redfathom Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I know I am coming into this late, but I thought I would share. My H was going to a company function (relay race) in Vegas about three years ago. He came home told me about it and said that he would be sharing a room with a fellow co-worker (male) so they could both save some money on the trip. I told him I would really love to come and support him during his race (fist one he ever did). We talked about it and I thought I had made it clear. Two weeks later I asked him if he told his co-worker that I was coming and that he needed to get another person to split the room with. My H flat out lied to me and said that we (him and I) agreed that I would not be coming on this trip. I was livid. He was obviously trying very hard to go with out me. I had to put my foot down and I insisted on going. We stayed with his grandparents who live 15 min. from the strip. He was trying very hard to go with out me and if I trusted him I would have let him. Unfortunately I had already caught him on escort sites so letting him go to "Sin City" with out me was out of the questions. To this day I still resent it and don't trust him... Sorry I can't help, but I can kind of relate.
redfathom Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I think the most frustrating part is that you have to fight to spend time with him. I know that was hard for me, I kept asking, "Why do I have to try so hard to get him to want to spend time with me?" Like you have to force yourself on to him. I mean , if they love you it should be easy.
Angel1111 Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I can't possibly read this whole thread but I will say that I think it's incredibly immature of you to expect to travel with your husband when he's on a business trip. The fact that he has done things to lose credibility is a different issue than expecting to go on a business trip with him. I'd treat them as separate issues. Are you just constantly wanting to 'mommy' your husband? I would think that most men would consider this an insult. As far as the other things he's done, that's really up to you to decide whether you trust him or not. But putting him on the spot by requiring that you go with him each time he travels on business is just going to put a rift between you. Not to mention that his employer may see this as strange.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 I can't possibly read this whole thread but I will say that I think it's incredibly immature of you to expect to travel with your husband when he's on a business trip. The fact that he has done things to lose credibility is a different issue than expecting to go on a business trip with him. I'd treat them as separate issues. Are you just constantly wanting to 'mommy' your husband? I would think that most men would consider this an insult. As far as the other things he's done, that's really up to you to decide whether you trust him or not. But putting him on the spot by requiring that you go with him each time he travels on business is just going to put a rift between you. Not to mention that his employer may see this as strange. It was right in the literature about the trip that employees may bring guests. I don't think they'd point that out if they weren't okay with it, or expected it to some degree.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 I think the most frustrating part is that you have to fight to spend time with him. I know that was hard for me, I kept asking, "Why do I have to try so hard to get him to want to spend time with me?" Like you have to force yourself on to him. I mean , if they love you it should be easy. Did you read the link in the second post? It explains a lot, which should be common sense but sometimes you just need it spelled out; the more you push, the more they pull away. It's a vicious cycle, and hard to break. Lol, maybe we should go find us some needy, clingy guys! lol. NOT.
porter218 Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 When he left the house, he called his boss, who was traveling with him and four other salesguys from the dealership (all guys)...they met up and left their vehicles at the dealership while taking one to the airport. When he landed, he called me. The only calls sent or received while he was there were between he and I, and there were some texts from his boss and one of the guys traveling with things like "Meet in the lobby at 8 for breakfast." I don't see anything suspicious with his phone. Like I said before, it's open to me, and I can access it online, so I don't need to even have the physical phone (well, except for texts, but there's no history of deleting them). I hope I don't sound like I'm in denial, but I don't think cheating is the problem. I wouldn't really go as far as to say your in denial. But the whole phone off while out of town thing is just absolute cheater behavior. Perhaps he is just one of those occasional escort type of cheaters...many men in car sales are into that. And that is the hardest type of cheater to catch because they can do it in a simple 30 minutes unaccounted for..with little evidence left behind. I don't know what to tell you..just keep your eyes open..with his future behavior.
redfathom Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I did notice once I pulled away and became independant, my H wanted my attention. Little things like he would go down to work on his car and ask me to join him, or he would go to return some movies and ask me to go for a ride with him. I did turn some of these things down, because I didn't want to do them ...
