confusedinkansas Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 My husband & I have been separated for almost 6 months (married 28 years this weekend) - We have given counseling a shot for about 3 months. We married very very young & now that we both have our independence (of sorts) I'm wondering if it really is possible to reconcile. Has anyone out there had any success? I moved out because of his drinking. (along with the drinking came lying) The drinking still is an everyday occurrance. While he doesn't get as drunk on a daily basis as he did when I was still living with him - he still is in the bars every single day. I have an issue with this - YET I feel as if it's asking too much for him to not go. He claims it's how he unwinds after a long day & that since I'm not done working when he is so what else is he to do with a few hours at the end of the day. I am torn. I believe in family (both of our children are grown) & I believe in marriage - I just don't know if I have it in me to go back to the lifestyle that I left 6 months ago. And I am not sure that I even still love him. Once there is as much muddy water under the bridge - How can one get over the past hurts & say "Ok let's give it a go again"?
Owl Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 My husband & I have been separated for almost 6 months (married 28 years this weekend) - We have given counseling a shot for about 3 months. We married very very young & now that we both have our independence (of sorts) I'm wondering if it really is possible to reconcile. Has anyone out there had any success? I moved out because of his drinking. (along with the drinking came lying) The drinking still is an everyday occurrance. While he doesn't get as drunk on a daily basis as he did when I was still living with him - he still is in the bars every single day. I have an issue with this - YET I feel as if it's asking too much for him to not go. He claims it's how he unwinds after a long day & that since I'm not done working when he is so what else is he to do with a few hours at the end of the day. I am torn. I believe in family (both of our children are grown) & I believe in marriage - I just don't know if I have it in me to go back to the lifestyle that I left 6 months ago. And I am not sure that I even still love him. Once there is as much muddy water under the bridge - How can one get over the past hurts & say "Ok let's give it a go again"? You give it a go again when he's ended the destructive behavior that led you to seperating in the first place. If he's still drinking, then you don't give it a go. You're not being unreasonable. What he's doing is destructive behavior, and you know it. You'd be a fool to accept it...clearly you're not. Drinking EVERY DAY is a clear sign of an active alchoholic. You cannot have a happy marriage with an active alchoholic. I suggest you escalate your requirements...either he get treatment and get the drinking under control, or file for divorce. It really IS that simple and point blank.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 13, 2008 Author Posted August 13, 2008 I know what you say is true - & in my head it all makes sense. It's my heart that is giving me troubles. One day I think I want to stay separated - the next I want to work on things. It really is a vicious circle at this point. 28 years to share with someone is a very long time. We pratically grew up together. I know it's all about his behaviors ~~ & as soon as I realize that his behaviors are distructive & not normal (he claims it's quite normal for a man to stop by the bar after work & sometimes twice in a day) I am trying now, with counseling - to be rational about this & not let my emotions run away with me. We still see each other every weekend & spend time once or twice thru-out the week. It's a very difficult place to be in. For me, the fear of growing old alone, being financially independend, & the sense of family - All great & very real fears.
Owl Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 I believe you. So get a support system in place that doesn't rely on your husband. Family being the most valuable resource. Have them in place to help you while you deal with this. INSIST that your H go to alanon or AA...and INSIST to him that its not normal, nor will you accept it any longer. Point blank...no marriage counselor worth their shingle will try to help the two of you any further until his UNTREATED ADDICTION is dealt with. Until that problem is truly being addressed...there's nothing that any professional can do to help you...other than a lawyer helping with the divorce. I'm sorry to be so blunt...but that's the bottom line.
TrustInYourself Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 Does he recognize the problem or does he make excuses for his behavior? Owl is right on point!
2sunny Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 the fact that he knows clearly that you wish to eliminate his bad habit of the bar visits and chooses not to eliminate them shows what his priority is. the alcohol takes precedence and priority over you. if you want to try to compete with alcohol - that is your choice - be prepared to lose every time.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 14, 2008 Author Posted August 14, 2008 WOW - I know you are all right. I think my love for him & the fact that I know he is much smarter than this - is what keeps me plugging away & trying to make him see that what he is doing isn't healthy. Thank you for your insite & for being blunt. Someone such as myself, needs that kind of shaking up for situations like this.
