Thought I knew what I want

[joemax]

Thank you. Thank you Ronni and everyone else for your replies. I really do sincerely mean that.

 

I've been thinking a lot lately. I had a talk with her yesterday. I asked her that if anything ever happened between us if we would be okay, and she said it would take time but we would both survive. I just have a question: Is it possible for someone to be in a relationship with their "soul-mate" (ie. the person they're supposed to spend the rest of their lives with) and still miss being single and miss that feeling?

 

I don't know exactly what I want. And I don't feel like I'm being fair to her. And I wouldn't even know where to begin on what to tell her if we do break up.

[Ronni_W]

I had a talk with her yesterday. I asked her that if anything ever happened between us if we would be okay, and she said it would take time but we would both survive.

Hey, Joe.

It's okay to not know exactly what you do want. It is more than good enough to know what you do NOT want. And I'm pretty sure that you do know what you do NOT want, for this stage of your growth and development ~ is that right? That you do know what you don't want for your life, right now?

 

You have already told her about your imminent break-up, and she has already told you that she will survive. She also had enough insight and empathy (maturity, wisdom and kindness) to tell you that you will survive, too. She already gets everything, Joe.

 

So, all that remains is for you to catch up, as it were. Put aside thoughts of "soul mates" and other things that you've been using to support your fears and to limit your growth potential (self-sabotaging or self-defeating thoughts, that is. Put those aside, if you would.)

 

It is time for you to take a step toward adulthood, Joe. Time to be true to you, and treat yourself with integrity and fairness. I know it's scary but, like your soon-to-be-ex, I have every confidence in you that you will do just perfectly out there.

 

So, go. Jump...take your Leap of Faith. You will be fine. I deeply believe that. And your stbx knows that. You will be fine.

 

Wishing you an inspiring, fulfilling, happy and successful Journey.

[joemax]

We broke up. It just came out today. We were sitting down and I told her how I haven't been fair to her because I haven't been in the relationship as much as I would have liked. She said she'd been thinking of breaking up with me for the same reason. I told her how I hate when she lies to her parents. I told her how much is going on right now in my life, and for that reason, I couldn't be there for her as much as I want to be. I told her how I hate when she doesn't understand when I don't wana go downtown to hang out with her friends all the time. We agreed we'd been having lots of fights and arguments lately.

 

She cried, I cried. We talked. We cried for a long time. I drove her home. and we decided to talk in a couple of weeks to see how we feel. It feels like ****. More than ****. I don't know how to describe this. But we said we'll talk soon. So we'll see.

[nowhereman82]

Hate to be cut and dry here....but statistically at your age, a relationship doesn't last that long or is as fulfilling....because you are still finding yourself. You're an adult but not grown up...if that makes sense.

 

Your feelings are fine and it's great to love someone. But I'd say play the field at least a couple more years.

 

Your wants and needs will change a lot over the next several years and dating different type of women will help you realize what it is you truly want and will make it easier to choose the right mate to settle down with later.

 

*shrug* if someone told me the same thing when I was 18 though...I'd say they are crazy lol

 

Edit:

 

just read that you separated....sorry and happy for you at the same time. Do yourself a favor and read up on here about NC (no contact) it will make it easier on you and her until the feelings eb down some. Good luck!

[Ronni_W]

We broke up. She cried, I cried. We talked. We cried for a long time.

Hugs, Joe. Just hugs.

Let me know if you need more, and what you need more of.

Ronni

[joemax]

I don't know what to do now. Like, we're supposed to talk again in a couple of weeks to see how we feel. Maybe we'll get back together, maybe we won't. I don't know. What should I do now? Should I go out and date? Would that be wrong? Would it be considered cheating?

 

This is hell. She called me today and just hearing her voice almost made me...I don't know. It felt so weird, and good, and bad at the same time. It just doesn't feel good right now.

 

Once again, thanks so much for all your support.

[Ronni_W]

I don't know what to do now. ... It just doesn't feel good right now.

Hey, Joe.

Yeah, I know it's going to be a little a LOT difficult for you, for a while. But you had expected that, yes? There will be many internal conflicts about running back to the safety of what you know, versus finding the courage to explore new experiences and learn more about yourself.

 

I actually wouldn't recommend to start dating anytime soon. It has nothing to do with "cheating" or "not cheating". It's that it'll just be your ineffective attempt to avoid/ignore all the not-so-good feelings and thoughts that you're having.

 

Plus. Your purpose for breaking up is because you were feeling "caged" and wanting to experience more of life. Right now, just getting back into the dating scene will not at all be useful in helping you do what you said you wanted to do ~ be free to find out who you are and what else is out there.

