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Father wanting to have a DNA test. Wrong or Right?


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Posted

If a father wanted to have a DNA test just to have for his own records, is it cynical? Socially, getting a DNA test signifies to your Wife/SO that you do not believe you're the father of your child. But that's not always the case. There are all kinds of benefits when having a DNA Paternity Test. It allows access to a child’s health history: In case of an inherited health problem, it’s useful for health care providers to know both maternal and paternal health history. To establish identity and a history. Some people are stressed by not knowing their family history; paternity testing is one way to help solve this issue, and for claiming paternity leave rights.

 

Science has advice tremendously so why should a father wanting to have DNA records be a social stigma?

Posted

It sounds like you are trying to justify having the test done. Why do you really want it?

Posted
If a father wanted to have a DNA test just to have for his own records, is it cynical?
No, it's smart. It is estimated that the percentage of men paying child support for children that aren't theirs is upwards of 30%.

 

Right now eight States are considering/have passed laws which allow for the cancellation of child support when Paternity Fraud is proven.

 

I expect that sooner rather than later mandatory DNA testing will be required to keep Paternity Fraud cases from clogging up court dockets.

Posted

In answer to your original question...yes, it sounds cynical. It sounds like you have a child whose paternity you are unsure of. You have every right to request a DNA test but make no mistake - however much you go on about health history etc., the mother (your wife?) is likely to see through that and know that her fidelity and integrity are being called into question. (People who are concerned about health and family history usually do DNA/genetic testing *before* ever trying to have children.) You'll have to ask yourself if knowing the paternity is worth the damage that could be sustained to your relationships with your wife and child.

Posted
Science has advice tremendously so why should a father wanting to have DNA records be a social stigma?

 

Because regardless of what other benefits there might be applying a DNA test, the usual reason is to check paternity. It's not illegal to do it, but as you say there is a certain stigma attached. I'd say that's probably because

 

a) it suggests a suspicion, on the man's part, that the mother is dishonest. If you're in a relationship with someone, not trusting them would suggest to a lot of people that the relationship wasn't a particularly happy or loving one. Unhappy, unloving couples carry that stigma that unhappiness always carries.

 

b) From most people's perspective, childbirth should be a very happy time. DNA testing clouds that.

 

Carrying it out might be a very rational decision, but you'll never stop other people from getting negative feelings about those who apply clinical detachment towards their own children. "I want to check that it's mine..."

 

I've worked in family law in the past. Every so often I'd get a woman coming in saying that her ex was insisting on getting DNA carried out because he wasn't happy about the child support payments he was making. Sometimes (due to lack of childminding facilities available) the mother would take the child in with her to discuss this...and I hated those situations with an absolute passion.

 

I'd say something along the lines of "I can discuss our terms of engagement with you, but I'd prefer if you made another appointment to come in on your own." Then the mother would assure me that the child already knew the situation (ie that daddy wanted to do a test to find out whether he really was daddy "because he doesn't want to give me money to buy you food and clothes.") It's more horrible and distressing than I can describe to see a child trying to maintain a nonchalant expression in a lawyer's office while something like that is being discussed.

 

And that's why there's stigma about it, Hyperpen. Because people care about children and they care about the impact on a child of finding out that daddy's wondering whether he really is daddy. However much diplomacy and positive rewording you use in a situation like that when you're explaining it to a child. However much of a positive spin you try to put on it, there's going to be a lingering question in that child's mind of "daddy doesn't want me."

 

You seem to be asking for the stigma to be taken out of DNA testing. Fine. Present society with effective methods of preventing tested children from being emotionally distressed by the dubiety surrounding their parentage, and you'll be on your way towards arguing successfully that there's no need for any stigma to be attached to this.

 

ETA - I was reading a little on non-invasive prenatal paternity testing, which seems more sensible. Unless you make something like that standard procedure, inevitably there's always going to be some stigma attached though eg for reason a) that I gave earlier.

 

There's generally stigma attached to mistrust within a marriage - though pragmatically, there's good reason not to engage in blind trust, and regardless of what ideals the romantic in most of us would like to believe in, statistics about cheating do tend to back that up.

Posted

There are A LOT of men out there raising kids that assume they are the biological father to but are not. This happens much much more than people assume.

