Author shadowplay Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 IDK, I married a man that fits that pretty well. He's not the traditional kind of cute, but I think he's super sexy. There were some traits in you list that I had to negotiate on. i.e. He's emotionally available *most* of the time, but sometimes he gets hairs up his butt. He doesn't mind me being sad on occasion, but he gets irritated when I'm irrationally sad (which I get on occasion). I think the traits you described hold a huge area of subjective opinion. i.e. What does strong actually mean to YOU. Strong intellectually, strong character, strong physically... It might help you in finding a person you're really going to click with if you clarified why those things are important to you, what areas you're willing to negotiate on, and how each of those impacts your life. Its not rare.. but those traits describe a fairly well balanced individual who is comfortable with himself. Those types of people seek out others who have some what similiar traits. i.e. A woman who is fairly self-assured, intelligent, cute, emotionally stable, and down to earth. I'm gonna be blunt.. I think you're a wonderful, amazing woman Shadow.. but you're very insecure. You can be the most nurturing, give every thing to a guy, type of person. But that insecurity drives certain people away. Especially people who aren't insecure, who are confident in themselves. The type of man you described wanting. They aren't looking to be some ones sole support system. They want someone who can also challenge them, nurture them, confidently take the helm when problems arise. To meet those types of men, you have to be at a place in your life where you're comfortable and happy with who you are. Which doesn't take too long to make happen, it just takes a great deal of effort. I think you're a really awesome person Shadow. If you can reduce the number of times you think negatively about yourself, it'll give you more time to look outside of yourself. And I think you'll find it pretty easy to find a man who meets what you're looking for. p.s. I'm sorry if I offended you with anything I wrote. I don't mean to. No, you didn't at all. Thanks for the advice. I agree that my insecurity is a turn off. But part of what I was getting at is the kind of guy I'm describing might be annoyed by insecurity but wouldn't be totally turned off by it. He'd have enough of an open mind to see past that to the real person.
carhill Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 But part of what I was getting at is the kind of guy I'm describing might be annoyed by insecurity but wouldn't be totally turned off by it. He'd have enough of an open mind to see past that to the real person Would you have the trust to believe in his vision?
nopainnogain Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 I recommend you get used to being alone and doing things for yourself. Save for retirement so that isn't too miserable. Then like it or not, you'll die, and none of this will ever have mattered. I like this saying.
The Collector Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Women are da debil! We are the cause of all death and distruction on this planet! Heck, some of us even breed short men. Thanks for so beautifully proving my point. Men who dare contend that women might not be above criticism - in this case that they have spent twenty or thirty years campaigning for a 'New Man' it turns out they didn't fancy - are parodied as retarded woman-haters.
Sks Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Most females want to be controlled and dominated, at least to some degree. You can't want to be dominated and yet complain about him being controlling.
D-Jam Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Smart, cute, kind but not a pushover, confident, empathetic, strong, emotionally available without being mushy, enjoys helping his gf out from time to time. Doesn't mind a girl who is emotional and even sad on occasion. I don't care about money or social status -- those are the essential traits for me. (I don't have any tolerance for laziness or lack of ambition, though.) I'm starting to think this combination of traits is very rare. They exist, only most of the time these guys don't come packaged as the kinds of men most women want. Not pointing at you personally, but I've heard to death women say they want those very same traits, but then too often contradict themselves. I see them meet average, but handsome men with the traits, but these women wish the guy was a tad taller (so she can wear heels and look up to him), and/or they wish he was more athletically trimmed and dressed more "bad boy". I've seen them claim they want smart and confident, but try to see if they can change a jerk into a prince. I've seen them claim they want him to have a sensitive romantic side, but they get creeped out when a guy opens doors and brings them a flower on a first date...but yet complain to death about how their chosen boyfriends won't be romantic. I've seen women who claim money and status aren't important, but they still pass up the guy with a middle-class salary and chase doctors and lawyers who roll up in a porche. I've seen guys who are good men, and they aren't butt ugly, but women still reject them because they aren't "exciting" enough. I'm not trying to attack women in general here, but I am pointing out what MANY guys see. What we go by...how many females out there unfortunately say one thing, but then pursue another. I think it's fine to have those standards, but I tell any and all women that those standards won't come packaged as Brad Pitt or David Beckham. It's the same way I tell tons of guys that "good girls" don't come packaged as Playboy Playmates or other wild/scantily clad women. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I prefer a relationship where the guy is slightly more dominant, kind of in a protective role, without being controlling. Does that make sense? It seems like that balance is hard to find. Half the men gravitate toward super independent women in to order compensate for some insecurity of their own, while the other half go for passive women who they can control. I want something in between. I think there are some men who look for a "new mommy" when they pursue the more power-minded woman, but I will tell you that you'll find a lot more men who want the woman to be the subjugate. She has little or no opinion, prioritizes on looking great and serving her man. I know this sounds very opposing to the feminist logic, but that's life. On the other hand, you have the few like me who want the independent woman because we want a PARTNER. I don't need a new mom, nor do I want some woman who is all "yes dear" with me. I know my kind is more on the minority, but I think many women who meet a guy that seems to latch on to Ms Independent, but she might think he's a doormat...I think it's more that he respects her for her independence and likes that about her. A RL isn't a battle of wills, but more a fluid team. You also have to bear in mind that there are a LOT more men now who are anti-commitment, and just want sex, but no RL. To me the sexiest thing is a guy who enjoys teaching a woman how to do things, and treats her with a certain tenderness, but still respects her. Why is this so hard to find? Is it something about the age we live in? The problem is that too many men will have lives that are just plain uninteresting to women, but also too many women have expectations set in the past that many men now in the present aren't living. PLUS a lot of women need to realize in the psyche of the confident, strong, interesting, handsome man with a career and good income...he's not thinking about finding a good wife as much as he's looking for a hot trophy to lay this week. I've said it over and over that many men who have loads of options are going to be reluctant to commit, because they have so many options. Some fear committing and then finding someone better a week later, others just see women more as replaceable...so if one gets mad at his logic, he can easily replace her with a new girl next week. I'm not telling women to stop shooting for the alpha male, nor to settle on the nice guy doormat. What I am telling women is that they need to have a little more patience with men, more understanding, BUT not to be overly forgiving when bad behavior happens. I see more women forgiving cheating, abuse, and neglect...but they dump a guy or run when he suddenly shows sensitivity, weakness, or maybe didn't play things out as the suave gentleman, but more the slightly nervous human being. The ideal man, like the ideal woman, doesn't come all packaged up and ready to consume. It comes from him having a lot of what you like, but you giving him something to build himself into what you want...and him doing the same for you. Soulmates aren't pre-ordained, but more perfected by two people building a strong bond as a couple. Too many men and women think it's all supposed to happen instantly, and they have no patience to let things build into what they want. What is with so many guys going for women who project an air of haughty confidence over a woman who is kind and nurturing? Most men want the girl who will give him what he wants quickly. The wild outgoing fun girl who looks and dresses hot will always garner more attention from men over the conservative woman who hides in a shell. I dated a girl for 3 years who wanted to remain celibate til marriage, and we couldn't do much because she had a strict family. When things fell apart, I immediately set my sights out for a pretty woman who could date normally and would have sex. I see too many "good girls" forget the basic laws of attraction, much like how many "nice guys" do. Male or female, you're not going to attract as many possible mates if you're very overweight, or dress terribly. You're not going to have much luck if you hide in a corner all night, or act like a puritan/priest/nun to the people you meet. Everyone thinks they have a good balance, but at times they need to see why they are alone and having trouble. Sometimes it's that they aren't in the right places they need to be, other times they are not as attractive to the opposite sex as they might think they are.
Trialbyfire Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Do you men date men? If not, how would you know what other men think beyond reading askmen.com? It's not often that men talk to their buddies about their true feelings, particularly alpha males.
vonerik012 Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Do you men date men? If not, how would you know what other men think beyond reading askmen.com? It's not often that men talk to their buddies about their true feelings, particularly alpha males. UHHHH.. We are men.. Maybe that is how.... Do you know how we think better then we do ourselveS?
The Collector Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Do you men date men? If not, how would you know what other men think beyond reading askmen.com? It's not often that men talk to their buddies about their true feelings, particularly alpha males. Are you a man? If not, how would you know?
Trialbyfire Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Are you a man? If not, how would you know? Well, all this prattle about how men with options aren't interested in relationships is completely untrue. I've always dated men with options and have never had a problem finding a guy who wants a relationship.
vonerik012 Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Well, all this prattle about how men with options aren't interested in relationships is completely untrue. I've always dated men with options and have never had a problem finding a guy who wants a relationship. So, you are engaged now? Married? Serious boyfriend? Times have changed, and it is much easier just to have a FWB...I am not saying that is a good thing, but thats the way it is..
