Father wanting to have a DNA test. Wrong or Right?

August 27, 2008

GrnEyedGemini I completely agree. There are a lot of men and women out there willing to be a real parent to a child, it does not matter the condition surrounding that child's birth. But, it is a choice that should be freely made. In some cases, some men in women don't want to raise children they did not birth. I am partially one of those. I have no problem being a father figure to a woman I love child. However, I let her know up front, I want to have at least two children with her and if she is not up for it, I move on. It does not mean I treat her poorly or the children, but I find a woman who is looking to have children with me.

DNR

August 27, 2008

Here's another take on this.

When I was 12, my brother and I learned, that -

SURPRISE!!!

We had twin half-sisters who were five or so years older than us. We were devastated. And me, as "daddy's little girl" mostly so. He had two other daughters, older than me. I was not the only one. :sick:

A DNA test was never done, and I believe there should have been. It was all swept under the rug; they weren't a big part of our lives; it broke my mom's heart, etc. etc. but I have ALWAYS wondered whether they are really his. They sort of look like him, but sort of don't....hmmm.

He's MY dad. Hmph.

August 29, 2008

This thread gives me mixed feelings. At the time my marriage broke up, shortly after the divorce (which was immediate, literally on demand/no fault/72 hours total where I lived then) my ex threw the possibility that my oldest child, my daughter could have been her affair partners (20 years earlier) as easily as it might have been mine. This threw me for a huge loop. I literally couldn't stop thinking about the possiblity.

After my daughter visited me for 48 hours, I did contact an online test service, ($900.00 back then) and had a test run privately. Six weeks later it was confirmed happily my daughter was my blood.

I have never told my daughter about this, or anyone beside my closest friend and mentor. I hadn't thought of it for maybe 6 years until reading this thread.

I honestly don't know what I would have done had the tests indicated that my daughter wasn't biologically mine. At the time I contracted the test it wasn't in my mind. I just had to know.

In hindsight I know that my ex said what she did to continue to damage me. For a while she was into that kind of torture. I was told by a psyciatrist friend that most likely it was out of guilt. It didn't last long, she gave up when she realized I didn't care anymore.

I hope I forget typing this, and never have these memories again.

August 29, 2008

It sounds like you are trying to justify having the test done. Why do you really want it?

First off there is on reason to analysis me. This is just a question. I do not have children nor am I expecting one on the way.

Because regardless of what other benefits there might be applying a DNA test, the usual reason is to check paternity. It's not illegal to do it, but as you say there is a certain stigma attached. I'd say that's probably because

a) it suggests a suspicion, on the man's part, that the mother is dishonest. If you're in a relationship with someone, not trusting them would suggest to a lot of people that the relationship wasn't a particularly happy or loving one. Unhappy, unloving couples carry that stigma that unhappiness always carries.

b) From most people's perspective, childbirth should be a very happy time. DNA testing clouds that.

Carrying it out might be a very rational decision, but you'll never stop other people from getting negative feelings about those who apply clinical detachment towards their own children. "I want to check that it's mine..."

I've worked in family law in the past. Every so often I'd get a woman coming in saying that her ex was insisting on getting DNA carried out because he wasn't happy about the child support payments he was making. Sometimes (due to lack of childminding facilities available) the mother would take the child in with her to discuss this...and I hated those situations with an absolute passion.

I'd say something along the lines of "I can discuss our terms of engagement with you, but I'd prefer if you made another appointment to come in on your own." Then the mother would assure me that the child already knew the situation (ie that daddy wanted to do a test to find out whether he really was daddy "because he doesn't want to give me money to buy you food and clothes.") It's more horrible and distressing than I can describe to see a child trying to maintain a nonchalant expression in a lawyer's office while something like that is being discussed.

And that's why there's stigma about it, Hyperpen. Because people care about children and they care about the impact on a child of finding out that daddy's wondering whether he really is daddy. However much diplomacy and positive rewording you use in a situation like that when you're explaining it to a child. However much of a positive spin you try to put on it, there's going to be a lingering question in that child's mind of "daddy doesn't want me."

You seem to be asking for the stigma to be taken out of DNA testing. Fine. Present society with effective methods of preventing tested children from being emotionally distressed by the dubiety surrounding their parentage, and you'll be on your way towards arguing successfully that there's no need for any stigma to be attached to this.

ETA - I was reading a little on non-invasive prenatal paternity testing, which seems more sensible. Unless you make something like that standard procedure, inevitably there's always going to be some stigma attached though eg for reason a) that I gave earlier.

There's generally stigma attached to mistrust within a marriage - though pragmatically, there's good reason not to engage in blind trust, and regardless of what ideals the romantic in most of us would like to believe in, statistics about cheating do tend to back that up.

