Let's turn the whole porn thing around

[soserious1]

Jersey (or anyone):

 

Do you think there are ANY instances where porn use is appropriate? Healthy young guy (or girl) not in a relationship? Man locked up in a prison cell?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I've been thinking about a lot of this carefully, trying to decide how much of my marital problems stem from me since it does indeed take two to argue and problems are never one sided.

 

I grew up in the era where porn came in the form of magazines and grainy stag films, most men had their little stash but it was generally kept tucked away well enough that the kids wouldn't just happen to find it. "Locker room" talk about women was just that.. confined to sessions with other men.

 

Nowadays porn collections are openly bragged about in terabyte size, sexual slang terms are bandied about, 13 year olds use terms like "DP" etc.

 

I've been with men who wanted to know nothing about my menstral cycle.. that week was always "oral week" for the guy. I kept my feminine supplies tucked away out of sight, soiled things discretly discarded. As I aged, things like lubricant were also discretly tucked away,same thing for the vibrator during times that I had one.I was respectful of my partner's sensibilities around sexual/reproductive issues.

 

As to porn, I have always held that privacy is important, I would be really pissed if anyone was reading my email,checking thru my internet browser or rifling thru my personal belongings and I have avoided doing those things to my partners.

 

If you want to look at porn,you have that right... but I don't want to see it,

I don't want to get up after an intimate encounter that I thought was meant for me only to see porn on open display on your monitor. When I arrive home from work and you greet me with lust,when we're basking in the after glow, I really don't need for you to start talking about Paris Hilton's sex tape and your opinions of it.

 

In short, I favor a policy where if I don't ask, you don't tell and you respect my sensibilities in the same way that I respect yours.

[Lovelybird]

In short, I favor a policy where if I don't ask, you don't tell and you respect my sensibilities in the same way that I respect yours.

things aren't that easy. What is in one's heart, so what he speaks and act

 

If he fills his heart with porn star and perverted porn acts, he will speak to you and act it in bedroom. If he watchs violent porn, children porn, rape porn, he will act them in reality. If he habitually views women as sex object (porn watching), he will do so in real life

 

that's why Bible says "there isn't any hidden act will not be exposed", nothing a person can hide, really

[soserious1]

things aren't that easy. What is in one's heart, so what he speaks and act

 

If he fills his heart with porn star and perverted porn acts, he will speak to you and act it in bedroom. If he watchs violent porn, children porn, rape porn, he will act them in reality

 

that's why Bible says "there isn't any hidden act will not be exposed", nothing a person can hide, really

 

With all due respect I am not religious. I also do not lump things like child porn and violence into the same slot as enjoying a big titted college co-ed girl on girl action occasionally. Talking about the potentially damaging emotional effect this stuff can have on a marriage is very different than assuming that men are going to commit illegal acts.. and indulging in child porn is most definately against the law as is rape or other sexual violence.

[Lovelybird]

With all due respect I am not religious. I also do not lump things like child porn and violence into the same slot as enjoying a big titted college co-ed girl on girl action occasionally.

even you aren't religious, truth is truth.

 

what is in people's heart, so will they speak and act

 

so tolerance of porn will bite you later. What a person choose to feed their heart, what they will reap. If they feed their heart with bottomless lust, then their lust will increase, even their lust will develop to pervertion

 

The children sexual abuse is increasing than any other period of history, what contribute this? porn isn't only a matter of own problem, it does harms to society in a whole

[soserious1]

even you aren't religious, truth is truth.

 

what is in people's heart, so will they speak and act

 

so tolerance of porn will bite you later

 

The children sexual abuse is increasing than any other period of history, what contribute this? porn isn't only a matter of own problem, it does harms to society in a whole

 

There is a difference between embracing porn and endorsing it and simply deciding that not only is it impossible to censor another adults thoughts and tastes in reading material but that it is also a role you find utterly distasteful.

 

I have no desire to police or monitor a partner's internet activities or grill them mercilessly about their thoughts of other women, the very idea mortifies me.

 

As to porn it makes me uncomfortable for 2 reasons.