 

I think if the father feels the need to have a test done then he should just do it.

Posted

Can't the test be done without the child's knowledge? Ie snip a piece of hair while he's sleeping etc?

Posted
Can't the test be done without the child's knowledge? Ie snip a piece of hair while he's sleeping etc?

 

I agree with you. I think if someone wants to do a test, then if at all possible it should be done without the child's knowledge...but the various laws we have on freedom of information, human rights etc brings all manner of complications. We live by a philosophy now that everything should be open and above board. Discretion has become a dirty word...but in many ways that that creates more in the way of stress and problems than it actually solves.

 

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if I suddenly found out that a paternity test had been conducted on me when I was a kid. I think I'd be taken aback, and I'd wonder what had been going on between my parents back then...but I've had a lifetime of being treated like a daughter by my father, and I'm certain a revelation like that wouldn't have any significant impact on my relationship with him.

 

Thinking back to childhood, however, if I'd found out that a test was going to be done to find out whether my dad was my dad - I'd have been utterly devastated. Something like that could be hard to recover from.

 

With all our rules about being open and honest with children, society sometimes behaves as though they're miniature adults and forget that there are some truths they should be protected from until they're old enough to cope with those truths.

Posted

There may come a time in that child's life when it is absolutely vital to know the parentage. Imagine if the child needed a donor organ, or a marrow donation or something that would necessitate a genetic match and the mother was not as good of a match as the father would be? It is always good to know.

 

Of course, if something like that did happen - it would not be long before it was found out that there was not a genetic match. Not a great time to be finding it out that way.

 

In terms of wondering if the child is yours - what leads you to think you need a DNA test? Are you suspicious?

Posted

Every child has the right to know who their parents are. Women who knowingly conceal true parentage or trick men into raising kids who are not theirs should be... punished somehow. Maybe lose a toe or something, I haven't thought it through.

Posted

My last child was conceived post-vasectomy and of course that raised eyebrows. I offered a test, but in the end, he didn't want it. Of course, it helped that the baby came out as a miniature version of my husband.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with him requesting one now. I think it's perfectly reasonable if there are suspicions of an affair, and the innocent party should have no problem providing the reassurance of their innocence.

Posted
Carrying it out might be a very rational decision, but you'll never stop other people from getting negative feelings about those who apply clinical detachment towards their own children. "I want to check that it's mine..."

 

I've worked in family law in the past. Every so often I'd get a woman coming in saying that her ex was insisting on getting DNA carried out because he wasn't happy about the child support payments he was making. Sometimes (due to lack of childminding facilities available) the mother would take the child in with her to discuss this...and I hated those situations with an absolute passion.

 

I'd say something along the lines of "I can discuss our terms of engagement with you, but I'd prefer if you made another appointment to come in on your own." Then the mother would assure me that the child already knew the situation (ie that daddy wanted to do a test to find out whether he really was daddy "because he doesn't want to give me money to buy you food and clothes.") It's more horrible and distressing than I can describe to see a child trying to maintain a nonchalant expression in a lawyer's office while something like that is being discussed.

 

And that's why there's stigma about it, Hyperpen. Because people care about children and they care about the impact on a child of finding out that daddy's wondering whether he really is daddy. However much diplomacy and positive rewording you use in a situation like that when you're explaining it to a child. However much of a positive spin you try to put on it, there's going to be a lingering question in that child's mind of "daddy doesn't want me."

All excellent points. It is a parent's job to be an advocate for their child's well-being. I don't know what can be done when parent's are unable to behave as effective advocates.

 

 

You seem to be asking for the stigma to be taken out of DNA testing. Fine. Present society with effective methods of preventing tested children from being emotionally distressed by the dubiety surrounding their parentage, and you'll be on your way towards arguing successfully that there's no need for any stigma to be attached to this.
Automatic testing would mean no stigma unless you were caught out.

 

 

 

 

 

There may come a time in that child's life when it is absolutely vital to know the parentage. Imagine if the child needed a donor organ, or a marrow donation or something that would necessitate a genetic match and the mother was not as good of a match as the father would be? It is always good to know.

