot better. You're no victim, so it's time to take charge of your life. It really is a cruel, cruel world out there, if you wear your heart on your sleeve. This doesn't mean you have to throw up 8 foot walls around your heart, allowing no one in. Just take your time and be careful, before leaping in with both feet.
Untouchable_Fire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Shouldn't the onus be on the person who initiates the intimacy? It's your body... that means it's your responsibility. If he lied straight out that's one thing, but here you just believed something without asking. Next time... make sure your in a relationship before you jump into the sack with someone.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 As for what he said, yes, those are leading statements but with nothing concrete that discusses the now, that he's actually invested. She says, "He told me he was too busy to date me at present and if he had time, he'd want it to be serious." It has a lot of tactful padding but is nothing more than, "We aren't dating at present and I'm not serious yet but might be in the future... blah, blah, blah, work and busy to make it go over better." If you think about it, what he is saying really doesn't make any sense any other way. We're close friends and lovers, but since I'm really busy we aren't dating yet, we just have a commited relationship where we aren't dating each other and we aren't dating anyone else either because that is much better than us dating and you understanding the demands of my schedule?
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 It's strange but it seems many of you wouldn't trust your close friends with your feelings or expect them to be honest and would totally expect them to come onto you for casual sex rather than because they cared for you. What's THAT about?????? I trust my close friends with my feelings, but for me that is the major factor in determining if we are close or just casual friends. Of course, the number of people I consider close friends is very small for just that reason. Because I trust them with my feelings, I expect my close friends to be honest with me for the most part. People are human, imperfect, and prone to moments of weakness, so I give people a little lattitude in the sense that I won't easily accept you looking me in the eye and flat out lying to my face, but if you are hemming and hawing and qualifying and dancing around the subject like a ballerina, I know I've hit an area where you don't want to be open or honest with me and usually that in itself is enough information for my purposes without forcing the issue. As for casual sex, I don't see that as an issue one way or the other. For me, the only real issue is whether we are both clear on what we expect afterward, since I don't want a close friendship to be damaged or destroyed over a situation like the one you are in. Perhaps my perspective is different than many since I have a close female friend with whom I have been sexually involved off and on since we were teenagers. Neither of us has ever expected or desired any sexual or romantic commitment whatsoever, so in that sense we have "casual" sex. On the other hand, our friendship has been longer and stronger than most of our relationships so I have a hard time dismissing what we have as "casual" in that respect.
KinAZ Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 He said he told himself that if anything ever happened between us, he wanted it to be serious and he wanted to have time for it. I said that he had time for Emily last year (I think she was his FWB) and he told me that he cared for me sooo much more than Emily - that it was a different thing. After we slept together, he kept contacting me and I questioned him about the dating thing - he rang me several times to tell me it was because of his lack of time, not because he didn't like me anymore. The whole time he was doing that, he was seeing this other girl and taking her to things like his water polo black tie dinner. It's strange but it seems many of you wouldn't trust your close friends with your feelingsor expect them to be honest and would totally expect them to come onto you for casual sex rather than because they cared for you. What's THAT about?????? As I've said before, and as others have said... sometimes a guy will be friends with someone in hopes of one day making his way into her undies. Sometimes it is in the hopes of one day forming a relationship, but those relationship signs need to be there first just as with any other man. I'm not going to say that he didn't take advantage, as if he only wanted sex there was no need for him to keep on about liking you, if not to talk you into something you wouldn't do if he asked very plainly. At the same time, just because a man likes you doesn't mean he wants a relationship. Just because a man says the word "serious" doesn't mean he ever intends to show it if he hasn't ALREADY started. I see men who "like me" every day too, but like me how? In what way? For what purpose? That's just not specific enough. I've had friends who tried, and whether they were sincere or just after what they could get (yes, whispering sweet NOTHINGS), they weren't close friends, if even friends at all, after that. The word "serious" doesn't make the intent serious. This guy would need to be taking you to these functions as his date. He would need to be taking you on dates in general. And considering you two were already friends, he would probably be expressing a desire for you to not date other people and for you to be with him. More than likely, he would go above and beyond to be of service to you when he can. "Need me to come by and take a look at your refrigerator" just because he knows it's giving you trouble, without you needing to ask him. He'll try to extend his role in your life, not merely say things... And when women fall for it, they say "Oh, she should have known better." That doesn't make it right, but it should be a learning experience, at least...
