pandabear99 Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I've been divorced almost a year and for the past 7 months, I have been dating a wonderful man. He has those qualities that were good about my ex as well as those that I knew, after I got divorced, that I needed in a future relationship. Of course I wouldn't be here if there wasn't a but.... But, he likes to tease me and can be sarcastic. So here's my question: Is picking at and teasing someone you're dating "normal"? Is it OK, or fair, for one partner to ask the other to stop completely? Do I keep trying to accept that his making fun is harmless, like he says? I have told him I get hurt easily by it because my ex was cruel about teasing me (he doesn't tease in the same manner), and I associate the picking with disrespect, so I know I've got issues to resolve. He says, and I guess I agree, that I have to be able to laugh at myself. Just don't know what the acceptable limit is..... if there even is such a thing....
Jilly Bean Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 He sounds like a sadist and emotionally abusive, IMO. I think if you tell someone that you love that something they are doing (and are able to control!) is hurting you and they dismiss it, and then make it YOUR problem, then see my opening sentence.
CommitmentPhobe Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 It depends on what the teasing is? It depends how it's said...
likestolaugh Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 it depends how much... but if he continues to do it after you told him that you seriously don't like it... then that's extremely disrespectful.
Shygirl15 Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Perhaps he doesn't really mean to hurt you, and it's all fun for him but you can ask him to stop if you don't like it. I too had an ex who was very sarcastic and just enjoyed picking on me, for whatever reason.
Trialbyfire Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 It's up to you to draw your own boundaries of acceptability. If you get hurt from sarcasm, why are you with someone who's sarcastic? Are you ever sarcastic with him or tease him?
Author pandabear99 Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 I know he doesn't mean to hurt me. He says he can stop the picking, but we would have a very boring relationship. I replied that he was too intelligent of a man to only derive humor at my expense... but he doesn't see his picking as hurtful or disrespectful. The type of picking.... the one that I hear the most is when we go to a restaraunt, we seem to end up in a corner. So, just about every time we go out, if we are in or anywhere near a corner, he says "Well, looks like they know your reputation... we're in the corner again". He says it's just funny how that keeps happening, and it is, but it would be so different for me if instead of "my" reputation, it was "ours". Is that splitting hairs? Am I really being oversensitive? This weekend we had a discussion about it, and he said that he will stop, but that I'm not far enough along in my healing from the divorce to even begin thinking about marriage, the future, etc. He is such a great match for me in so many ways... except this. It's tough to know what is a dealbreaker or not in a relationship!
Scottdmw Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Many men consider teasing a form of flirting, and also fun. I don't know how far this teasing really goes in your case, but I would consider that if you can't deal with some amount of friendly teasing by a man who otherwise respects you, you might want to work on that yourself. If a woman is so defensive she can't handle _friendly_ teasing, that would be a big turn-off for me. Is he okay if you tease back? I mean if you really can't deal with it then maybe you and he aren't compatible, but I think you'll see the same from many other men too. Jilly Bean, calling a man a "sadist" for teasing is going pretty far--at worst he is not interested enough in this relationship to change what he (and I) consider a perfectly normal aspect of relationships. How would you feel if a man you were dating said he doesn't like cuddling, or talking about his feelings? Would you feel that him asking you to stop completely would be fair? Would you be "emotionally abusive" if you didn't want to stop and wanted him to change instead?