 

Of course, if something like that did happen - it would not be long before it was found out that there was not a genetic match. Not a great time to be finding it out that way.

This is indeed what launched many of the the earliest lawsuits including one that went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. In the Supreme Court case, genetic testing due to illness revealed that the child wasn't the presumed Father's. The remaining children were tested. Three out of four were another man's child, only the eldest was his. He was paying child support for all four of course.

 

He lost his case but his public battle created a groundswell of support for men's rights and holding women/other men accountable for Paternity Fraud.

Posted

I would like to point out that the villain here is the woman who perpetrates fraud against both the Father and child with devastating consequences.

 

The presumed father as well as the child are innocent.

Posted
There are A LOT of men out there raising kids that assume they are the biological father to but are not. This happens much much more than people assume.

 

I think if the father feels the need to have a test done then he should just do it.

I recently saw that 50% of men at some point question the paternity of their children. But I think hyperpen is using some whacked logic to explain his desire for a paternity test. You can't claim the whole medical history thing because with or with out a test you have access to this information if you are playing the role of daddy. With that kind of wacko logic, then most mothers have no access to medical records:confused: because majority of mothers don't get DNA tests. Really Hyper just be honest about your reasons..it's OK to doubt paternity as long as you still own up to your responsibility until you are proven to not be the father. And if you don't want your childs mother to know your doubts then go to the drug store and buy one of those $20 DNA kits(they have them at many drug stores) and do it yourself..you only have to pay ~$120 for lab fees and it is a do at home private test.

Posted

i can't see now reason for a test. no woman would ever knowling decieve her husband would she?:mad:

Posted
i can't see now reason for a test. no woman would ever knowling decieve her husband would she?:mad:

Yes..this happens way too often. It is the most despicable thing a woman can do, but it does happen. I have known of a couple cases personally. Usually it is a matter of concealing the knowledge that there is a possibility of someone else being the father, not a definite known other father.

Posted

Ya know...I have a completely different take on this...as I was a child that found out at a young age that "daddy" wasn't really my father.

 

I found out at age 8 that the man I had been calling daddy for as long as I could remember wasn't my real dad. I found out that my mom had me at 16 and when she was 18...I was barely 2, she married him and had my brother. So as long as I could remember...he was my dad. The thing is...he didn't care. (well, at that time, before all the drama...but that's a whole other story, lol) He was my dad and continued to be my dad although we really weren't blood father/daughter.

 

I don't think paternity makes a dad. Anyone can impregnate a woman. Its not that hard. To actually care and love, that is a dad. Blood shouldn't matter if you love the child. Say a divorce happens....if you love the child, then you should care what happens to him/her....if he/she has food and shelter...if he/she has clothes and school supply...if he/she is being shown enough love. If you really love the child...should it matter if your DNA matches? No. Because being a dad is all about loving the child, taking care of the child, and actually being a dad. If you say you love the child...why does it matter if he/she is technically yours? For your own selfish reasons? If that's the case, you don't need to be a dad anyway.

 

Thats just the way to look at it from my perspective. I've been there. Its not really that devestating...unless the man decides to not be the dad anymore. (Been there too.) That is the heartbreaking part.

Posted
Ya know...I have a completely different take on this...as I was a child that found out at a young age that "daddy" wasn't really my father.

 

I found out at age 8 that the man I had been calling daddy for as long as I could remember wasn't my real dad. I found out that my mom had me at 16 and when she was 18...I was barely 2, she married him and had my brother. So as long as I could remember...he was my dad. The thing is...he didn't care. (well, at that time, before all the drama...but that's a whole other story, lol) He was my dad and continued to be my dad although we really weren't blood father/daughter.

 

I don't think paternity makes a dad. Anyone can impregnate a woman. Its not that hard. To actually care and love, that is a dad. Blood shouldn't matter if you love the child. Say a divorce happens....if you love the child, then you should care what happens to him/her....if he/she has food and shelter...if he/she has clothes and school supply...if he/she is being shown enough love. If you really love the child...should it matter if your DNA matches? No. Because being a dad is all about loving the child, taking care of the child, and actually being a dad. If you say you love the child...why does it matter if he/she is technically yours? For your own selfish reasons? If that's the case, you don't need to be a dad anyway.

