grogster Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I agree, let the guy know upfront, its something that needs to be discussed before getting into a more serious realtionship later on. This part though, "Men don't care if women accept porn." Is almost like saying they don't care about a woman's feelings and they are going to do it come hell or high water. So therefore if a man is not going to care about how a woman feels on the matter, then yes that person is better off not being in a relationship at all, and just having a pure wank relationship with porn, than having a carring relationsip with a real human being. No, that wasn't my intention. What I meant to say is this: most men don't need their women to enjoy porn as much, or in the same way, as they do. Just let us be--whether it's "don't ask, don't tell" or some other accomodation. Partners frequently reasonably accomodate one another's interests--even when these interests are not shared. Notice, however, the modifier "reasonably." Men should not have a blank check to devour porn at the expense of their partners' self-esteem or mental health. There is a middle ground, a Buddist Middle Way, which many couples follow in practice. A relationship is about reasonable accomodation. It's only in public forums that the moral absolutists come out from under their Bibles to rail against Eros. As an aside, I'm not a porn hound. I've used porn in the past as a visual stimulant with my ex-wife and most recent GF, who both enjoyed it as much as I. The focus, however, was on our lovemaking, not the flickering images. In most relationships, porn's an occasional jump start for nookie. People should try to relax.
manugeorge Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Okay what you said : One time my bf was talking to some girl at 3 am and then he came in the room with an erection. I was disgusted . Because he was messing around with a real girl. We ended the relationship soon after that. If my bf watched some porn , got turned on and came in the bedroom I would not be as happy if he came in the room and looked at me and got turned on. I get what you are saying . How about he just watch porn , get himself satisfied and leave me out of it ? So the connection to porn comes back to a private one. If I watch porn I do it privately. If the bf watches porn he does it privately. I don't dig the couples watch it together stuff. I just dont. Some here might . To each his own... You know, along these lines, just this past weekend, I knew my boyfriend would want to be intimate with me, well because he ALWAYS wants to be intimate and I have noticed that I'm not automatically ready to go right when he wants to. I just don't get aroused that easily or quickly and I am very attracted to him. You know what I did? I read some erotica during the day before I saw him, in fact, I made a conscious effort to start watching romantic movies, reading steamy novels, and just generally thinking about sex so that when I did see him at the end of the day, it won't take us 2 hours of foreplay to get going. And I won't turn him down for sex just because I'm not in the mood. I tried to get myself in the mood in my own way and when we became intimate, I gave him my all. Now, wouldn't it be ludicrous if he got upset that I read erotica before coming to see him? even though I did it for him? The point I'm trying to make is that the sight of your naked body will not always or automatically ignite fire in your SO's groin. That is BIOLOGICALLY impossible. Once we become familiar with things, it will not always excite us as much as it did when it was still novel. Which is why sex and intimacy tend to die down as a relationship progresses. You can't maintain that intensity forever. But people do use certain tools to keep the fire burning and, porn. in moderate use, can be used as a tool to keep the fire burning, just like dressing up or trying different positions or even a night out on the town. My SO can watch porn during the day, save up his excitement and unleash it on me when we get together:D. I'll take that and I won't bother myself with unnecessary criticisms.
PandorasBox Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 "People should try to relax." Oh I agree. I can see both sides of the fence. Rather than just one side strictly. So when people get into a realtionship, talk about the porn isuse find out where you each stand on the matter. If he loves it and you don't, move on then, because it will not get better later on down the road. Same for men, if you find out she hates it or its a dealbreaker and you love it, then shes not the one for you. If the woman feels that whatever issues she has with her man falls of def ears and he cares not for how she feels, then once again move on. If people can find a happy medium and it works for both people involved, thats great too.
Mary3 Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Most men are mechanically inclined ( most ) and can understand the concepts of how something operates and how to take it apart , fix it and put it back together. That is part of their brain. Most men are competitive by nature . They like to conquer and they like to win. They like to persue. Think of a hunter . Most men do not express emotional outbursts. Due mostly to conditioning as a child that men do not cry. They supress and go to great lengths to be strong and not feel weak to a woman. Most men view a woman like a tracking device . Their eyes hit on a favorite thing on a womans body and the eyes move up to the face. In some cases the eyes go right to the face and then move down to the body. Most men are physical . Mating . Rituals . Hard wired to reproduce ( in most cases ) I don't think you can reach in their brain and remove with mother nature put there. Yes Porn is a newer thing. Cavemen did not have it. But I am sure Cavemen had fantasies.
