Request for comments - ex makes half-hearther attempts to come back...

[movingonandon]

Hi, I've posted a couple of times here, at different stages in post-breakup coping (girlfriend of 5 years dumps me, and a week later hooks up with a good "friend" of hers. No, I don't think che technically cheated on me with him before ending things, but it does not matter - she was getting close to this guy for months and once she was out of the door went and did it).

 

Anyway. As expected, 2 months later she has second thoughts and contacts me. This is something I expected and perhaps even welcomed, though it was a disaster. In short, she wants to come back, but shows absolutely no trace of actual remorse or guilt. Instead, the focused on how she felt and what made her do it, and will I ever be able to understand etc. I admit that we really had a rough patch, and I understand how she felt pushed away, insecure, I'm retty tough to be around with my forceful personality etc., but that's NO excuse, and that's NO way to talk, especially if she wants to come back. Moreover, she knows I love her and I hever deliberately mistreated her. Unfortunately, she really does not seem to understand how such betrayal is inexcusable. (I am not talking baout the actual act - it really does not bother me that much - but the implications of such behavior are HUGE.)

 

That said, for the most part her attempt is quite lucid and emotionally competent (if it wasn't for the lack of acknowledgement of how she hurt me). Basically, she says she loves me and really wants to give it a second try, but in saying that, essentially she washes her hands and leaves it to me to decide whether to take her back. So although I obvioulsy I still have feelings for her, I was quite rude and ambivalent in my response, and I told her that this is a major betrayal and there is absolutely NO point in us talking AT ALL while she's still with that guy. Moreover, even if she dumps him and kills herself trying to prove herself, i cannot guarantee I'll ever be able to love her again. So essentially she has the choice to take a huge risk for an uncertain payoff or stick with the greazy moron she's currently with. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again, but i think this was the right thing to do, no?

[CaliGuy]

Until she shows actual remorse, I wouldn't even consider taking her back. She walked away from you INSTEAD of sitting you down and talking about how she feels. Don't you deserve to know if something is really that bad? I mean, if this is how she is behaving now, it will only get worse if you were to get married or something.

 

She needs to EARN you back. She's not attempting to earn you back. She's just fishing the waters to make sure she can come back, scott free and without any embarrassment, if she decides to do so.

 

Do you love and respect yourself? What would you do if you were married and she pulled this? Love and respect yourself first and make sure that YOUR needs are being met. If she isn't meeting them (and she isn't with this kind of behavior), I woulds simply walk away.

 

If she really really wanted you, she would be breaking down doors to get to you. She would be apologizing for her behavior. She isn't doing that. Instead she is JUSTIFYING her behavior. To me, that is not regret or remorse. That's just making excuses.

[movingonandon]

Until she shows actual remorse, I wouldn't even consider taking her back. She walked away from you INSTEAD of sitting you down and talking about how she feels. Don't you deserve to know if something is really that bad? I mean, if this is how she is behaving now, it will only get worse if you were to get married or something.

 

She needs to EARN you back. She's not attempting to earn you back. She's just fishing the waters to make sure she can come back, scott free and without any embarrassment, if she decides to do so.

 

Do you love and respect yourself? What would you do if you were married and she pulled this? Love and respect yourself first and make sure that YOUR needs are being met. If she isn't meeting them (and she isn't with this kind of behavior), I woulds simply walk away.

 

If she really really wanted you, she would be breaking down doors to get to you. She would be apologizing for her behavior. She isn't doing that. Instead she is JUSTIFYING her behavior. To me, that is not regret or remorse. That's just making excuses.

 

Thanks man. This is very therapeutic to hear - no, I am not looking for justifiation for my behavior or to deal with regrets (although of course I regret being abrupt/ambivalent, even though it was within reason...). In short, I'd love to make the effort to work things out, but can't do that on my own without someone meeting me halfway/all the way. The reason I'm sad is precisely because although i still miss her, there is absolutely no way this could work out without a major effort to demonstrate change - she does not seem to understand that this is not about "pride", but about me making a life changing "buying decision".