 

Thats just the way to look at it from my perspective. I've been there. Its not really that devestating...unless the man decides to not be the dad anymore. (Been there too.) That is the heartbreaking part.

Hi GEG,

 

I agree with most of what you have to say here.

 

However I still maintain that no woman has any right nor entitlement to perpetrate this fraud on any man or child.

 

Personally, I think there should be legal/financial consequences such that any woman would stop to think two or three or more times before proceeding. These are real people and real lives she is playing with.

Posted
Hi GEG,

 

I agree with most of what you have to say here.

 

However I still maintain that no woman has any right nor entitlement to perpetrate this fraud on any man or child.

 

Personally, I think there should be legal/financial consequences such that any woman would stop to think two or three or more times before proceeding. These are real people and real lives she is playing with.

 

 

I agree. It is wrong to knowingly dupe a man into believing he has a child. However, I still think if you care and love the child you should not have any wonderings if the kid is yours.

Posted

If I wasn't to serious with a girl and she got pregnant I would 100% want a test done (can they do them safely before the baby is born?) If I was already married or in a serious relationship and got some one pregnant I still might want a test who knows. Obviously the kid shouldn't know about this... and heck I don't know the law... but I wouldn't even tell the mother if thats an option. I heard that its a very reall phenom for a woman to have a ONS before a mariage and get impregnated by some other guy

Posted

Just do the test and skip the argument over whether it's justified or not. If you want to argue about it later, you still can.

Posted
I agree. It is wrong to knowingly dupe a man into believing he has a child. However, I still think if you care and love the child you should not have any wonderings if the kid is yours.

Well sometimes even when you love the child there are good reasons to wonder if it is yours. My H wants to test his second oldest(by another woman) to see if it is his because serious doubts have been brought up recently. He insists that he will always be that boys father no matter what the outcome because he has spent 12 years being his dad. I think anytime there is doubt then there is absolutely no reason to bypass testing...and if you have created a bond with that child then you should always be its dad even if tests say you aren't the father. Also anyone who says they are against testing seem to have forgotten that if the child in question isn't theirs, then it is someone elses..It isn't fair to deny the real father a chance to get to know their child.

Posted

you know what would be really wrong aproaching some random family who has a kid that looks like you but not naming you as the father and asking for a DNA test

Posted
[/b]

Well sometimes even when you love the child there are good reasons to wonder if it is yours. My H wants to test his second oldest(by another woman) to see if it is his because serious doubts have been brought up recently. He insists that he will always be that boys father no matter what the outcome because he has spent 12 years being his dad. I think anytime there is doubt then there is absolutely no reason to bypass testing...and if you have created a bond with that child then you should always be its dad even if tests say you aren't the father. Also anyone who says they are against testing seem to have forgotten that if the child in question isn't theirs, then it is someone elses..It isn't fair to deny the real father a chance to get to know their child.

 

 

I understand that reasoning. However, as I mentioned earlier...I have been there as the child. No matter whether the man says he will always love the child and be the dad, after finding out the child is not his...the relationship will change in some ways...just because he knows the kid isn't his. He probably won't mean to or even notice...but the child will notice.

 

And in alot of cases of the unknown father...the unknown father would like to remain unknown. I'm sure my real father feels that way just because what his actions show me.

 

But like I said at first, I can understand wanting to know. I just don't think it is beneficial to the child in any way if he/she already has a loving dad for that dad to question.

Posted

Hyperpen, to me it does not matter if your being cynical or not, but I would still do it anyway. I have heard horror stories about men who find out later in life that their children that they have been feeding and housing and paying for all these years were not theirs. And though they my not have had reasons to doubt at the time, if they only took the time to have the test done, they could of made other decisions for themselves.

 

Look, at least here in the states, men don't have much say in the way of things concerning a child in the womb. A woman could carry it or abort it as she desires with no discussion with you. As men, you need to do what you need to do to make sure you gain some control back. And a DNA test is the best way to do that. Because God forbid, ain't no why in heck I am going to unknowingly support a child that is not mine. And the woman could hate me for it all she wants, but I am getting that test done before I sign anything.

 

 

DNR

Guys protect yourselves, because the law sure isn't.

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