This is a social issue that has become psychological. For most women, this is a very sensitive situation because most women who strongly disagree with this feel that it destroys the bliss of the moment. The fact that society has ruined the concept of Paternity DNA has made it difficult for men to want to have it just for hereditary inquiry and treasury.

To state,"Daddy wanted a DNA test to prove you were his" is a subjective statement to even tell a child. It's cynical in itself. Your are responsible for forging that cynic information inside that child's mind. If you teach stigma of the matter to your child they will grow up thinking way... But if you teach them that it allows access to their health history In case of an inherited health problem or Paternity leave rights, then it will not be a social stigma...

Medical science and documentation is inherent when it comes to pregnancy and newborn infants nowadays. We use epidural to suppress labor pains, man made medications are injected in our newborns to prevent them from obtaining diseases, we sign birth certificates to identify that the child is ours, etc; Why not do a DNA test?

Yes, the only way this will be non-stigmatized in the minds of all is if it was a standard procedure.

If you read the benefits and over cloud them with negativity, you will forever be bias against it. The father will forever be look at as cynical even when, in his mind, he knows it's his child and only wants to rep from the benefits.

August 29, 2008

First off there is on reason to analysis me. This is just a question. I do not have children nor am I expecting one on the way.

This is a social issue that has become psychological. For most women, this is a very sensitive situation because most women who strongly disagree with this feel that it destroys the bliss of the moment. The fact that society has ruined the concept of Paternity DNA has made it difficult for men to want to have it just for hereditary inquiry and treasury.

To state,"Daddy wanted a DNA test to prove you were his" is a subjective statement to even tell a child. It's cynical in itself. Your are responsible for forging that cynic information inside that child's mind. If you teach stigma of the matter to your child they will grow up thinking way... But if you teach them that it allows access to their health history In case of an inherited health problem or Paternity leave rights, then it will not be a social stigma...

Medical science and documentation is inherent when it comes to pregnancy and newborn infants nowadays. We use epidural to suppress labor pains, man made medications are injected in our newborns to prevent them from obtaining diseases, we sign birth certificates to identify that the child is ours, etc; Why not do a DNA test?

Yes, the only way this will be non-stigmatized in the minds of all is if it was a standard procedure.

If you read the benefits and over cloud them with negativity, you will forever be bias against it. The father will forever be look at as cynical even when, in his mind, he knows it's his child and only wants to rep from the benefits.

Well, thats just the way it is. Unless you want to go around forcing that into every single person's head. There is and always will be a stigma associated with getting a DNA test. The first thing a person will suspect is that the man doesn't think the child is his. No amount of trying to explain will change it. AND...children are not stupid. They are tons smarter than adults think. They pick up on everything. They may not fully understand it, but they DO pick up on those things and the vibes that adults put out when something intense like this is going on.

August 29, 2008

I haven't read any of the other posts but if the child is young enough, baby age or toddler, I wouldn't care if the father of any future child were to ask for a DNA test. It's his right to do so and he'll find it's his. That's a given.

I would fight him tooth and nail if the child were older, since children should never be made to feel unwanted or not respected, in anyway.

Any man is a moron and no father to the child, if he waits until the child is older to ask this. In waiting that long, the bonding process has happened within the child. If you wait that long, biology shoudn't matter since emotionally, the man is already the father according to the child.

August 29, 2008

I haven't read any of the other posts but if the child is young enough, baby age or toddler, I wouldn't care if the father of any future child were to ask for a DNA test. It's his right to do so and he'll find it's his. That's a given.

I would fight him tooth and nail if the child were older, since children should never be made to feel unwanted or not respected, in anyway.

Any man is a moron and no father to the child, if he waits until the child is older to ask this. In waiting that long, the bonding process has happened within the child. If you wait that long, biology shoudn't matter since emotionally, the man is already the father according to the child.

Well said!

August 29, 2008

Well, thats just the way it is. Unless you want to go around forcing that into every single person's head. There is and always will be a stigma associated with getting a DNA test. The first thing a person will suspect is that the man doesn't think the child is his. No amount of trying to explain will change it. AND...children are not stupid. They are tons smarter than adults think. They pick up on everything. They may not fully understand it, but they DO pick up on those things and the vibes that adults put out when something intense like this is going on.

Well just like the social stigma was forced in our heads, it can be forced out. It's called change. And if a child does pick up on it in a negative prospective, their must be cynical people around him/her putting that nonsense in his/her head. We are all influenced and manipulated by societies opinion to what is right or wrong. How does a child innately picks up that his/her father getting a DNA test means the father doesn't think that he/she is his child? That's nonsensical!