 

1. most main stream porn features young women who are so physically perfect that I'm hard pressed to compare myself to them and consider us both as women!

 

2. so called granny porn.. featuring women in my age group slaps me right dead between my eyes with the truth, those women are my age peers and the sight of then nude having sex is most unappetizing, they don't look good, they don't look good at all.. and if middle aged porn stars who are a cut above the average middle aged woman in looks don't look good.. even with stage makeup and help covering flaws then it stands to reason that physically I look even worse.

 

Both situations are more than depressing as they hit me right in the face, visual reminders of my own aging and my own mortality.

 

As to child abuse and sexual predators, those have been with us since mankind huddled together in caves, we hear about it more now due to increased communication via the web.. the entire world is just one big villiage now... we talk more openly about these things now, we publish lists of sex offenders and such.

[Lovelybird]

I didn't mean you should police them, but there are many things you can do to fight the porn thing. and attitude of tolerance of porn certainly isn't one of them. If every one of women refuses to date man who watches porn, what man will do? stop using them but there are many traitors

 

Life is about one fight after another, you can either face them and win one after another, or just follow the flow (sounds easy), but end up bitter and unfulfilled

[soserious1]

I didn't mean you should police them, but there are many things you can do to fight the porn thing. and attitude of tolerance of porn certainly isn't one of them. If every one of women refuses to date man who watches porn, what man will do? stop using them but there are many traitors

 

no, what they will do is try to hide it and to lie about it.

 

 

 

Back when I was young, men had their magazines,but these things were done quietly, magazines were tucked away, men had room to be men but it was fairly discrete, locker room talk didn't happen at the dinner table, young boys were pulled up short usually by other men with the admonishment "watch your mouth,their are ladies present" I hear teenagers and young adults saying things to and about each other out in the public that make my hair curl.

 

Men had a space in which they could be men in terms of exercising their need for visual stimulation... but without rubbing the faces of their wives,girlfriends,mothers and daughters in it.

[Lovelybird]

no, what they will do is try to hide it and to lie about it.

 

 

 

Back when I was young, men had their magazines,but these things were done quietly, magazines were tucked away, men had room to be men but it was fairly discrete, locker room talk didn't happen at the dinner table, young boys were pulled up short usually by other men with the admonishment "watch your mouth,their are ladies present" I hear teenagers and young adults saying things to and about each other out in the public that make my hair curl.

 

Men had a space in which they could be men in terms of exercising their need for visual stimulation... but without rubbing the faces of their wives,girlfriends,mothers and daughters in it.

then I have to ask God to watch him for me, if he watches porns, I pray to God that let him become soft, or pray to God let him change totally, if necessary I will fast until I get the result I want ! Fasting is important in God's eyes

[Mr. Lucky]

Does that make it right to have out bursts of emotion to torture my man with?

Every woman I've ever been in a relationship has, at one time or another, tortured me with outbursts of emotion ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LucreziaBorgia]

Soserious... your man is not the average man that I'm talking about. Your man is a typical abuser whom I would like to have a few minutes alone with, with no witnesses so that I could stomp his ass for what he has done to you and how he has poisoned your view on men and relationships. I have no tolerance for abuse, and what he has done to you is clearly abuse. I don't defend that type at all. Noticing a woman is one thing, but noticing it and making a point out of it in order to deliberately hurt someone is another thing.

 

many parts of the world men don't watch porn at all, are you suggesting they aren't man? instead of watching porn, they are devoting themselves to their wife and family and meaningful job, are you sugesting they aren't man?

 

I was talking about visual stimuli in general rather than just porn. Even the most devoted of men who don't watch porn, or look at magazines will still notice and appreciate attractive women. That does not mean that they don't love their family, or are deliberately eyeballing other women because they don't love their wife, nor is it any reflection on his loyalty. Men just simply notice attractive females. I'm not sure why that is such a threat to people. Just because others are attractive to a guy doesn't mean his SO isn't.

 

My question in general (not aimed at any one person) would be: why are women so threatened by other women, even in the absence of any real threat?