 

Also, mentally and emotionally, you are not ready to date...your inner resources would be best spent on yourself instead of bringing someone else (or many others) into the mix that likely already feels like inner turmoil/chaos. There's no good reason to add to that.

 

It's a challenging time for you that, if you really are committed to your personal growth and development, you need to 'man up' to. You're being called upon, by your own Inner Voice, to just suck it up, acknowledge and work through your difficult emotions, and get on with doing what you said you want to do...take a big step toward greater self-awareness and building your successful and happy future.

 

There isn't one specific "path"...many roads will take you where you want to be. Possibly this link can give you some ideas of what you want to self-reflect on first. (Scroll down to the "Adults' Tool Box" section.)

http://www.coping.org/

 

Or you can simply pick something that you think you may want to learn more about (photography, tennis, developing a website), and take a workshop or enroll in a class to explore it further. You don't have to already KNOW that you'll like it...it's more than good enough to just THINK that you may like it, and to follow that thought.

 

I do know...I have a very strong sense, that you will be fine, Joe. It MAY take a bit of time to find your new stride and rhythm but, once you do, my best intuition is saying that you are going to enjoy your 'journey' and really appreciate the 'you' that you'll discover along the way.

 

Again, hugs and all good wishes.

Ronni

 

EDIT: If you guys can go NC for the two weeks, it may be that much easier on your Hearts (in one way. In another way, it may suck a bit more, but maybe that's just another thing you'll have to "suck up".) I'd suggest that you try it just because the distance could be really helpful in the long run.

[joemax]

Thanks again Ronni.

 

We saw each other Wednesday for a bit. We talked, we both know we wana get back together eventually. But I don't know. I guess I'm somewhat enjoying the single life. But whenever I think of her, it sucks bad. I wana be with her, but at the same time, I wana be single! IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

 

She told me she wants to wait for me. She told me she'll never love anyone as much as me. She told me she's not moving on until there's no hope. She said she wants to be happy with me. She said she'll wait for me just as long as I know that I still want her. She also said what hurts her so much is that people tell her we have the love that people look for their entire lives.

 

I really wish she could wait for me, but also realise that I am a total jerk to even be thinking she could do that for me. I also don't want her to move on and find someone else.

 

I confuse myself so much, so I can't even start to imagine what you guys are thinking. But thanks anyway.

[Grrlish]

We broke up. It just came out today. We were sitting down and I told her how I haven't been fair to her because I haven't been in the relationship as much as I would have liked. She said she'd been thinking of breaking up with me for the same reason. I told her how I hate when she lies to her parents. I told her how much is going on right now in my life, and for that reason, I couldn't be there for her as much as I want to be. I told her how I hate when she doesn't understand when I don't wana go downtown to hang out with her friends all the time. We agreed we'd been having lots of fights and arguments lately.

 

She cried, I cried. We talked. We cried for a long time. I drove her home. and we decided to talk in a couple of weeks to see how we feel. It feels like ****. More than ****. I don't know how to describe this. But we said we'll talk soon. So we'll see.

 

Joe, I read most of this thread. I am sorry for the struggle that both of you have been going through.

 

It seems that the two of you did the right thing, considering that both of you were leaning toward breaking things off.

 

It sounds like first true love. Such a wonderful time and such a difficult time when it ends.

 

You'll make it through, and so will she.

 

Please, try to do one thing here. Don't do the back and forth two-step with her. It will hurt her. It will hurt you. It will probably damage your memories of each other and the time that you spent together.

 

Also, if there is a chance that you two will go out, experience 'life' a bit more, and possibly come back together, going back and forth could ruin that possibility.

 

I'm not saying that you two will come back together, Joe. Anything can happen, although it is more likely that you two will part and grow further apart, and move on.

 

Love her and love the relationship for what it has been.

 

Someone above said that it has nothing to do with age. I don't agree but take that person's words, soften them a bit, and take them to heart. You do not want to become what they described, and it doesn't sound like you will.

 

I hope that you were clear that the two of you are breaking up, which means that you are not 'waiting' for her - although hopefully you did not say it just like that. All you can do is be clear, not get her hopes up, and encourage her to move on. If you two are meant to be, you will come back together.

 

You have to be a stand-up guy, Joe. Bad habits start early. You don't want to be 'that guy'.

 

Best,

 

Grrlish

[Ronni_W]

I wana be with her, but at the same time, I wana be single! IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

Hey, Joe.

