Art_Critic Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Art Critic, I never said porn invented these things. But I do think porn normalizes them. the amount that is around today also changes the equation. I've had experiences where it does seem men are getting more extreme in their tastes. And I don't think it's healthy. I've been dating men, have you? I think that maybe the openness we have with the acts and the openness we have today thru talk might do more for normalizing them than porn. 15 years ago there were no webpages or forums where people could go to talk about anal sex , ATM, feltching or whatever... also there were no places where people could cross reference their experiences like there are today.. Look at us on LS today.. talking about ATM and anal sex.. This type of public talk was unheard of 15 years ago and our talks today are desensitizing us and normalizing the acts some.
SnapCracklePop Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 I would also like to add, American pornography has paled compared to Japanese AV films. The Japanese made rope bondage quite popular. Also they're the epitome of bukkake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukkake) and rape. I was going to mention this actually... before I ever heard the term snowballing, I saw a japanese "soft core" thing late one night where they did the same motion, but with an egg yolk.
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 I dunno. When I have asked guys to do it, and they get all squeamish, I always got the feeling that they felt it was somehow tapping into some homosexual taboo. Maybe we should ask the dudes here... I think you nailed the biggest part of it right there. As I see it there are two separate issues. One is the basic taste/texture kind of objection... which is a little hard to justify if you want her to take a mouthful of it but think it is too awful to be willing to get any in yours. The other issue is the psychological aversion... a mouth full of sperm typically comes from having a penis in your mouth, so if I like a mouth full of sperm does that mean I'm one step away from liking a penis in my mouth? Maybe its also just a difference between the way men and women think... for those of you who know your man finds it sexy when you do V2M, would it bother you if he confided that part of the reason he finds it sexy is the thought that if you don't mind the taste of your own then maybe you wouldn't mind the taste of someone else's and that idea gets him hot? I'm not saying all men think that way all the time, but I'm pretty sure just about every guy who's had a girl do that has thought about it at least once. If your mind worked like his mind, you'd snowballing him and thinking, "damn he looks hot with a mouthfull of sperm... and so close to sucking another guys cock... so close!"... which would really freak him out unless he was into that kind of thing. Since guys are typically very sensitive and insecure when it comes to anything that might be considered homoerotic, there could also be a lot of vulnerability in participating in this. Something goes wrong, you make fun of him, tell all his friends he gets off on eating sperm, and he never lives down the rap as a closet sissyboy.
Jilly Bean Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 I will be corrected by the well-informed and educated. Well, then you're welcome for showing you the light! I am glad I was able to educate you properly. Seems like everyone else on this thread seems to be on the same page as me with our understanding of the topic. X - the Japanese are notorious for some VERY hardcore and aggressive porn. Did you know that most of the women in the videos are forced into it from Japanese gangs? Yep. They do have some of the heavier types of porn - all the brown shower activity, the girls being forced to swallow their own diarrhea, etc. That's the kind of thing one generally does, even for a hit of crack... (no pun intended - lol).
Jilly Bean Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 I think you nailed the biggest part of it right there. As I see it there are two separate issues. One is the basic taste/texture kind of objection... which is a little hard to justify if you want her to take a mouthful of it but think it is too awful to be willing to get any in yours. The other issue is the psychological aversion... a mouth full of sperm typically comes from having a penis in your mouth, so if I like a mouth full of sperm does that mean I'm one step away from liking a penis in my mouth? Maybe its also just a difference between the way men and women think... for those of you who know your man finds it sexy when you do V2M, would it bother you if he confided that part of the reason he finds it sexy is the thought that if you don't mind the taste of your own then maybe you wouldn't mind the taste of someone else's and that idea gets him hot? I'm not saying all men think that way all the time, but I'm pretty sure just about every guy who's had a girl do that has thought about it at least once. If your mind worked like his mind, you'd snowballing him and thinking, "damn he looks hot with a mouthfull of sperm... and so close to sucking another guys cock... so close!"... which would really freak him out unless he was into that kind of thing. Since guys are typically very sensitive and insecure when it comes to anything that might be considered homoerotic, there could also be a lot of vulnerability in participating in this. Something goes wrong, you make fun of him, tell all his friends he gets off on eating sperm, and he never lives down the rap as a closet sissyboy. Yes, that's what I suspected, DJ. The few men I have been with who were willing to engage in cum play were EXTREMELY open-minded, and the most sexually versed of any men I had ever been with. OK, call them dirty boys - lol. But, to answer your question, if a guy told me that he liked me going V2M because he felt it got me a step closer to being with a woman, or that it signified that I would LIKE to be with a woman, the activity would have to stop, I'm afraid. I certainly would not want to encourage this as a later option... I find snowballing with a guy hot because it IS so taboo. In some odd way, I see it as him being a little submissive, and on some level, a way to see how far he is willing to go to please me, or turn me on. Again, these are thoughts that come to mind DURING sex. Once out of the bedroom, I wouldn't be looking at him crosswise. So, I think you're right about a guy feeling very vulnerable in that situation. A lot more than a woman would, but again, that's because lesbian activity is lot more accepted than homosexuality in the mainstream.
