Complicated situation

[Satwa]

Just the background details: xMM and I work in the same department, and this is unavoidable. We probably had an EA for 3 months before embarking on a 6 months A. He said he had liked me for the past 2 years. His marriage has been difficult since the birth of his children (11 & 8) and as he had a career change, he had to start all over again and his wife resents him for that. He is not the straying type and if there were never any poblems in his marriage, I don't think I'd be in the situation where I am in now. I did not want to be the OW, but I fell in love, and I've realised what the heart wants, the heart must have, despite my head telling me that it was the most stupid thing I've ever done. He has told me on numerous ocasions that I'm the closest to his ideal woman, and told me he has never loved anyone as much as me. From the beginning I realised there was no future, but the more time I immerse myself in this OW role, the more I want a future for us. Anyway, we've finally successfully ended A, on the 4th attempt, after he had finished all the training, and I have, in my mind, fulfilled my obligation to him, which was to get him to his current position in his career. It's a major achievement. That was yesterday and we also knew it was really the end of us. He called me today, and told me that his wife didn't say anything to him at all and is carrying so much anger and resentment for his accomplishment, and he's had enough and is going to give her an ultimatum.

 

I have encouraged him to seek marriage counselling on numerous occasions but the wife is against the idea, he explains it to me that she doesn't like her faults highlighted, as far as all his friends are concerned, his marriage is happy. She hasn't spoken to anyone about their marital problems at all. He is seeing a counsellor himself at the moment, who wants him to write down a list of things that he wants.

 

I know him so well. I think a part of him wants to end the marriage but doesn't want to have 'blood' on his hands, and wants her to end it. He hates confrontations. He's told me that I'm what he wants but he feels so much guilt for leaving the marriage. I think when he tells me that, it's the truth, but I'm realistic to realise this truth will change depending on his mood. Because he has also told me that he doesn't want to give me any false promises and today he told me that he can't give me what I want.

 

There's a part of me who hates seeing anyone in pain, and want to offer advice and support. I want him to still continue seeing his own counsellor and work out exactly what he wants, and not let the wife make all the tough decisions. If we are to have a future together down the track, I want him to end the marriage because that was what he wanted and not be plaqued with 'what ifs', for him to be certain about it. But there's also a part of me who realises that I have to look after myself, be kind to myself, and if I put myself in that situation, I'm going to face so much unnecessary hurt and grief. It has already been so difficult the past 2 weeks, pretending everything is okay at work and then coming home to cry. I want NC so desperately but can't have it at the moment, and the option of either of us changing jobs is very slim, I won't go into the details, I have looked into this.

 

So any advice would be appreciated.

[pelicanpreacher]

I'm curious as to who approached whom at the onset of this relationship. I'm guessing that he approached you, right? As far as what he's been telling you about his homelife you really ought to take that with a grain of salt for, unless you have the opportunity to play "fly on the wall" in their marriage you really don't have any way of verifying the veracity of his story. It's my bet that he approached you in friendship and escalated your closeness by confiding to you about the intimacies of his marriage and how unhappy he's been and how horrible his wife is and how they never have sex anymore and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! The truth is so intertwined with lies in his story that you'll never be able to tell what's fact or what's fiction and that is what his manipulation is predicated on.

 

It's also my guess that you are fairly inexperienced in relationships and somewhat naive to the "ways of the world"! Your innocence in these matters attracts guys like this who know how to push your emotional need to nurture which makes you vulnerable to their innocuous guile as they seduce you into an affair on their terms suited soley to meet their needs. You perceive him as an honest man experiencing genuine angst on account of the unfair and unreasonable behavior of his wife but I can guarantee you that he's played this game before and his past affairs are the real reason for trouble in his marriage. Remember that the "Devil is in the details" and a lie is best told when slipped between two truths! He knew going into this affair that he would never leave his wife and sold you on the fiction that he isn't the straying type, why he needed an affair with you, and finally sold you on his exit plan for the affair that supposedly saved you pain for your own good. This guy's slick beyond slick and never warranted your tears for he really deserves your wrath! Consider this experience as "lesson learned", show him the cold shoulder from here on out, and, for the love of GOD, never sh#t where you eat ever again!

