Walk Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 And I completely disagree with this advice. (No offense at all Gemini - I totally respect your position... I just beg to differ.) The LAST thing a man wants to do is TALK about it - especially when he's already feeling pressure from you. And he is not responsible for your insecurities. You are. You're putting a head trip on him. That may be why he's messing around about the ring thing. Again. I disagree with you OpenBook. My H had concerns about marriage that wouldn't have been resolved if we hadn't discussed them. If distancing myself resulted in marriage then I would assume it was a commitment made out of fear. Which isn't a great way to start a life together. The one thing i know about my relationship, is sometimes without comunication we would fail. My H feared broching the subject with me because he was concerned I would react negatively. So it was up to me to introduce the topic in a safe way. His fears/concerns were about me and marriage, if I'd acted indifferent to his fears, we would've stayed bf/gf until one of us got sick of the stalemate and left.
OpenBook Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 I disagree with you OpenBook. My H had concerns about marriage that wouldn't have been resolved if we hadn't discussed them. If distancing myself resulted in marriage then I would assume it was a commitment made out of fear. Which isn't a great way to start a life together. The one thing i know about my relationship, is sometimes without comunication we would fail. My H feared broching the subject with me because he was concerned I would react negatively. So it was up to me to introduce the topic in a safe way. His fears/concerns were about me and marriage, if I'd acted indifferent to his fears, we would've stayed bf/gf until one of us got sick of the stalemate and left. I completely agree that IN A MARRIAGE effective communication is a key ingredient to making it a successful partnership. Totally with you on that. But LB isn't married. When you're still in the dating world, the rules are completely different. Both LB and her BF are still free agents unto themselves, regardless of the promises or implied commitments they've made to each other. One has to look out for oneself first, out there in the jungle!
Walk Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 I completely agree that IN A MARRIAGE effective communication is a key ingredient to making it a successful partnership. Totally with you on that. But LB isn't married. When you're still in the dating world, the rules are completely different. Both LB and her BF are still free agents unto themselves, regardless of the promises or implied commitments they've made to each other. One has to look out for oneself first, out there in the jungle! Sorry if I was unclear. My H had concerns prior to getting married. We weren't married at the time. And we wouldn't be married now if we hadn't talked about it before getting married. Also.. how do you expect to effectively commicate if it is never practiced prior to marriage? Should it spontaneously occur post wedding day? That both people will suddenly understand how the other speaks and thinks and frame their ideas and thoughts in a way that will make the other understand? Personally, I think communication takes a lot of trial and error, which should be done during dating... not after the wedding.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 This is crazy, why is harping on LB's relationship the popular thing to do around here I feel like there is some sort of urge here to make LB feel worried and insecure in her R, when she shouldn't! I think her bf wanted to do something sweet and special for LB and he thought a promise ring would be a great way to put a smile on her face. How does this turn in to him not wanting to marry her?! Her bf is slightly dense when it comes to understanding how women/LB feel about rings but that doesn't take away from the good intentions. And maybe he wanted to have her try on rings so he has something to reference in the future when he buys her THE ring. Since an engagement ring is a huge purchase maybe he wanted to size her up and see what she liked? I feel like if this same thing was posted by a different poster the replies would have been different. Yeah, I think that this thread would have been completely different if someone else had posted it.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 It sounds more like you want to catch this guy and not let him run away. Just get married. And I don't even think you like this guy very much.. You had a thread not long ago saying how depressed you were. If you just move in with the love of your life you are in 7th heaven, not depressed. Nothing would get you depressed. Seems to me that you want to convince yourself and everyone else that you have the perfect relationship and that you are so happy. If you actually read my thread you would see that I said I was depressed because my best friend moved to California. Actually moving in with my bf was the one thing I have done since graduating that has made me happy(besides my job). Actually we don't have the perfect relationship, so I'm not being real convincing I guess.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 I completely agree that IN A MARRIAGE effective communication is a key ingredient to making it a successful partnership. Totally with you on that. But LB isn't married. When you're still in the dating world, the rules are completely different. Both LB and her BF are still free agents unto themselves, regardless of the promises or implied commitments they've made to each other. One has to look out for oneself first, out there in the jungle! Walk also said this, but you have to have effective communication in ANY relationship (friendship, romance, family, ect). "Rules of relationships" is why people get divorced. You live by your own rules and compromises for your specific relationship. I actually don't consider myself a "free agent" I am in a committed relationship and living with the man I wish to marry someday.