August 29, 2008

Well just like the social stigma was forced in our heads, it can be forced out. It's called change. And if a child does pick up on it in a negative prospective, their must be cynical people around him/her putting that nonsense in his/her head. We are all influenced and manipulated by societies opinion to what is right or wrong. How does a child innately picks up that his/her father getting a DNA test means the father doesn't think that he/she is his child? That's nonsensical!

What in the world other reason could there be??

August 29, 2008

What in the world other reason could there be??

I don't know... you tell me?

If you continue to think one-sided, I can see why I would sound illogical.

August 29, 2008

If you don't think the kids' yours have the test. Who cares what others think? YOU have to live with the doubt and if you don't want to live with it then don't.

August 29, 2008

Well just like the social stigma was forced in our heads, it can be forced out. It's called change. And if a child does pick up on it in a negative prospective, their must be cynical people around him/her putting that nonsense in his/her head. We are all influenced and manipulated by societies opinion to what is right or wrong. How does a child innately picks up that his/her father getting a DNA test means the father doesn't think that he/she is his child? That's nonsensical!

I wasn't trying to be rude...I was just saying that unless you go around explaining to everyone that reason, the stigma is going to stick. And I completely agree TBF...thats the point I was trying to make. If its not done at birth or at a very young age, it could be damaging to the child. Children pick up on those things not by only what is said, but tone of voice, pitch of voice, non-verbal cues, sub-concious clues, etc.. Children are way better at that than adults because they are far more open and still have an innocent view of the world. They are far more impressionable and the fact that adults think they are not intellectual human beings, which they are...just the younger version, or capable of understanding complex situations makes the child pay attention closer to the non-verbal parts of communication. It makes perfect sense if you understand children and their psyche. However, most adults don't because they are busy being an adult and dealing with adult matters...such as deciding to get a DNA test.

August 29, 2008

I don't know... you tell me?

If you continue to think one-sided, I can see why I would sound illogical.

I am actually asking that question. It wasn't a rhetorical question.

So far the only reason you told me was about medical records...but I know that you have access to those without a DNA test. My whole family is in the medical field, so I know what is needed for access to medical records. So I am genuinely asking you.... what other reason is there?

August 29, 2008

I wasn't trying to be rude...I was just saying that unless you go around explaining to everyone that reason, the stigma is going to stick. And I completely agree TBF...thats the point I was trying to make. If its not done at birth or at a very young age, it could be damaging to the child. Children pick up on those things not by only what is said, but tone of voice, pitch of voice, non-verbal cues, sub-concious clues, etc.. Children are way better at that than adults because they are far more open and still have an innocent view of the world. They are far more impressionable and the fact that adults think they are not intellectual human beings, which they are...just the younger version, or capable of understanding complex situations makes the child pay attention closer to the non-verbal parts of communication. It makes perfect sense if you understand children and their psyche. However, most adults don't because they are busy being an adult and dealing with adult matters...such as deciding to get a DNA test.

I get what you're saying now and I agree. When older (that consciously awareness age) I don't think it's a good idea. Now getting a DNA test while the child is an infant and you telling them later is a different situation. It's up to the parents whether they want to feed them positive information about DNA testing or negative.

August 30, 2008

So Hyperpen, I will ask one more time. If not for doubted paternity then what would the reason be?

by the way..I am all for DNA testing, it should be done more often.

August 30, 2008

It's tricky. In general I absolutely understand the father's desire to have 100% certainty, but if the father of my / our child would ask for a DNA test, it implies a trust issue, and I would be upset by him even questioning my loyalty. But rationally I understand the desire, especially in our society nowadays, and I would let him do it.

August 30, 2008

It's tricky. In general I absolutely understand the father's desire to have 100% certainty, but if the father of my / our child would ask for a DNA test, it implies a trust issue, and I would be upset by him even questioning my loyalty. But rationally I understand the desire, especially in our society nowadays, and I would let him do it.

Having been cheated on myself, I fully understand trust issues of this nature.

There are also sufficient statistics out there, that there's a subsection of the population who've pawned off someone else's child. I have zero respect for women like this.

August 30, 2008

So Hyperpen, I will ask one more time. If not for doubted paternity then what would the reason be?

by the way..I am all for DNA testing, it should be done more often.

This goes to show that you did not read my very first post which explains the topic. Go back, read it again, and then you will find your answer....

August 31, 2008

If a father wanted to have a DNA test just to have for his own records, is it cynical? Socially, getting a DNA test signifies to your Wife/SO that you do not believe you're the father of your child. But that's not always the case. There are all kinds of benefits when having a DNA Paternity Test. It allows access to a child’s health history: In case of an inherited health problem, it’s useful for health care providers to know both maternal and paternal health history. To establish identity and a history. Some people are stressed by not knowing their family history; paternity testing is one way to help solve this issue, and for claiming paternity leave rights.