[Walk]

I was talking about visual stimuli in general rather than just porn. Even the most devoted of men who don't watch porn, or look at magazines will still notice and appreciate attractive women.

 

My question in general (not aimed at any one person) would be: why are women so threatened by other women, even in the absence of any real threat?

 

Over the course of a relationship the confirmation that you're a beautiful, sexually attractive partner tapers until it's at increasingly lower levels. I've been with my H for 5 years now. Initially 90% of the time I heard how sexy and attractive I was. Gradually it became 60% of the time, then 40%. Now I get positive words/actions that that tell my I'm sexy about 20% of our relationship. He watches sexy attractive women at least 30% of the time. Slowly the scales keep tipping in favor of porn... until eventually (I fear) porn will replace me as the sexual, attractive woman in his life.

 

That is where my jealousy stems from. A fear of losing something I value (the attention of my mate), to something I can't compete against. I can die my hair, change my clothes, change my weight, but ultimately I can't change who I am. Porn gives a man a fresh woman every day. I can't do that.

 

Even saying this... I feel I'm far more comfortable with porn then the average woman. Yet I still feel this way. How would it be for a woman who's man is even 20% less the gentleman that mine is?

[Adunaphel]

My question in general (not aimed at any one person) would be: why are women so threatened by other women, even in the absence of any real threat?

 

If we are talking about real women, I have no problem* if my partner notices that a woman is beautiful as long as I am sure he would not rather be with her, he does nothing to let her know, he does not blatantly oogles or stares, and does not try to flirt with her or to get to know her better.

I do the same with attractive men when I am in a relationship (and it sometimes costs me some effort not to act "girlish").

 

*It actually is not true. It *does* bug me, as I would love to be the only woman my partner could ever find attractive, but I do not hold it against him.

 

If we are talking about porn, it is my relationship being threatened, as I have huge issues with porn. Knowing that my partner watches it (unless he just does it once in a while and he somehow manages to convince me that he is fantasizing and/or masturbating thinking about the acts and NOT the women) is usually a huge turnoff for me, to the point that I stop enjoying having sex with him, and start fantasizing about having a relationship with a different person.

[Walk]

I was talking about visual stimuli in general rather than just porn. Even the most devoted of men who don't watch porn, or look at magazines will still notice and appreciate attractive women. That does not mean that they don't love their family, or are deliberately eyeballing other women because they don't love their wife, nor is it any reflection on his loyalty. Men just simply notice attractive females. I'm not sure why that is such a threat to people. Just because others are attractive to a guy doesn't mean his SO isn't.

 

The arguments (in this thread) are not very strong due to the fact that they ask women to grasp theories that aren't logical.

 

(I'm generalizing for the sake of argument, but obviously not every women is the same.)

 

For instance. Asking a woman to understand that men are visual creatures and must look at attractive things, dismisses that women are also visual and enjoy looking at attractive men.

 

Asking women to accept that men want different women and need to find them through porn ignores the fact that women would also enjoy the variety of different men but they refrain from using it in a way that hurts their spouse.

 

Asking a woman to accept that men are hard wired and cannot change their porn viewing is asking a woman to believe in the a new god called Ebested. You're feeding someone cod oil and telling them it'll cure their lung cancer. There is no argument. Only a statement of "accept this statement as fact and your troubles will magically dissapear".

 

I've talked to my H a great deal about how he thinks, I've grown up with only guys, I've served in the Marine Corps. I think I have a small grasp on how the male mind works. And ultimately what it comes down to is a double standard. (bear with me here)

 

From the time (some) women are little we've been conditioned that sex is, if not outright evil, then its not what "good girls" do. If we masturbate at all it's with guilt. We are forced into an asexual type existence where we are valued on our ability to create sexual excitment from the opposite sex, yet we're wrong for enjoying it. I think some of us get locked into a way of thinking that says we can't enjoy ourselves sexually WITHOUT a loving partner. God forbid we have a one night stand just for the pure pleasure of getting off. We'll have men dump us, we'll be scorned, we'll be branded as sluts. We're disfunctional for enjoying sex as much as men.