CommitmentPhobe Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I know he doesn't mean to hurt me. He says he can stop the picking, but we would have a very boring relationship. I replied that he was too intelligent of a man to only derive humor at my expense... but he doesn't see his picking as hurtful or disrespectful. The type of picking.... the one that I hear the most is when we go to a restaraunt, we seem to end up in a corner. So, just about every time we go out, if we are in or anywhere near a corner, he says "Well, looks like they know your reputation... we're in the corner again". He says it's just funny how that keeps happening, and it is, but it would be so different for me if instead of "my" reputation, it was "ours". Is that splitting hairs? Am I really being oversensitive? This weekend we had a discussion about it, and he said that he will stop, but that I'm not far enough along in my healing from the divorce to even begin thinking about marriage, the future, etc. He is such a great match for me in so many ways... except this. It's tough to know what is a dealbreaker or not in a relationship! Blo_ody hell I don't know what to say here. Tell you what, if you don't find him funny dump him and let him laugh with someone else. Emotionally abusive my a$$
Jilly Bean Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Jilly Bean, calling a man a "sadist" for teasing is going pretty far No, it's not. She has asked him to stop, has told him it hurts her, yet he persists and then turns it around to make it her problem. It doesn't matter how much, or what type of teasing this is. All that matters is that it bothers her, she told him so, and he dismisses her hurt. THAT is a sadist, hon. Someone who enjoys inflicting pain on others, regardless of the other persons feelings.
Ronni_W Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 So here's my question: Is picking at and teasing someone you're dating "normal"? Some good-natured teasing is normal, yes. But when one person asks for it to stop and it does not stop...THAT is unacceptable/not normal, IMO. To me, it doesn't matter what is the problematic behaviour, it's that specific sensitivities have been expressed/revealed and are being ignored. That IS disrespectful, unfeeling, uncaring and, as Jilly Bean says, emotionally abusive. I get to choose those things about myself that I will find funny and laugh about...and give you permission to laugh about, thank you very much. "You have no sense of humour" and/or "You need to be able to laugh at yourself" is dysfunctional BS lunacy for purpose of manipulating and controlling. <Grrr...it makes me so mad > We each of get to choose our "acceptable limits"...no matter WHAT is the topic at hand. I would say it is 100% fair, a right and self-obligation even, to ask for an end to anything that does not facilitate our own good feelings about ourselves.
Trialbyfire Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 There are different types of people. Some are more sensitive than others to criticism or perceived criticism. pandagirl, his comment is pretty mild, as long as he doesn't do this every minute of the day. Next time he pulls one of those, turn it around on him with the same kind of non-malicious intent as he portrays. In the situation you mention, you could easily have said "My reputation? More like your reputation. I'm surprised they didn't put us in the kitchen!", with a wink or cheeky smile.
Jilly Bean Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I know he doesn't mean to hurt me. He says he can stop the picking, but we would have a very boring relationship. I replied that he was too intelligent of a man to only derive humor at my expense... but he doesn't see his picking as hurtful or disrespectful. The type of picking.... the one that I hear the most is when we go to a restaraunt, we seem to end up in a corner. So, just about every time we go out, if we are in or anywhere near a corner, he says "Well, looks like they know your reputation... we're in the corner again". He says it's just funny how that keeps happening, and it is, but it would be so different for me if instead of "my" reputation, it was "ours". I urge you to read up on emotional abuse. His comments are not mild teasing. He is ridiculing you, criticizing you, and trying to erode your self-esteem (and it's working, since you seem to want to believe him). For him to say that he could stop, but then your relationship would be very boring, shows me that he has no other idea of how to relate to and treat women, nor does he have any desire to admit his own fault with this. He admits himself that he doesn't see his behavior as hurtful or disrespectful. I bet you $10 he grew up in a household where his father was emotionally abusive to his Mom. This kind of behavior tends to be ingrained, and only worsens with time.
BrooklynBridge Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I talk chit to my GF all the time, but it is nothing than talking chit, I would never backhandedly insult under the veil of teasing. That's not cool....
CommitmentPhobe Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I talk chit to my GF all the time, but it is nothing than talking chit, I would never backhandedly insult under the veil of teasing. That's not cool.... Erm yeah if it's an insult. Sorry don't see how this in an insult... maybe it's a cultural thing, that's just a stupid sarcastic throwaway comment to me. How can anyone take themselves seriously enough to believe a)they have a reputation in a restaraunt and b)it means they end up in a corner?? I feel like i've just walked into the land of the humourless and have to make a swift exit before I
Trialbyfire Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Wow, some over-the-top reactions from one small dig. If this is considered abusive, time to find someone more compatible, someone just as overly-sensitive!
