stoopid_guy Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 changed your opinion about porn based on on-line debates? If so, how?
LucreziaBorgia Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Nope, never. That said, I have seen how it can affect women who are anti-porn and that has changed the tone of what I post, but not the message.
Enema Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Yes. I used to think that being able to watch / use (jerk off) to porn was a basic right and that no one should suggest you stop. But, I've qualified that thinking by adding a, "as long as the sexual relationship with your partner isn't suffering". This is based on stories here where women have talked about having almost non-existent sex because their husbands spend too much time jerking off to porn.
luvstarved Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 I don't think the value of debate is necessarily to persuade or be persuaded to change one's point of view, but to be able to acknowledge and validate someone else's. And yes, online debates have given me insight and appreciation for how other people view the topic of porn. I stand by my opinion that the place of porn in any relationship should be determined by the two people involved through honest communication and with mutual respect. That seems to rarely happen, but I see the problem as more one of inability to understand and respect each other rather than through the inherent goodness or badness of porn. I have learned through these online discussions that for most men, the value of porn is very narrow and targeted to the shallow purpose of facilitation of masturbation, and that many women make more of it than that, extending the casual fantasy into criticism about how they look and how sexually appealing they are to their men...even to think that their men are fervently wishing that their wives were like the porn stars. This does not seem true for most men from what I read in the discussions. I don't think that anyone would argue that when porn use becomes excessive/obsessive and interferes with the couple's sex life, that there is a problem, but the problem is with the relationship and/or the obsessed individual. Personally, I do think that having it so freely available provides more temptation than I would like for there to be out there, but that is just my personal opinion which has not changed from reading debates. My H went through a phase of using porn as a substitute for a sex life with me and I had a HUGE problem with that. We got through it and he does not look at it at all anymore but in our particular relationship I am sensitive to it and know I would overreact if he did. He has never looked at it before or after our sexless phase (I am sure there were/are occasions, I'm not stupid, but he's never seriously actively sought it out on a regular basis). In other relationships, though, it was something that was mutually enjoyed occasionally. I would never have wanted to be with someone that was seriously "into" porn, but I would not want to be with someone who was obsessive about anything... So, short answer - no, no change in opinion. Yes, insight into others'.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Yes. I used to think that being able to watch / use (jerk off) to porn was a basic right and that no one should suggest you stop. But, I've qualified that thinking by adding a, "as long as the sexual relationship with your partner isn't suffering". This is based on stories here where women have talked about having almost non-existent sex because their husbands spend too much time jerking off to porn. Agree 100%... Mr. Lucky
soserious1 Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Yes, I've learned that porn is better than me in every single way, that intimacy is reserved for the young and that menopausal women are considered "gross" "disgusting" "used up old pigs" "hags"... good for nothing.
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Yes, I've learned that porn is better than me in every single way, that intimacy is reserved for the young and that menopausal women are considered "gross" "disgusting" "used up old pigs" "hags"... good for nothing. I hope you can find a way out of this mindset one day. Your life will not be a happy one until you do.
grogster Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Are you kidding? If anything, I want to watch hard core porn after reading the nutty anti-porn posts.
Adunaphel Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 changed your opinion about porn based on on-line debates? If so, how? My opinion about porn has actually been reinforced, and I realized that my adversion-to-porn problem is bigger than I thought and likely to cause me a lot of relationship problems.
Author stoopid_guy Posted September 1, 2008 Author Posted September 1, 2008 Yes, I've learned that porn is better than me in every single way, that intimacy is reserved for the young and that menopausal women are considered "gross" "disgusting" "used up old pigs" "hags"... good for nothing. Soserious, you need help. You have to get out of that funk. Not all men think that way, especially not older ones, but hardly anyone at all is going to want to be around someone with a bitter attitude. It's not going to just impact your love life either, but every aspect of you social life. I hope for your sake it's temporary. If not, proffessional help would be well worth it.
