Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 I think I'm effed in the head. I want what I can't have, and don't want what I can. Ugh. This is about the guy I went on a second date with last night. I suspect this might be long but I want you to get a picture of what I experienced. Dave and I went to college together. After college, I moved away with my then-serious BF and we never saw each other again. Last Monday (or Sunday?) Dave looked me up on MySpace and we started chatting. I was very excited to hear from him, just because we had so much fun in college and I love little MySpace reunions (I've found many long-lost friends that way) and he was still just as handsome as he was back in the day. Anyway, he suggested we get a drink to catch up and was being flirty, and I could sense he was interested, but honestly... I wasn't sure if it was a "date-date" or just meeting up and seeing if maybe there was a spark there or not. Well, we meet up at a very nice place, and it becomes evident quite quickly that it is a date-date. I don't mind, as he's still an attractive guy, charming, engaging, funny, all of that. During the date, it was a very romantic setting. He's very attentive and actually affectionate. For example, while sitting at the bar waiting for our table, he'd put his hand on my knee when making a point or laughing. Or touch my hand. He seemed very, very comfortable, and was making efforts to be a great date, a true gentleman. He knows the chef and is a sommelier, so I was also quite impressed with his efforts to impress me throughout dinner. After dinner, we walked to a wine bar. He offered me his arm to walk arm-in-arm, and I took it. While at the wine bar, he did more of the hand on my knee thing, even taking my hand at one point and kissing it. This was all very natural for him...it wasn't some rico suave thing. The way he looked at me was as though I was the most beautiful person alive. I kinda liked it, but began to worry that maybe he was thinking "this" was more than it actually was. We had a great time - the date lasted 5 hours total. We were able to talk and talk and talk. I felt sooooo comfortable with him, with the exception of the touchy-feely stuff. At the end of the night he walked me back to my car and kissed me. I felt weird about this because I had just kissed another guy the night before, and that was on the second date. I usually don't kiss on the first "date," and having not even been sure at the beginning of the evening that it was even a "date" to begin with, the whole thing seemed ... rushed. But I figured I could set the pace so that things remained steady, not rushed. Didn't work. The very next day - Friday - if I wanted to go to a comedy show THAT NIGHT. I was exhausted, and I felt like back-to-back dates was way too much for me to deal with given my the fact that I am, after all, seeing other people, and don't want to rush into anything with anyone....so I said no. I don't know why (it's not any better!) but I suggested last night as an alternative (probably the whole "if you say no you must suggest an alternative date" theory, and I'm busy literally for the next week!). He made the plans, and we met up last night. He was even more touchy-feely this time around, more often. Kissing my cheek a few times, rubbing my shoulder, putting his hand on my leg, caressing my hand... I didn't reciprocate ANY of it, and instead almost ignored it. I kept thinking, "this would be so nice...like...after...at least 6 or 7 dates, maybe, but not now." As a side note, I have a ridiculous amount of work to do this weekend, so I didn't make holiday weekend plans. I've told him this a few times. Actually, before we even made plans for Thursday I told him that I didn't know/think I could do anything during the weekend because of how much crap I have to get done. He seemed to totally understand and appreciate my work demands, so I was a little irritated that he had even asked again for this second date so soon. I'm still not sure why I compromised them... After the comedy club, he asked if I wanted to do anything else...get a drink, etc. I reminded him that I had to treat today like a workday and get up early. He said okay, and said we could do "something else another night this weekend." Another night this weekend? That would mean in the next 2 days, which means 3 dates in 5 days! I told him I couldn't do anything else with him for the rest of the weekend as I was busy with work and other things. He seemed genuinely surprised and skeptical, but understanding. Knowing that I'm literally busy from Monday through Saturday of next week (out of town for half of it), and not wanting him to feel blown off, I suggested we go ahead and get a drink before calling it a night. We get to the next place and I see a car outside that looks exactly like text-dumper's. I feel a little twinge of panic. He sees me make this recognition, and asks if I know the owner. I say, "Maybe," and I know that I looked a little freaked out. We get into the bar and he suggests we go sit in this tiny/cozy/nookie-lookin' booth in the corner. I'm trying to avoid PDA at this point, so I suggest the bar top. Within 1.5 minutes flat, he's aggressively pulling me towards him and trying to kiss my cheek. I instantly recoil. I tell him that I'm not comfortable with PDA at this point, so soon, so early. He apologizes and says he's just a touchy-feely kinda guy. I get that. But as he's saying it, he's again touching my leg. So I tell him that I like him so I want to talk to him rather than just freaking out and blowing him off. I tell him that I feel like everything's feeling really rushed for me, that while I'm glad he found me on MS, he kinda came out of nowhere when I wasn't expecting him, and now all of a sudden he's trying to set up 3 dates in 5 days and