When the Married Person Separates from Their Spouse

[bentnotbroken]

What Christian is bashing and who are they bashing?

[beautifullove]

did you ever get that book???? Even though the title sounds as though it's about the divorce process, it provides a lot of info. on how to handle and survive the separation process. The other thing is this, even though I initially asked questions to see if he was sure about the ending of his M before we started dating (which he was), and created scenarios to see how he would handle his W and kids once we started dating, on reflection, the fact that my xmm's wife wanted to work things out with him, even though he made it clear it was over and we lived together, was something I should not have overlooked. The constant pressure, manipulation, and guilt trips that he experienced was a red flag in my books, because eventually he cracked and went back. If his W accepts that the M is over, and he moves out and starts the divorce process, I would say that would be the middle ground. However, I can't even begin to think at what stage the end would be in sight, because even after the ink dries (from what I'vr read), there's always a chance they could have a change of heart. We can speculate all we want, but only you know where his heart is. Go with your gut instinct!

[Mino]

What Christian is bashing and who are they bashing?

yeah??? were discussing,,, No bashing here....

[Mino]

Mino, I don't expect the ow in my situation to answer for the problems that I contributed to my M with Mr. Messy. But as a Christian I took my vows in the sight of God and I did expect it to last. I didn't get married with the intent to divorce or by saying the phrases, "UNTIL SOMETHING BETTER COMES ALONG OR UNTIL YOU PISS ME OFF" But in all honest it only takes one to break the bond. One to disrespect. One to destroy the trust. One to walk outside the marriage vows. One to invite a 3rd party in. It takes two to cause problems, but only one to blow the whole thing up. It takes two to work on things and make them better and one to completely wipe all the work out. You seem to believe(If I am wrong I am sorry) that the wedding has something to do with the marriage. It doesn't. The marriage is a heart bond that two people commit to in the eyes of God.

 

 

You are so right, it isn't your fault some one in the marriage is slacking, but it is your choice to involve yourself before that marriage has been officially and legally buried. That is a choice that only you can make, not the MM or the W, just you. I know some OW believe that their parts in these R don't contribute to the continued breakdown, but it does. You don't start the issues of the couple, but you sure can amp up the intensity and destruction.

Bent, wouldnt the s know early into the problem , that there is a problem? I mean come on, you live together, sure you have ups and downs, thats normal...But the breakdown occurs, when one is not paying attention... because imo, if two people are connected and nurturing their R, they would feel something is off, a few days, a week, a month... somewhere along the line... but years? Come on.... I don't think a "other person" could manage to come into the circle of a heathly loving M....

[Cliche]

I think this guy sounds scary! I honestly feel that the way he acted towards you, when he was calling you a b**ch and scaring you, was unacceptable and I am so surprised you would consider being intimate with him/gving him another chance after this. A guy acted like that with me once and I swear, to this day, I've gone out of my way to avoid him as I'm abit scared of him and I KNOW that if he acted like that once, theres something wrong with him and he'd do that, and probably worse, again.

 

I really think its a BAD idea to let this guy back into your life - he had no right to say those things to you and to scare you - there is NO excuse for it. He wll definitely treat you like that again if you take him back.

 

Yeah, this.

 

Having waited longer than I wanted for an MM to come around and leave his W, I would not automatically tell someone to "wait until the ink dries" to get back with an MM. However, in this case, his behavior makes me think that he's not the right guy. My MM's fault was his dragging his feet for various (maybe valid maybe not) reasons. But he has NEVER EVER said mean things to me or threatened me or called me anything but lovely, caring names. I broke up with him twice during the A, and his response was to tell me he loved me. Had he behaved like your MM, I think I would've stayed away from him. You do not deserve to be treated like. Add his behavior of calling you names and treating you badly with his continued broken promises and I think you have a guy on your hands who might not be worth it.

 

But good luck with whatever your decision. Only you really know.