 

(On a separate, and more general note, it seems that there are some women for whom love is something that is completely outside of the realms of everyday life and so everyday life considerations are irrelevant - "This wouldn't matter that much if you really loved me", or alternatively "I couldn't help my emotions/my feelings justify/explain it"). These are not exact quotes, but pretty close...

[CaliGuy]

I dunno man. You have to consider what is best for you. If she really doesn't seem remorseful about all of this, you'll find yourself back to square one if you take her back.

 

She is the one who needs to earn your love and trust back, not the other way around.

[nowhereman82]

Wow

 

This is almost word for word what happened and is happening to me. We were together for 5 years. Except my ex has apologized and been pretty communicative on everything.

 

She is curious if things would work for us but she is worried she will hurt me so that holds her back.

 

I have read here a lot over the months and basically don't know how to proceed other than be cautious and to take things slow, and to be sure to communicate before getting invested.

 

I can't wait to read more feedback on your subject. It will hopefully give me some insight.

[wareagle]

My ex did the same thing to me at one time. I knew she was getting friendly with a guy at work ( just how friendly I wouldn't find out till later) so one day she starts picking little fights with me. It was like she was trying to push me over the edge where I would have no option but to break up with her! Well guess what? She did push me over the edge and I ended it!

 

So after about two weeks of little contact mainly through text, and seeing her at work, she texts me one night asking me if there was anything she could have done while we were apart that would be a deal breaker for us getting back together. Of course I knew what she was talking about, and my dumbass said no!!

 

So after she showed great remorse and regret and shed alot of tears I agreed to take her back! After a short period all the regret and remorse turned into blaming me for her sleeping with someone else, because I was the one who dumped her!! Saying she had no regrets, saying that she wouldn't have known what she would have done if this guy hadn't been there for her! It was all horse****!! I honestly believe that she pushed me to end things so she could out and **** this guy and not feel guilty cause I was the one who ended things!

 

I think this may be the case in your situation, so I would tread lightly and think long and hard about wanting her back! I know if I had it to do all over again I would have stayed gone!!!!!

[movingonandon]

Wow

 

This is almost word for word what happened and is happening to me. We were together for 5 years. Except my ex has apologized and been pretty communicative on everything.

 

She is curious if things would work for us but she is worried she will hurt me so that holds her back.

 

I have read here a lot over the months and basically don't know how to proceed other than be cautious and to take things slow, and to be sure to communicate before getting invested.

 

I can't wait to read more feedback on your subject. It will hopefully give me some insight.

 

 

Well, if it's the same situation, apparently I can't help you

But, if she has dumped whoever bum she was with and is actually *persistently* working on getting you back, why not give it a shot?

Why is she worried that "she'd hurt you"??? Does she not understand the consequences of her actions, and if not, how hard it is to refrain from hurtful actions?

 

One of the things I asked (obviously) the girl in question was how does she think makes me feel? To which she responded with a laundry list of the expected feelings, said with an intonation as if she was reading an actual laundry list (we talked on the phone). Maybe it's unfair of me to put too much weight on intonation in phone conversation, but I've heard her get worked up about me and my "suscpicious behavior" and it was way more intense...

 

Judging from what I've read here, the odds are against you (and me), but you neve know, you might get lucky and actually get something worthwhile out of this.

[movingonandon]

My ex did the same thing to me at one time. I knew she was getting friendly with a guy at work ( just how friendly I wouldn't find out till later) so one day she starts picking little fights with me. It was like she was trying to push me over the edge where I would have no option but to break up with her! Well guess what? She did push me over the edge and I ended it!

 

So after about two weeks of little contact mainly through text, and seeing her at work, she texts me one night asking me if there was anything she could have done while we were apart that would be a deal breaker for us getting back together. Of course I knew what she was talking about, and my dumbass said no!!