being really affectionate in public and that I need to move much, much slower. It probably didn't come out right, as I literally watched him build an invisible wall - his body language completely changed. He says, "Wow, I've never had someone tell me that it's too much, too soon, too fast, and that I'm needy, desperate, and clingy on the second date." II did use words to the effect of too soon, too fast FOR ME, but said nothing that would imply he was needy/desperate/clingy.) He's clearly upset, and yet very understanding. He explains that he's just easy going and didn't think he needed to play games...that if he was free and wanted to see me, he felt comfortable asking. I get that, and totally appreciate it. I'm glad he felt comfortable enough to just spontaneously ask. But he's still weirded out. Ugh. That's not how I wanted him to feel. I tried my best to explain to him that I just need to move slowly and can't see him as often as he's comfortable with...but I just think it all came out wrong. We ultimately left things on a good note, and he emailed me this morning to suggest we do something when I get back into town. Now he's doing exactly what I want him to do - being patient, on my schedule - but I feel like it's too late, like damage has already been done. It's not reasonable for me to feel that way, is it? What's worst is I feel like if Dave was the text-dumper, I'd be all in. I'd WANT to see him 3 out of 5 days, no problem. I'd force myself not to just to pace myself, but having him ask for back-to-back dates or be all touchy-feely would have made me swoooon. Also, with the TD, I was the one aiming for too much, too soon, too fast, and said he "wasn't ready for what I wanted yet." Ugh. To think that I did that to him, made him feel pressured and thus ruining things...ugh. Now that this otherwise awesome guy is doing it to me, I totally understand. I want what I can't have; and don't want what I can. So typical right? WTF is wrong with me?!?
Trialbyfire Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 My take. He's too pushy and physical right away. The hand on knee more than once, on the second date and a lot of touching would blow it for me too. Unless you touched him a lot first, he's exceeded the line of good taste.
Green Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 nothing is wrong with you, your perfect would you please float down through the clouds and land on my house
Lishy Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Nothing is wrong with you! We are all the same, we all want what is not easy to get This all goes back to how we compare guys to ourselves - Without knowing it, his actions and persistance has caused you to be in the driving seat and he is letting you know that he finds you attractive so you have nothing to wonder about and you automatically place yourself as above him - You placed text dumper as above you and that is why you got so into him, you wanted to prove to yourself you could have him. Those butterflies you mentioned in your other thread are caused by not being sure and the wondering causes the butterlies and THAT is why we dont like the 'nice guys' and the guys who are into us and show it!
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 I don't know what to do about this guy. Wait and see how I feel (assuming he lets things move slowly)?
LionLover Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Well obviously something about him made you uncomfortable. When you did not reciprocate ANY of it, that should have been his cue to back off. It's almost like an invasion of personal space. I've had that happen to me if I'm out or something & some random guy approaches me, if he gets to close within my personal space it puts me off & I find it very offensive. Aside from Dave being overly agressive, focus on some of the other reasons as to why you are not interested him. Maybe that will give you a better understanding of the type of guy you don't want & then compare that to what traits/qualities you do want.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 Well obviously something about him made you uncomfortable. When you did not reciprocate ANY of it, that should have been his cue to back off. He didn't make me uncomfortable. It was the behavior that did. I felt almost claustrophobic, even when he wasn't physically present (when he asked me out the very next day). Aside from Dave being overly aggressive, focus on some of the other reasons as to why you are not interested him. Maybe that will give you a better understanding of the type of guy you don't want & then compare that to what traits/qualities you do want. There are no other reasons other than an absence of stomach-flipping butterflies. And I feel like the absence of stomach-flipping butterflies is based on completely superficial, lame things...ugh.
LionLover Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 There are no other reasons other than an absence of stomach-flipping butterflies. OK well that is a HUGE indicator right there. You are basing your initial interest in someone solely on "butterflies". You can't do that.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 There are no other reasons other than an absence of stomach-flipping butterflies. OK well that is a HUGE indicator right there. You are basing your initial interest in someone solely on "butterflies". You can't do that. That's what I've been asking myself...why not? Are we still at the initial interest stage? After two dates, should I feel something more...?
LionLover Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 That's what I've been asking myself...why not? Are we still at the initial interest stage? After two dates, should I feel something more...? Put the "butterflies" aside. What else is it about Dave that you do/do not like?
