Snowballing is hot but A2M is degrading?

[jerbear]

wow, I didn't expect to see so much controversy about ATM aka A2M and snowballing.

 

You know, I'm a guy and it was a gal who first introduce that or did those two acts on me. Those two acts normally would have been weird to me. I would not have initiated it because I thought ATM was dirty and increases infection for her. As a guy I would have been disgusted with snowballing or be ewww. But...

 

I got introduced to those two acts by an ex. It was she that initiated it not me. What we did was have nights where she got to do whatever she wants and another night where it was the other way around. In other words, if she enjoyed A2M she'll tell me or in my case, she took the lead. Talk about being open and vulnerable.

 

I don't get the hang ups when both people consent. I've already gave her consent to do whatever she wanted, till an agreed upon code word is said. If the word is said, we stop and move on to another act AND DON"T go back to it .

 

If someone wanted intimacy, sparks, or passion; fulfilling a taboo or fantasy or letting the other try something is kinda hot. I don't know if this ideal agrees with everyone, but I'll say it. If you a guy helps a gal fulfill a fantasy or something she wanted to try or; guess what? boys and girls... you'll probably going to get her to orgasm without doing a thing. She'll come back for more, if not at least you both have memories.

[djhall]

I never said porn invented these things. But I do think porn normalizes them... And I don't think it's healthy.

 

JS - Can you exaborate on why you think it is generally unhealthy? The reason I am asking is, the church enviroment I was raised in pretty much villified everything other than plan vanilla, penile/vaginal, in your bedroom sex between a married couple as deviant and morally unacceptable. As I understand it "traditional" American sexual attitudes were considered to be fairly similar.

 

I assume most of the other sexual activities that the "mainstream" now commonly practice and enjoy are a result of the normalizing influence of porn from the last several decades. Is the prevalance of oral sex unhealthy? Anal sex? Light bondage? Blindfolds? Vibrators? Positions other than missionary? If those were deviant and unhealthy in the past, but now mainstream and healthy due to normalization from porn, why do you think the continuation of that trend is unhealthy? Or do you think I am way off in my assumption that porn normalized these activities too?

[Dirk Diggler]

you'll probably going to get her to orgasm without doing a thing. She'll come back for more, if not at least you both have memories.

 

Very true statement here. Also taken with what Jilly Bean had said regarding interests changing over time vs open/closed mindedness. It could turn out she takes a great interest in something new. (Especially if a good orgasm comes from it!) pretty much seals the deal.

 

Now I always complimented my girlfriend on how she had such a great ass during sex, fast forward in time to her now really enjoying anal based on our expanding the bedroom playbook (mutual). Why? Basically like you stated above, she has the most violent orgasms from combined Vaginal/Anal sex. Pretty much leaves you feeling like a king (and her wanting more)

 

That said Jersey Shortie. Now. after i've met her sexual needs aka (giving her an powerful orgasm) i think i've earned the right to ejaculate on her face, or paint a white stripe down her back, whatever. Why should there be strict laws and penalties governing my load and it's delivery!?

[marlena]

I didn't read this thread and so I am going strictly by the OP's first post.

 

Fluids are passed between partners all the time. That's sex! What's so diffirent about this if both people like it?

 

Sorry, I just don't get what all the commotion is about!

[Jersey Shortie]

Regardless if porn influences many men, sex is a primal act. But just because missionary Mary wants to be a complete prude and disguise her words under the veil of being unsanitary or demoralizing, she certainly enjoyed having her pussy eaten and or being told how great it tastes. But when the scenario is reversed it becomes a porn influenced taboo tragedy, thus that she refuses to take a load in the face/mouth to share in the experience!? I think that's rather one sided.

 

Missionary Mary.

 

Aside from that, sex is a primal act but I do question how much porn does infact influence men's expectations on many levels. I don't think that is an unfair question. Especially in a time in history where we have it in our homes like never before. And since porn comes from a place of disconnect and cold sex and a place where women aren't much more then three holes, I don't know if it's exactly good.

