Why do women like the bad boys

[Taramere]

So a guy that works out, is good looking, and is as "masculine" as they come, but don't have the arrogant, bad boy aura about them are not masculine?

 

I don't understand how you construed that from the comment of Ocean-Blue's that you quoted. She said

 

women do tend to gravitate towards a more "masculine" man (one who isn't afraid of his sexuality, one who doesn't make sheepish apologies for who he is, etc).

 

From your comment that I quoted, I'm concluding that you work out and would regard yourself as good looking and masculine...and yet something about life, Loveshack or just Ocean-Post's particular post leaves you in doubt about whether women find you masculine.

 

Men talk about women emasculating them....but I think often it's more a case of men (some more than others) spending their formative years trying to figure out what it means to be a man - and how they might become one - and looking to women to help them achieve that sense of manliness they're in search for.

 

If we fail to make them feel manly (eg because we happened to be attracted to another man, didn't respond to a particular approach in the way that we were supposed to, weren't submissive enough or because weren't hot enough to inspire a sense of manliness) then men feel that we're insulting and emasculating them.

 

We can't be responsible for how masculine you do or don't feel. Our lives aren't devoted to the quest of helping men to feel like men. If the way a particular woman looks, is and behaves makes you personally feel like a man - then that's fantastic, and there will probably be good chemistry between you.

 

It's not, however, Ms Everyone in the Street's job to make you feel like a man. It's yours - by figuring out who you want to be, then concentrating on being that, rather than complaining because there are some women out there who want a different kind of man to the one you are.

 

Every time a man complains about women preferring bad boys, he's emasculating himself. I think. I'm not saying that because I think it's right, or a good thing....but just because that's how I perceive men who complain bitterly about this particular topic.

[The Collector]

Wha? No, not backbone, just plain disinterest in anyone else's feelings besides himself. Narcissism.

 

'Backbone' has a positive connotation, so I was careful to counter it with 'for all his faults' which may include narcissism. But it's really an amoral term - it just means capable of standing up for himself.

 

A lot of men have no interest in anyone's feelings except themselves, including the many of the 'nice guys' who are just pretending to care. A 'bad boy' who lacks 'backbone' or the ability to defend himself, from women, from the world, whatever, is no longer in the group of 'bad boys' that (some) women find attractive.

 

I'm not talking about moral judgment here, I am talking about Darwinism and the natural desire of women to breed with men who have genes that will be beneficial to their offsprings survival. The two are often in conflict.

[Trialbyfire]

There's a fine line between brashness/cockiness and confidence. I don't even mind some arrogance, if it's mixed in with true confidence.

 

I do agree that the typical badboy has the brash and cocky attitude but it's a thin veneer over the fragile ego.

[Trialbyfire]

'Backbone' has a positive connotation, so I was careful to counter it with 'for all his faults' which may include narcissism. But it's really an amoral term - it just means capable of standing up for himself.

 

A lot of men have no interest in anyone's feelings except themselves, including the many of the 'nice guys' who are just pretending to care. A 'bad boy' who lacks 'backbone' or the ability to defend himself, from women, from the world, whatever, is no longer in the group of 'bad boys' that (some) women find attractive.

Nice guy and bad boy are two sides to the same coin. Most often you'll find that the "victim" attitude nice guy, turns into the "predator" bad boy when he doesn't get his way with women. More balanced and mature men don't over-react when faced with rejection. They just amend themselves accordingly.

 

I'm not talking about moral judgment here, I am talking about Darwinism and the natural desire of women to breed with men who have genes that will be beneficial to their offsprings survival. The two are often in conflict.

As a women, I admire strength and confidence. If these traits are what you're talking about then yes, this is the type of man I'll breed with.

 

Whether those are bad boy traits, is disputable. I don't personally think so. Refer to my last post about brashness v. confidence.

[The Collector]

Like it or not, brash, arrogant narcissists get laid all the time (if not by you). What's your explanation?

[Trialbyfire]

Not only did I lay one, I married and divorced him.

 

Time always tells exactly which type he is. This is what the bad boys rely on. They're not as much interested in long-term, as the immediate gain.

 

Having said that, previous to D-day, the ex was a totally different ball of wax. He never abused or neglected me.

[bish]

I don't understand how you construed that from the comment of Ocean-Blue's that you quoted. She said

 

women do tend to gravitate towards a more "masculine" man (one who isn't afraid of his sexuality, one who doesn't make sheepish apologies for who he is, etc).