 

So you take all this conditioning, the inhibitive mindset regarding sex. Then take a man's mindset... there is no guilt (or very very limited amount) regarding masturbation. He's doing what he does best! He's a man, and men masturbate. Sexual conquests are bandied about in locker rooms. He's a man's man for exerting his sexual desires, and looked up to for it.

 

Crunch both of those mindsets into a relationship. You have a woman who has childhood repressions regarding sex, a man who's capable of expressing his sexuality in numerous ways (porn, looking, etc). It leads to a powder keg of issues and misunderstood statements. Men aren't more visual, they've just been allowed to express those desires in more visual ways. Men aren't hard wired to want variety any more then women, men have been commended for having many women (JFK, Clinton). Men aren't hard wired to believe differently. This isn't biological, it's parenting. If women were so monogamously minded, then why are there numerous threads of men being cheated on? If women were hard wired this way, then why would a woman ever have sex outside of a relationship (casual fling, fwb)? If women aren't visual creatures, then why do we care if men are hard-bodied? We'd be after the fat, bald, grotesque men regardless of how much was in their pocket books.

 

The arguments presented for why women should accept porn are flawed and that is why the discussion gets no where. Its not evolution, they aren't hared wired while women are not, they are not visual while women are not visual at all.

[grogster]

Men don't care if women accept porn.

 

This issue cannot be resolved through debate. In fact, it's resistant to rational discussion.

 

Each person is different. Each person's tolerance for her SO's porn consumption is based on a variety of factors: personality, temperment, perception of state of the relationship, how the guy views porn, sexual satisfaction, emotional satisfaction, abuse, etc.

 

Too many variables exist for any broad rules to apply. Personally, I'd live alone before I became involved with a woman who banned me from porn. I don't want to live with my Mother, again.

 

So if porn's a dealbreaker, let the guy know up front. Otherwise, you're in for a world of hurt.

[Jersey Shortie]

I somewhat agree with Walk. On her basic concept as a whole.

 

My question in general (not aimed at any one person) would be: why are women so threatened by other women, even in the absence of any real threat?

 

If we are going to excuse men's behavior based on biology, women deserve the same curtsey no? Other women are threatned by other women because other women are quite simply "threats". Men are attracted to other women. Everything begin with that attraction. The idea and the lust a man has towards another woman is a very biological and natural threat to a woman with a man because we understand that the first step to anything between a man and woman is attraction. You say there is an absense of any real threat, but there is never an absense of a threat. It is presented to varying degrees but the basic idea is always there. A man's interest in another female, when he has a female, is very naturally a threat to that female. Expecting a woman not to feel threatned is expecting a man not to be turned on by other women because both systems are created out of biology. You expect women to be accepting, more forgiving, more evovled and less biologically effected then men. But as the little woman I am suppose to smile and have 100% faith in my man even when he is eyeballing other potential prospects he clearly likes on some level.

 

I think men have less issue with their woman looking at other men and more issue with women being looked at by other men for the same biological reasons. If a man's woman went around dressed to show off her body, more men would be bothered and expect her to curb that then not. Are men as bothered by women looking at other men? probably not because it isn't as natural to the male /female dymanic. But ask how many men with wives and gfs like when their girlfriends dress to show off their breasts, ass or legs, and men have more of a fit with that.

[Walk]

Men don't care if women accept porn.

 

This issue cannot be resolved through debate. In fact, it's resistant to rational discussion.

 

So what I'm hearing is you don't have a rational argument, you're just saying "accept it or else"?

 

The rest of your post states that there are too many variables and you don't want to be controlled, so you call an end to the discussion.

 

 

So if porn's a dealbreaker, let the guy know up front. Otherwise, you're in for a world of hurt.

Would be nice if men were upfront about their porn use and level of normal usage of it. But I haven't met a man yet who was.

[PandorasBox]

Men don't care if women accept porn.

 

This issue cannot be resolved through debate. In fact, it's resistant to rational discussion.