 

The truth is, some sexual acts are meant to be demoralizing. Is that right or wrong? I don't know to be honest. But I know when I have been exposed to porn of a woman having sex, I think over all she is being used as nothing but a cum deposit. And as a woman, that hurts to see. Do I expect men to respond the same way? Not any more. And that also hurts.

 

I am not of the mindset that anything between two people goes. I'm not that politically correct when it comes to sex and have my own ideas on why people like sex acts on a pyschological level. The irony is that porn is so not politically correct yet I'm suppose to be politically correct and all accepting and understanding of what men want from women on a sexual level? And if I'm not, I'm a "prude". Please.

 

In the context of porn, where the two people don't care about each other, where it's ready avilable to the public, where it is about power, domination and degradtion sometimes, as a woman, I am often conflicted as where we stand with men. You can't blame me for questioning that. And taking it further that when men ask of me to do certain sexual acts, it puts me in a precarious position about his intentions behind wanting to do such acts.

 

 

So my point is, so what if porn is an influence or not? If your mind is closed already. Sex is basically boring with such women. Further more these women are never happy, where as women whom are real showstoppers in bed are right into ATM etc etc, or don't complain if being thrown something new and don't go off on this porn (jealousy) tangent. Get over it.

 

That's great advice if I didn't have a brain or any needs or desires of my own. But as a real live breathing woman, I do. The kind of situation you described reminds me of the basic idea of most pornos. Where the woman is up for anything, are showstoppers and get pleasure out of making men happy. I'm not a prude, but I am a human being. You're advice to "get over it", tells me you don't care to understand though. So I digress for now on this.

 

That said Jersey Shortie. Now. after i've met her sexual needs aka (giving her an powerful orgasm) i think i've earned the right to ejaculate on her face, or paint a white stripe down her back, whatever. Why should there be strict laws and penalties governing my load and it's delivery!?

 

You've earned the right to nothing. You should be thankful for what she wants to give you in return. And if she wants you to ejaculate on her face, more power to you. But I said my thoughts on this and I find it a little disconnerting the amount of men lately that want more porny like sex. Especially when the argument use to be, "its just fantasy, men don't really want that". But the fact that you made her orgasm isn't some kind of payment you make so that you can in turn put your load wherever you want. The whole idea that if I have an orgasm with a man I owe him something is ridiculous, cold and selfish.

 

 

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JS - Can you exaborate on why you think it is generally unhealthy?

 

I'm not opposed to kinky activities in the bedroom. I just don't think that everything we want sexually is healthy. Or the mediums we have that present sexuality are always healthy. And my experience lately is men requesting more porn-like sexual acts. As a woman, that leaves me conflicted. Especially because I think porn is overall degrading to women. And it leaves me conflicted to what men think about women and how they want to treat them and how much porn does infact influence men. I also have done alot of research on trying to understand men and porn and I have read porn directors themselves saying they keep having to come up with more hardcores stuff to please the viewers. How much do we push the envelop before it's too much? Are we already at that point? Is it ever enough? 50 years from now what is going to be out there that is going to be "normal" sexual acts? I don't think everything we want sexually is healthy. Exploring your sexuality is wonderful, exploiting it is a different can of worms in my opinion.

 

 

I assume most of the other sexual activities that the "mainstream" now commonly practice and enjoy are a result of the normalizing influence of porn from the last several decades. Is the prevalance of oral sex unhealthy? Anal sex? Light bondage? Blindfolds? Vibrators? Positions other than missionary? If those were deviant and unhealthy in the past, but now mainstream and healthy due to normalization from porn, why do you think the continuation of that trend is unhealthy? Or do you think I am way off in my assumption that porn normalized these activities too?

 

I am sure porn normalized those actitives as well. The reason I think the continuation of that trend is unhealthy is because pushing the envelop can be both good and harmful. The thing is, most people only want to look at the good and prove their point that it's a wonderful thing. While there is good in us having such freedom in sexual expression, there is also alot of bad. And no one wants to discuss or take responsiblity for the bad or weigh it against the good, if the good is really worth the bad. If I eat a peice of cheesecake it's really good, but if I keep eating cheesecake everyday, and then add whip cream, and then add melted chocolate, I will become fat.