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 I find snowballing with a guy hot because it IS so taboo. In some odd way, I see it as him being a little submissive, and on some level, a way to see how far he is willing to go to please me, or turn me on. Which is exactly what struck me about the original thread and prompted this one... the difference between taboo or disgusting, a little submissive or degrading, willing to go far to please or doormat to be used, seems to me to be less abot the act itself than how the people involved feel about the act, which makes saying, act X is degrading or humiliating kind of hard for me to grasp. What about those guys who pay a lot of money to dominatrixes to humiliate them and tell them how inadequate they are because it turns them on... if they find a partner who humiliates and degrades them, is it humiliating and degrading, or loving and respectful of their partner's sexuality? Just thinking about that one makes me dizzy!
Jersey Shortie Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 I think that maybe the openness we have with the acts and the openness we have today thru talk might do more for normalizing them than porn. Because men sat around talking about these things before doing them? Come on. I agree that having forums where you can opennly talk about them contribute to it. I however think you are trying to disaude the talk about the impact porn has had on the public. I think more men see the visual and want to try it then spend time talking about it on forums and then deciding they want to do it. ...if they find a partner who humiliates and degrades them, is it humiliating and degrading, or loving and respectful of their partner's sexuality? Just thinking about that one makes me dizzy! It's an interesting question. I tend to think in most cases, acts done between two poeple are different then acts done between people who don't care for each other. You can't claim that when A2M is done in the porno it's about respecting that girl and giving her the pleasure of tasting ass. But people see this and in some strange way it becomes "normlized". Even though these acts are sometimes not even done out of sexual pleasure but out of pushing the envelop. Because what sexual pleasure does a woman get from the idea of having something in her ass and then in her mouth? It's done as a way to dominate and degrade and meant to push the envelop as porn always seems to have to do.
rod_in_gtown Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Ah, thanks JB. Need to watch more porno I think.. I think this is a wonderful idea
rod_in_gtown Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 THIS I totally agree with! A lot of guys won't go within inches of their own cum, which is interesting (it is theirs, after all!). I think it brings up some homo-erotic horrors or something. This I can relate to... the more I think about it, the less horrified I am with it. However I feel I would have to be in a trusting LTR before I attempt this, definitely not something to try with someone I'm barely hooking up with.
rod_in_gtown Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 But this is a purely personal thing, Nicki. You might be into something I'm not, or vice versa. Doesn't make either right or wrong, it's just personal taste and limits. And I can say as you get older, your sexual bar tends to raise a bit. After a while, you get bored with the same old and just look to try something new and continue to be open-minded and experimental. When I was 15, I never conceived of doing anal - now, I enjoy it. So, just stay open to the fact that your own personal likes may change! I completely agree, missionary gets old really quick. I think that's why JS keeps finding that the guys have been making "strange porn-minded requests" when having sex. I don't think this is due to "porn upsetting the delicate balance of what's good and moral", it's just guys want to experiment with sex. You're just dating more experienced guys as you get older.
StartingOver07 Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 :confused: Okay you guys, what is V2M now?? vagina 2 mouth. Although this might not be the official term; I am just winging it.
StartingOver07 Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Maybe its also just a difference between the way men and women think... for those of you who know your man finds it sexy when you do V2M, would it bother you if he confided that part of the reason he finds it sexy is the thought that if you don't mind the taste of your own then maybe you wouldn't mind the taste of someone else's and that idea gets him hot? Well... yes... that would take some of the fun out of it. I don't mind the taste of my own because, well, it's mine. But that doesn't mean I want to taste anyone else's (female). So if the guy wants to continue with V2M, then he'd be smart to keep this thought to himself. Of course, that's just me. I have to say, though, that this line of thought baffles me. Maybe it's just a male/female thing because it would never occur to me that just because a guy likes kissing me after he's cum in my mouth it means he is open to tasting another guy's cum. That's sort of like saying that if a guy likes anal with a woman, he'd also like it with another guy because, hey, that's what 2 guys do, right?