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 I wouldn't really go as far as to say your in denial. But the whole phone off while out of town thing is just absolute cheater behavior. Perhaps he is just one of those occasional escort type of cheaters...many men in car sales are into that. And that is the hardest type of cheater to catch because they can do it in a simple 30 minutes unaccounted for..with little evidence left behind. I don't know what to tell you..just keep your eyes open..with his future behavior. Wouldn't an escort require money? His checks are direct deposited into our account and there's no missing money.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I wouldn't really go as far as to say your in denial. But the whole phone off while out of town thing is just absolute cheater behavior. Perhaps he is just one of those occasional escort type of cheaters...many men in car sales are into that. An absolutely ridiculous statement. Many men in car sales are into escorts??? Lonelyandfrustrated, I hope you are carefully screening some of the BS being posted here... Mr. Lucky
porter218 Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 An absolutely ridiculous statement. Many men in car sales are into escorts??? Lonelyandfrustrated, I hope you are carefully screening some of the BS being posted here... Mr. Lucky This doesn't come from my knowledge of a BS( my H isn't in car sales so it wouldn't even apply). This is #1 from the PI work I do on the side...#2 My friend owns an escort agency. Mr. Lucky, I am not so dumb as to assume all men cheat because mine did..I just look at facts and signs and make judgements based on individual cases. Wouldn't an escort require money? His checks are direct deposited into our account and there's no missing money. Well the ones that I have heard about from my friend who owns an escort agency. She said that they get a bonus check separate from their regular checks and that is what they used for escorts...because they knew the wifey didn't know about that money. But really I am by no means trying to say I am sure this is what your H is doing..just saying it is a possibility.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 There are occasionally bonus checks/cash, but some are listed on his paychecks (for accounting and tax purposes) and the others are reported in a 1099 at the end of the year. I went through all that crap years ago when trust issues came up. I suspected him of hiding money from me, so I went through all of his pay stubs and year-end stuff (1099, w-2) and reconciled them to the bank account and it all added up just fine. No income missing. What a waste of time that was. Damn near drove myself crazy. When he changed jobs, I familiarized myself with the new paychecks and know where the bonus money is reported on them. I might take a closer look at this now, since I stopped driving myself crazy over it years ago when hours and hours of snooping and reconciling added up to nothing. When he gets what they call "Saturday Cash", he comes home and hands me all of it but $20-$40 that he uses for lunch, coffee. If he doesn't have cash, this stuff gets debited, so I would notice if he was debiting when claiming he kept the cash for those things. And maybe, since none of the 'typical' alarms are going off for cheating, I'll keep my focus on the problems we know we have: resentment, trust, smothering and avoidance. I'm trying not to invent new problems. Mr. Lucky, thank you, I am screening carefully. I know to take the things that make sense to me and toss the rest. Like the cheating stuff. I really don't believe that is the problem, but I'm open to consider it if someone comes along and says something that makes me go, "A-ha! He's doing exactly that!" (at least when I don't have a satisfactory explanation. A man trying to get out to do things with the guys doesn't necessarily mean that it's a cover. Sometimes they just, uh, want to get out and do guy things. Likewise, staying late doesn't automatically mean cheating, especially in his business.)