Yeah, OF COURSE it makes sense...this is that inner turmoil we were talking about before. It not only makes sense, it was expected, yes? So, no need to feel all panicked or like you're going insane or anything like that. You are feeling the normal and natural tensions that are part and parcel of wanting two, opposing things.

 

Not unlike, "I can seriously see myself in this here red Ferrari....but, boy, that black Lambourghini over there sure looks mighty fine, too!"

These kinds of decisions are just things that we will face in our lifetime. Over and over again. And there will be good and bad in what we chose, and also good and bad in what we didn't choose. Compromise is inherent in every single choice.

 

You are not being a "jerk" just for wanting it both ways...that again is a very natural desire. It would only be "jerk-ish" if your tried to manipulate or control her so that she does end up limiting herself and/or sacrificing her own life just waiting for you.

You are NOT acting like a jerk, in this situation. You are just recognizing and expressing (here) your ideal situation and self-focused desires. As long as you don't share those with her, it is fine and natural.

 

She is consciously and willingly choosing to do whatever she is doing. SHE is responsible for that, and for the positive and negative outcomes that her actions will bring into her life.

 

I get that you are feeling confused. And it's totally okay to feel confused. Like I said, the confusion is from having to compromise -- you can see both the good and the bad in both your choices -- who would NOT be confused?

 

The only way I know to not end up regretting what we ultimately do choose, is to follow our own hearts and intuitions about the important decisions.

Because, truly, your 'Inner Voice', or 'Gut Instinct', or 'Higher Self', or whatever you call 'it/him' really does know what you really ought to be doing for your own growth and development, at any particular stage of life.

 

Listen to your Voice, and be courageous when you hear it/him. That's really all I can offer you, to do.

Sending hugs and good stuff.

[Ronni_W]

We saw each other Wednesday for a bit. We talked, ... I confuse myself so much,

Joe, I forgot to suggest in my earlier post, to increase your period of NC -- try for at least 4 weeks...longer if you feel it is at all doable. Whatever period you do choose, of course just stay strong and do not break NC for ANY reason.

It will help, I think, to create the needed space for your 'top-level' confusion to dissipate. There will still be, er, 'lower-level' inner conflict, but being in 'no contact' mode will give you the time and space to process your confusion, and learn how to handle these types of feelings faster and more effectively, in the future.

[joemax]

Thank you once again to you both.

 

I'm trying really hard to keep the NC going for a good period of time. Do you think there is any chance that we would end up together after we both grow up a bit and sort our lives out? Do you think there's any chance of that happening? Or will the pain be too much for her and it will outweight the love she has/had for me?

 

When I saw her the other day, she made everything bad go away. I was having such a **** week and then I saw her and everything was good again. We kissed, which I realise is really idiotic of me, but it felt so right, which brings up more questions in my mind. Am I doing the right thing? I'd like to think that I am, but life is about making mistakes and learning, right? I just hope this isn't one of those mistakes that you never get over. That you always have at the back of your mind, no matter how old you get.

 

Once again, I thank you all for your input. You don't know how much you've helped me through all this. I hope to be strong enough to keep the NC. I know it'll do us both some good. But she keeps asking me how long it's gona take me to "figure out all my ****", and it's putting me under some pressure. But I can't really blame her, I did initiate this. It's just really hard to know that she's suffering, and I dont think she knows how much I'm suffering too.

[Ronni_W]

she keeps asking me how long it's gona take me to "figure out all my ****", and it's putting me under some pressure.

Joe, it's not about "blaming" her or NOT blaming her. It is about YOU taking responsibility for your own needs, and expressing your needs and feelings in a kind, loving way. "Sue, it really doesn't help matters when you ask me that. I don't know. I will appreciate it if you don't ask me again, as it just puts unnecessary pressure on me. I know to tell you as soon as I have it figured out. Believe me, I know to do that."

 

It's about you learning self-responsibility and positive self-expression.

 

Yes, there is a chance that you will end up back together. And yes, there is a chance that you won't. It doesn't have to do with pain (or pleasure) "outweighing" anything. It just is that life happens.

 

Are you sure that you are using this time as wisely as possible, to just dwell on that, and keep wondering if you've done the right thing?

Might I suggest that you just start living from an assumption that you DID do the right thing for yourself, for this phase of your life. Just assume it was the right decision, and start every day, approach every experience from that perspective. Tell yourself that there IS a Lesson in your suffering, and be determined to find out what your lesson is. Sort of, "Well, I know I made the right decision, so what are these feelings (what is this experience) trying to teach me? Wot the heck am I supposed to be learning, here?"