Trialbyfire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 She says, "He told me he was too busy to date me at present and if he had time, he'd want it to be serious." It has a lot of tactful padding but is nothing more than, "We aren't dating at present and I'm not serious yet but might be in the future... blah, blah, blah, work and busy to make it go over better." If you think about it, what he is saying really doesn't make any sense any other way. We're close friends and lovers, but since I'm really busy we aren't dating yet, we just have a commited relationship where we aren't dating each other and we aren't dating anyone else either because that is much better than us dating and you understanding the demands of my schedule? I wouldn't even interpret it that far. If anything, my interpretation in Noos shoes, would be "Sorry, but you don't rate my time". Noos, I'm not saying these things to hurt you. Most women have been in your shoes before, myself included. We all learn that someone who isn't going to prioritize you and even deprioritize you, doesn't have good investment potential. Keep in mind that I don't think it's solely one person's responsibility to be honest and forthright. But...realistically speaking, you can't rely on a guy who you're not in a relationship with, to protect your interests.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I think a lot of people will be dishonest by omission....but are more liable to balk at giving an outright lie when asked a direct question. That is part of it, but the other part is that what people mean when they do or say something is what they mean, not what you or someone else would mean if you did the same thing. For example, if we went out on a half-a-dozen dates, we had sex on our last date, and then I introduced you to a friend and told him we were dating and it is getting kinda serious, what would that mean? For I were my brother that would mean we are getting married, since he wouldn't have sex with anyone he wasn't committed to marrying. Depending on the person, it could mean you are exclusive boyfriend/girlfriend, you are dating exclusively, you are dating other people but exclusive sexually, you are still dating and sleeping with other people but heading toward being exclusive, you dating and sleeping with other people and probably not ever going to be exclusive but having a seriously good time, or any number of other things. To assume that it means what you think it means, or to trust a someone to know what you think it means and clarify for you if it doesn't, is to set yourself up to feel mislead or lied to but unable to objectively blame the other person.
Angel1111 Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I don't see this as backwards at all. I see a close friend who took advantage of my trust in him, lied to me, and manipulated me. A lot of you are missing the point. I'm not mad that I had sex with him, I'm made that he wasn't really present when he said he was. It's the lies, lack of integrity and making me feel worthless that hurts. I agree that he acted irresponsibly and you had every reason to believe that he would understand the consequences of toying with you and your friendship in such a way. This is basic Friendship 101 - he's either obtuse or callous. There's not a person in this world who doesn't know that sleeping with a friend is a serious step. This is why people have to be self-protective, because assuming that others think like we do will get us hurt. I made the mistake once of thinking that a particular man wouldn't do certain things unless he was dead serious about me and I was dead wrong. I'll never make that mistake again. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Treasa Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 My boyfriend would never have sex with someone unless he was in a committed relationship with them. Other guys just use girls. It's not fair to characterize a gender. My solution? I don't sleep with a guy unless I'm in the kind of situation I want with him and trust him fully.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 My boyfriend would never have sex with someone unless he was in a committed relationship with them. Other guys just use girls. It's not fair to characterize a gender. Was that intentional, or did it just slip past you unnoticed?
Treasa Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Some guys won't have sex unless in a relationship. Other guys just use girls. Same with girls. It's not fair to generalize a gender.
Kamille Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Honestly, I think what he did was misleading and I can see why you feel hurt and betrayed. I doubt he did it consciously though. One possible answer to your thread title question is: He assumed you were up for some casual sex. I agree with the posters who say his "would want a relationship just not now" should have been interpreted as " If anything happens between us, it's casual". So, when you went for it, he assumed you were up for a little FWB action. I bet he doesn't see why you feel hurt over it?
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Some guys won't have sex unless in a relationship. Other guys just use girls. Same with girls. It's not fair to generalize a gender. Much better.... its so typical of women to try to stereotype men like that.
Kamille Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Much better.... its so typical of women to try to stereotype men like that. :lmao::lmao: sigh [rereads] :lmao::lmao:
Treasa Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 To be fair, this post WAS about men doing it. I was addressing that point specifically.
Treasa Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Actually, wait a minute...what was wrong with what I originally said?
Trialbyfire Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Treasa, I read the same into what you wrote that djhall read. There was some serious irony in commenting on generalization, when you also generalized all other men besides your b/f. An unfortunate choice of words more than the actual sentiment you were attempting to express. As for generalizing men, there's no doubt that every guy who asks a woman out, wants to get into her pants. Without this element of physical attraction, they wouldn't be pursuing the woman. It's up to the woman to filter out the guys who solely want to do her, if she wants more from a guy. Some women only want to get physical, which makes the entire situation fine.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Actually, wait a minute...what was wrong with what I originally said? Now I'm confused. Who said there was something wrong with what you originally said? If you are talking about me, I just thought it was funny that you said a generalization about all men except your boyfriend right before you said it wasn't fair to generalize a gender. We all tend to do it, and I actually wondered if you had done it intentionally as humor for anyone paying close enough attention. Then I just had to be a smartass and do the same thing with stereotype because without a little wordplay I feel like people are just using me for my mind.
vonerik012 Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 The thread is confusing. Are you asking about your boyfriend? Or men in general? You were friends with him for 16 months? Or he was pursuing you for 16 months? I doubt he was pursuing you for 16 months , or acting like your friend for 16 months just to have sex one time.
djhall Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 You were friends with him for 16 months? Or he was pursuing you for 16 months? I doubt he was pursuing you for 16 months , or acting like your friend for 16 months just to have sex one time. I wondered this too. I have a hard time believing he pursued her for almost a year and a half just to hit it once. On the other hand, if you are really are close friends the line between being together as friends and being together to "pursue" being more than friends really isn't all that different.
vonerik012 Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I guess if they were "friends" who spent time together, he would have made a move quicker than waiting a year and a half. Maybe they were just casual acquaintances. It doesn't sound like they were friends in the true meaning of the word. I never was friends with a girl to hope I could have sex with her, so it is odd to me. The line would be difficult for me to blur.
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