Walk Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Most men are mechanically inclined ( most ) and can understand the concepts of how something operates and how to take it apart , fix it and put it back together. That is part of their brain. Most men are competitive by nature . They like to conquer and they like to win. They like to persue. Think of a hunter . Most men do not express emotional outbursts. Due mostly to conditioning as a child that men do not cry. They supress and go to great lengths to be strong and not feel weak to a woman. Most men view a woman like a tracking device . Their eyes hit on a favorite thing on a womans body and the eyes move up to the face. In some cases the eyes go right to the face and then move down to the body. Most men are physical . Mating . Rituals . Hard wired to reproduce ( in most cases ) I don't think you can reach in their brain and remove with mother nature put there. Yes Porn is a newer thing. Cavemen did not have it. But I am sure Cavemen had fantasies. God dang it Mary. MOST MEN MOST MEN. It's illogical. I'm calling bunk. Most women do NOT suck at math because they're stupid women. Most women are not vigins who don't masturbate. Most women are not naturally monogamous. You're making leaps in logic that aren't there. By your logic, I'm a male. You aren't stating anything that will allow someone who isn't into porn to understand porn usage.
manugeorge Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I would say instead of even trying to understand porn usage, if you are deathly opposed to it, why not save the energy and just find a man who isn't into it? I don't think ALL 3 billion+ men in this world use porn. Some tucked away in remote countries probably have never even seen a playboy magazine. It's just like anything else, gambling, sports, whatever. If you don't like it, don't pick a SO that dabbles in it. Then the need for arguments will be totally moot. Trying to change people is frustrating, just find one that already comes packaged in the consistency you want. Isn't that easier?
Walk Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 7 may 2007 study: Prehistoric man had sex for fun new research into stone age humans has argued that, far from having intercourse simply to reproduce, they had sex for fun. Various sex practices were widespread in primitive societies as a way of building up cultural ties. according to the study, a 30,000-year-old statue of a naked woman - the venus of willendorf - and an equally ancient stone phallus found in a german cave, provide the earliest direct evidence that sex was about far more than babies. Timothy taylor, reader in archeology at bradford university, reviewed evidence from dozens of archeological finds and scientific studies for his research. "the widespread lay belief that sex in the past was predominantly heterosexual and reproductive can be challenged," said taylor. He argues that monogamy only became established as hunter-gatherer societies took up agriculture and settled in houses, allowing the social roles of men and women to become more fixed. Experts believe research such as taylor's may help overturn false assumptions that sex for the purposes of reproduction is the form closest to nature. Petra boynton, a relationship counselor and health lecturer at university college, london, found the study 'refreshing.' "so much evolutionary theory promotes the idea that humans, particularly women, are preprogrammed for monogamy, but that is often simply overlaying science on a pre-existing view of society," she said. Taylor, whose research is published by haworth press in the handbook of the evolution of human sexuality, says the human attitude to sex arose from the complex interaction of physical and mental development. By comparison with modern humans, apes have tiny male genitals, no female breasts and are hairy. But they are easily able to distinguish the sexes because males can weigh up to three times as much as females. Humans, by contrast, are far less easy to distinguish by size. Taylor says that prominent male genitals and female breasts developed to aid recognition of the opposite sex in creatures of similar size and shape. The similarity in size, combined with the ease of face-to-face sex, allowed intercourse to become a vital part of social interaction, communication and inventiveness. sources: Fox news, sunday times (29 april 2007) .........................................................