 

So after she showed great remorse and regret and shed alot of tears I agreed to take her back! After a short period all the regret and remorse turned into blaming me for her sleeping with someone else, because I was the one who dumped her!! Saying she had no regrets, saying that she wouldn't have known what she would have done if this guy hadn't been there for her! It was all horse****!! I honestly believe that she pushed me to end things so she could out and **** this guy and not feel guilty cause I was the one who ended things!

 

I think this may be the case in your situation, so I would tread lightly and think long and hard about wanting her back! I know if I had it to do all over again I would have stayed gone!!!!!

 

 

Crap, yes, does sound familiar. The girl in question did not go on the offensive like the one you describe - she has generally always treated me great, with so much affection that my friends would get jealous; but she would occasionally have these huge fits of unbelievable, unexplained, and quite frankly - scary, jealousy fits that would resurface every couple of months or so (with no provocation at all from my side - or so I'd think. She still does not believe me that I've been going to the movies alone when I was living temporarily in a new city with no friends and way too much work...). Guess what, some of the particulalry bad jealocy episodes came exactly at the time she was apparently getting close with this guy.

 

She will probably never contact me again, and I will still think that she's great, and will misse her in spite of all this, but she has SO MANY ISSUES, that right now I am mostly really worried that she is well on her way to ruin her life

[sparkleson]

Oh my god, this sounds exactly like me, I did the exact same thing to my boyfriend... He WILL not take me back, I know he loves me im sure of it, but we have so many issues the reason i left him was because he never really showed me effection i actually thought u where him then i thought nagh he would never go on a site like this.... But you have made me see how i have hurt his pride and why he wont take me back, he actually just keeps saying no..Can you answer me then ..Why does he ring me everyday why did he lie on the couch on sunday with me and cuddle up yet when i asked him for the third time on monday did he feel any different he said no?..I'm confused,should i just let go?... I can see it from your point of view and I was the same i felt i just couldnt talk to him but now im sorry i didnt, you know i said the same i was like the reason i did it WASSsssssssssssssss but maybe you should ask her why she felt she did it i can totally see her point she obviously felt something was wrong and wanted you to show her effection so got frustrated and left thats what happened to me but it wasnt the other guy i really wanted it was him...I would say she feels the same....do i make sense?

[CaliGuy]

Folks, ACTIONS speak much louder than words. If they are not acting like they want to be with you and saying they are, you now understand what is going on.

 

Never believe what they say, always believe what they do. The mouth always lies but actions, actions tell truth.

[nowhereman82]

Folks, ACTIONS speak much louder than words. If they are not acting like they want to be with you and saying they are, you now understand what is going on.

 

Never believe what they say, always believe what they do. The mouth always lies but actions, actions tell truth.

 

 

Basically the conclusion I came to with my situation. If I make the first move it sets a precedent and she could just go along for the ride so to say.

 

If she makes the first move then it forces her to assess it and decide she wants to try.

 

We have been having some really good communication regarding what our issues were and why things were the way they were in our relationship. It's been very insightful at the very least and I appreciate it.

 

If anything comes of it, that's coo. If not....it's put my mind at rest and I know how to be better in future relationships.

[blackandblue]

You should always look at past behavior as a predictor of future behavior. If she does this to you once (and gets away with it) chances are, she'll do it again.

[movingonandon]

Oh my god, this sounds exactly like me, I did the exact same thing to my boyfriend... He WILL not take me back, I know he loves me im sure of it, but we have so many issues the reason i left him was because he never really showed me effection i actually thought u where him then i thought nagh he would never go on a site like this.... But you have made me see how i have hurt his pride and why he wont take me back, he actually just keeps saying no..Can you answer me then ..Why does he ring me everyday why did he lie on the couch on sunday with me and cuddle up yet when i asked him for the third time on monday did he feel any different he said no?..I'm confused,should i just let go?... I can see it from your point of view and I was the same i felt i just couldnt talk to him but now im sorry i didnt, you know i said the same i was like the reason i did it WASSsssssssssssssss but maybe you should ask her why she felt she did it i can totally see her point she obviously felt something was wrong and wanted you to show her effection so got frustrated and left thats what happened to me but it wasnt the other guy i really wanted it was him...I would say she feels the same....do i make sense?