 

From your comment that I quoted, I'm concluding that you work out and would regard yourself as good looking and masculine...and yet something about life, Loveshack or just Ocean-Post's particular post leaves you in doubt about whether women find you masculine.

 

No, I question the comment made.

 

 

If we fail to make them feel manly (eg because we happened to be attracted to another man, didn't respond to a particular approach in the way that we were supposed to, weren't submissive enough or because weren't hot enough to inspire a sense of manliness) then men feel that we're insulting and emasculating them.

 

No, whats insulting is women that go for bad boys, then complaining that they can't find a good man. And even then it really isn't insulting, just comical.

 

 

We can't be responsible for how masculine you do or don't feel. Our lives aren't devoted to the quest of helping men to feel like men.

 

And who said we need you to make us feel like men? Women that go for bad boys in no way make me feel less "masculine". it just makes them pathetic when they go for them, then whine about what jerks they are.

 

 

Every time a man complains about women preferring bad boys, he's emasculating himself.

 

Not in the least. I think its funny how they go for bad boys, then complain to the hills about them.

 

 

I think. I'm not saying that because I think it's right, or a good thing....but just because that's how I perceive men who complain bitterly about this particular topic.

 

Hmm...ok. So lets see. If you go for bad boys, and are all of a sudden sick of being treated like crap, then why should a good man want you if he realizes you aren't really what you want, but that you are just settling for?

[bish]

Nice guy and bad boy are two sides to the same coin. Most often you'll find that the "victim" attitude nice guy, turns into the "predator" bad boy when he doesn't get his way with women.

 

I believe that is valid. Its not for me, but I think alot of guys go from nice to jerk simply because they figure, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

 

More balanced and mature men don't over-react when faced with rejection. They just amend themselves accordingly.

 

 

I figure, if a woman isn't interested in me because I am not "bad" enough for her, then she isn't anyone I would want anyway.

[bish]

Like it or not, brash, arrogant narcissists get laid all the time (if not by you). What's your explanation?

 

And they are also the ones that will cheat on you.

 

If women can handle knowing that, then have at it.

 

Just don't complain when it does happen.

[Tomcat33]

Like it or not, brash, arrogant narcissists get laid all the time (if not by you). What's your explanation?

 

 

The explanation is that women like men that are self confident and are NOT afraid to hit on them or take to take control of the situation.

 

A lot more "nice guys" would get laid if they grew some cojones and actually went for what they wanted instead of "should I kiss her?" "she parted her hair to the left does that mean she is interested in me, and if so should I call her today or in two days?" That is the typical nice guy train of questioning, and I am not talking about a 21 yr old dude that is just getting his bearings in life, I am talking about a 40yr old man that still doesn't know his arse from his head when it comes to dealing with women.

 

 

Women don't like that period.

 

And as per the cocky guys cheat comment, apparently all men cheat given how many opportunities you get according to some of you so if that's the case gimme a guy with ballls over a wimp anyday they will both end up in the same predicament anyway..

[GoodOnPaper]

Nice guy and bad boy are two sides to the same coin. . .

 

I'm always reluctant to believe this, given their polar-opposite success levels with women, but it manifests again and again, such as:

 

Time always tells exactly which type he is. This is what the bad boys rely on. They're not as much interested in long-term, as the immediate gain.

 

Short-term thinking is also a big nemesis for the "nice guy". I think "mental panic" is a good way to describe the emotional states of many young "nice guys." In hindsight, more long-term thinking and consideration would have soothed some of this panic for me, resulting in some very different life decisions.

[Taramere]

Hmm...ok. So lets see. If you go for bad boys, and are all of a sudden sick of being treated like crap, then why should a good man want you if he realizes you aren't really what you want, but that you are just settling for?

 

I don't go for "bad boys", bish. For relationship purposes (whether platonic or romantic) I go for people I like and connect with. "Treated like crap" I would define as being abused physically and/or emotionally, being lied to and generally not being taken seriously as a human being.

 

It's less often a case of people being good or bad....more often that unreciprocated love is a very hurtful thing to experience. It sends people diving into the comforting pit of childish regression and splitting. Where good and bad are simple concepts. You give me what I want, you tell me what I hear - you are good. You don't give me what I want, you tell me things I don't want to hear - you're bad.

 

Using that as a reference point, my notion of the bad boy would be the one who lies, deceives and tells a woman what she wants to hear in order to get some sex out of her....then once he has what he wants, turns around and tells her the painful truth she doesn't want to hear. ie That he never had any feelings for her and only used her for sex.