Walk Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I would say instead of even trying to understand porn usage, if you are deathly opposed to it, why not save the energy and just find a man who isn't into it? I don't think ALL 3 billion+ men in this world use porn. Some tucked away in remote countries probably have never even seen a playboy magazine. It's just like anything else, gambling, sports, whatever. If you don't like it, don't pick a SO that dabbles in it. Then the need for arguments will be totally moot. Trying to change people is frustrating, just find one that already comes packaged in the consistency you want. Isn't that easier? It's easier to ignore an issue, and segregate due to beliefs, then to disucss and come to an area where both parties can understand the other? I haven't argued that men shouldn't watch porn. I'm not against it. But I don't see any reason to allow half-baked illusions of scientific fact as proof that men are "Born" to porn.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Would be nice if men were upfront about their porn use and level of normal usage of it. But I haven't met a man yet who was. For every man that's not upfront about his porn usage, there's a woman that hears a prospective BF say "I use it every once in a while" and says to herself "I don't like that, but I'll fix that in him later". I'm not sure how upfront either gender is in approaching this kind of issue head on... Mr. Lucky
Mr. Lucky Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I haven't argued that men shouldn't watch porn. I'm not against it. But I don't see any reason to allow half-baked illusions of scientific fact as proof that men are "Born" to porn. Do you accept that there is any biological basis for an appreciable differerce in men's and women's brains and instinctive thought processes? You seem to feel that one could take a male newborn, geld him at birth and successfully raise him as a woman... Mr. Lucky
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I don't think men are 'born to porn' but they are born to have their brain react a certain way to incoming visual stimuli, whether it be something blatant like porn or something as simple as noticing an attractive woman walking by and smelling her perfume.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 The real message is no man is ever happy with what he has. It doesn't matter what kind of partner you are to a man because the pay off is that he will only see you as less exciting as time passes because you are aren't new. So who even wants to try anymore because the thank you a woman gets is a man replacing her every chance he gets. He won't care to make you feel special and beautiful and porn gets his loyaltly over the real woman. That is what most men want. Men win, Women loose. We aren't important. We aren't vauable. It just matters what men want and need and what their sexuality means.
manugeorge Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 It's easier to ignore an issue, and segregate due to beliefs, then to discuss and come to an area where both parties can understand the other? I haven't argued that men shouldn't watch porn. I'm not against it. But I don't see any reason to allow half-baked illusions of scientific fact as proof that men are "Born" to porn. Well, I wouldn't say they are born into porn, I would say they are born as highly visual beings chock full of testosterone which also makes them highly sexual beings. Put those two together and you get the birth and sustenance of pornography. It didn't start with Hugh Heffner in the 60s, it started in some form or the other at the beginning of civilization. Should women blindly accept the use of porn in their relationship, it really depends on each individual situation, I think.
grogster Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 The real message is no man is ever happy with what he has. It doesn't matter what kind of partner you are to a man because the pay off is that he will only see you as less exciting as time passes because you are aren't new. So who even wants to try anymore because the thank you a woman gets is a man replacing her every chance he gets. He won't care to make you feel special and beautiful and porn gets his loyaltly over the real woman. That is what most men want. Men win, Women loose. We aren't important. We aren't vauable. It just matters what men want and need and what their sexuality means. This discussion is not about porn or even male sexuality. Rather, we're talking around the perception of male power in sexual relationships and the female fear of sexual obsolescence and betrayal. Porn is not the enemy; men are.
manugeorge Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Hell, men are not the only one who find their SOs less exciting as time passes by, women do too!. It's just the nature of life. Ask anybody in a longterm marriage or relationship, excitement does eventually die down. Those habits of his that were once cute when he was a young man become downright annoying after he's done it for the 20th time. His cute love handles gradually morph into a pot belly that will no longer be instantly arousing. He may not always make you feel beautiful or sexy but you most likely don't make him feel like your knight in shining armour either.
Walk Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Do you accept that there is any biological basis for an appreciable differerce in men's and women's brains and instinctive thought processes? You seem to feel that one could take a male newborn, geld him at birth and successfully raise him as a woman... I'm nuture verses nature proponent. I don't believe there is that huge of a gap between the two sides, but a large portion of it is due to how each gender is raised. Raise a girl like a boy, and you'd have male behaviors. Raise a boy like a girl, and you'll get the feminine male. Instinct is hard to attribute to what we are in todays world. Instinctually, we should be programmed to fight when put in threatening situations. Not many men do. We're a hugely watered down version of the neolithic man. To use that as the sole cause of your actions (porn viewing) would necessitate that you also hunt and gather on a daily basis. Do you? Or are you sitting on your butt right now typing on a computer screen all day? It is far more likely the differences can be attributed to how we are raised, how society determines appropriate and inappropriate behavior. We learn our behavior. I personally wouldn't want to make men into women. But I would love to see men dig a little deeper into their own psychy to determine their own specific reasons for viewing porn, and stop excusing any behavior as "out of their control". (i.e. killing, raping, pillaging, plundering. ) I like checking out hot men and watching porn. I do it because I'm a leecherous old lady. I wouldn't do it in a fashion that causes issues for my old man. Won't stop me from looking... but I'm covert about it. However, I stick to my guns that men WILL get upset when women exhibit the same traits and behaviors that men proclaim as their Basic Rights as men.