 

Each year a little more innocence is lost. Kids are less innocent in younger generations then I was, I was less innocent then in my parents generation. I don't think I consider the continuation of such a trend completely progressive but largly corruptive. Technology is wonderful. The internet is wonderful. But with technology, making our lives easier in many ways, it also makes are lives more complicated. I think the volume and easy access that we have to porn is harmful. All the visual imagery and expectations are damanging. This is a new issue in our society. Little boys and girls are exposed to porn sooner. Men are spending more time looking at porn then ever before. I think it has and is effecting male female relationships and dynamics.

 

DJ, might I add that I really like the dialogue you've been opening up in the forums and you are able to discuss things very intelligently without putting anyone down even if you disagree! Good job!

[LionLover]

Wow Jersey, that's a lot of something something on the issue.

 

IDK, I'm pretty adventurous in certain aspects & there's a zillion things I've wanted to try but certain things I would only do with someone I trusted completely. Some of the things mentioned on here I would def not do unless I was married because I think some things are best saved for that sort of thing, it would def not be something I would do in a casual context.

[Jersey Shortie]

I'm the poster child for carpel tunnel.

[LionLover]

Well you made some very discerning points nonetheless.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, lol.

[djhall]

And since porn comes from a place of disconnect and cold sex and a place where women aren't much more then three holes, I don't know if it's exactly good.

...

But I know when I have been exposed to porn of a woman having sex, I think over all she is being used as nothing but a cum deposit. And as a woman, that hurts to see.

...

In the context of porn, where the two people don't care about each other, where it's ready avilable to the public, where it is about power, domination and degradtion sometimes, as a woman, I am often conflicted as where we stand with men.

 

Jersey, thank you for your thoughful responses. I notice that your comments on pornography convey the message that porn is primarily degrading to women. In a typical porn scenario, if the woman is just 3 holes and a cum deposit, is the man any more than a random penis and ejaculation? Shouldn't the man be just as degraded as the woman? It seems stereotypical to say that a woman who is willing to accept any penis in the area regardless of emotion is being degraded while a man who is willing to stick his in any hole in the area regardless of emotion is just being a man.

 

Where the woman is up for anything, are showstoppers and get pleasure out of making men happy.

Again, I think I understand the sentiment, but turned around gender wise this sound kinda strange. Where the man is up for anything, is a showstopper, and gets pleasure out of making women happy... sounds like a pretty darn good thing to me, yet you see it as such a negative from the other gender.

 

How much do we push the envelop before it's too much? Are we already at that point? Is it ever enough? 50 years from now what is going to be out there that is going to be "normal" sexual acts?

I really don't know the anwer to this, and that is a lot of the reason I like intelligent dialog like this. I think some has been great. Too much might be bad. Were do we draw the line? I don't know. If in 100 years the notions of sexual exclusivity, sexual jealousy, and sexual propriety were entirely eliminated and people just had any kind of sex they desired with any person who was willing anywhere they wanted, would that be a wonderful thing or a terrible nightmare?

 

If I eat a peice of cheesecake it's really good, but if I keep eating cheesecake everyday, and then add whip cream, and then add melted chocolate, I will become fat.

I would prefer to think of sex as more like love in this respect. Love is good, and if I keep loving everyday, the then add love, and more love, then love just keeps getting better the more we add. I would like to believe that sex is that way too.

 

I think the volume and easy access that we have to porn is harmful. All the visual imagery and expectations are damanging. This is a new issue in our society. Little boys and girls are exposed to porn sooner. Men are spending more time looking at porn then ever before. I think it has and is effecting male female relationships and dynamics.