[bentnotbroken]

Bent, wouldnt the s know early into the problem , that there is a problem? I mean come on, you live together, sure you have ups and downs, thats normal...But the breakdown occurs, when one is not paying attention... because imo, if two people are connected and nurturing their R, they would feel something is off, a few days, a week, a month... somewhere along the line... but years? Come on.... I don't think a "other person" could manage to come into the circle of a heathly loving M....

 

 

Mino, have you ever been married for more than 20 years. I never said, that couples don't get comfortable and neglectful. It is human nature. That doesn't excuse the interference of a 3rd party. The bible says temptations will come, why be the temptation? And yes, another person can entire a healthy loving marriage. I have seen it over and over again on the boards.....we were just friends. Then friends confide in each other, just to get things off their chest, you know to vent. Then the feelings come into play and start to justify thoughts(temptation). I wasn't happy in my with Mr. Messy, I tried to communicate this, he told me the problem was mine. I met guys in the gym, at work, in stores, who were attractive and attentive. The temptation was there, I loved my H and I was committed to him and God. I couldn't allow the temptation to take over, no matter what I was feeling. When I felt weak, I prayed(I ate a lot too:o)or worked out. There are ways for the truly committed to deal with the issues of marriage.

 

The problem is that one partner(sometimes both) aren't truly committed to anything other than themselves and their feelings.

[mytruelove]

wow, it really sounds like you are going through a lot- i want to offer my support. i don't have time to read through all the threads and catch up right now, but i will try tonight.

 

hang in there girl!!!

[OWoman]

Obviously, the dynamic in these A's is that the MP makes it appear to the OW/M that they are on their way out. But then on the other side, it seems little or nothing is being told to the spouse. And it drags on interminably.

 

As greengoddess pointed out (and believe me, is foremost on my mind) we've already had a false start on his separation. He took action in getting a room rental, but then dragged his feet on continuing to take steps towards a D. Meanwhile, she lost her job and it all halted. I gave him a chance too early. Honestly, I don't think he was deliberately playing me, but the fact that he was moving so damn slow was a problem. I want a do-over, not a repeat!

 

Even where things are being told to the spouse, there is no guarnatee they are being heard in the same way. The MM may say to the OW, "I told her it's over", while saying to the W (in an attempt to "soften the blow", as he sees it) that "things aren't working, I think we need to step back and review our options" which the W in turn hears as "we need some time apart so that we can get back together stronger than ever".

 

Not that stating it direct and upfront is any guarantee either. My MM told his W in no uncertain terms that he was leaving her, that there was someone else, and that he did not want to reconcile - but it's only been recently, with my arrival and moving into his new place, that she's finally accepted that there is indeed "someone else" and that it wasn't just a ploy to get her into counselling.

 

Sometimes middle ground is wishful thinking. Sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and leap. But to do that, you need to be certain of your own position in the situation, as GEL says, and you need to be confident that this is what you want. If you're having reservations in the slightest, I'd wait for dry ink.

 

Good luck

[nadiaj2727]

I agree with WWIU and many of the other posters who have given you great advice. I haven't read all the replies, so, sorry if this has been mentioned, but you should look up the TOW Dippers article because it happens so often and in your case I see it as a real possibility. My xMM moved out too, and not because I broke up with him, but earlier on in the relationship, but his divorce was still going nowhere. Often it's just their tactic to buy more time and "try out" life with the OW while not having to be there all the time with the wife. Often they are telling the BS one thing ("I Love you but I need space to find myself") and the OW something completely different ("I'm so happy we can really be together now and I am really looking forward to this divorce.")

 

I am especially concerned in your case because your guy seems unstable and indecisive. Like many MM. This could just be a tactic to draw you back in and buy him some more time. Protect your heart girl. NOTHING is final until the divorce. And even then, if he hasn't really worked out the issues that made it possible for him to cheat and live a double life, he will not be a happy/ whole person and he could just continue his destructive behavior.

 

He needs to be moving out because it is what is right for HIM, on the merits of lack thereof his marriage, and NOT because he thinks he needs to do it because he is losing you. He can't do that unless he has time and space to think without you in the picture. Right now he is probably just floundering around trying to decide what to do, and making half-a**ed decisions based on his circumstances (not being with you) instead of on well-thought-out rational plans like a healthy person does.