 

But. What is your suffering about? That is, what types of thoughts are causing the worst pain?

And. Are you questioning your decision BECAUSE of the painful feelings?

 

Hugs.

[joemax]

The worst pain is that I wana be with her, I just don't think that I can right now. And the fact that I think she's the right one for me, and it scares me so much to even think about losing her. She's also probably the only girl that can make me laugh, but our lives got too...boring almost. I don't know. Like I said, I really think she's the kind of girl I could end up with. She understands me, supports me. I just don't believe the time is right right now. The thoughts that cause the worst pain are also when I think that she might hook up with another guy or whatever, that just kills me. I try to avoid thinking about that, but I do. And I love being with her, I just don't think I can right now. I'd rather this happens between us now than in the future, when I believe the relationship will be stronger and being apart will be harder.

 

I am questioning my decision yes because of the feelings, but also, because like anyone else, I want what is good for her and for me. I am questioning my decision because I have one life, because I am a romantic, and because I don't understand why I want both worlds. Like I mentioned earlier on in this thread, I grew up wanting one girl to love and to make happy, to be there for her when she cried, etc etc. And it happened, but then I found myself wondering if I would be happier as a single man. And I don't know yet. I don't know if I ever will.

 

I guess I'm just being repetitive here, and I apologize for that. I just don't know. I don't know how many times I've said those words in this thread. But I'm clueless. I guess what I do know is how great she is. And If I saw her with someone else, it would kill me. Things, like I said before, just got too boring almost. It was always the same routine, and I guess I needed an infusion of something else in my life.

 

Once again, Thank you so much.

[Ronni_W]

Joe,

When I decided to end my marriage, I questioned it for two (2) years...24 months! Give or take a month or two. I'd been married 8 years, and we'd been together a total of 13.

[edit] But I did NOT allow my doubts to be active in my brain every single minute of all my waking hours. That would have been insane, for me to allow that! That would have been me going from dysfunctional, to totally NON-functional. [/edit]

 

So...I do understand that tendency to question our decisions about ending significant relationships.

But I ALSO know that there is definitely and unquestionably a part of you that 100% knows if your decision was right or wrong for you.

 

The problem is, I'm going to suggest, that you are NOT taking the time to act like a mature, responsible person long enough to hear what that part of you wants to say. You are choosing to just stay in "frantic and dramatic" mode, instead. It IS a choice.

 

Which. It's fine to allow your mind to act like that...for about 5 or 15 minutes a day. NOT 24/7/365, as it appears you have been doing. It's NOT cool to let doubts and indecision rule your mind.

That doesn't help you to think or feel anything positive and/or inspirational. You are keeping your own self stuck in this quagmire of crappy emotions by choosing to focus on the types of thoughts you are choosing to focus on. YOU need to rule your own mind...YOU need to manage your own thoughts.

 

It is YOU driving yourself into a state of 'panic and doom'. STOP DOING THAT. Start learning how to quieten your mind so that you can hear your own 'Inner Wisdom'. It's not about frantically asking, "What if I effed up yesterday?"

It's about calmly asking, "What shall I do, today; what do I need to do next?" And after you ask those questions, shut the eff up and listen for your answer. It will come. Definitely and unquestionably, it will come...but your quiet mind and open ears need to be available for you to hear it.

 

Hugs and good luck with this -- it's challenging cos it's about retraining your (ineffective, non-productive) habitual way of thinking about this. But you CAN reprogram how you think, and you MUST do it...for yourself. You start by just making the decision to do it.

[joemax]

Thanks for your reply Ronni, and I know what you mean. And I've been trying really hard to forget about it all. I've been trying to go out and enjoy myself, meet people, talk to people etc...It's hard yeah, but I'm trying.

 

Can I ask you something a bit personal? If you don't feel like answering the question, I completely understand. Why did you decide to end your marriage, and do you feel you've made the right decision?

 

It's just...I don't know if I see her more as a friend or a girlfriend. I don't feel like cuddling with my friend, but I loved cuddling with her. I don't feel like sharing EVERYTHING about my life with my friends, but she knew everything about me. I'm just trying to draw that line. The line between a best friend and a girlfriend. The line between liking someone a lot and loving them. They say you'll know when you're in love, it's so hard to tell. Maybe I'm just too young still.

[Ronni_W]

You don't need to "forget about" your current feelings or your past relationship. You just need to focus MUCH MORE on the future and the things that leave you feeling positive and good about yourself. Doubts and confusion don't do that, and just being all panicked and dramatic doesn't do that.