 

Each person is different. Each person's tolerance for her SO's porn consumption is based on a variety of factors: personality, temperment, perception of state of the relationship, how the guy views porn, sexual satisfaction, emotional satisfaction, abuse, etc.

 

Too many variables exist for any broad rules to apply. Personally, I'd live alone before I became involved with a woman who banned me from porn. I don't want to live with my Mother, again.

 

So if porn's a dealbreaker, let the guy know up front. Otherwise, you're in for a world of hurt.

 

I agree, let the guy know upfront, its something that needs to be discussed before getting into a more serious realtionship later on.

 

This part though, "Men don't care if women accept porn."

 

Is almost like saying they don't care about a woman's feelings and they are going to do it come hell or high water. So therefore if a man is not going to care about how a woman feels on the matter, then yes that person is better off not being in a relationship at all, and just having a pure wank relationship with porn, than having a carring relationsip with a real human being.

[Mary3]

I still don't know why you would feel threatened by your husband watching two people * he doesn't even know * have sex ?

 

If your husband brought over a cup of sugar to the hot neighbor and he took one hour to do so, then you might be worried that he was over there too long and maybe he gave her more than sugar ?

 

But once again I state : Its all about trust. If your husband is watching porn he is watching it in the livingroom/bedroom. He is watching a video, getting stimulated, pulling out his manhood, receiving pleasure and then done. Who got hurt ?

 

You did right ? Why ? Unless he hasn't had sex with you in a week you have a right to be hurt * if * he wanks soooo much all his DNA is spent on the computer screen and not in you.

 

What is VERY threatening to me , to you , to everyone , is when he goes on the Adult dating sites , where everyone is clearly looking for sex, he signs up , pays for the site and is actively talking to a woman whom he is about to meet. He has web cam sex with her , phone calls and text. Now THATS threatening....

[Mary3]

I agree, let the guy know upfront, its something that needs to be discussed before getting into a more serious realtionship later on.

 

This part though, "Men don't care if women accept porn."

 

Is almost like saying they don't care about a woman's feelings and they are going to do it come hell or high water. So therefore if a man is not going to care about how a woman feels on the matter, then yes that person is better off not being in a relationship at all, and just having a pure wank relationship with porn, than having a carring relationsip with a real human being.

 

Wow I respect you alot but if no man agreees to no wanking and no porn then no man ( ? )would be in a relationship if that were the condition of the relationship.

 

Is there a middle ground on the wanking or the viewing ?

 

I'm being seriously realistic here. How many men here can PROMISE never again to masterbate to porn ? Never ever ? Or even masterbate to * thoughts * of women at any level ?

[PandorasBox]

Wow I respect you alot but if no man agreees to no wanking and no porn then no man ( ? )would be in a relationship if that were the condition of the relationship.

 

Is there a middle ground on the wanking or the viewing ?

 

I'm being seriously realistic here. How many men here can PROMISE never again to masterbate to porn ? Never ever ? Or even masterbate to * thoughts * of women at any level ?

 

 

Thats not even what I'm talking about. I didn't say men could never wank to porn. I was saying if they don't care how a woman feels, then they are better off without a woman. If a woman doesn't want to be with a man because of hisd porn use, then don't, and she is probably better off without a man who watches it if it bothers her. If a man doesn't care if a woman accepts it or not, then he is better off not being in a relationship.

[Jersey Shortie]

Whenever I read the title of this thread "lets turn the whole porn thing around", I think about the hokey pokey:

 

Put your left foot in,

Your left foot out,

Your left foot in,

And shake it all about.

You do the hokey pokey

And turn yourself around.

That's what it's all about.

 

Put your porn in,

take your porn out,

Put your porn in,

And shake it all about.

Yuo do the porny porny

And turn yoruself around.

that's what it's all about.

 

Now I jsut want to throw it all in the middle and give up with men. A La'more.

[Mary3]

I've been thinking about a lot of this carefully, trying to decide how much of my marital problems stem from me since it does indeed take two to argue and problems are never one sided.