 

To me, that would be sh*tty and contemptible behaviour. I've never been on the receiving end of it, but if I was I think my primary response would be "ugh. What a worthless creep. I need to shower and douche like a rape victim..." rather than "oh woe is me. Gotta love those bad boys..."

 

I think the more common scenario is probably when men make it clear upfront that they're just looking for sex, and women respond "I'm cool with that" when they're not really. Who's lying in that situation? The woman is. If she were to then start blackening the man's name and saying that he's a bad bastard for hurting her she's being unfair as well as dishonest.

 

When you and other men who consider themselves to be "good guys" follow suit in applying that label to men who are, perhaps, more sexually active than you are, you're colluding with the woman in evading responsibility for the consequences of being dishonest with herself or with the guy about whether she could handle what she claimed she could handle.

 

If a woman's genuinely been conned by a bad guy - ie one who dishonestly presented himself as being what she was looking for, then betrayed her trust, she deserves empathy and support as does any other victim of a con artist.

[FleshNBones]

The explanation is that women like men that are self confident and are NOT afraid to hit on them or take to take control of the situation.

I prefer competent over confident. Confidence is just a rehearsed game face.

A lot more "nice guys" would get laid if they grew some cojones and actually went for what they wanted instead of "should I kiss her?" "she parted her hair to the left does that mean she is interested in me, and if so should I call her today or in two days?" That is the typical nice guy train of questioning, and I am not talking about a 21 yr old dude that is just getting his bearings in life, I am talking about a 40yr old man that still doesn't know his arse from his head when it comes to dealing with women.

In other words, nice guys need a formula for dealing with women. I guess I need to read a few more pick-up books. The bad boys already have a routine for dealing with them.

Women don't like that period.

Women like what's bad for them. I see a lot of single women eating junk food, and packing on the pounds.

And as per the cocky guys cheat comment, apparently all men cheat given how many opportunities you get according to some of you so if that's the case gimme a guy with ballls over a wimp anyday they will both end up in the same predicament anyway..

I have no interest in cheating, but if you want an a-hole then go get him. Make sure some of those illegitimate children get to know the rest of the family.

[bish]

Women like men. Girls like the "bad boys."

 

I like that!

[bish]

When you and other men who consider themselves to be "good guys" follow suit in applying that label to men who are, perhaps, more sexually active than you are, you're colluding with the woman in evading responsibility for the consequences of being dishonest with herself or with the guy about whether she could handle what she claimed she could handle.

 

Damn, then I'd bow at the altar of the man who is getting more sex than me. Cuz he'd be doing it twice a night every night.

 

I'd have to say to that guy, "teach me"!!

[bish]

I have no interest in cheating, but if you want an a-hole then go get him. Make sure some of those illegitimate children get to know the rest of the family.

 

:lmao::lmao: Oh, *eyes watering*, thats a great one!

[torch_1980]

It's just that "nice guys" have the connotation of being boring and uninteresting. I need a dynamic personality, someone who is confident and secure -- if that can come in the form of a "nice guy" then you've got a winner.

 

To me true "bad boys" are just selfish jerks who don't treat people well. There is nothing appealing about that.

 

Explain what a "dynamic personality" is? And futhurmore I really dont understand why women never say what they will bring to a relationship? Why do they constantly blare what a man should bring? I thought for sure a relationship is about two people but hell I could be wrong:rolleyes:

[bish]

I don't go for "bad boys", bish.

 

The question was more or less rhetorical.

 

 

Using that as a reference point, my notion of the bad boy would be the one who lies, deceives and tells a woman what she wants to hear in order to get some sex out of her....then once he has what he wants, turns around and tells her the painful truth she doesn't want to hear. ie That he never had any feelings for her and only used her for sex.

 

What about the guy who doesn't try to deceive a woman, yet thinks his flatulence has no odor, and its obvious he is into himself, isn't a faithful type of guy, yet a woman goes for him anyway...you know, a real player?

 

Don't even say women aren't attracted to players.

[Stockalone]

The explanation is that women like men that are self confident and are NOT afraid to hit on them or take to take control of the situation.

 

The less you care about the woman, the easier it is to do that.

 

Having read a lot of those nice guy vs. bad boy threads, I am a bit more reluctant now to call myself a nice guy. I don't identify with the doormat nice guy but I think that I still can be considered a (clueless) nice guy.

 

In my opinion, nice guys are usually more "selective", meaning they don't follow the "don't worry about rejection, there are plenty of fish in the ocean" approach.

 

For a nice guy who wanted to catch that one fish, the prospect of catching another fish (even a similar one) is just not much of a consolation. Getting invested too soon without a good reason to be that invested is not a smart idea, but that is something I always struggled with. And from what I have seen and read, it seems that this is something a lot of nice guys are dealing with.