 

Also. Focusing on how you feel about her doesn't do that. Just stay focused on how you feel about you; how you feel about what you're doing with and in THE REST OF your life. Your personal, unique, individual life...the life where ONLY you exist. Focus on that.

 

You do NOT have to decide today, this week or even this year, if you do or do not love her. You are putting pressure on yourself, about that. We already talked about how to be assertive and stop letting her put pressure on you, about that. So...at this point it is ALL on you, no matter what she is doing or saying. You do NOT have to decide today, this week or even this year.

Can I ask you something a bit personal? If you don't feel like answering the question, I completely understand. Why did you decide to end your marriage, and do you feel you've made the right decision?

I don't mind answering you, at all.

When I left, I actually felt more like you did when you broke-up -- I didn't have too many words for what I was going through. Mostly just feelings and instincts, at that time.

 

And, like you, the whole experience was extremely hard on me, as I already mentioned. I felt traumatized, even though I had made the decision by myself, for myself. It was honestly the worst period of my life. Including when my dad died. Maybe cos I was fully responsible for my separation/divorce. My ex was crushed, an emotional mess...at least, that is how he came across to others. But of course, that didn't help at all, for me to feel better about my decision.

 

What kept me from going back to him was that I *knew*, somewhere in the recesses of my mind, heart or soul, that it was the absolute, 100% correct decision for me. Well, it was more of a 'sense' of it, than any rational knowledge. (That's why I said that you have a part like that, too -- a part that *knows* if it really is in your best interest or not, to stay apart. If you allow yourself the time, space and quiet, you will have a sense of it, too. You will sense/know what to do.)

 

I didn't have words, or logic, or anything concrete to go by, that it was the right choice for me. I just *felt* that it was, and so I just had to make the choice to tough out my indecision and guilt and whatever. That's what it felt like...just tough it out by holding positive thoughts and images of a really great future. Some days I had to remind myself to breathe, but it was always about the future, not the past. (If that makes sense?)

 

Yes. It WAS the right decision for me. When I left, it was because I didn't have any hope of being truly happy and fulfilled in that relationship...the relationship that we both had developed was no longer fully supportive and encouraging for me. It was my sense of the loss of hope, that motivated me.

At this point, I know that was true. My sense of that was accurate. I can also now say that, in the specific dynamics that I had created with him, there wasn't any space for me to grow and develop as an individual. I had gone as far as I could go, with him. It's not anyone's "fault", just that our relationship had its limits of what it could do for me as an individual (and for him, I am sure.) When I hit my limit, I wasn't prepared to accept that limitation for myself; wasn't prepared to just live the rest of my life without hope of mental, emotional and spiritual expansion. (At the time, I didn't have these words, though.) But. It was a choice. And I chose what I chose, based on my 'felt sense' -- I followed that 'inner voice' or 'inner sense' or whatever you'd call it, and it DID turn out to be accurate. I was right to trust it.

 

Not sure if that is more or less than you were hoping for -- feel free to ask any follow-up questions .

 

ADD: Just thought of something -- when I was making MY decision, and struggling to stick to it, I did not also take into account what may or may not have been "good" for him. It was NOT my responsibility or obligation, to think about HIM at that time. It was a decision that I had to take for me, and me alone. Not him, and not our families and friends.

[joemax]

Yes, I really am trying to put all my energy into everything that's positive right now. I'm trying really hard, I promise. Do you think I should date other girls, or not yet? Do you think that'd help? Maybe I need a wild streak or something.

 

I hope that I will ultimately know what to do, just like you're saying. I can't imagine what it must have been like for you, after all this time. Thank you so much for sharing though, it really did open my eyes. Especially the last part of doing what was best for YOU, and noone else.

 

It's just really hard. I'm trying though. Do you know when you're in love? Can you tell? Or can you be in love but still be blinded by other things? 'Cause, all my friends and hers are saying we're perfect together. But I don't know. I know, I know, I shouldn't listen to anyone but myself. And I'm not gona let anyone or anything influence my decision but me, but I have missed her terribly these last couple of days. It seems she was the only thing that was good in my life. Maybe that's what love is.

 

Maybe this is good for us though. She takes some time to focus on herself. I take some time to do just that and understand what it is I really want, hopefully my inner sense will appear and tell me what I want. Cause I don't know what I want.

 

If you don't mind mind me asking, have you found someone else since your divorce?

 

Once again, you have no idea how much I appreciate you putting up with me thus far!