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 :DLike it or not, some things ARE off limits. I don't want to be with a guy who wants me to pretend I'm a little girl in bed. I don't want to be with a guy who asks me to be part of a threesome. It's not "anything goes." If a guy asked me to pee on him, I'd doubt his sanity! To maybe refocus the discussion, no matter how open-minded and non-judgmental any of us believe we are, when you get right down to it, most of us don't really believe that anything goes and nothing is off-limits. In truth, I believe anyone who truly believes "anything goes" would have to be rather sociopathic. What we really mean is that we are open-minded and non-judgmental about a larger range of things than whoever we are comparing ourselves to. Could any of us, no matter how open-minded, accept a lover who was turned on by necrophilia or snuff porn? Would any of us not doubt that person's sanity for finding anything about those ideas arousing or acceptable? Instead we seem to have limits on what we find acceptable as sexually arousing for ourselves, what we find acceptable as sexually arousing for other people, and what we simply cannot accept as sexually arousing for anyone. The line between "I'm not into it but I still accept and respect you if you are" and "I'm not into it and I can't accept and respect you if you are" something I wrestle with because I can't find it in me to eliminate the latter, but I also hate to see people rejected and disrespected for being on the wrong side of what I often feel is someone else's arbitrary line. Personally, I just can't handle someone who would use handfulls of fecal matter or photos of dead people as arousing sex aids. Does that mean I'm no different, no better or worse, than someone who feels the same way about oral sex? If there really is nothing more objective than personal preference, how do any of us justify drawing any line for anyone? If there is more than personal preference at play, what exaclty is the nature of the "objective criteria" with which to judge the "sanity" of another person's sexuality?
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 I have to say, though, that this line of thought baffles me. Maybe it's just a male/female thing because it would never occur to me that just because a guy likes kissing me after he's cum in my mouth it means he is open to tasting another guy's cum. That's sort of like saying that if a guy likes anal with a woman, he'd also like it with another guy because, hey, that's what 2 guys do, right? Well, now, there are tiers to men's homophobia, you know. Being the penetrator puts you on the pitching team, which can range from making you mildly gay if you are just an ordinary bisexual guy to making you a real alpha male if you do it to dominate and humiliate otherwise manly men into being your submissive prison bitch! On the other hand, being the penatratee, regardless of whether oral or anal, puts you on the receiving team, which is always less manly you know!
StartingOver07 Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Well, now, there are tiers to men's homophobia, you know. Being the penetrator puts you on the pitching team, which can range from making you mildly gay if you are just an ordinary bisexual guy to making you a real alpha male if you do it to dominate and humiliate otherwise manly men into being your submissive prison bitch! On the other hand, being the penatratee, regardless of whether oral or anal, puts you on the receiving team, which is always less manly you know! So a guy who enjoys prostate stimulation has gay tendencies? Say it ain't so...
sweetbutcheeky Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Wow... I actually had to look snowballing up... should I be embarrased to admit that? Not at all, I knew what snowballing is but not A2M. Couldn't find it online.
rod_in_gtown Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 So a guy who enjoys prostate stimulation has gay tendencies? Say it ain't so... I don't think this is the case.
rod_in_gtown Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Not at all, I knew what snowballing is but not A2M. Couldn't find it online. I knew what both of them were, I just had never heard the term snowballing, I've always seen/heard it defined as cum-swapping.
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 So a guy who enjoys prostate stimulation has gay tendencies? Say it ain't so... The only thing I can say for other men is they would probably be cautious about who they admitted it to. As for my own personal preferences in that area, I have been cautious enough that I have never disclosed them to anyone else. I guess you all can be the first. I have had two women venture as far as external finger stimulation of the area... which I was very expressive about enjoying, but neither partner expressed any interest in taking it any further. Because of that experience, I experimented solo with various toys designed for insertion and found the sensation pleasurable, though not much fun to use alone. I imagine if I enjoyed those experiences, rimming and/or digital stimulation while receiving oral sex would be extremely pleasurable, though I don't expect I'll ever find out personally, and I would not be confortable trying it at all unless I had seriously power washed the internal plumbing first. (How do you bring up that request? Say, as long as you're down there, would you mind... SLAP!) The part I find embarassing is wondering, "If I liked a finger, would I like a gf using a strap-on?", followed by, "If I liked that, how would it feel for a man to experience the equivalent of a DP?" (simultaneous sex with one partner while another partner used a toy/strap-on anally). Again, I can't imagine I'd every actually get to try it since the risk of being accused of trying to find a devious way of getting a MFF threesome, being thought of as "deviant" for enjoying anal stimulation, or beign secretly gay/bisexual and too far in denail to admit it to myself is a serious obstacle.