[astra77]

I'm curious as to who approached whom at the onset of this relationship. I'm guessing that he approached you, right? As far as what he's been telling you about his homelife you really ought to take that with a grain of salt for, unless you have the opportunity to play "fly on the wall" in their marriage you really don't have any way of verifying the veracity of his story. It's my bet that he approached you in friendship and escalated your closeness by confiding to you about the intimacies of his marriage and how unhappy he's been and how horrible his wife is and how they never have sex anymore and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! The truth is so intertwined with lies in his story that you'll never be able to tell what's fact or what's fiction and that is what his manipulation is predicated on.

 

It's also my guess that you are fairly inexperienced in relationships and somewhat naive to the "ways of the world"! Your innocence in these matters attracts guys like this who know how to push your emotional need to nurture which makes you vulnerable to their innocuous guile as they seduce you into an affair on their terms suited soley to meet their needs. You perceive him as an honest man experiencing genuine angst on account of the unfair and unreasonable behavior of his wife but I can guarantee you that he's played this game before and his past affairs are the real reason for trouble in his marriage. Remember that the "Devil is in the details" and a lie is best told when slipped between two truths! He knew going into this affair that he would never leave his wife and sold you on the fiction that he isn't the straying type, why he needed an affair with you, and finally sold you on his exit plan for the affair that supposedly saved you pain for your own good. This guy's slick beyond slick and never warranted your tears for he really deserves your wrath! Consider this experience as "lesson learned", show him the cold shoulder from here on out, and, for the love of GOD, never sh#t where you eat ever again!

 

I am shaking in my boots PP, coz this is soooooooo TRUE it's scary

[pelicanpreacher]

I am shaking in my boots PP, coz this is soooooooo TRUE it's scary

 

Astra, I just took a moment to read your initial post and, yep, I can see some striking similarities to your situation. It seems as if the names and places have changed but the affairs still operated on the same script!

 

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times that if anyone discloses anything intimate about their marriage or disparaging about their spouse then beware for they have crossed their marital boundaries and should be red flagged as they may be trolling for an affair!

[phoenixrising]

Pelican... very scary... this basic script is also so similar to my situation it could be the same guy... the thing that bothers me the most is the statement about the truth being so intertwined with lies that it become manipulative.

 

And Satwa - my advice to you (as your post sounds as though I could have written it) is to take some time to think NOW without MM in the picture. Go NC with respect to personal discussions. If you work together, as my xMM and I do, it will be more challenging, and if you aren't strong it could drag out as long as mine did. I noted zero progression in his actions between 9 months and 4 years, by the way.

 

I realized that I was focused more on helping him (of course, I loved him, right?) than helping myself. But emotionally you are heading down a road that is intensely painful. Believe it or not, it will get harder and harder to leave as time goes by. You will even begin thinking that it's OK to be the OW, but you won't believe it deep down in your heart.

 

Try a period of no 'personal contact', i.e. don't discuss anything but work. Tell him you need to do this for awhile, for your emotional health, and that you will discuss with him in 3-4 months. You will have a different perspective if you give yourself a break. Maybe even go on a vacation alone for a couple weeks just to think about what YOU want??

[pelicanpreacher]

Pelican... very scary... this basic script is also so similar to my situation it could be the same guy... the thing that bothers me the most is the statement about the truth being so intertwined with lies that it become manipulative.

 

And Satwa - my advice to you (as your post sounds as though I could have written it) is to take some time to think NOW without MM in the picture. Go NC with respect to personal discussions. If you work together, as my xMM and I do, it will be more challenging, and if you aren't strong it could drag out as long as mine did. I noted zero progression in his actions between 9 months and 4 years, by the way.

 

I realized that I was focused more on helping him (of course, I loved him, right?) than helping myself. But emotionally you are heading down a road that is intensely painful. Believe it or not, it will get harder and harder to leave as time goes by. You will even begin thinking that it's OK to be the OW, but you won't believe it deep down in your heart.

 

Try a period of no 'personal contact', i.e. don't discuss anything but work. Tell him you need to do this for awhile, for your emotional health, and that you will discuss with him in 3-4 months. You will have a different perspective if you give yourself a break. Maybe even go on a vacation alone for a couple weeks just to think about what YOU want??