I agree with you, at the very least to the extent that ready access to pornography has changed the relative value of a live human partner. If porn were virtually non-existent, I think an ordinary, imperfect, live human parter with human needs would be more valuable to many than the same partner in a world were there is instant and effortless access to extensive amounts of high quality porn depicting any and every person imaginable engaging in any and every sexual activity imaginable, with no human needs to accomodate. I think that effect is currently being seen in couples where one partner prefers porn to actual sex with their partner and in people who want relationships to be like porn and just retreat back to porn fuled fantasies and self-stimulation when relationships become more like a relationship and less like a hook-up.

 

DJ, might I add that I really like the dialogue you've been opening up in the forums and you are able to discuss things very intelligently without putting anyone down even if you disagree! Good job!

Thank you, and I will say the same about you. Arguing, insulting, and insisting is a drag, but reasonable and logical give and take of ideas is something I really enjoy for the opportunity to understand other peoples' thought pocesses, to see how they respond to my ideas, and see how their ideas in turn influence my own.

[Jersey Shortie]

I notice that your comments on pornography convey the message that porn is primarily degrading to women. In a typical porn scenario, if the woman is just 3 holes and a cum deposit, is the man any more than a random penis and ejaculation? Shouldn't the man be just as degraded as the woman? It seems stereotypical to say that a woman who is willing to accept any penis in the area regardless of emotion is being degraded while a man who is willing to stick his in any hole in the area regardless of emotion is just being a man.

 

I think men are degraded also. I actually think porn takes away something from men, and doesn't add any value in making a man more of a "man", or how a man should be defined. But I do think the way men are degraded in porn is different then how women are degraded. Plus, most porn is for men and by men. Most porn focuses on what is happening to the woman, what her body looks like, how she performs. There isn't the same standard in there for a man. A man isn't being judged the same way because the men that are watching it are watching it for the woman, not that man, in most cases. When a woman in a porn video is giving a man head, it always seems to me as an act of sexuality and subservience. When a man is giving women oral pleasure, I don't get the impression that it's the same. I don't think most men think less of a man that will stick his dick into anything that is female like they think less of a female for letting any guy stick his dick into her. Men don't respect the women in porn and make up names to call them while getting pleasure from them. But I rarely hear men refer to the men in porn with the same degrading comments I hear them refer to the women. As a woman, how am I suppose to trust that men value women?

 

 

Again, I think I understand the sentiment, but turned around gender wise this sound kinda strange. Where the man is up for anything, is a showstopper, and gets pleasure out of making women happy... sounds like a pretty darn good thing to me, yet you see it as such a negative from the other gender.

 

Between two people in a relationship, I don't conside rit a negative either. I get alot of pleasure out of pleasing my partner. But when it comes to something as disconnected and detached as porn, it's of a different context. Men don't pleasure women in porn because they care about that woman's pleasure. Men do it because of their own egos. In the context of porn, I am talking about. It's not sincere. A womans' orgasm in porn is over extravagated. Everything about a woman in porn is over the top. that's a man's fantasy, not the reality of how women are pleasured. So it tells me it's less about really giving awoman pleasure and more about feeding his ego that he is "the best" that he gave someone an orgasm.

 

 

...and sexual propriety were entirely eliminated and people just had any kind of sex they desired with any person who was willing anywhere they wanted, would that be a wonderful thing or a terrible nightmare?

 

Aren't we kind of at that point now? People randomly hook up alot more now. Are we any more happy now then in the old days? I think people end up feeling more disconnected then connected personally. Even men.

 

 

I would prefer to think of sex as more like love in this respect. Love is good, and if I keep loving everyday, the then add love, and more love, then love just keeps getting better the more we add. I would like to believe that sex is that way too.

 

Between two people with a relationship, I would agree. But my reference was on sex for the sake of sex and not for the sake of love and respect. We have this weird idea where we condemn people who over eat but we praise people who over indulge in sex even when it's porn or random hook ups. At least for men we do. But I liken porn to me eating cheesecake, and then adding whip cream..and so on. If I ate that everyday I would be a pig. If people look at porn everday, over indulging, mentally that does something to you. How could it not.