Walk Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 This discussion is not about porn or even male sexuality. Rather, we're talking around the perception of male power in sexual relationships and the female fear of sexual obsolescence and betrayal. Porn is not the enemy; men are. Exactly! (not that men are the enemy exactly) The issue isn't about porn. That's why the two sides will never agree. Women aren't asking men to stop being sexual creatures. Most simply want to be appreciated and desired. Porn is "in your face" and is easy to latch onto as an issue. But it isn't the real issue. Its fear of sexual obsolescence. A belief that value is placed on how women look, versus who we are. Porn highlights how great a value is placed on an exterior casing.
JackJack Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Good grief. OK I'll explain my view on it just like I have before. My wife and I have watched porn together. Not ALL the time but on occasions, just for something a little different. Have I watched it before by myself? Sure, however not really much since I've been married and I rarely watch porn much period. I find it a bit dull and boring and its the same old stuff, and I have seen my fair share of all kinds over my life. Now back to the visual thing. Yes, men are visual creatures, BUT, I think SOMETIMES that the visual card gets delt and used way to often as a justification for porn. I love to look at all kinds of women, do they have to be naked and in the doggie position for me to appreciate, their beautiful exsistence? NOPE. I DO NOT think there is anything wrong with men watching porn at times, by themselves or with their partner. Used as an escape to NOT deal with other issues going on that one might not want to address, that's a problem to me. If it were to replace the sex life over a real human beings body, that is also a problem. If my wife were to say to me, 'Jack, your porn usage is hurting me and our marraige I wish you wouldn't do it." YOU better know I wouldn't hesistate to stop". WHY? One reason, I do care what my wife thinks and how she feels. The importance of my relationship far outweighs that over the next naked video. Also, the fact that I find it rather boring anyway, may very well help my situation as it being a little easier to stop it if I were asked to. IMO, most women don't just wake up and are just cold and bitter creatures about porn. I would think it comes more so from not the porn usuage itself, but more so from their partners or spouses not listening to how they feel on certain issues, or told to just "accept" it because they are visual. As I said, I'm visual as well, but because I don't watch porn that much or find it boring doesn't make me any less visual or and less of of man because of it. It just means TO ME I find more relationships more important.
Mary3 Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 God dang it Mary. MOST MEN MOST MEN. It's illogical. I'm calling bunk. Most women do NOT suck at math because they're stupid women. Most women are not vigins who don't masturbate. Most women are not naturally monogamous. You're making leaps in logic that aren't there. By your logic, I'm a male. You aren't stating anything that will allow someone who isn't into porn to understand porn usage. My point was that the male brain is different than the female brain. Males respond to visual . You can send a female a c*** pic and she might be offended ( depending ) . Most males who see pictures or video have a physical response ( head to penis ) in their brains. That was my main point. If most males respond to porn its going to be difficult to change how their brain operates to NOT get stimulated by seeing sexual acts or nudity.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Men win, Women loose. We aren't important. We aren't vauable. It just matters what men want and need and what their sexuality means. Nice to see you be so reasonable. If you really, honestly feel this way, why are you in a relationship? Mr. Lucky
JackJack Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 The real message is no man is ever happy with what he has. It doesn't matter what kind of partner you are to a man because the pay off is that he will only see you as less exciting as time passes because you are aren't new. So who even wants to try anymore because the thank you a woman gets is a man replacing her every chance he gets. He won't care to make you feel special and beautiful and porn gets his loyaltly over the real woman. That is what most men want. Men win, Women loose. We aren't important. We aren't vauable. It just matters what men want and need and what their sexuality means. JS, I just think maybe you haven't met the right person yet. Not ALL men are like this. However, if you go through your life ALWAYS thinking they are, then that might just be the kind of men you're attracting into your life.