Jake Barnes Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Do you men date men? If not, how would you know what other men think beyond reading askmen.com? It's not often that men talk to their buddies about their true feelings, particularly alpha males.This is strange that you believe this Do you really buy into those stereotypes? Men talk about their feelings often with other men, even "alphamales"
Trialbyfire Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 This is strange that you believe this Do you really buy into those stereotypes? Men talk about their feelings often with other men, even "alphamales" Jake, of the guys I know, even my close male friends who are alpha, have to be prompted to discuss their feelings. I ask them a lot of questions and this is the information provided. They rarely discuss feelings with each other. They talk about "things" or "incidents" but they don't run around telling each other how much in love they are, etc. I have sat in on some guy b/s sessions which tend to surround "big fish" stories.
Jake Barnes Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Jake, of the guys I know, even my close male friends who are alpha, have to be prompted to discuss their feelings. I ask them a lot of questions and this is the information provided. They rarely discuss feelings with each other. They talk about "things" or "incidents" but they don't run around telling each other how much in love they are, etc. I have sat in on some guy b/s sessions which tend to surround "big fish" stories.Okay when it comes to romantic feelings guys dont get elaorate when talking to each other, but otherwise guys talk about their feelings all the time, especially if things are going badly I guess I resent the idea that all men are stoic, because Im not such a brave trooper myself, but most guys I meet arent particularly stoic, even the so called alphamales
Trialbyfire Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Okay when it comes to romantic feelings guys dont get elaorate when talking to each other, but otherwise guys talk about their feelings all the time, especially if things are going badly I guess I resent the idea that all men are stoic, because Im not such a brave trooper myself, but most guys I meet arent particularly stoic, even the so called alphamales Stoic no, but you must admit that not too many guys want to be viewed as "weak" or "desperate". Not one guy I've dated, married, been close friends with, would ever, ever admit they "needed" a woman, to another man. Whether they do or don't is individual reliant. Guys will be guys, especially the twenty-somethings who run around telling everyone how many chicks they banged on the weekend, when if they get lucky, it's one a month. No guy says to another guy over a beer, "well, ya', I'm looking for Ms. Right to love and start a family with!". What usually comes out is "yeah, I gotta' stop partying. Met this one hawt chick I like."
Jake Barnes Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Stoic no, but you must admit that not too many guys want to be viewed as "weak" or "desperate". Not one guy I've dated, married, been close friends with, would ever, ever admit they "needed" a woman, to another man. Whether they do or don't is individual reliant. Guys will be guys, especially the twenty-somethings who run around telling everyone how many chicks they banged on the weekend, when if they get lucky, it's one a month. No guy says to another guy over a beer, "well, ya', I'm looking for Ms. Right to love and start a family with!". What usually comes out is "yeah, I gotta' stop partying. Met this one hawt chick I like."Of course guys in their late 20's and early 30's talk to each other about whether they want kids or family The first quote sounded like an adult and the second sounded like a college age guy, not an alphamale
D-Jam Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 TrialByFire, I know there are men out there who have it all together, can walk into a room and pull a perfect 10 to come home with him...but they still choose a woman to marry and commit to. Unfortunately EXPERIENCES of hanging with such men and women who tried to catch such men taught me that those men aren't as high in number as many women want to believe. I've seen more guys who have great "game" want a life of just sexual flings and talk badly of dating and RLs...or believe they're not ready for it and they haven't met a woman worth marrying. Yeah, I used to post on Askmen, and I know of the negativity preached there, but my opinions stated have ALWAYS been based on my experiences watching both genders. I am not attacking women here and making them out to be shallow and flaky, but more just to hold up the mirror as to what I see happening. I see many women complain how they can't find a decent man, but yet they turn away loads of decent men because they don't come packaged the way they want them. Even worse are how many who have to get knocked up and abandoned before they come down to more realistic standards. I agree with you too that the "alphas" need to be prompted to spill their feelings. They've told me how they would love to get married, but feel like they wouldn't be able to be faithful because they like banging new women all the time...or they fear how the woman they pick will age and get ugly or fat. Yes this sounds shallow and such, but I simply am telling you what I hear. I think in the end for every woman who wants a decent good man, that they need to make sure they are LOOKING for that, and NOT HOPING to find that in a guy who doesn't show it from the get-go. The "hoping" is why I see so many women heartbroken and jaded.