 

I grew up in the era where porn came in the form of magazines and grainy stag films, most men had their little stash but it was generally kept tucked away well enough that the kids wouldn't just happen to find it. "Locker room" talk about women was just that.. confined to sessions with other men.

 

Nowadays porn collections are openly bragged about in terabyte size, sexual slang terms are bandied about, 13 year olds use terms like "DP" etc.

 

I've been with men who wanted to know nothing about my menstral cycle.. that week was always "oral week" for the guy. I kept my feminine supplies tucked away out of sight, soiled things discretly discarded. As I aged, things like lubricant were also discretly tucked away,same thing for the vibrator during times that I had one.I was respectful of my partner's sensibilities around sexual/reproductive issues.

 

As to porn, I have always held that privacy is important, I would be really pissed if anyone was reading my email,checking thru my internet browser or rifling thru my personal belongings and I have avoided doing those things to my partners.

 

If you want to look at porn,you have that right... but I don't want to see it,

I don't want to get up after an intimate encounter that I thought was meant for me only to see porn on open display on your monitor. When I arrive home from work and you greet me with lust,when we're basking in the after glow, I really don't need for you to start talking about Paris Hilton's sex tape and your opinions of it.

 

In short, I favor a policy where if I don't ask, you don't tell and you respect my sensibilities in the same way that I respect yours.

 

Okay what you said : One time my bf was talking to some girl at 3 am and then he came in the room with an erection. I was disgusted . Because he was messing around with a real girl. We ended the relationship soon after that. If my bf watched some porn , got turned on and came in the bedroom I would not be as happy if he came in the room and looked at me and got turned on. I get what you are saying . How about he just watch porn , get himself satisfied and leave me out of it ?

So the connection to porn comes back to a private one. If I watch porn I do it privately. If the bf watches porn he does it privately. I don't dig the couples watch it together stuff. I just dont. Some here might . To each his own...

[manugeorge]

A man may not even watch porn but you still can't control what he fantasizes about no matter how hard you want to which is what it sounds like some women want. "I want him to think about me and ONLY me, I want to be the only object of his fantasies"...ahem..good luck with that.

 

And because we have fortunately being created not to read minds, there is no way you can ever know if he's thinking about you while wanking off or not. He could be thinking of his co-worker or his boss or the mail lady for all you know.

 

So it is esentially a losing battle for these women and will always be the source of frustration until they end up in the looney bin. Frankly, I think people who seek this kind of mental control do belong in a looney bin:D

[Mary3]

Thats not even what I'm talking about. I didn't say men could never wank to porn. I was saying if they don't care how a woman feels, then they are better off without a woman. If a woman doesn't want to be with a man because of hisd porn use, then don't, and she is probably better off without a man who watches it if it bothers her. If a man doesn't care if a woman accepts it or not, then he is better off not being in a relationship.

 

Yes I understand. Okay lets say he likes to pleasure himself with porn. She does not like it. Whats the next step ?

 

What percentage of men like to play with themselves in Porn in the United States ? What percentage will stop because they are hurting their girlfriends ? Honestly ?

[Mary3]

A man may not even watch porn but you still can't control what he fantasizes about no matter how hard you want to which is what it sounds like some women want. "I want him to think about me and ONLY me, I want to be the only object of his fantasies"...ahem..good luck with that.

 

And because we have fortunately being created not to read minds, there is no way you can ever know if he's thinking about you while wanking off or not. He could be thinking of his co-worker or his boss or the mail lady for all you know.

 

So it is esentially a losing battle for these women and will always be the source of frustration until they end up in the looney bin. Frankly, I think people who seek this kind of mental control do belong in a looney bin:D

 

EXACTLY what I am thinking ! Listen ladies , for those of you hurt by porn....Unless he is a priest or a monk , ( and maybe even they have naughty thoughts , not sure ) men DO think about things while they are having sex with you. ITs all about the Brain of a MAN. If you are a woman , your brain is wired different. You cannot biologically re~wire the mans brain. Sure he could consciously decide to NEVER wank again to Porn. How about 3 years later ? How is he doing ?