Ronni_W Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I bet you $10 he grew up in a household where his father was emotionally abusive to his Mom. The thing is, they don't necessarily see it that way...for them, it totally IS "normal", it isn't emotionally abusive, it IS the "nice/good/proper" way to express love and devotion. (And those who were more in tune with their feelings, and felt hurt by the barbs & sarcasm were told, "Oh, just laugh at yourself, you no-humour sissy!") It's negative "love", and it hurts, and it's indicative of lack of emotional fluency and an inability to communicate feelings and opinions in positive ways. On the upside, even if he grew up in such dynamics he CAN change how he relates and communicates. But he needs to have empathy first, and then the desire to find a new way of expressing his "loving" feelings, as well as his disappointments, dislikes, etc. (He can cos my b/f did...it is possible once they understand the damage and harm that it can inflict.)...
vonerik012 Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Some people like to be teased, others do not. It reminds me of one girl whom I dated that would be laughing for hours anytime I teased her. I dated another girl and a little tease led her to get mad, and say some of the meanest stuff I have ever heard.. I am thinking if your reaction was similar to the latter woman, he would stop. If you are laughing and playing along, he might think you are ok with it, or even enjoy it. I found the latter woman to be way too overly sensitive, to the point that she was no fun at all.
Jilly Bean Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 The thing is, they don't necessarily see it that way...for them, it totally IS "normal", it isn't emotionally abusive, it IS the "nice/good/proper" way to express love and devotion. (And those who were more in tune with their feelings, and felt hurt by the barbs & sarcasm were told, "Oh, just laugh at yourself, you no-humour sissy!") It's negative "love", and it hurts, and it's indicative of lack of emotional fluency and an inability to communicate feelings and opinions in positive ways. On the upside, even if he grew up in such dynamics he CAN change how he relates and communicates. But he needs to have empathy first, and then the desire to find a new way of expressing his "loving" feelings, as well as his disappointments, dislikes, etc. (He can cos my b/f did...it is possible once they understand the damage and harm that it can inflict.)... Exactly! Clearly he doesn't see a problem with it, and has turned it around to make it her problem, because she can't take a joke. But, you are spot-in in your assessment of this mentality. Too many people ignore the signs of abuse. Teasing and sarcasm can be very hot, erotic and bonding, when done is a playful, fun and non-attacking manner. But, if someone is offended, hurt and upset by the constant comments, voices that to their partner and they respond as this guy did, then it is WAY wrong. This isn't about what each person would find acceptable, as that is irrelevant. The OP is hurt by his comments, and that's all that needs to be addressed.
Trialbyfire Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 You're ignoring the point as well Jill. This isn't abusive behaviour. It's a difference in compatibility and styles of humour. The OP has set her boundaries and her b/f has agreed to abide by it. If he doesn't, then it's her call to walk or not. Calling this abusive is an over-reaction.
CommitmentPhobe Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Exactly! Clearly he doesn't see a problem with it, and has turned it around to make it her problem, because she can't take a joke. But, you are spot-in in your assessment of this mentality. Can you read Jilly? I have told him I get hurt easily by it because my ex was cruel about teasing me So she's already stated where the issue arises from. Heres what she says about the current guy (he doesn't tease in the same manner) What did you miss about he doesn't tease in the same manner as her ex i.e. not in a cruel fashion|? She also says: I have been dating a wonderful man You say: He sounds like a sadist and emotionally abusive, IMO. Seriously, you could at least learn to read and interpret what someone is saying before you go in with the gung ho amateur psycho-babble.