 

well, the fact that he contacts you makes it different. I can understand why he does it - I also still do not want to let go, want to make sure she's ok etc. - but that's just bad idea and sets the bad precedent nowhereman mentions. In fact, i think that that wormulation should be pinned/sticked somewhere in the second chances forum so everybody reads it.

 

Speaking of which, this is exactly the way I'm thinking right now: when things get that rotten, it really depends on very particular actions and choices that the two sides make. It is no longer "If we love each other, we will find a way to work it out". All bets are off. We might get back together, or we might not. My and her feelings are only one, and no longer the most important variable in this.

 

It might be a far-fetched analogy, but think of the cuban missile crisis - none of the two sides seriously wanted a nuclear hollocaust, but if some different choices were made - and this means very particular adminsitrative decisions on the US side, not major policy shifts - it WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

 

Same here, somehting as simple as demonstrating at least basic ability to emphatize could lead to attempts to reconciliation, or eliminate any possibility of that happening.

 

As for our issues, I made some mistakes, but they were mistakes that all guys make at some point: being overly critical, bossy at times, not always affectionate (but then again - very affectionate at times) . These are annoying things, but none of that warrants a break-up, especially given that I acknowledged them and was trying to work on them. She even acknowledged that it was "hard" for her to do it seeing me so happy around her. The true reason were her own issues, most notably paranoid jealocy, insecurities, and making the irresponsible choice to hang out with somebody else.

 

Yes, as caliguy says, actions speak louder than words, and her running into the hands of somebody else is all I can "hear" though she now says she loves me.

[movingonandon]

Basically the conclusion I came to with my situation. If I make the first move it sets a precedent and she could just go along for the ride so to say.

 

If she makes the first move then it forces her to assess it and decide she wants to try.

 

We have been having some really good communication regarding what our issues were and why things were the way they were in our relationship. It's been very insightful at the very least and I appreciate it.

 

If anything comes of it, that's coo. If not....it's put my mind at rest and I know how to be better in future relationships.

 

 

well put... it's like negotiating with terrorists. It is very tempting to do it because you really want to save whatever is at stake/held hostage, but if you do it, you only set the stage for a future disaster.

(I guess the extension of the analogy is that if the terrorist (messed up girlfriend) surrenders and fully cooperates with the law enforcement, she might get a deal and early release and have most of the sentence probated

 

At least you're talking constructively, it seems. If so, I'm jealous. As I said in the initial post, I seriouslly doubt that I'l ever hear from her again - she will interpret my insistence that what she did is a betrayal as the same kind of obstinance that pushed her away from me long before she cheated on me (which it is obviously not). I can see her just shrugging her shoulders and saying "well, he'll just never understand me, and apparently he doesn't really love me, never did, etc.)

[movingonandon]

so got frustrated and left thats what happened to me but it wasnt the other guy i really wanted it was him...I would say she feels the same....do i make sense?

 

That's still not an excuse, sorry, but that's a very imature thing to say/do. My ex might be of the exact same mindset like you: she literally said things such as "I think this was inevitable", "I felt as this would make it even between us".

 

That may be really the way you felt, but you ladies need to understand that actions and choices do have consequences, and the consequence of betrayal - no matter the reasons for it - are that the damage is irrepairable unless the person who did it really tears the world apart to prove they understand what a dumbass mistake it was. Mind you, this does not warrant taking you/her back, it will merely level the playing field to maybe, perhaps, possibly discuss giving it another shot.