 

I say, let him separate from her if that's what he truly wants to do, with or without you. Stick to your guns and stay NC. Use this time to work on yourself. I found that there was something in ME that made it possible for me to settle for a guy who was obviously having his cake and eating it too. I had to get to the root of that issue. Only in being whole and healthy can you find a whole and healthy partner. So work on your issues and let him work on his and if you two are meant to have a real, healthy relationship, it will work best AFTER he has made decisions on his own, without you, and you have made decisions on your own, without a man who is still married to someone else. Honey I think one of the hardest lessons for OWs/ former OWs to learn (and there are many hard ones unfortunately) is that married means married means married. He is not free to be yours while he is still legally, emotionally or in any other way tied to another woman to whom he has already made binding promises and commitments. You deserve better than that so for now just keep telling yourself that.

 

And I also agree with the post that said not to let HIS circumstances or actions sway YOU or confuse your thought process. What is it that you really want? If you don't want to be an OW then don't get re-involved with him, because honey, you are still the OW as long as he is married, so if you don't want that, don't go down that path anymore, ever, with him or anyone else. Best wishes.

[nadiaj2727]

I also just wanted to add that based on your past posts, this man is self-centered manipulative jerk and I think you are too good for him. I understand the feelings of being attracted, I too was very attracted and spellbound to an MM that sounds a lot like yours. But after some time and space away, I realized that it was more of an addiction or some unhappiness/ discontent with myself, within me, that kept me attracted to him and addicted to such an unhealthy relationship full of so much drama and cruelty. You deserve to be treated better. I think you will realize this if you stay stepping aside instead of getting involved with him all over again because NOW he is doing something to make you stay with him after you broke up with him. What about before? He needs to do things on his own time. I think that if you give it time and perspective and think more objectively, like me you will one day be thinking, "what was I thinking? I am so glad I didn't end up with this man. In fact I feel sorry for his wife for having to put up with his selfish behaviors AND his cheating" (whether or not she knows).

 

I think this is one of those be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it scenarios. Or, even worse, it may SEEM like you're getting it, but it's a temporary illusion because his head is probably so screwed up, he doesn't know if he wants to stay married, get divorced, be separated, be with you, be totally single, etc. You deserve someone who is fine on their own two feet, free of commitments, and ready to be with you and only you. This man is not free to make commitments or promises to you while he is still married. It isn't fair to his wife or you. IMO being separated in most cases is the ultimate having your cake and eating it too for MM. He gets to stay married AND have OW, really think about that and think about how fair it is to you. And even if he gets divorced tomorrow I would re-think being with someone who is capable of the behaviors he has displayed to you in the past. Why do you REALLY want that -- I mean, the reasons you are attracted to him are probably different from what you really want out of a life partner, which should be the utmost respect, tenderness and caring for you above himself at all times, NOT thinking about his own interests and displaying the irrational and cruel behavior he has shown you in the past.

 

I know you are strong and that you will find your way out of this mess. One thing you will probably learn looking back on this horrendously painful time period is that there is NO excuse for the kind of behavior he has shown you, never, ever. If he tries to blame it on his emotions and he just can't take not having you and he's in so much pain, etc. (like my xMM did), those are just excuses. They show you, if you really look at it, that it isn't real love, because real love is an action, it is unselfishly putting the other person first at all times, and doing what is best for them, while still respecting oneself. This guy of yours hasn't been respecting himself, you, or his wife by acting in this manner. IMO This is not the guy for you, but you of course have to come to that conclusion on your own. Don't become stuck in the momentum or addiction; don't be dictated by him; decide what you truly want and realize you don't need him, you are capable of being happy on your own or with someone who SHOWS you they truly value you 100% of the time.

 

Okay that's it, good luck.

[Agent_99]

WS~

 

There isn't much I can say that hasn't been said, and a lot that was said that wasn't needed here.

 

But you have been so supportive of me on here with my situation that I just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you.

 

If I were in your situation, I know that my hopes would be up for positive things to come. and same as I would you are looking at all the options you can think of.