Science has advice tremendously so why should a father wanting to have DNA records be a social stigma?

Nope, didn't answer my question. If the items bolded are what you were trying to refer to, let me remind you these are invalid reasons. If you are the assumed father then you have access to all of these things. No DNA test needed to look at a family members medical records.

August 31, 2008

porter218 is right, hyperpen. i do not think a dna test is what you think it is. if you are looking for some kind of biological key that might reveal the secrets of a child's genetics to you, you need to look into other, more in-depth kinds of testing, which can usually only be done either in-utero or with the child's blood, and go by other names. these tests are quite routinely performed while the mother is still pregnant to warn of any potential problems with the fetus/pregnancy; others can easily be run while the child is a baby. such tests are usually identified by the names of the disease potentials they test for, and i have had several performed during my pregnancy. still other tests can be performed which might be able to pinpoint geographic location of ancestors; they're somewhat scientifically controversial and definitely never covered by medical insurance, but my partner is thinking of having one done on himself because nobody in his family has any idea where one of his grandfather's is from. no societal stigma is attached to any of those tests. however: the dna test you appear to be referring to in this thread, which is commonly referred to as will ONLY reveal the child's paternity. therefore, obviously, the ONLY reason to get one done is because the child's paternity is in doubt, which is why this test carries a stigma.

i'm not saying it shouldn't be done, if there's any trust issue at all. but to be clear, the dna paternity test you are talking about is NOT going to give you any clues about a child's medical/biological blueprint. this is why porter218 is telling you to look in the family medical records for that information.

August 31, 2008

porter218 is right, hyperpen. i do not think a dna test is what you think it is. if you are looking for some kind of biological key that might reveal the secrets of a child's genetics to you, you need to look into other, more in-depth kinds of testing, which can usually only be done either in-utero or with the child's blood, and go by other names. these tests are quite routinely performed while the mother is still pregnant to warn of any potential problems with the fetus/pregnancy; others can easily be run while the child is a baby. such tests are usually identified by the names of the disease potentials they test for, and i have had several performed during my pregnancy. still other tests can be performed which might be able to pinpoint geographic location of ancestors; they're somewhat scientifically controversial and definitely never covered by medical insurance, but my partner is thinking of having one done on himself because nobody in his family has any idea where one of his grandfather's is from. no societal stigma is attached to any of those tests. however: the dna test you appear to be referring to in this thread, which is commonly referred to as will ONLY reveal the child's paternity. therefore, obviously, the ONLY reason to get one done is because the child's paternity is in doubt, which is why this test carries a stigma.

i'm not saying it shouldn't be done, if there's any trust issue at all. but to be clear, the dna paternity test you are talking about is NOT going to give you any clues about a child's medical/biological blueprint. this is why porter218 is telling you to look in the family medical records for that information.

Yeah, I think somehow Hyperpen has confused DNA testing with Genetic testing. Or maybe he is trying to pass off doubted paternity as concerns about genetic traits.

September 1, 2008

I haven't read any of the other posts but if the child is young enough, baby age or toddler, I wouldn't care if the father of any future child were to ask for a DNA test. It's his right to do so and he'll find it's his. That's a given.

I would fight him tooth and nail if the child were older, since children should never be made to feel unwanted or not respected, in anyway.

Any man is a moron and no father to the child, if he waits until the child is older to ask this. In waiting that long, the bonding process has happened within the child. If you wait that long, biology shoudn't matter since emotionally, the man is already the father according to the child.

How about those men who truly loved and trusted their women? There was a case on one of the court programs where a man who was married with to this woman for 14 years, never suspecting that she cheated on him, decided to get a test on all three of his children before they hit Splitsville. Lo and behold, on one child was his, the middle one. Now, if he is getting divorced, and is manning to pay for his child, should he have to pay for the other two? Is that fair to him? So, yeah, if I were a man getting a divorced after years of marriage and knowing the children, I would get tested to ensure I am taking care of my responsibility.

Lets face it, its all about the money. Plain and simple. Sometimes courts make people pay ridiculous amounts of child support and depending on a person's income, career, and lifestyle, some guys are practically living in the poor house or have to work two jobs just to have a secure life, this is not to say a child should not, but there has to be some logic, care, and wisdom for all parties in this. So, if the child is not his, the child's support should not be on that unwitting man. It sucks that the child(ren) have to suffer, but should the innocent male have to suffer because the woman he was with was a louse? If anyone is the villain, it is the woman and her disgusting ways, and she is the one responsible for all the chaos. Make her work to support her children or find the man/men who she slept with.

DNR

Yes, I have a problem with people who go around doing whatever, not caring or thinking about the problems his or her activities may concern.

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Father wanting to have a DNA test. Wrong or Right?

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