 

Yep! Though GOD is everywhere the Devil is still highly mobile! (He gets around and he's passing out playbooks!)

 

Satwa, go back and read the threads submitted by Astra and reread this post 3 times. Part of your MM's strategy is to secure your loyalty no matter how much pain you've endured so that you don't make waves when he no longer has a use for you. THIS IS CRITICAL TO HIS END GAME!

 

If you remain caught up in this type of affair don't be surprised when you find your hair coming out in clumps.

[bentnotbroken]

There is nothing complicated about this situation other than you not walking away. What the heart wants the heart gets, is a load of crap. You just said that you can't control your emotions that they control you. Then you need to regain control and walk away, because the things he is telling you about his wife, are more than likely only half the story if it is true at all.

[Mino]

YOU made YOUR situation complicated. No one put a gun in your head and asked you to sleep with someone's husband, no one forced you to completely crossed the boundary of decency and get attached and emotionally involved with a married man.

 

Do you see how it's all your fault and you could have prevented it if you had any morals to begin with. In addition, you have made their marriage virtually impossible to repair while back then they still might have a chance. I hope they don't have kids, because if they do, you just wrecked their home, everything that they ever known and can count on.

 

What you need to do is have No Contact with him for life, even if it's means changing your job and move to another city to start over. There is no winning situation here. Even if he leaves his family to be with you, your "relationship" will be tainted as two adulterers who destroyed a home to be together. And by the way, do you know how many percentage of adulterers make it long term with marriage and all that. Some stats put it around 3% and some around 2%. And, you can count on that all of them though there were unique, soul mates and all that.

Ok,,, let me guess? I have been reading your post everywhere, They are all the same, So you must be a Bitter Betrayed spouse.... Your cheating hubby left you.... and now you are here ranting and b****ching at all ow , hmmm

[jj33]

Just the background details: xMM and I work in the same department, and this is unavoidable. We probably had an EA for 3 months before embarking on a 6 months A. He said he had liked me for the past 2 years. His marriage has been difficult since the birth of his children (11 & 8) and as he had a career change, he had to start all over again and his wife resents him for that. He is not the straying type and if there were never any poblems in his marriage, I don't think I'd be in the situation where I am in now. I did not want to be the OW, but I fell in love, and I've realised what the heart wants, the heart must have, despite my head telling me that it was the most stupid thing I've ever done. He has told me on numerous ocasions that I'm the closest to his ideal woman, and told me he has never loved anyone as much as me. From the beginning I realised there was no future, but the more time I immerse myself in this OW role, the more I want a future for us. Anyway, we've finally successfully ended A, on the 4th attempt, after he had finished all the training, and I have, in my mind, fulfilled my obligation to him, which was to get him to his current position in his career. It's a major achievement. That was yesterday and we also knew it was really the end of us. He called me today, and told me that his wife didn't say anything to him at all and is carrying so much anger and resentment for his accomplishment, and he's had enough and is going to give her an ultimatum.

 

I have encouraged him to seek marriage counselling on numerous occasions but the wife is against the idea, he explains it to me that she doesn't like her faults highlighted, as far as all his friends are concerned, his marriage is happy. She hasn't spoken to anyone about their marital problems at all. He is seeing a counsellor himself at the moment, who wants him to write down a list of things that he wants.

 

I know him so well. I think a part of him wants to end the marriage but doesn't want to have 'blood' on his hands, and wants her to end it. He hates confrontations. He's told me that I'm what he wants but he feels so much guilt for leaving the marriage. I think when he tells me that, it's the truth, but I'm realistic to realise this truth will change depending on his mood. Because he has also told me that he doesn't want to give me any false promises and today he told me that he can't give me what I want.

 

There's a part of me who hates seeing anyone in pain, and want to offer advice and support. I want him to still continue seeing his own counsellor and work out exactly what he wants, and not let the wife make all the tough decisions. If we are to have a future together down the track, I want him to end the marriage because that was what he wanted and not be plaqued with 'what ifs', for him to be certain about it. But there's also a part of me who realises that I have to look after myself, be kind to myself, and if I put myself in that situation, I'm going to face so much unnecessary hurt and grief. It has already been so difficult the past 2 weeks, pretending everything is okay at work and then coming home to cry. I want NC so desperately but can't have it at the moment, and the option of either of us changing jobs is very slim, I won't go into the details, I have looked into this.