 

I think the best I can give you is this: Anytime your emotions start running in high gear, take some extra time for you. remeber all the regular sleep, good eating and exercise, no need for that to slack off.

 

~99

[Owl]

WS, knowing what your 'requirements" are is critical.

 

To me, this sounds like more of the same thing you've seen and heard already. I don't see anything new in the recent 'developments'.

 

He's played this 'seperation' card with you and his wife before, and look at how that went.

 

I still suggest you wait until you see something FILED before you give him any 'opportunity'.

 

Otherwise, you're setting the stage to allow history to repeat itself again.

[wildsoul]

Wowza, thanks! I read all your posts and was going to try and address key points, but there are too many for me to keep track of. So please understand that I appreciate you all individually, though am responding to all.

 

My context is still that I'm in a good position of choice. We've been broken up. I've come though the worst days of withdrawal agony. If I could do things over, what would I do differently? I'm in no rush. I feel pretty good.

 

Disclaimer: because I'm reserving my right to not decide yet, today's thought might change. Probably will. But this is where it's at as of now.

 

He called me, after spending the day looking at apartments. I agreed to meet him, so I could ask more questions. He looked at a bunch of places, found one that will do, but he also has a network of friends in that city (an hour away from his former home, and almost an hour from me) who might help him find an even better place. There's quite a few men that he knows there, who are not friends with his W, and who have also come thru divorces. It sounds like he'd have good support there. He expects to sign a lease in 2 weeks or less, and be moved in within a week or so after that.

 

When he mentioned that he also needs to show he is serious to his W (who is finally accepting that he wants to leave) that seemed good to me. Part of the problem before was that he was trying to go slowly "for her" but it actually enabled her to believe that he wasn't really leaving.

 

I've been very clear that I'm not taking him back yet, but he's under consideration. The most obvious requirement I told him is that he needs to be fully moved out. No ambiguity. Another requirement is that she must know and agree that he is dating. We can then go about becoming a public couple (meeting his friends, family, etc.)

 

Note to GEL: You made a comment about how me "not knowing" must mean I don't love him or that he isn't right for me. But I see this very differently. My feelings tell me that, but I consider the jury out still because we haven't done all the normal things couples do. How do I get along with his family? Will our relationship change when we take out the A intensity? (I don't think so, but I want to know so.) So I'm undecided as a way to think a little more objectively, that's all.

 

I probed quite a bit by asking questions such as "when will you be starting the D papers?" and so forth. Now, I know that he probably doesn't know a lot of things yet, and I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. But for example, on the D papers, he told me that he is thinking about that after a year of separation. I balked at that. It's a sensitive topic, but we went back and forth and it was discussed. He left off saying that the earliest would be 6 months, maybe a year, and that he doesn't think the actual D will take overly long. For now, I've backed off the subject. I was just information gathering. Still processing what I think.

 

He's been just great about making amends for his behavior during the break up. Without any prompting from me at all, he's addressed all the right things to make it good. He's done a stellar job of trying to fix the damage, and I'm going to forgive the trespasses.

 

Overall, he treats me with so much love and affection. He is very attentive to my needs in every way, except for this big huge thing of his M. In our talks, he's done a spectular job of acknowledging and summarizing, that I feel we are on the same page. He has never wavered in saying I'm the one for him. And our chemistry is the most amazing thing I've ever experienced. I've had true love before, and what we have is even more potent. If he can get his situation fixed, we have great long term potential.

 

I'm thinking that I'm going to give him a chance. But again, I need to see him fully moved out as the first requirement. I'm still undecided on how long I am willing to give him to get divorced, and I may or may not tell him what that time frame is. But I'm thinking I might at least set a date for myself. The next step seems like dating him openly. Just like dating anyone, I want to see where that goes.

[wildsoul]

Nice. I got an email from him saying he found the perfect place today and is signing the lease in an hour when the agent gets back from lunch. *big smile on my face now*

[norajane]

But for example, on the D papers, he told me that he is thinking about that after a year of separation. I balked at that. It's a sensitive topic, but we went back and forth and it was discussed. He left off saying that the earliest would be 6 months, maybe a year, and that he doesn't think the actual D will take overly long. For now, I've backed off the subject. I was just information gathering. Still processing what I think.