Mr. Lucky Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 He is. He sells high-end cars, though. $100k cars. He is in a business where the sale is the end result of much hand-holding and advance work. High-end customers expect the world to revolve around their schedule and catering to them is a time-consuming and often inconvenient process. He's probably working the extra hours and days to protect deals he's already got cooking. It might not be the best career for a family man with 4 kids simply because of the demands... Mr. Lucky
angie2443 Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 It might not be the best career for a family man with 4 kids simply because of the demands... Mr. Lucky Maybe this sums it up best.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 21, 2008 Author Posted August 21, 2008 He is in a business where the sale is the end result of much hand-holding and advance work. High-end customers expect the world to revolve around their schedule and catering to them is a time-consuming and often inconvenient process. He's probably working the extra hours and days to protect deals he's already got cooking. It might not be the best career for a family man with 4 kids simply because of the demands... Mr. Lucky Preaching to the choir, Mr. Lucky. Preaching to the choir.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Maybe this sums it up best. Preaching to the choir, Mr. Lucky. Preaching to the choir. I had a very lucrative job managing a high-end nightclub back during the disco craze in the 70's, making six-figures back when gas was still 50 cents a gallon. Even though I really liked what I was doing, it didn't take long after my son was born to understand that going to work 6 days a week at 7:00 pm and getting home when the sun was rising - and trying to sleep during the day - wasn't going to leave me any time to be a father. My wife and I agreed that I'd hang in there for two years, we'd save like crazy and then I'd switch to something with more conventional hours and demands. You and your husband may have a similar choice ahead of you, hope it works out ... Mr. Lucky
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 21, 2008 Author Posted August 21, 2008 I had a very lucrative job managing a high-end nightclub back during the disco craze in the 70's, making six-figures back when gas was still 50 cents a gallon. Even though I really liked what I was doing, it didn't take long after my son was born to understand that going to work 6 days a week at 7:00 pm and getting home when the sun was rising - and trying to sleep during the day - wasn't going to leave me any time to be a father. My wife and I agreed that I'd hang in there for two years, we'd save like crazy and then I'd switch to something with more conventional hours and demands. You and your husband may have a similar choice ahead of you, hope it works out ... Mr. Lucky I wish he would come to these conclusions on his own, as you appear to have. We've been talking and trying to reach a compromise where we're both satisfied with the outcome, but it's like beans and bananas, we can't yet find the recipe that works. He said that he resents me always being over his shoulder, so i told him that if he didn't always have his back to me, I wouldn't be there, peering over. There's some skewed perspective going on. Last night, he said that I'm constantly calling him at work. But I don't. I never call the dealership itself, when I do call him, it's on his cell. I went and got his last phone statement and highlighted the times I've called his cell. There weren't many at all, maybe once every three days. And then I highlighted the calls from his cell to home. It's three and four times a day. He's calling me from work, but in his mind, it's me checking in on him. I don't know, I hope that seeing that in B/W helps him to get a better perspective on my perceived clingyness. I do have a huge problem with the overnight stuff, I admit that, but I'm not constantly checking up on him as he seems to think I do. How do we get past my perception of him as a husband who puts me last (yeah, labeling out how often he reaches out to me was an eye-opening experience for me, too), and his perception of me as a wife who constantly nags? I don't think either of us is seeing the reality, just the illusions that we create in our own brains. Damn brains.
Ronni_W Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 How do we get past my perception of him as a husband who puts me last (yeah, labeling out how often he reaches out to me was an eye-opening experience for me, too), and his perception of me as a wife who constantly nags? I don't think either of us is seeing the reality, just the illusions that we create in our own brains. Woo-hoo!!! Congrats on that HUGE breakthrough, Lonely The thing is, as I'm sure you're well aware, you can only change your own illusions, inaccurate perceptions and misguided thoughts/beliefs. And yes, that does take persistent reminding one's self of what the reality is, and constant effort and practice. Hopefully once you start acknowledging the positives that your REALITY holds, he will get caught up in the 'wave' of good vibes and his own perceptions will transform accordingly, consciously or unconsciously. Again, good work -- wishing you many more wonderful, happiness-inducing insights such as this one.