 

 

If porn were virtually non-existent, I think an ordinary, imperfect, live human parter with human needs would be more valuable to many than the same partner in a world were there is instant and effortless access to extensive amounts of high quality porn depicting any and every person imaginable engaging in any and every sexual activity imaginable, with no human needs to accomodate. I think that effect is currently being seen in couples where one partner prefers porn to actual sex with their partner and in people who want relationships to be like porn and just retreat back to porn fuled fantasies and self-stimulation when relationships become more like a relationship and less like a hook-up.

 

That's how I see it. It's hard to be more exciting then the 10 different brunettes , blondes and redheads you can view everyday doing crazy stuff.

[vonerik012]

Jersey, I do agree with you on this topic.

 

However, feminism, and even online dating add to it, not just porn.

 

Women give sex easily nowadays. They are sexually more free, and men take full advantage of this. And through online dating men can have a different type of woman every night of the week. Older, younger, skinnier,taller , shorter, large breasted, black, white, asian etc.

[Jersey Shortie]

I never said women give sex too easily now-a-days. So I am not sure what you think you are agreeing with with me. And if men could really have a different type of woman every day of the week in reality, I think there would be less sad, lonely bitter men. I know for a fact dating is harder for men then women.

[vonerik012]

The type of men most women find attractive can have a different woman every night. Not all men.

[rod_in_gtown]

if men could really have a different type of woman every day of the week in reality, I think there would be less sad, lonely bitter men.

 

Ain't that the truth!

[Jersey Shortie]

We get it. Men want variety and women are interchangable. Thank you.

[rod_in_gtown]

We get it. Men want variety and women are interchangable. Thank you.

 

Hmm, not sure if that was directed at me or not, but by the same token women would also be getting variety and men would be interchangeable... I think you're being argumentative but that's neither here nor there.

 

My point was, if more men were sexually satisfied, then there would be less bitter and lonely old men around I was not making a mysoginistic comment at women's expense.

[Dirk Diggler]

Missionary Mary.

 

Aside from that, sex is a primal act but I do question how much porn does infact influence men's expectations on many levels. I don't think that is an unfair question. Especially in a time in history where we have it in our homes like never before. And since porn comes from a place of disconnect and cold sex and a place where women aren't much more then three holes, I don't know if it's exactly good.

 

The truth is, some sexual acts are meant to be demoralizing. Is that right or wrong? I don't know to be honest. But I know when I have been exposed to porn of a woman having sex, I think over all she is being used as nothing but a cum deposit. And as a woman, that hurts to see. Do I expect men to respond the same way? Not any more. And that also hurts.

 

You are pinning your personal issues here on men, and mentally putting them in cock shackles of your own creation. How do you know if guys are taking cues form porn? Or porn corrupts all who watch it into having shady motives to degrade women. News flash princess, most all men look at porn to some degree. Even more to the point how do YOU know all this about porn unless you've been watching/immersing yourself in it, then conducting your own little personal pornographic studies.

 

If you want lights out, under the sheets, missionary sex. That's fine. But to say anything beyond that is basically cues taken from a favorite porn is just stupid. So if your boyfriend was turned on by letting a load go in your mouth/face, you set up a cock blockade because you though he was degrading you based on porno's? Really this is a dirty game, if you get your orgasm then deprive your boyfriend of that enjoyment.

 

This one sided flipping out against men is what makes you a prude when it comes to sex.

[djhall]

Jersey Shortie, I've been thinking about what you've said about porn and its influence... a lot of things I can't fully agree with, especially when I consider the huge range of female/female, male/male, female humiliating male, transexual/male, and other types of porn that have no real male dominating female power dynamics (though stuff like the series that calls itself "meat holes" would certainly be exactly what you describe).

 

Would it be somewhat accurate to say that your hostility toward porn and its influence is mainly due to the belief that porn has made sexual activity in general less connected with intimacy, more acceptable when engaged in for purely selfish reasons, and more commonly expected in the absence of an established relationship?

[sweetbutcheeky]

Sorry about all the confusion the acronyms and terms seem to be causing. I was trying to avoid being too "explicit" and figured if you had a decent working knowledge of the term and acronym then you couldn't be too offended by the topic.

 

So what does A2M mean? LOL