Ronni_W Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Too many people ignore the signs of abuse. Well, first you gotta KNOW what the signs are, before you can ignore them..and those for whom it is "normal", well, there's just nothing to ignore. That's exactly how the pattern is maintained, I think. I think the difference is that some are speaking in general terms of a pattern of behaviour, while others are looking at the one specific comment. Certainly, if someone said something like that to me, I could (if I so chose) turn him into toast before the waiter had time to ask for our drink order . But if it kept happening despite my expressing my discomfort then, IMO, it'd be prudent of me to also consider what is driving HIM; to start wondering if there may be an underlying dynamic of his, of which I need to be aware. So that is exactly what I would suggest that OP do -- take into account the rest of it; the communication dynamics as a whole...and not just the one specific incident. Keeping in mind that yes of course, OP does have the sole final say in what is acceptable or not.
Star Gazer Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 This isn't abusive behaviour. It's a difference in compatibility and styles of humour. I totally agree.
Trialbyfire Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 This thread reminds me of cutegirl's threads, where she takes offense over many situations that most people would shrug off. There's a limit to how far you can be sensitive, in that you're only hurting yourself. I agree with Ronnie, that you have to view it in it's entirety. You've set your boundaries, now either hold him to it, or you enable behaviour that you find hurtful. To stew over this before he exceeds your boundaries, is relationship sabotaging. By the same token, it's up to him to also decide how much sensitivity he can take. If he's constantly walking on eggshells wondering if he's hurting your feelings, there are some serious compatibility issues happening.
Taramere Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 The type of picking.... the one that I hear the most is when we go to a restaraunt, we seem to end up in a corner. So, just about every time we go out, if we are in or anywhere near a corner, he says "Well, looks like they know your reputation... we're in the corner again". He says it's just funny how that keeps happening, and it is, but it would be so different for me if instead of "my" reputation, it was "ours". Is that splitting hairs? Am I really being oversensitive? I think if you have a reaction to something, rather than just making a call between "he's being unkind" or "I'm being over-sensitive" it might be more helpful to try to identify what it was about that comment which offended you. Maybe you are being overly sensitive by most people's standards, but knowing that won't necessarily change the way you feel/perceive things. More likely that you'll feel the same way but just be more inclined to keep the feelings to yourself. My first thought, on reading that joke he made about "your reputation" and noting that you have a reaction to that is....is there any particular reason why someone making a comment about "your reputation" might hit a sore spot? If it's simply a case of "I don't find it funny, I find it a bit of a pest and a bore to pretend I find his comments funny when I don't..." then that sounds like simple humour incompatibility. Which is, in my view, a pretty important incompatibility. It doesn't say anything bad about either him or you....but it's something you're bound to struggle with in a relationship. If it's more that this comment really does hit a nerve because at some point there has been (or you've perceived there as being) a blow to your reputation that you feel quite raw about, then that's a bit more personal. Is there any reason you can think of why a comment like he made should be offensive to you? From my perspective it doesn't sound like anything more than a throwaway line that's intended to be amusing. If I said something like that to a guy and he started getting upset, I'd be thinking "uh oh. It looks as though this is going to involve far more unnecessary conflict and stress than I'm prepared to deal with." Unless he came up with a specific reason as to why the comment hit him in a raw spot, and then I'd be more understanding, I think. This weekend we had a discussion about it, and he said that he will stop, but that I'm not far enough along in my healing from the divorce to even begin thinking about marriage, the future, etc. He is such a great match for me in so many ways... except this. It's tough to know what is a dealbreaker or not in a relationship! I think it sounds as though he's being quite sensible there. If it's down to an incompatibility in senses of humour, then that is pretty significant for anyone who regards laughter as a very important part of their life. Don't underestimate the importance of humour. If it's more a case of you having a lot of sore spots that are easily hit, then that's stressful for other people to deal with. It means they have to think about walking on eggshells...and it would be fair for anyone in a relationship to say "you need to do a bit more healing, so that I'm not feeling all tense and on edge about whether everything I say creates an argument or results in you taking offence." Or do you just get some instinct, for reasons you can't quite articulate, that he has a cruel streak?
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