 

I'm sorry your guy keeps caling you - sorry for him. By doing this he is not helping you too at all. She needs to cut you off and let you try to earn him back.

 

Don't mean to be mean, I'm just pointing the obvious (from guy's point of view) fact that your rationales aren't worth a dime.

[nowhereman82]

I don't know if anyone has had a true heart to heart with their ex....but once the hurt went away and I was able to think clearly, I had that talk.

 

And my ex was right for the reasons she left....it didn't happen the way she wanted it to but the core reasons were very valid and it was both of our faults. We just never saw it and she did. Guess we had a number of issues stemming around communication.

 

If and when she approaches me I think we will talk about what we want. And if that is compatable....date again. Since she has her own place now it will take some of the awkwardness off of living together and trying again. Plus it allows us the opportunity to take it at a sane pace and to still have time for ourselves to continue self development.

 

But who knows....might never happen And I am fine with that. I guess I hit it on the head when we first broke up and I had wanted us to try and she didn't know how it could work. I told her the only way it would work is if it's truly what she wanted. So she is having thoughts....but is not sure yet.

[movingonandon]

I don't know if anyone has had a true heart to heart with their ex....but once the hurt went away and I was able to think clearly, I had that talk.

 

And my ex was right for the reasons she left....it didn't happen the way she wanted it to but the core reasons were very valid and it was both of our faults. We just never saw it and she did. Guess we had a number of issues stemming around communication.

 

If and when she approaches me I think we will talk about what we want. And if that is compatable....date again. Since she has her own place now it will take some of the awkwardness off of living together and trying again. Plus it allows us the opportunity to take it at a sane pace and to still have time for ourselves to continue self development.

 

But who knows....might never happen And I am fine with that. I guess I hit it on the head when we first broke up and I had wanted us to try and she didn't know how it could work. I told her the only way it would work is if it's truly what she wanted. So she is having thoughts....but is not sure yet.

 

So what were the reasons/core issues?

(I'm still not able to think clearly, but to the limited extent I can, in my case I would not call them "legitimate".)

[nowhereman82]

I thought each issue was individual but in reality they all boiled down to communication.

 

Her lack of sex drive, that I didn't make her feel special, that I expected certain things from her, that we didn't go out and have an active life outside of home, that I would offer solutions instead of just listening and asking questions if something was bothering her in her life, that she would have a problem with something and never say anything of it. Etc Etc

 

We never fought, probably because of lack of communication. But we spent all our time together and never got tired of the others presence.

 

In the end I feel she left me for the right reasons even if I didn't see it at the time. I was too hung up on that she might just have cold feet (left me 3 weeks before the wedding) that this guy she was talking to was the problem, that she liked him more (when in reality she just confided in him and he asked the right questions so she could work through this all).

 

In the end it would be nice to have a second shot now that I understand. But regardless, I will walk away from all of this a better person. So I am thankful for that.

[movingonandon]

 

Her lack of sex drive, that I didn't make her feel special, that I expected certain things from her, that we didn't go out and have an active life outside of home, that I would offer solutions instead of just listening and asking questions if something was bothering her in her life, that she would have a problem with something and never say anything of it. Etc Etc

 

Well all this is actually very similar to my case, except that some of the roles were reversed. Call me insensitive, but i really can't see how any of that (or even all of that, esp. when acknowledged) can be sufficient to call the whole thing off...

It's still a betrayal, and "that" guy is still a weasel.

[movingonandon]

^^^

just to clarify - I didn't mean to say that these are insignificant issues, just that most of these problems are something that most relationships deal with at one point or another and they can be worked through if people are in love (the fact that i nagged about her not finishing her degree, and being difficult and abrupt with her at times did not in any way mean that i do not love her, and she knows that). "Valid" reasons for break up for me are very few - abuse, actual cheating, blatant disrespect, that's pretty much it...

[BCCA]

I thought each issue was individual but in reality they all boiled down to communication.