 

I'm thinking that I'm going to give him a chance. But again, I need to see him fully moved out as the first requirement. I'm still undecided on how long I am willing to give him to get divorced, and I may or may not tell him what that time frame is. But I'm thinking I might at least set a date for myself. The next step seems like dating him openly. Just like dating anyone, I want to see where that goes.

 

Think long and hard if you are willing to wait for a year for him to file for divorce. Because it usually takes longer than he says, not less time.

[whichwayisup]

Nice. I got an email from him saying he found the perfect place today and is signing the lease in an hour when the agent gets back from lunch. *big smile on my face now*

 

Shield your heart and don't be soooo forgiving and ready with open arms after everything he JUST put you through. Don't cave and definately don't go out of your way right now to make time for him. Keep contact to a miniumium for your own protection, and by doing that it shows him that you ARE going on with your life, keeping busy and not waiting around for him.

[GreenEyedLady]

Think long and hard if you are willing to wait for a year for him to file for divorce. Because it usually takes longer than he says, not less time.

 

His W good pre-empt him and do it first. He might not have that much control over it.

[wildsoul]

My guy called to tell me he signed the lease and has the keys. So while he estimated conservatively (up to 2 weeks to find a place) he took action right away and found a place within two days.

 

We talked at length today, beginning reconcilliation negotiations. I'm still in no rush, as there are lots of things to be considered, yet the hypothetical decision looks like it will become an actual decision.

 

Although we are in touch now, I'm still holding back a bit while he continues the process of moving out. That will probably take a couple weeks to be fully complete. He told me that he is going to move out all of his clothes/personal things, as well as his home office. Previously, with the room rental, he didn't do all of that. He says that he wants his wife to really come to grips with the fact that he is gone, not just "taking space." He also declared that while he is aware this will probably force her to launch into "save the marriage mode," and he knows that will be hard on both of them, that he is committed to staying separated and that he "is not going to go back." Grain of salt here, but his stated intention is clear.

 

BTW, he's continuing to acknowledge what a jerk he was during our break up. Besides profusely apolgizing for his angry behaviours, he's also showing a lot of empathy. He explained how after his anger subsided, he tried to think about things from my perspective. He acknowledged a lot of things about why an affair dynamic is totally unfair to me, and how it was selfishly serving him while causing me pain. Anyways, I appreciate that he is showing me that he has been thinking empathetically and not just about himself.

 

I'm still thinking about some of my terms/wants/needs. But for right now, he is taking action on one of them: that he needs to be separated and living in his own residence.

[Owl]

Why should it take weeks to get moved out?

 

All he's got to do is to get his stuff loaded in a truck...either rent a truck or hit up some buddies to give a hand. If he got a couple of friends, he could do it in a matter of hours.

 

He's moved out before...to me, this still isn't a new step.

 

When is he FILING?

[mytruelove]

i can hear the excitement and hope in your voice. guard your heart hon. you and i both know there is still a lot for him to go through.

 

i am so wishing and hoping and praying you get everything you deserve!!!

[wildsoul]

Why should it take weeks to get moved out?

 

When is he FILING?

Jeez Owl, you're such a hard ass. But you're on my team, so that's good!

 

Firstly, I think he's purposefully giving me conservative estimates. I'd much rather have that than broken promises.

 

Secondly, I think he's trying to not give his wife a coronary. He just announced the move out a few days ago. When I separated from my xH, I did it over a course of many car loads too, and I actually advocate that. Also, he's going from a 3600' place to 750' (while paying for both.) I think he deserves a couple weeks to set it up nicely. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd take even longer.

 

Thirdly, it's really not my business how long he takes. We're broken up, remember? My "official" position is no R before he's fully moved out. So meanwhile, I'm still on the "work on me" plan.