 

So any advice would be appreciated.

 

Satwa I am not sure I understand the bold part of your quote - does the W know? Did you end it or not?

 

It sounds like this man is not ready to leave his marriage. Anyone waiting for the W to make the decisions is not ready to leave. He might fall back to you as a refuge for homeless men, if she ended it but is that how you want him?

 

NC is hard as you have read from many of the posts but if you get out now its easier than wasting more time with someone who is not ready to leave when you want more from the relationship.

 

If you stay away from him (as much as possible given your work relationship) and he eventually does end his marriage you can see whether you two have a shot at a real relationship in the light of day. If he doesnt, you will have started the process of detaching that much sooner.

 

I feel for you. Its not easy.

[vine49938]

PP, i cannot believe the things you say! it's like you were right there with me the whole time i was going through this same situation!

 

and Satwa, once you work up the courage to stop being the doormat, the way you look at your past A with hindsight will amaze you! i have been out of my

A for about a year and a half, and still not a day goes by that i don't think about that person with nothing but love for him, but also, not a day goes by that i don't think about how bad i felt 99% of the time.

 

you can do it - get out now because it will only hurt you more the longer you vest yourself in it.

[Satwa]

Thanks for everyone's advice.

To clarify some issues, he's never had an A before, and I believe him in that. He didn't talk to me about his marital problems until just the beginning of our A, and it definitely wasn't his method of 'reeling me in'. I may be naieve but I can usually detect men who have secret agendas. We just liked each other a lot from the beginning and unfortunately fell in love.

Anyway, the A has definitely ended. He's had a long and open frank discussion with his wife and feels much better regarding his marriage and where it's at now. He's made his decision and I knew that was going to be it. But a small part of me, regardless of what I tell myself, still hoped, and now that's gone, completely.

 

I feel a lot of anger towards him, towards his confusion and inability to stay away from me at the beginning, otherwise we might have never found ourselves in this place. Anger about how incredibly selfish he has been and how giving I have been. It was such an unequal relationship and that's the thing about A, I really thought he was my ideal, but he isn't, if he was, he would have never put me through any of this, he would have never took so much from me without giving me anything in return. Words to me, mean absolutely nothing.

 

I don't think we can be friends at all, this just hurts so damn much at the moment, I'm just numb beyond belief and I don't know how I am going to get through work this week at all. Gosh, A really makes you think so much harder about what defines love. I told him once that for me love is all about bringing out the best out of each other, that he had done that for me - all my happiness and all my love, but now, all he brings is anguish, pain and disappointment. Well I'm going to have a final chat with him, just to vent out all my negative emotions, and then, I don't know what. I'll look for a job somewhere else, because I need to heal and seeing him constantly kills me.

 

I may be hurting now, but now at least I know exactly where he stands, so the uncertainty is gone and I can finally move on. This has been a painful but educational year.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input and support. I've been reading a lot of messages on this board and it feels comforting to know that people who have been through this have come out of it. This is a great community and I definitely would not be coping as well without it.

[astra77]

Yep! Though GOD is everywhere the Devil is still highly mobile! (He gets around and he's passing out playbooks!)

 

Satwa, go back and read the threads submitted by Astra and reread this post 3 times. Part of your MM's strategy is to secure your loyalty no matter how much pain you've endured so that you don't make waves when he no longer has a use for you. THIS IS CRITICAL TO HIS END GAME!

 

If you remain caught up in this type of affair don't be surprised when you find your hair coming out in clumps.

 

IMHO - this is so true.

 

Looking back, my xmm did NOTHING but plant a seed in my head about EVERYTHING, about him, his W & K's, his life in general. Thinking about this now, he lead me to believe things that, really, potentially may not have been true. OUCH

 

He planted thoughts in my head, and hope in my heart. Although he ALWAYS let me come to my "own conclusions", he steered the ship how he saw fit. I didnt realise it at the time, but my "own conclusions" were "swayed" by HIM. He choose his words carefully, timed everything perfectly and HE got what HE wanted.