[Ronni_W]

PS: Sorry -- my posts often take on a life of their own, and end up really long! . As always, I do hope you find something worthwhile, though.

----

Once again, you have no idea how much I appreciate you putting up with me thus far!

 

I don't feel like I'm doing that at all, Joe. You are 100% worthy of people's time, consideration and kindness. Well, in my opinion and based on your posts, you are genuine and sincere, which makes you worthy of being treated well. So there's really nothing for me to have to "put up with" about you -- it just feels that we are "relating with" each other.

…to put all my energy into everything that's positive right now. I'm trying really hard, I promise.

 

Yes, I can tell that. But you don't need to promise it to me -- you don't owe it to me, I mean.

 

The thing that I think, about you dating other people, is that it sounds like maybe you are looking for distractions and diversions. Could that be right? Sometimes that does help. And other times it just adds to one's confusion.

So...yeah. Maybe you should go on at least one, and see how your mind and heart respond. Maybe it will help you see or feel something different that can help you decide. What do you think?

 

The only caution would be that when we get into rebound relationships, there is a high chance of us hurting the new partner. So, maybe it's not a good idea to get too serious with one person, too soon.

 

BUT. My rebound relationship has worked out really, really well. So, one just never knows. (When I got into it, I knew what it was, and I knew that it wasn't necessarily fair to the new guy. But it made me feel good, so I threw the aforementioned-caution to the wind. The reason that it has worked, though, I really believe, is that I ALSO did my grieving/healing work -- divorce support group, individual therapy. You name it, I did it. EVEN THOUGH I was also in a new relationship, and independent of that relationship. Fortunately my b/f was/is understanding and patient, cos I did need a lot of time away from the relationship. Plus. We did half-assed break-up about 3 years into the relationship. Off-and-on for maybe 6 or 8 months.)

 

I can't imagine what it must have been like for you, after all this time. Thank you so much for sharing though, it really did open my eyes. Especially the last part of doing what was best for YOU, and noone else.

 

(No prob. It's therapeutic for me when I look at it, and have to put words to it. Sometimes new words come, and sometimes it's words I've used before. But it's always interesting to find out how I feel about it in the moment.)

 

That last part was the hardest to do, actually. Cos it feels "selfish" and "unappreciative" and such -- my guess is that you feel like that too, sometimes(?) I didn't know it prior, but apparently others saw us as the 'poster couple' for Happy Marriage. (I think maybe like you guys are, for Happy Relationship?) So everyone was duly shocked and thought I must have gone insane. And, sometimes it felt like that to me, too. Cos my ex was/is a super-nice guy.

 

So, I can relate somewhat to what you're going through -- feeling unsure, disconnected, not anchored, guilty, ungrateful, and just...not knowing. It's NOT a good thing to experience but, for me, I 'sensed' that there was a POSITIVE reason that I was going through it. So, that's what kept me going forward, in search of my positive reason.

Or maybe I just DECIDED that something positive HAD to be at the end of it cos it felt so crappy? Sort of, "There is NO WAY my god would need me to suffer like this for absolutely NO good reason!" Maybe I just got stubborn and hard-assed about it?

 

Do you know when you're in love? Can you tell? Or can you be in love but still be blinded by other things?

 

Maybe that depends on one's definition of "in love"? For me, "in love" is an umbrella term for a whole bunch of other feelings that one is both receiving and giving: Respect, admiration, support, encouragement, acceptance, empathy, forgiveness, etc. I think when you have/feel it, you do know.

 

Or maybe, for you, that's not anything you need to have a worry about, right now? Thinking back to your original posts, maybe this is about you getting to know 'you' and learning to love YOURSELF -- being able to give those types of feelings/qualities to 'you'?

I kind of think that if we can't fully love our Self, then it is really hard to fully give and receive it to/from others.

 

As you say, it's not for others to influence your decisions, nor can they determine for you what this phase/Lesson is all about. It's extremely personal, based on your own feelings and intuitions. The only thing I can assure you of, is that there IS a Lesson here, for you.

 

If you had to guess, what would you guess that it might be? (YOUR Lesson, that is.) What would your FIRST guess be? Often that is the absolute right answer that is coming from your 'Inner Voice'.

 

It seems she was the only thing that was good in my life. Maybe that's what love is.

 

Nah. Like I said, for me, "love" is when YOU are the best thing in your own life, and other people, objects and events can (and do) ADD to your pleasure and enjoyment. "Love" allows a 'special one' to contribute to your happiness and success. But when we are making someone else responsible for our happiness, meaning, purpose and success, that is dependent/needy, which is more the dysfunctional side of "love". Kind of 'anti-love', IMHO.