 

Whereas the bad boy's main objective is to at least catch a fish. If he can't catch one fish, he will try to catch another one.

 

 

A lot more "nice guys" would get laid if they grew some cojones and actually went for what they wanted instead of "should I kiss her?" "she parted her hair to the left does that mean she is interested in me, and if so should I call her today or in two days?" That is the typical nice guy train of questioning, and I am not talking about a 21 yr old dude that is just getting his bearings in life, I am talking about a 40yr old man that still doesn't know his arse from his head when it comes to dealing with women.

 

Women don't like that period.

 

This may not be apparent to you, but that is a real problem for men who simply do not know how to interact with women.

 

Speaking of cojones, not all nice guys lack them. I can only speak for myself on that one, but being more aggressive/assertive and going after what I want, was associated with becoming one of the "jerks". The kind of guy I would have punched in the face had he tried to sweet talk my sister.

 

I didn't want to be a jerk, so I couldn't possibly act like one. It took me a very long time to understand that even though some guys are real jerks, not all of the assertive, confident men are jerks. And that not everything they do makes them a jerk.

 

Another thing is that I don't believe that not being confident at interacting with women also always means not being confident at all other aspects of one's life, which most of the time seems to be implied when talking about the nice guys here on LS. How are they supposed to get that confidence when they are always dismissed as being the "nice guy" who, more often than not, is considered to be a doormat?

 

However, I do not blame women for that, even though I am convinced that some of the nice guys would make a good partner with some help and guidance. But when there are other men who already know how to do those things, why bother with someone who you don't know whether or not he will eventually learn to do those things?

[bish]

Speaking of cojones, not all nice guys lack them. I can only speak for myself on that one, but being more aggressive/assertive and going after what I want, was associated with becoming one of the "jerks". The kind of guy I would have punched in the face had he tried to sweet talk my sister.

 

Exactly. And the guy that has the "cojones" to be aggressive and go after what he wants more than likely goes after what he wants behind the back of the the current girl he went after.

 

the aggressiveness doesn't just stop at one girl/woman.

 

I think the difference is on one side you have aggressiveness, and the other side is the guy who goes after a girl/woman, but does it the right way, the respectful way. But the latter isn't exciting enough apparantly. But later on in life, a woman will seem to simply settle for that kind of guy out of being fed up with the players.

 

That is when the decent guy needs to be selective. Like I said before, in a small town like mine, everyone knows everyone. And most decent guys I know won't give the time of day to women who are known to be attracted to players. Not to mention cheaters and people that sleep with other people's spouses.

[singlelife]

One of my female friends called me crying because she can't get the sex she wants from her boyfriend and she also cannot open up and be herself. she is all into him but says she is now losing feelings for him. he won't treat her like a slut in bed and is too respectful all around. now we are really good friends and talk about everything and also have sex frequently. we went on a get away two weeks ago! anyway not that i am all that....my point is i really think women want to be themselves more than guys realize. let them have fun and not stress out

[carhill]

now we are really good friends and talk about everything and also have sex frequently.

 

So, are you the "bad boy", banging some other guy's GF? Or, more likely, is it her psychology of "he won't treat her like a slut in bed and is too respectful all around" that is the real issue. Why don't you marry her and see how that goes? You know, let her "have fun and not stress out", perhaps including another guy in the mix. Great fun, you know...

[bish]

One of my female friends called me crying because she can't get the sex she wants from her boyfriend and she also cannot open up and be herself. she is all into him but says she is now losing feelings for him. he won't treat her like a slut in bed and is too respectful all around. now we are really good friends and talk about everything and also have sex frequently. we went on a get away two weeks ago! anyway not that i am all that....my point is i really think women want to be themselves more than guys realize. let them have fun and not stress out

 

So you went away with someone elses girlfriend? Why don't you suggest she break up with her boyfriend?

 

Or do you like the thrill of sleeping with someone elses gf?

[bish]

So, are you the "bad boy", banging some other guy's GF? Or, more likely, is it her psychology of "he won't treat her like a slut in bed and is too respectful all around" that is the real issue. Why don't you marry her and see how that goes? You know, let her "have fun and not stress out", perhaps including another guy in the mix. Great fun, you know...

 

this only helps solidify the point of women wanting bad boys. So is that it women? you want to be treated like "sluts"?

 

Well by golly, alrighty then!!!! Men, lets oblige them!! Just be prepared to be considered an ahole afterwards.

[singlelife]

what do you guys think