 

The sad thing is, not only did xmm do this to me, he did this to his W & K's aswell. And my H is crushed.

 

ANYONE currently seeing a MM......... PLEASE GET OUT NOW

[Blindsidedagainalive]

Thanks for everyone's advice.

To clarify some issues, he's never had an A before, and I believe him in that. He didn't talk to me about his marital problems until just the beginning of our A, and it definitely wasn't his method of 'reeling me in'. I may be naieve but I can usually detect men who have secret agendas. We just liked each other a lot from the beginning and unfortunately fell in love.

Anyway, the A has definitely ended. He's had a long and open frank discussion with his wife and feels much better regarding his marriage and where it's at now. He's made his decision and I knew that was going to be it. But a small part of me, regardless of what I tell myself, still hoped, and now that's gone, completely.

 

I feel a lot of anger towards him, towards his confusion and inability to stay away from me at the beginning, otherwise we might have never found ourselves in this place. Anger about how incredibly selfish he has been and how giving I have been. It was such an unequal relationship and that's the thing about A, .

 

I don't think we can be friends at all, this just hurts so damn much at the moment, I'm just numb beyond belief and I don't know how I am going to get through work this week at all. Gosh, A really makes you think so much harder about what defines love. I told him once that for me love is all about bringing out the best out of each other, that he had done that for me - all my happiness and all my love, but now, all he brings is anguish, pain and disappointment. Well I'm going to have a final chat with him, just to vent out all my negative emotions, and then, I don't know what. I'll look for a job somewhere else, because I need to heal and seeing him constantly kills me.

 

I may be hurting now, but now at least I know exactly where he stands, so the uncertainty is gone and I can finally move on. This has been a painful but educational year.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input and support. I've been reading a lot of messages on this board and it feels comforting to know that people who have been through this have come out of it. This is a great community and I definitely would not be coping as well without it.

 

Sorry to be so direct, but your ignorance astounds me! Do you not read, watch TV, or talk to people. Do you not know that men will say anything to get attention and sex! I am a man, I know how we operate. Look, everyone knows (should know) that men (and women) will slag their spouses to people they are interested in. They get attention and sympathy that way. My 'better half had an affair with a married man. This was his second marriage. He seamed like such a 'nice guy. His first wife cheated on him etc. , that is why he got divorced. Bull****.......I spoke to his ex, and he was the one that cheated on his first wife! And .... He cheated on his 2nd wife with my 'better half'. After 'D' day, I asked a lot of questions. I was simply floored at the abolute nonsense that was coming out of her mouth. Unfortunately, I have the benefit of knowing her for 22 years, so I know how sharp and smart she is. Let me be blunt ......Woman who have affairs, justify that the OM must have been sincere, charming, caring to 'persuade' intimacy. The fact is.....they know exactly what was going on at that time. They were flirting and you both knew it. If a woman doesn't justify this, she would have to accept that she was 'used'. This in not generally accepted in society. The truth is, IMHO that the ladies were using the men just as much!!!

[pelicanpreacher]

Sorry to be so direct, but your ignorance astounds me! Do you not read, watch TV, or talk to people. Do you not know that men will say anything to get attention and sex! I am a man, I know how we operate. Look, everyone knows (should know) that men (and women) will slag their spouses to people they are interested in. They get attention and sympathy that way. My 'better half had an affair with a married man. This was his second marriage. He seamed like such a 'nice guy. His first wife cheated on him etc. , that is why he got divorced. Bull****.......I spoke to his ex, and he was the one that cheated on his first wife! And .... He cheated on his 2nd wife with my 'better half'. After 'D' day, I asked a lot of questions. I was simply floored at the abolute nonsense that was coming out of her mouth. Unfortunately, I have the benefit of knowing her for 22 years, so I know how sharp and smart she is. Let me be blunt ......Woman who have affairs, justify that the OM must have been sincere, charming, caring to 'persuade' intimacy. The fact is.....they know exactly what was going on at that time. They were flirting and you both knew it. If a woman doesn't justify this, she would have to accept that she was 'used'. This in not generally accepted in society. The truth is, IMHO that the ladies were using the men just as much!!!

 

Aptly put! Though "Denial" (pron) starts as a river in Egypt it's flow meanders across the entire world!