 

Her lack of sex drive, that I didn't make her feel special, that I expected certain things from her, that we didn't go out and have an active life outside of home, that I would offer solutions instead of just listening and asking questions if something was bothering her in her life, that she would have a problem with something and never say anything of it. Etc Etc

 

We never fought, probably because of lack of communication. But we spent all our time together and never got tired of the others presence.

 

In the end I feel she left me for the right reasons even if I didn't see it at the time. I was too hung up on that she might just have cold feet (left me 3 weeks before the wedding) that this guy she was talking to was the problem, that she liked him more (when in reality she just confided in him and he asked the right questions so she could work through this all).

 

In the end it would be nice to have a second shot now that I understand. But regardless, I will walk away from all of this a better person. So I am thankful for that.

 

Brother, Ive been EXACTLY where you are! I could litterally cut and past this as part of my own story. But here is the catch: communication is a 2 way street. Her lack of communication is not your doing or your problem. Its up to HER and her alone to come to you when there is problems and be able to say "hey, this is bothering me and I think we should talk about it or work something out". A lot of people would just ignore the persons problems, or get angry, but you offered solutions and youre beating yourself up? Let me tell it to you straight: she didnt want to work things out. She didnt feel like putting any effort into this, so she bailed.

 

Also, why is she confiding in another guy instead of talking to you? Did she ever try and explain what was wrong, or did she just give you non specific "we dont go out" "im just not happy" "i dont think we were meant for each other" crap? Chances are, the latter. And she doesnt have a friend that isnt some random guy she could talk to?

 

She didnt leave you for the right reasons, she gave up and bailed. Maybe to her it seemed right, but if she isnt even willing to communicate and let you know what shes thinking, and left you 3 weeks before the wedding...what does that tell you? Her concerns about you are a distant second to her concerns about herself.

[nowhereman82]

I feel neither of us were willing to communicate and what attempts at communication we did have were scewed.

 

I can honestly say that at that point in time I would of not grasped what the issues were.

 

And yes, it is a two way street. Believe me I know it. And honestly the communication was her biggest weakness and she knows it as well. I just didn't know how bad it was. So I am not taking all the blame or making it seem like she did nothing wrong....she could of tried...and honestly I would of failed us at that time.

[BCCA]

I feel neither of us were willing to communicate and what attempts at communication we did have were scewed.

 

I can honestly say that at that point in time I would of not grasped what the issues were.

 

And yes, it is a two way street. Believe me I know it. And honestly the communication was her biggest weakness and she knows it as well. I just didn't know how bad it was. So I am not taking all the blame or making it seem like she did nothing wrong....she could of tried...and honestly I would of failed us at that time.

 

My ex knew, KNEW she didnt communicate and never told me what was on her mind. Do you know what she did to work on that? Absolutely nothing. She didnt want to work on herself, its easier to blame the relationship/me. Im not saying its 100% her fault, I'm really not. But you have to be realistic here, she wasnt interested in trying to work through the problems that happen in any relationship.

[nowhereman82]

Looks like this thread got hijacked.

 

Movingonandon, did you get any insight? Anything new happen?

[movingonandon]

Looks like this thread got hijacked.

 

Movingonandon, did you get any insight? Anything new happen?

 

actually, i got more insight than expected...

(nothing new has happened, but I'd give it two weeks since the last comunication before writing it off...)

as for insights, perhaps most important, it may indeed be the case that issues that seem trivial to me could look insurmountable to her...

but again.. if so, why attempt to contact me back after making the decision to deal with them by bfreakinjg it off?? being with somebody else does nothing to address/understand the underlying issues, only much further damages things (though if one of the issues is lack of trust, this would explain her "I thought this would make us even" comment; go build relationship on such attitude...) I would have been so much calmer for having resolution if she had just moved on; the reason I am still angry is simply because she does NOT need to be with somebody else to understand how would that make me feel OR that a perfectly decent 5 year relationship does not compare to a fleeting feeling;