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Of course guys in their late 20's and early 30's talk to each other about whether they want kids or family The first quote sounded like an adult and the second sounded like a college age guy, not an alphamale Not in a meaningful way and not very often. They're more likely to open up to female friends than their drinking or sports/drinking buddies. My example which includes both quotes, was for twenty-something guys in general.
vonerik012 Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Not in a meaningful way and not very often. They're more likely to open up to female friends than their drinking or sports/drinking buddies. My example which includes both quotes, was for twenty-something guys in general. You have some pretty strange ideas of what men talk about to each other.. Not sure how you know...Do you envision men, or "alpha" men as cartoon characters?
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 TrialByFire, I know there are men out there who have it all together, can walk into a room and pull a perfect 10 to come home with him...but they still choose a woman to marry and commit to. Unfortunately EXPERIENCES of hanging with such men and women who tried to catch such men taught me that those men aren't as high in number as many women want to believe. I've seen more guys who have great "game" want a life of just sexual flings and talk badly of dating and RLs...or believe they're not ready for it and they haven't met a woman worth marrying. Yeah, I used to post on Askmen, and I know of the negativity preached there, but my opinions stated have ALWAYS been based on my experiences watching both genders. I am not attacking women here and making them out to be shallow and flaky, but more just to hold up the mirror as to what I see happening. I see many women complain how they can't find a decent man, but yet they turn away loads of decent men because they don't come packaged the way they want them. Even worse are how many who have to get knocked up and abandoned before they come down to more realistic standards. I agree with you too that the "alphas" need to be prompted to spill their feelings. They've told me how they would love to get married, but feel like they wouldn't be able to be faithful because they like banging new women all the time...or they fear how the woman they pick will age and get ugly or fat. Yes this sounds shallow and such, but I simply am telling you what I hear. I think in the end for every woman who wants a decent good man, that they need to make sure they are LOOKING for that, and NOT HOPING to find that in a guy who doesn't show it from the get-go. The "hoping" is why I see so many women heartbroken and jaded. While you have some valid points, I think you're over-generalizing. I have yet to date an alphamale who wasn't interested in a relationship except when I stated I wasn't looking for one and specifically dated confirmed bachelors. Hell, I've been proposed to 5 times by alphas of which 3, I never even slept with. As for cheaters, they come in all kinds, whether they're alpha or not. If I were to generalize too, my observation is that non-alphas cheat more than alphas. My reasoning would be that the ones who do have more options are more likely to walk, if they're dissatisfied in relationships.
Rooster_DAR Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Smart, cute, kind but not a pushover, confident, empathetic, strong, emotionally available without being mushy, enjoys helping his gf out from time to time. Doesn't mind a girl who is emotional and even sad on occasion. I don't care about money or social status -- those are the essential traits for me. (I don't have any tolerance for laziness or lack of ambition, though.) They did exist, until the woman they committed to dragged them over a bed of nails and hot coals until they became bitter misogynists.
Rooster_DAR Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Most females want to be controlled and dominated, at least to some degree. You can't want to be dominated and yet complain about him being controlling. Somehow this statement rings true to a degree.
Jake Barnes Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Not in a meaningful way and not very often. They're more likely to open up to female friends than their drinking or sports/drinking buddies. My example which includes both quotes, was for twenty-something guys in general.Just this past June I had a long heart to heart with my cousin who was getting married and he was telling me I need to get my life together and that Im not getting any younger and don't I want a wife and children or do I want to be alone. And this guy was always a tough guy, not a sensitive clown like myself I remember back a few years ago when a friend of mine was in law school and he got his gf pregnant and he was wrestling whether he should marry her (there was never a question of keeping the baby...there are still some people where certain things are off limits and its understood). We would talk of it often and he eventually married her and they have two kids today. So yeah of course guys talk about it. Do most of us define ourselves by our relationships with the opposite sex like many women do..no...but its not like we're made of ice.
vonerik012 Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Well I looked up alpha male, and here is what I found... In adult social settings, alpha males again may be judged not so much by aggression, but by their ability to get the most attractive women as mates. This is the primary reason for alpha behavior in other animals. The alpha male in adult society is likely to be confident, attractive, and wealthy. Questions remain as to whether the alpha male can retain mates, since relationships often require ability to compromise, to discuss feelings and to be sensitive. Some alpha males have these characteristics typically thought of as beta, but many of them lack such traits. You can certainly point to prominent alpha males in our society who seem to have poor track records with women,either involving themselves in a succession of failed relationships or marrying one woman after another, with no marriage lasting for very long. Seems like what you are chasing after... A.. Just wants the hottest woman.. B. Suck at relationships... Good choice, lol.. Ahh.. But they tend to be wealthy... http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-alpha-male.htm
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