 

Not sure about the filing date exactly. I mentioned his initial answer to my question in this thread below. He is thinking about a year from now. There is no firm date, but part of that is because I haven't wanted to engage in full negotiations yet. I'm still minimizing my contact with him. He's got to do the move out before I'll discuss too much more. I'm not going to be his sure thing.

 

Meanwhile, the more important question is "What is MY date?" How long seems reasonable to me? I did order that book someone recommended (sorry, I forget who mentioned it to me) "How to survive your boyfriends divorce." Based on the reviews, it seems she has some tips for the GF to make a plan for herself. I like that idea. And I'm keenly interested in the successes and failures of others here.

 

It's a non-negotiable requirement that we end the A dynamic. She must know and agree to him dating. But I also want to make sure I don't swap the futility of the A for the futility of waiting for his paperwork. *Thinking, thinking, thinking.*

[Owl]

But I also want to make sure I don't swap the futility of the A for the futility of waiting for his paperwork.

 

That is the SANEST thing I've read on these boards in MONTHS!!!! WTG!!!

 

I get the idea that her knowing would end the "affair dynamic". But how would you know that she knows? Talk with her directly? What if she still holds hope to reconcile, and REFUSES to agree to this, or refuses to talk with you about it? Clearly you can't rely on him to tell you the truth that she knows about the whole thing...ya know?

 

I'm glad you feel I'm on your team...at the end of the day, I actually agree with the tactic you're taking.

[whichwayisup]

She must know and agree to him dating.

 

And, what if she says no to the dating?

 

Just hope he is being truthful with you here, for all you know she could be under the impression that a separation is needed to figure things out, not to end in divorce. He could be giving her hope.

[wildsoul]

I get the idea that her knowing would end the "affair dynamic". But how would you know that she knows? Talk with her directly? What if she still holds hope to reconcile, and REFUSES to agree to this, or refuses to talk with you about it? Clearly you can't rely on him to tell you the truth that she knows about the whole thing...ya know?

That is something I am needing to solve. I know the result I want, but how will I know? I'm praying that an answer arrives on the "how" part.

 

Agreed about not being able to rely on him to tell me the truth of what she knows. Not only because there is risk of him bending the story, but he may not actually know. She could say she agrees, but then covertly plans otherwise. Or maybe there is is just a miscommunication where they both misunderstand each other. Um, jeez...their M is in trouble, I think it's safe to assume they have huge communication problems.

 

Guaranteed that she will want to reconcile.

 

Her past behaviors have been to:

1. Go into denial.
   
2. If that fails, try to bargain. She'll act agreeable to him leaving, but then turn and act as if nothing was agreed to (back into denial.)
   

It's hard to say if she'll try to bargain by agreeing to him dating others, or if she'll try to insist that he not date while they "work things out." To keep his word to me, he must take a stand for the fact that he's dating and moving to end the M, not save it.

 

It may be that I need to talk with her. That seems a bit like rubbing it in her face though. Do you think it's enough that he gives me his word that she agrees/accepts his dating, as long as I also begin meeting his friends and family (in other words, everyone knows we are a couple)? Postulating ideas here.

 

PS for CLARITY: If she says 'no' to dating, then he is going to have to insist otherwise. If he lies to her and makes it seem like he agreed, but is in fact cheating, then game-over for us. I can't do anything about her hopes. But I would like to know what their actual agreement is.

[whichwayisup]

It may be that I need to talk with her. That seems a bit like rubbing it in her face though. Do you think it's enough that he gives me his word that she agrees/accepts his dating, as long as I also begin meeting his friends and family (in other words, everyone knows we are a couple)? Postulating ideas here.

 

To be honest, I don't think it's your place to talk to her. It's up to you, but that could be a big mistake..You could be putting yourself in the line of fire.

 

I have no idea what your expectation is, like he moves out and then you two start dating immediately and if you expect him to start introducing you, blending you into his life in every way? Either way, HE is going to need time to adjust, tell his friends and family that he is separating soon to be divorcing his wife - And somehow tell them about you. Timing is everything and last thing you need to deal with is everyone looking at you as the cause of their breakup. Not sure if you have the right to dictate or tell him how this is going to go down as it's his marriage ending and he has to do it his way.