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 I'm nuture verses nature proponent. I don't believe there is that huge of a gap between the two sides, but a large portion of it is due to how each gender is raised. Raise a girl like a boy, and you'd have male behaviors. Raise a boy like a girl, and you'll get the feminine male. I disagree and I think that there's much evidence to the contrary... Mr. Lucky Boys raised as girls find male identity-study by Gene Emery Reuters 21 January, 2004 BOSTON - The author of a new study on males born with a deformity of the penis known as cloacal exstrophy suggested on Wednesday that the children should be brought up as boys, not girls as doctors have recommended in the past. Many children with the condition had surgery to make them look like girls, and parents were told by doctors to treat them like girls and never reveal that, genetically, they were male. Study author, John Gearhart of Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore, called for a re-examination of those recommendations, saying: "We suggest (doctors) strongly consider counseling families to raise the children as males, and recommend penile reconstruction at a later age." Children with cloacal exstrophy may be born with little or no penis. The condition appears in one out of every 400,000 births. The study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, followed 16 cases and found that most of the children began behaving like boys no matter how they were raised. Of the 14 raised as girls, many resisted being dressed like girls after age 4. Four of the 14 declared themselves male between the ages of 7 and 12, before they learned they were born male. In three of the four cases, study co-author William Rainer told Reuters, the attitude shift took place within hours, sometimes minutes. One child whose first and middle name had a male variant immediately began using the male version of his name, said Rainer of Johns Hopkins and the University of Oklahoma. Four other children began thinking of themselves as males after being told they were genetically male, at ages ranging from 5 to 18. "They said, 'When mom and dad said I was a boy, it all made sense. Then I realized it was true. Then it just happened,'" Rainer recalled. "Children transition extraordinarily rapidly." Friends also seemed to have little trouble adapting to the shift because, in many cases, they already recognized that the child acted like a boy, said Rainer, a child psychiatrist and urologist. However, parents had a harder time, he said. In two of the four children who spontaneously declared themselves to be boys, their parents rejected their declarations. The remaining six children either regarded themselves as female or, in one case, would not discuss gender issues. Rainer said the decision by doctors to remove the testicles at birth and perform reconstructive surgery to make the child appear female was based on the belief that children are sexually and psychologically neutral at birth, and that gender is based on what the genitals look like and how they are raised. "Those are enormous assumptions," he said, noting that newer research suggests hormones released before birth have a major influence on subsequent sexuality.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 JS, I just think maybe you haven't met the right person yet. Not ALL men are like this. However, if you go through your life ALWAYS thinking they are, then that might just be the kind of men you're attracting into your life. Maybe. But I don't know how to attract the kind of guy I want then. I wish more men viewed the issue like you JackJack. Nice to see you be so reasonable. If you really, honestly feel this way, why are you in a relationship? Mr. Lucky Well, I am being resonable. I guess it's because I am a maschoist. I like pain. It feeds my artistic heart with struggle and angst. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]My point was that the male brain is different than the female brain. Males respond to visual . You can send a female a c*** pic and she might be offended ( depending ) . Most males who see pictures or video have a physical response ( head to penis ) in their brains. [/FONT][/COLOR] If men are more visual, as we've all heard a thousand times, what are women? More verbal? Can I call other men and have then talk dirty to me? Or even talk clean to me about buying me flowers and taking me on horse drawn caraige rides and buying me shoes? I don't know one man that would be okay with their SO fullfilling their verbal needs like this. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
Mr. Lucky Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 If men are more visual, as we've all heard a thousand times, what are women? More verbal? That's the first thing you've said that I've been able to agree with ... Mr. Lucky
JackJack Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 "Maybe. But I don't know how to attract the kind of guy I want then. I wish more men viewed the issue like you JackJack". Do you think part of it is, you already have your mind made up that ALL men are like this, to begin with, so you have that wall up to where you can't let it down just a little to possibly find out wheather they are or not? As far as others viewing this issue the way I do, I really think alot of it has to do with thhe fact porn just isn't that important to me, and maybe thats why my view with it is a little different. Personally, the porn I could take it or leave it. I do think some people have it backwards though, and would rahter take the porn and leave the relationship. Not literally meaning to "leave" it but, "leave" it hanging and problems unresolved,while enjoying more of what's on a screen than tending to what they got in real life.
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