 

Sending hugs and all good stuff.

 

ADD: Another thing came to mind: At the time, it wasn't always that I knew what I WANTED...a lot of it was that I more knew what I did NOT want. But it kind of turns out to be one and the same, in the end. So, it's okay to just choose based on what you already know you definitely DON'T want. Except...don't do that just based on your current crappy feelings (cos, of course, you DON'T WANT those.) But the crappy feelings are actually just trying to help you get to your DEEPER understanding of what you really DO want. You just have to tough them out, if you ever want to get to the bottom of your deepest needs and desires.

[simon0707]

sorry to hear that

[joemax]

PS: Sorry -- my posts often take on a life of their own, and end up really long! . As always, I do hope you find something worthwhile, though.

Don't even say that. I've read everything you've said and it really helps me to know that someone does know what I'm going through. It really gives me hope.

 

 

Maybe you should go on at least one, and see how your mind and heart respond. Maybe it will help you see or feel something different that can help you decide. What do you think?

 

I don't know. Maybe this is what I want deep down? Maybe I broke up with this wonderful girl because, the immature idiot that I am, I want to see what else is out there or something like that? I honestly do not know. Some people might attack me and say:" You idiot! You've pushing the only girl you've ever loved away!". But that was not my intention when I made this decision. I made the decision because I felt I was being unfair to her, and I'd rather break up with her and try to get myself figured out instead of something else, worse happening. (ie cheating, big fight)

 

 

I kind of think that if we can't fully love our Self, then it is really hard to fully give and receive it to/from others.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I think that might be part of the problem. I'm not completely happy with where I am in life right now.

 

 

If you had to guess, what would you guess that it might be? (YOUR Lesson, that is.) What would your FIRST guess be? Often that is the absolute right answer that is coming from your 'Inner Voice'.

If I had to guess? Damn, I really don't know. Maybe I'm trying to punish myself in a way. I don't know. Before we started going out, I had another girl that I really liked a lot, but she broke up with me after a month of being together. I was also shattered. But it made me stronger, And almost a year later, I met my last girlfriend and we started going out. Maybe I just had to get a girlfriend, because it was what I wanted since I can remember. Maybe I just fell for her becasue I felt I had to. Is that possible? That she was one of the first girls to reciprocate the feelings I had (infatuation, wanting to be together, wanting to talk to each other), so it was almost as if I needed to love her? I don't think that's possibleMight that be it? It wouldn't make sense to me though, because I still love her.

 

I guess it's all gona take time. Once again Ronni, thank you so much!

[Ronni_W]

I made the decision because I felt I was being unfair to her, and I'd rather break up with her and try to get myself figured out instead of something else, worse happening. (ie cheating, big fight)

 

Joe, the most dangerous thing is gonna be if you start telling yourself BS about it...and even worse, if you start believing your own BS .

What you said, at the beginning, was that YOU were feeling "caged" in the relationship. That is, you broke up with her because you were feeling limited, unable to expand, wanting to explore beyond the "cage".

 

That is a MORE than good enough reason. There's no need to confuse things even more, by now trying to pretend that you broke up FOR HER. You broke up for you. It was a decision that you hoped would lead to YOUR greater maturity (so it really wasn't an 'immature' decision, at all.)

 

You are NOT an "idiot", no matter how many other people may think or say that. You aren't "pushing away" someone. You are INVITING your future. (Turn your perspective around -- instead of looking back, look forward.)

 

I think that might be part of the problem. I'm not completely happy with where I am in life right now.

 

And you weren't when you broke up. You broke up for a REASON, which was related to the way you were feeling about yourself and the direction in which your life was headed.

 

Maybe I'm trying to punish myself in a way. ... Maybe I just had to get a girlfriend, ... Maybe I just fell for her becasue I felt I had to. Is that possible? That she was one of the first girls to reciprocate the feelings I had...so it was almost as if I needed to love her?

 

Yep. I think that is possible! It makes sense that, at the time, you could have been more "in love" with the idea of having a girlfriend and saying that you are in love. But. Instead of finding "in love", you just found "needy and dependent" -- you became needy (as you said) and dependent on her/the relationship. It does make sense, based on everything you are feeling, as a real possibility. So. I think your intuition is guiding you in a good direction, about that. And it likely needs you to ask yourself: Do you really need to be "punishing" yourself at all? And. Do you want to stay just needy and dependent on someone else being "in love" with you? (If you had to guess, what would you answer?)