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 The online debates haven't changed my attitude towards it much, in that it's still a joke to me, but it has opened up my eyes in how it can negatively impact on relationships and individuals, whether valid or invalid reasons. I still feel that you can't be the thought police. It's damaging to try, both to yourself and to your man. If it's a moral objection, state it upfront as one of your boundaries and if your SO can't abide by it or lies to get around it, walk. It's no different than an SO being able/unable to meet any other need and/or being honest.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Sure, discussing porn has changed some of my views. When I was younger, I was navie about porn. As I got older, I began seeing how much a part of men's lives porn is. And then being able to discuss it online, I began seeing how much more of a serious problem it is for alot of people. I understand somewhat where men are coming from but I don't think their actions are fair or right in respect to porn and the women they have relationships with. I truly think at the end of the day women end up getting crapped on. I don't think men make an effort to support women very much and it has left me disheartened about what men truly value or want from women. It's openned my eyes to how many other women struggle with this issue in their every day lives with the men they love. And not just when someone is a "porn addict', but just the general use of porn can have a very negative impact on a relationship and on women. I've also learned that women haven't really come as far as they think they have in equality. It's still a man's world and men have proven that porn is just as important to them as real relationships. With how invasive porn as become, and the increasing amount of hardcore porn out there, it's only a matter of time where hardcore porn becomes the norm. And it scares me for the future of relationships between men and women. It seems that men want women to think they are these great wonderful men who can indirectly use and degrade other women at the same time. It just doesn't work like that. I've also learned that men are no more logical or smart about porn then women are. There is nothing more powerful the then the postive reinforcement of an orgasm. Not even when you have a good woman that really loves you. When it comes to men, visual stimulation trumps all.
Lizzie60 Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 It certainly has not changed my mind about porn, I enjoy porn.. but it made me realize that there are a lot of people out there that are still very close-minded about it.. I have learned more about others than about myself.. which is a good thing I guess..
soserious1 Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Soserious, you need help. You have to get out of that funk. Not all men think that way, especially not older ones, but hardly anyone at all is going to want to be around someone with a bitter attitude. It's not going to just impact your love life either, but every aspect of you social life. I hope for your sake it's temporary. If not, proffessional help would be well worth it. Actually my "social life" is going to consist of working a second job. I'm going to be required to write a rather hefty alimony check each month and this divorce will gut my pension/retirement accounts which had already took a beating from market down turns. At this point in time I'm not interested in going out, I don't want to interact with anybody really over and above what I must do professionally.
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Actually my "social life" is going to consist of working a second job. I'm going to be required to write a rather hefty alimony check each month and this divorce will gut my pension/retirement accounts which had already took a beating from market down turns. At this point in time I'm not interested in going out, I don't want to interact with anybody really over and above what I must do professionally. Anything you brought into the marriage, shouldn't be open to gutting. If this is happening, get yourself a better lawyer or get a lawyer.
soserious1 Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Anything you brought into the marriage, shouldn't be open to gutting. If this is happening, get yourself a better lawyer or get a lawyer. He's entitled to a big percentage of the retirement accounts.. how much this is going to hurt is going to depend on valuation and if I can bargain using other assets. In this market I should be swinging max funds into my investments, not selling them.
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 He's entitled to a big percentage of the retirement accounts.. how much this is going to hurt is going to depend on valuation and if I can bargain using other assets. In this market I should be swinging max funds into my investments, not selling them. If you're invested in the market, there's no reason to liquidate. You can split investments without selling. Refer to a professional for tax advice. I won't get into whether or not you should be maximizing your contributions, as I'm not licensed in your jurisdiction to offer investment advice.
soserious1 Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 If you're invested in the market, there's no reason to liquidate. You can split investments without selling. Refer to a professional for tax advice. I won't get into whether or not you should be maximizing your contributions, as I'm not licensed in your jurisdiction to offer investment advice. What I'd like to do ideally is buy him out of my retirement accounts totally.
Trialbyfire Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 What I'd like to do ideally is buy him out of my retirement accounts totally. Once again, get a lawyer. If he's entitled to x-dollars, it doesn't matter where it comes from. Having said that, there's legislation governing retirement accounts about spousal benefits which can probably be superceded by some form of professionally drafted legal agreement. I do stress that you consult legal counsel since I'm not one. I engaged legal counsel through my separation and divorce, although there were different circumstances and financial situations involved, and found the advice to be worth every penny spent. Ask around with contacts, family, friends as to a recommended counsel, if you haven't already retained one.
Walk Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 I think the debates emotionally sway me more toward anti-porn. I really identify with some of these women. Just when I think I'm more comfortable with porn.. some of these debates remind me of the times where my exh would ignore me for days in a row and then sit at the computer watching prego ladies getting cum shot on their faces. Then a few days later want to re-enact those videos on my body. Gosh, it just brings back all those warm and fuzzy feelings! I thought the arguments would help me understand the male perspective better. Help me open my mind to different views on porn. But the overriding argument by men is that I will never be what my SO wants. That the longer I am with my SO, the less he will want me. That the older I get, the less valuable I become sexually. That no matter how hard I try, or what new methods I employ, I'm not appealing. That unless I can change how I look every few weeks, then I will always be second class to porn.