Touche Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Yeah, I think that this thread would have been completely different if someone else had posted it. You really think so? I don't. This is more of the "insecure" stuff rearing it's ugly head. You're implying that people's opinions on here are "personal." I'd venture to say that most are NOT. My assessment certainly wasn't. And I don't think most people's on here are. Most are just going by the situation at hand and not the people involved. Do you not understand that? Most of us don't even know you. Or your b/f. LB, you're a sweet girl I think but I'm getting some "narcissistic" vibes all of a sudden with the post above.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 You really think so? I don't. This is more of the "insecure" stuff rearing it's ugly head. You're implying that people's opinions on here are "personal." I'd venture to say that most are NOT. My assessment certainly wasn't. And I don't think most people's on here are. Most are just going by the situation at hand and not the people involved. Do you not understand that? Most of us don't even know you. Or your b/f. LB, you're a sweet girl I think but I'm getting some "narcissistic" vibes all of a sudden with the post above. Nothing narcissistic at all, I don't think some of the posts would have been as harsh if it would have been another person starting this thread, because some posters clearly have the wrong idea about some things in our relationship.
Touche Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Nothing narcissistic at all, I don't think some of the posts would have been as harsh if it would have been another person starting this thread, because some posters clearly have the wrong idea about some things in our relationship. I get that you think that. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Clearly it matters not to you that some have been where you are or that some recognize what you're going through. Your situation speaks of problems down the road. This is not personal. This has nothing to do with who you are. I really, really, wish you the best in life. But I don't think you found your "one." Hey, I didn't find mine until I was 33. I'd just hate to see you waste years like I did...whether you marry or not. I sure hope I'm wrong, JB. One question...and don't laugh. What do your mother and/or father say about this relationship?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 One question...and don't laugh. What do your mother and/or father say about this relationship? They like my BF. They say he is very polite and well mannered and when they see us together they say we look happy. My mom knows we argue sometimes, but that's no huge surprise as there are arguments in any relationship. Why do you ask?
Star Gazer Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 It's interesting to view reactions to posters who are agreeing and disagreeing with the OP. You seem to react negatively to those who you feel are not agreeing with you. It's just an observation, but I'm noticing a pattern in this thread along with others. So LB, instead of argue its better to agree to disagree with the person. Getting defensive and upset over posts does not help you or anyone else for that matter. Thanks for your input on your own situation, LB.
Art_Critic Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Yeah, I think that this thread would have been completely different if someone else had posted it. I partially agree with you LB.. I'm sure it wouldn't change the final outcome of how the OP thinks about her situation but it certainly would change a few posters posts.. All people that start threads have to take the good advice that they feel fits them and use it and just ignore or not use the advice that doesn't fit or not use the advice just posted to take shots at them.. With such a wide variety of people posting here a poster gets all kinds of advice from all different viewpoints.. That is what is good about LS...
Star Gazer Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 I'll ask you again, since you conveniently avoided the topic. You wrote the following to Grn in this very thread. If someone else had said this to you - actually, like many people here already have - how would you respond? I know it's difficult to deal with, but maybe this man isnt the "one" for you. He clearly has some issues with marriage, most likely which wont get resolved. It doesn't sound to me like he is too big on committment, and if that is something you want then maybe you really should take a step back from the relationship and persue other options.
Touche Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 They like my BF. They say he is very polite and well mannered and when they see us together they say we look happy. My mom knows we argue sometimes, but that's no huge surprise as there are arguments in any relationship. Why do you ask? No reason, dear. You're right.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 No reason, dear. You're right. It's nice to, because his parents really like me. His mom is SO sweet, we get along so well. That is something that is important to me, because my ex bf's family HATED me and didn't approve of me coming to any holidays. So I'm glad that he has such a great family.
Touche Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 That's good, LB. Because that is really, really important. It is. It's great that you get along with his parents. But what's more important is that your family thinks you chose the right person. I didn't used to think that. But damn. My mom was right. Listen to your mother, ok? I don't even get along with her that well but of everyone in my life, she was always the one to call it right. One's mother will always call it right, in my view. Always. So that's why I asked.
StartingOver07 Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 LB, I agree that some of the posts here have been personalized. I think you know which those are and I would take those with a grain of salt. That said, I find the whole "promise ring" thing a bit disconcerting, as I do your bf's later assertion that he did it to cheer you up. Perhaps I am jaded because I have never understood the point of a promise ring, but it strikes me that you are both too old for this, not to mention that you are already living together. Is this where I should say that I do not see any value in living together? Statistically, couples who live together first have a higher rater of divorce than those who don't. Perhaps this is because of the "trying it on" aspect of living together rather than full on commitment. In any case, my personal views aside, my sense is that you see living together as a prelude to marriage whereas your bf sees living together as a test for marriage. I do not think you are in agreement about what living together means. Yes, I understand that you had a conversation prior to moving in together, but I don't think there would have been any way for your BF to express himself any differently than he did. You've been dating for 2 years. If your bf does not know by now whether he wants to marry you, what do you suppose will change in year 3 or 4 or... ?