 

And. Of course, after you started dating and got to know her, you do love her. But maybe, at this point, it isn't the same as that "in love" that you were hoping for? I think that's what your feelings may be trying to tell you (the feelings that inspired you to break-up in the first place) -- that, in this relationship, you did NOT have want you really want; that those feelings of "in love" that you want, weren't there at the depth and intensity that you want. Possibly you are being guided to go out and find the "in love" that your heart really, truly, deeply desires to experience?

 

If you thought you knew for sure, what would you say, about that?

 

If you allowed yourself to stop feeling guilty or ashamed, and in need of "punishment"...your truth is just behind those types of thoughts and feelings. The latter will obscure your answers because of their nature.

 

Suggestion: From now on, start saying, "I'm looking for the answer" instead of, "I don't know." (If you want to promise that you will do that, I'll be totally cool with it .)

Cos when you just keep saying, "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know," you are actually just inviting more confusion into your life. But when you start saying, "I'm looking for my answer, I think this could be an answer, I'm gonna guess an answer," you are opening up your mind and heart to clarity and solutions. Try it for a couple of weeks, and see how well it'll work for you.

[Ronni_W]

I'm not completely happy with where I am in life right now.

*If* you HAD to guess, what would you guess would make you a little bit happier, right now? Not 100% happier, maybe just 10 or 20% happier?

[electric_sheep]

Seeing her cry kills me. Seriously, it makes me die inside. I know I'm reiterating everything, but I don't know what to do. I feel almost exactly the same way as your ex Narf. I think she's the kind of girl I would ultimately marry, but right now I'm 20, and I just feel like this is when I should be experimenting and learning and ****ing up.

 

Don't they say you only have one love in life? What If I break up with her and never love again?

 

You may grow resentful one day of this kind of thing. It's great to honestly share your emotions, but believe me, she wouldn't be the first person to overtly display them for the purposes of manipulation.

 

2 things to understand here:

 

1) Instead of thinking about how she feels, think about how YOU feel about the relationship? Do you want this other person in your life, and if so, why? Is it just because you are lonely and want affection, or do you truly value them as a person? Is it because you just like being with someone, or is she truly special?

 

2) Needs and wants will be with you for the rest of your life, in all likelihood, but do you want them to dictate your behavior? It's better if your behavior is based on your personally defined values and goals, not on "needs" or "cravings" (the Buddha knew this, as did Jesus). Action based on perceived "needs" and "cravings" leads to short term gratification (and in some cases addiction). Action based on values leads to long term satisfaction and a rich and meaningful life.

 

Now, these values could be something like "to grow in love with another person", or they could be to "gain relationship experience". There is nothing wrong with either value. Conservatives usually push the former, and liberals push the latter, but honestly it's a personal choice. I would advice you to go off and think about these things. If you decide the second value is more important, then maybe you should break up with her. If you decide the first value is more important, then you need to answer question #1. Could she be the one? If so, maybe you should stick it out and see.

[joemax]

Do you want to stay just needy and dependent on someone else being "in love" with you? (If you had to guess, what would you answer?)

 

You man to say that she's needy and dependent on me? I really don't think she is. She's a very strong person, she's been through a lot. Yeah, she's in incredible pain right now, but she's said it to me before that she will eventually be "allright". And I don't think that I'm needy or clingy either. Certainly not clingy. Needy? Well, I do believe that I need her in my life (doesn't someone in love need the person he's in love with?), but I'm fighting hard to move on, so to speak, and focus on today and not yesterday.

 

 

 

If you thought you knew for sure, what would you say, about that?

 

It could be that my heart is guiding me to find the "in love". I don't know. I mean...I'm looking for the answer . I'm still trying to figure out what it is I'm supposed to be learning out of this. Hopefully that lesson's gona come sooner rather than later.

 

 

*If* you HAD to guess, what would you guess would make you a little bit happier, right now? Not 100% happier, maybe just 10 or 20% happier?

 

If I had a better job, if I was in school...

 

 

 

Joe, the most dangerous thing is gonna be if you start telling yourself BS about it...and even worse, if you start believing your own BS .

What you said, at the beginning, was that YOU were feeling "caged" in the relationship. That is, you broke up with her because you were feeling limited, unable to expand, wanting to explore beyond the "cage".

 

But that's the way I feel. Yeah, obviously I did it for me, I am not denying that. But in the past couple of months we were together, she was talking, and I just wasn't there. I just didn't feel like i was commited to the relationship the way I should have been.

 

 

Once again Ronni, thank you!