porter218 Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Maybe it is time to schedule a vacation together so you guys can reconnect. Go somewhere that they offer childcare so you two can be child free most of the time. If he is going to work so many hours to provide a good income maybe it is time for you guys to spend his income on something mutually beneficial.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 21, 2008 Author Posted August 21, 2008 Maybe it is time to schedule a vacation together so you guys can reconnect. Go somewhere that they offer childcare so you two can be child free most of the time. If he is going to work so many hours to provide a good income maybe it is time for you guys to spend his income on something mutually beneficial. This is a good suggestion, but the problem with it is that it's easy to be romantic and blissful when you're away from your daily life with all it's demands. But when that time is done, reality sets back in. We can do the 'all alone in our little love cocoon' really, really well. It's the rest of time that we're having trouble with! And thanks, Ronni. I just got ripped into in another thread for sharing a horrible experience from years ago, so your 'atta, girl!' helped bring me back to center and present. Thank you.
Ronni_W Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Glad I was there at the right time, Lonely. Can only suggest to ignore the "rippers" -- they got more probs than we could ever hope to have, IMHO. This is a good suggestion, but Okay...so now I gotta ask: how long before the insight arrives to NOT foul up "good suggestions" with negative self-talk? The "reality" over on your side has already changed for the positive, you said so yourself -- why not just run with Porter's EXCELLENT idea and be open for even MORE positives to enter your heart and home? (The one way I know to make my therapist absolutely crazy is to "yes, but" him...I do it for kicks, sometimes though. It's fun ... but when we do that to all suggestions that offer potential for what we truly desire, we will end up on the losing side. We have GOT to give the Universe at least a fighting chance to work its magic.) Okay...so...where are you guys going? All six of you deserve not only the holiday but also the lasting, positive results...I think...don't you?
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 21, 2008 Author Posted August 21, 2008 Okay...so now I gotta ask: how long before the insight arrives to NOT foul up "good suggestions" with negative self-talk? The "reality" over on your side has already changed for the positive, you said so yourself -- why not just run with Porter's EXCELLENT idea and be open for even MORE positives to enter your heart and home? (The one way I know to make my therapist absolutely crazy is to "yes, but" him...I do it for kicks, sometimes though. It's fun ... but when we do that to all suggestions that offer potential for what we truly desire, we will end up on the losing side. We have GOT to give the Universe at least a fighting chance to work its magic.) Okay...so...where are you guys going? All six of you deserve not only the holiday but also the lasting, positive results...I think...don't you? We just got back from a beach vacation a few weeks ago, but there wasn't any kid-free time except after they went to bed. We did have a blast, though. We left the oldest in the room with the littles while we walked along the beach in the moonlight, we snuck lots of smooches in the surf. We're very much in love when we're not ripping each other apart. I think at the very least we will plan an evening out.
porter218 Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 This is a good suggestion, but the problem with it is that it's easy to be romantic and blissful when you're away from your daily life with all it's demands. But when that time is done, reality sets back in. We can do the 'all alone in our little love cocoon' really, really well. It's the rest of time that we're having trouble with! And thanks, Ronni. I just got ripped into in another thread for sharing a horrible experience from years ago, so your 'atta, girl!' helped bring me back to center and present. Thank you. I knew you were going to say that.lol. But the truth is when you are away from reality like that, then it gives you the time to talk about how you will maintain this happiness once you get back to the real world. It improves your outlook in the relationship and helps you treat each other better when you get that happy away time. The night out idea is a good start. You need to make sure to continue to do stuff like that to keep you happy with your M. A M will not survive without effort.
Author lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 Well you could start a fire in your basement; but that would probable burn down your house. You should have small windows at the top of your basement which actually go outside. Open them up and put a few small fans in them sucking out the air... wtf? Where'd this come from?
Ronni_W Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Well you could start a fire in your basement...small windows ...fans in them sucking out the air... Paxton, I'm as confused as Lonely by your metaphor -- it is a metaphor, isn't it??? Lonely...maybe it just means be careful with those romance-inspiring aromatherapy candles after you light them? Nah...that can't be it...can it??? Or maybe, don't drown when you guys go on your next beach vacation. But seriously, DO NOT set your basement on fire without small fans!!!
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