Kamille Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 According to this study, LB seems to be on the good side of social trends: For all women, 39% of cohabitation relationships end in 3 years, and of those remaining, 58% turn to marriage. 49% of cohabitation relationships end in 5 years, and of those remaining, 70% turn to marriage. The percentage that turn to marriage within 5 years are 75% for White women, 61% for hispanic women, and 48% for Black women and then cohabitation is only one factor, and there's only a 6% differential (which is significant, but not the most significant factor). Divorce is more likely when women marry at a younger age (48% of brides married before age 18 divorce in 10 years, compared to 24% married at age 25 or later), have a lower level of education, come from a single-parent home (12% more likely), were raped (same for all three ethnic groups), suffer from GAD, had a child before marriage or within 7 months of the marriage, and cohabitated before marriage (18% for non-cohabitators versus 24% for cohabitators) I think religious beliefs (a factor sited elsewhere in the stats) play an important part in that religious people are less likely to cohabit before marriage and then less likely to break the "sacrament" of marriage once they've entered a marriage.
allina Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 I still don't understand something here, I'm being honest not trying to be argumentative. LB and her bf have been together for just under two years, they are in their mid 20's and JUST moved in together. How is it a negative thing or a bad sign that he hasn't proposed yet?! They just started their post-college life like 3 months ago?! He's not rushing it, they're both young, this seems normal, not the behavior of a guy who doesn't think she's the one. I'm not saying I agree w/ LB 100%. I am her age and have also been with my SO for 2 years, living together for over a year, and my feelings on marriage and my relationship are near opposite. I don't think this is LB's bf's fault. She just seems like a sweet girl who sort of fits the stereotype of the woman who loves her bf and drams of marring him. She seems to be a little anxious about the future and getting things sorted out and clear.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 Is this where I should say that I do not see any value in living together? Statistically, couples who live together first have a higher rater of divorce than those who don't. Perhaps this is because of the "trying it on" aspect of living together rather than full on commitment. Well, it's my opinion that men don't usually cohabitate with the intent as a prelude to marriage, otherwise they would just propose and be done with it. There were a lot of factors that went in to our decision. It's not so much a "test the waters" type deal, we actually had spend enough time together staying over for prolonged periods of time (like a month for xmas break) to know what living together would be like. It was right at the time for us, and so far it has been great. We are able to compromise and pay bills, handle chores, ect. with no arguments or anything. Sure we have had fights, but thats what happens when you live under one roof. You've been dating for 2 years. If your bf does not know by now whether he wants to marry you, what do you suppose will change in year 3 or 4 or... ? He said he wants our relationship to work out and for us to get married..but he isn't ready to take that step yet. I don't know why he isn't ready, I think he may be scared. I see what you are saying though, and it does scare me a little to think that in 2 years we will be in the same place. Like I said, when our lease needs renewed I'll see where he is with the whole thing and maybe find my own place and get a little more independence. I don't believe in ultimatums, but I do want to be with someone who wants the same things I do. And if he doesn't then as heart wrenching as it may be, I will need to move on. I don't want to be one of those girls in a 7 year relationship still waiting for a proposal.
Ariadne Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 we actually had spend enough time together staying over for prolonged periods of time (like a month for xmas break) Ah, and that's when the pushing for the ring started the first time around. Btw, I think that people break up when they live together because they find out what a bad match they really are, not because of not commitment.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 Ah, and that's when the pushing for the ring started the first time around. Btw, I think that people break up when they live together because they find out what a bad match they really are, not because of not commitment. No, he asked me if I wanted jewelry for xmas, I said possibly a ring. I showed him some in a catelog, he chose not to get me one, I didnt say anything else about it. (of course I was upset, but I didn't let him know that). Yes, that's very true what you said about people finding out they are a bad match. I lived with my ex bf and after he repeatedly lied to me I realized we were a bad match and we broke up. If we hadn't lived together we'd probably be married now most likely. Damn good thing we aren't.
Ariadne Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 (of course I was upset, but I didn't let him know that). Some people hide their feelings from their partners thinking that is a good thing to do. Not sure that's really that great idea myself.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Posted August 30, 2008 Some people hide their feelings from their partners thinking that is a good thing to do. Not sure that's really that great idea myself. Oh it's not. I always say that it is best to express your feelings about something. I just meant I didn't flip out on him and make him feel bad about it. That would have caused more harm then good.
Touche Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Some people hide their feelings from their partners thinking that is a good thing to do. Not sure that's really that great idea myself. I was actually thinking the same thing. This goes back to what I said before about just putting your cards on the table. Like I was saying about the whole promise ring thing. Why not just ask him? I can't imagine not being able to tell my H how I feel about things and hiding my feelings. It would drive me nuts. I'd be like "Where the hell is my ring? What was all that nonsense about showing you rings in a catalogue. ":laugh:
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