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 Put the "butterflies" aside. What else is it about Dave that you do/do not like? Like: HandsomeGreat conversationalistLots of interests in common (and the hings we don't have in common we'd both like to share with the other)Well-rounded, well-traveledGentlemanAttentiveUnderstandingKindFunnyIntelligentHe's a "man" - hard to explain, but he's not a "guy" Don't like: The lack of crazy butterfliesHe's almost the same height as I am when I am in heels (which is 90% of the time)His car (Don't kill me!!! I just...ugh. I'm a superficial wench.)
Ariadne Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Seems like that guy didn't want to "get to know you" or maybe "have a relationship". All he did was to make passes all night and hope to get lucky the sooner the better and get you drunk at the end. The reason he changed was because you made it hard for him to do just that. He'll probably call again to see you, and then consider you too high-maint later on. This guy doesn't care for a relationship, he just wants to fool around. And the text guy, just forget it.
Vertex Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 I don't know how you worded all that to him, but there's nothing wrong with saying that you need to slow down. *shrug* No worries. If he respects your wishes, then great. If not, then the choice is clear.
LionLover Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Like: HandsomeGreat conversationalistLots of interests in common (and the hings we don't have in common we'd both like to share with the other)Well-rounded, well-traveledGentlemanAttentiveUnderstandingKindFunnyIntelligentHe's a "man" - hard to explain, but he's not a "guy" Don't like: The lack of crazy butterfliesHe's almost the same height as I am when I am in heels (which is 90% of the time)His car (Don't kill me!!! I just...ugh. I'm a superficial wench.) Good. Now figure out what's negotiable and what's not.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 Good. Now figure out what's negotiable and what's not. Oh jeez. Just spit it out.
Shygirl15 Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 There are no other reasons other than an absence of stomach-flipping butterflies. OK well that is a HUGE indicator right there. You are basing your initial interest in someone solely on "butterflies". You can't do that. Butterflies AKA chemistry is a key factor in developing attraction with someone. SG's dates with Dave went really well; IMO he sounds like the perfect gentleman, however she feels no chemistry. I'm sure she wouldn't have minded if it was TD doing all the PDA Dave was making.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 Butterflies AKA chemistry is a key factor in developing attraction with someone. SG's dates with Dave went really well; IMO he sounds like the perfect gentleman, however she feels no chemistry. I'm sure she wouldn't have minded if it was TD doing all the PDA Dave was making. Exactly. But WHY do I have chemistry with one and not the other? It sucks to think that TD felt the same way about me that I do about Dave. It's almost embarrassing in a way.
LionLover Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Oh jeez. Just spit it out. No no...YOU have to figure that out for yourself my litte butternut squash. :p
likestolaugh Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Like: HandsomeGreat conversationalistLots of interests in common (and the hings we don't have in common we'd both like to share with the other)Well-rounded, well-traveledGentlemanAttentiveUnderstandingKindFunnyIntelligentHe's a "man" - hard to explain, but he's not a "guy" Don't like: The lack of crazy butterfliesHe's almost the same height as I am when I am in heels (which is 90% of the time)His car (Don't kill me!!! I just...ugh. I'm a superficial wench.) well you've just answered your own question eh? There's nothing in the Cons list that's particularly major. I've said it before... and it doesn't always hold true, but I have seen it happen... maybe the "butterflies" as you put it... will develop over time, especially when you stop thinking about it. Give it a couple more dates, and if you still don't have any real attraction to this guy, then move on I suppose. It's good that you won't be seeing him for a bit, as it will give you time to refresh your mind... as the day or two after a date is rarely the best time to be able to clearly think about a situation. No no...YOU have to figure that out for yourself my litte butternut squash. :p you and your food remarks lol
Touche Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 Totally agree with LikesToLaugh. That was exactly what I was going to say.
Trialbyfire Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 I've tried the route of giving someone more time through dating and found that if it's not there, it's a waste of time. This doesn't mean it has to be at the level of crazy butterflies, just a reasonable level of chemistry. If you're feeling zero chemistry or attraction, shut it down.
Author Star Gazer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Posted August 31, 2008 If you're feeling zero chemistry or attraction, shut it down. I'm definitely not feeling ZERO. It's at about 70% just sitting there, and when he kisses me increases.
Trialbyfire Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 I'm definitely not feeling ZERO. It's at about 70% just sitting there, and when he kisses me increases. Are you flattered or attracted?
jerbear Posted August 31, 2008 Posted August 31, 2008 I'm definitely not feeling ZERO. It's at about 70% just sitting there, and when he kisses me increases. so keep kissing and if it does not go to 80 then shut it down.
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