c-riouz Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Sure, discussing porn has changed some of my views. When I was younger, I was navie about porn. As I got older, I began seeing how much a part of men's lives porn is. And then being able to discuss it online, I began seeing how much more of a serious problem it is for alot of people. I understand somewhat where men are coming from but I don't think their actions are fair or right in respect to porn and the women they have relationships with. I thought the arguments would help me understand the male perspective better. Help me open my mind to different views on porn. But the overriding argument by men is that I will never be what my SO wants. That the longer I am with my SO, the less he will want me. That the older I get, the less valuable I become sexually. That no matter how hard I try, or what new methods I employ, I'm not appealing. That unless I can change how I look every few weeks, then I will always be second class to porn. This sums it up for me.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 ....some of these debates remind me of the times where my exh would ignore me for days in a row and then sit at the computer watching prego ladies getting cum shot on their faces. Then a few days later want to re-enact those videos on my body. Gosh, it just brings back all those warm and fuzzy feelings! Yes. I have also had these experiences. Do you know that I use to never have a guy ask me if he could shoot on my face and now that seems to be something alot of guys like. Men say porn doesn't influcence them but they are kidding themselves. I can't help but wonder what sex would be like without the influence of porn. Apparently we are suppose to like being degrading and beg for it. Like we aren't even human. That's how porn makes me feel. That women aren't human to men. I thought the arguments would help me understand the male perspective better. Help me open my mind to different views on porn. But the overriding argument by men is that I will never be what my SO wants. That the longer I am with my SO, the less he will want me. That the older I get, the less valuable I become sexually. That no matter how hard I try, or what new methods I employ, I'm not appealing. That unless I can change how I look every few weeks, then I will always be second class to porn. That has been the message I have gotten as well. I also started looking int othe porn debate to try and understand men. But with the answers men give you, there is very little hope that men want to work with real women and want to open themselves up to caring about us. The message I struggle with everyday that makes it hard for me to be truly vulnerable with a man is that I am not a human being, i'm just there to make him feel good until he can use another female for the same purpose. I am not trying to condemn men and their sexuality. I like men that enjoy sex and have strong sexdrives. But there is apoint when you have to ask yourself that if there are alot of women that feel the same way about something, they aren't all wrong on it. I don't feel like I'm a vauable human being to men sometimes. And how can I when men defend and prize an medium that treats women like they are worthless?
manugeorge Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I have learned that different people have different reasons for disliking porn. I have learned that women who have been burned by porn in some way or the other, e.g., neglect, blatant comparison to porn stars by their men, men asking them to act like porn stars, etc, are the women that are absolutely adverse to porn and don't want it around them in any way, shape or form. These women have a point of course, it's a normal reaction when you've had a negative experience with something. But they forget one thing though, which is, porn itself is not to blame for their getting burned. THE MEN they chose are to blame. They chose men who cannot seperate fantasy from reality. They chose tactless, disrespectful men who would have exhibited this disrespectful behavior in some other way EVEN IF YOU TAKE AWAY PORN. It is no different from that saying, "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Alcohol- there are people who can have 2 drinks at a bar, call it a night and go home. And there are others who will drink until they puke. Alcohol is not to blame, the people who misuse alcohol are to blame. I have learned that defenders of porn, the men and women who speak for porn are ones that have experienced moderate and sensible use of porn. Women that defend porn are ones who have never been pushed aside for porn. They are women who have been with men who use porn but have never neglected the women in their lives because of porn. I have learned that each party speaks from their own personal experience and sometimes it is hard to be objective. But it is also good for one to be able to open thier eyes and see beyond how one or two men did you wrong. All men are not evil because you came across one that is.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 But they forget one thing though, which is, porn itself is not to blame for their getting burned. I never understand when people rally for porn. It's not to blame? Is porn a wonderful respectful repsentation of women and their sexuality? Are men rsepecting women when they view porn? Would men want their daughters in porn? Fair questions.
manugeorge Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 I never understand when people rally for porn. It's not to blame? Is porn a wonderful respectful repsentation of women and their sexuality? Are men rsepecting women when they view porn? Would men want their daughters in porn? Fair questions. I kind of compare porn to any other vice in society. It is what it is. Guns are what they are. Alcohol is what it is, marijuana is what it is, Sport cars are what they are, motorcycles are what they are. Credit cards are what they are, Abortion clinics are what they are. It is how people use these things that determine their level of destruction. Should they not that have existed at all, perhaps, but let's face it, we don't live in a perfect world. Now that they are here though, it is people who ultimately determine how much or how little they will use it to destroy society.
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