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 Sorry about all the confusion the acronyms and terms seem to be causing. I was trying to avoid being too "explicit" and figured if you had a decent working knowledge of the term and acronym then you couldn't be too offended by the topic.
Jilly Bean Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 DJ - I have used strap-ons with 2 prior lovers. Both were TOTALLY straight, and the thought or option of additional partners or "heavier" activities never came up. I never took their desire for anal to mean that they were gay, or interested in a threesome. I took it to mean that they knew they really enjoyed anal stimulation, and I was happy to give them that pleasure. I think if you find an open-minded woman, she will not judge you, nor find this to be off-putting. And FWIW, *most* men I've slept with enjoyed some type of anal play - whether from salad tossing, fingers or dildos. Just because your pleasure center is located inside and therefore making it a little more challenging to stimulate, it shouldn't be off-limits NOR should it be judged as being anything more than it is. A lot of people have hang-ups, or will make judgements, and I do understand why you would not be jumping to share your fantasies and desires readily. But, there are many women who are not put off by these things, and you will find one!
Author djhall Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 A lot of people have hang-ups, or will make judgements, and I do understand why you would not be jumping to share your fantasies and desires readily. But, there are many women who are not put off by these things, and you will find one! JB - Thank you for the reassurances. I am definitely planning to start another thread soon about when/how you bring up the topic of compatibility when it comes to the desire for various sexual experiences. As I see it, if you bring it up _before_ you get emotionally invlolved, you really don't have the foundation yet to be able to raise the topic. "So, pipe wrenches... plumbers' tools or sex toys?" is likely to send any rational person running for the door on the third date regardless! On the other hand, once you _already_ have the emotional involvment that makes raising the subject appropriate, you risk emotional hurt if you are subsequently rejected as a degenerate pervert.
Jilly Bean Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 JB - Thank you for the reassurances. I am definitely planning to start another thread soon about when/how you bring up the topic of compatibility when it comes to the desire for various sexual experiences. As I see it, if you bring it up _before_ you get emotionally invlolved, you really don't have the foundation yet to be able to raise the topic. "So, pipe wrenches... plumbers' tools or sex toys?" is likely to send any rational person running for the door on the third date regardless! On the other hand, once you _already_ have the emotional involvment that makes raising the subject appropriate, you risk emotional hurt if you are subsequently rejected as a degenerate pervert. That's a touchy thing, DJ. When to bring up your fantasies and desires... I think if they are things that are "have to haves" and not "nice to haves", then raising it sooner is best. For instance, oral sex is a HAVE TO HAVE for me. Non-negotiable. lol, So, this gets covered early on, and if there is a disparity on this topic, we are over. However, a guy who wants to eat his creampie, or snowball with me, definitely hot and sexy, but not required. That's something I can wait to find out once we have more of a dynamic established. I think you need to decide which category your desires fall into, and then act accordingly. And yw. Im not judging anyone who is anti-this or anti-that, but do know that there are a lot of very open-minded women out there who will indulge and enjoy your proclivities.
Dirk Diggler Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Well I would hope so but from my experience, men claim they aren't influenced by porn yet sex seems to have become more porn-like. Such as the ejaculating on a girls face. I never use to have that as a request, and the past couple guys I dated all wanted to do that. I just wonder how long before these other activities do become the norm. Regardless if porn influences many men, sex is a primal act. But just because missionary Mary wants to be a complete prude and disguise her words under the veil of being unsanitary or demoralizing, she certainly enjoyed having her pussy eaten and or being told how great it tastes. But when the scenario is reversed it becomes a porn influenced taboo tragedy, thus that she refuses to take a load in the face/mouth to share in the experience!? I think that's rather one sided. So my point is, so what if porn is an influence or not? If your mind is closed already. Sex is basically boring with such women. Further more these women are never happy, where as women whom are real showstoppers in bed are right into ATM etc etc, or don't complain if being thrown something new and don't go off on this porn (jealousy) tangent. Get over it.
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