2sunny Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 being an alcoholic has absolutely nothing to do with how smart he may or may not be. he has a disease - an illness - that is very active. only he can help himself to put the disease into remission. it is hard work and he will need to be extremely motivated to do the hard work necessary to get and to stay sober. plugging away and trying to make him see his problem isn't likely to make it different. i speak from experience - as an alcoholic. what you can do is to take care of YOU and your best interest.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 I agree that competing with alcohol I won't win.......but it's also the whole BAR SCENE that I can't compete with. Because of trust issues in the past, when we do spend time together I peek at his cell phone (yes we are separated - so what I find shouldn't affect me) - Anyway, Everytime there is a new waitress at the bar that he frequents - That girl's phone number is inevidably in his cell phone & he does text these "girls". He claims they are just his "FRIENDS" (btw: our daughter works at this bar as well - in my opinion they are HER friends, not his) What he says to them in the phone calls or texts...I don't know - But I think it's inappropriate behavior for a man that 1) is 48 years old to be - befrending girls in their mid 20's when he is married & 2) and inappropriate if you say you love your wife & want to make things work. SO....guess the long & short of all of this is that Not only has the alcohol taken over - so has the addiction to be around these young girls several times a day - I'm sure they stroke his ego WAY better than I ever could. I don't know that I could go back always worrying whether there is a NEW GIRL in the phone book again. Would I always be peeking at the cell & wondering..................probably so. We did have a great weekend together (it was our 28th anniversary) HELP! I have 2 weeks to decide if I'm going to re-new my lease & we have together decided to quit counseling.
Owl Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Why did you quit counseling if there are still such HUGE issues going on? Personally, I can't tell you whether or not you renew your lease. It all depends on whether or not you're going to insist on changes or not. If you're not going to hold him to what you know you need. I would in no way reconcile with him if he's still sticking to this behavior. I would set a hard firm BOUNDARY about drinking, the "bar scene", and proper interaction with others in general (no way should he have some waitress's number in his phone!!!!!) Either he's married or he's not. He's trying to be single, but have a wife on the side. Are YOU willing to play that game?
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 I agree "no way should he have some waitresses' phone number in his phonebook He does have it pretty good.... He can go to the bars & carouse around if he wishes & then on the weekends - If he wants his wife around, all he has to do is call for a "date night". It is a sad scenario..for me - but perfect for him........this is what's been happening for the last 4 months of the separation. I was asked in a session a month back "What would it take for me to go home." I said, for him to not be in the bars every night (btw: - every night consists of happy hour - he's home around 5 - which means the drinking starts anywhere from 2:00 in the afternoon on) I would say it's ok for him to only go maybe, 2 nights a week. His answer was "If you put that stipulation on me, I will go anyway & lie to you about it"......I should have bailed right then & there. But, he has played mind games with me thru the years & so I thought "maybe I am being unreasonable". Reality - I am not being unreasonable. What he does is unacceptable. The letting go is hard, because we do both still love each other. The love just doesn't run deep enough to overcome this particular issue. We are quitting counseling because we are at an impass on this. We have made some progress in our communication - - but we cannot get past THIS issue.
Owl Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 That makes sense...what DOESN'T make sense is that the counselor wouldn't ID his behavior as alchoholic, and identify that as the primary source of trouble at this point. THIS should have been the focus of the counselor more than anything else.
TrustInYourself Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 No one changes without consequence. Give him consequences. This may hurt you short term. But you win long term. No more date night. No more talking. No more understanding. Crush him into oblivion. He needs to know you are done unless he stops. This isn't something that happens overnight. Once he feels pinched, he's going to lie and say he's changed. Wrong. He hasn't changed. Walk away and don't turn around. Loving him sometimes means giving up on him until he makes changes. You are just enabling his behavior otherwise. Tough love is hard. It's going to hurt. Be prepared mentally.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 Wow - there's that word again........Enabling. I know that for years I have done that.......took me a year to realize it though. The counselor did push - to a small extent - about his drinking & she did speak of AA & Alanon for me. He always had an agruement back to her - When she would ask "how would you spend your time if you didn't go to the bars" His answer was "be a recluse & not have ANY friends". (which sounds so pathetic) She did try to get him to see that there are other things to do in this world besides sit in a bar - but he just really didn't listen...or is too afraid to change that behaviors. What little he took out of the sessions was - He thinks he has his drinking in control. I don't agree. See............this is the impass............ I know that tough love is probably in order ~ One of the things I struggle with is that we are a close-knit family. We still do family dinners on Sunday's. I really don't want to rock the boat for the kids (even though they are 25 & 23) And, for those of you that read this........I seem to be fishing for 'reasons' to not let go completely. FEAR of the unknown is very real.
Owl Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 That's understandable. The real bottomline question is this...when will the pain of what you're going through right now be more than your fear of the unknown? Does it hurt enough now to prod you into making the change and enforcing boundaries? And...how do you manage a day to day life, avoiding decisions (like the lease renewal) while you're waiting for yourself to get to that point?
TrustInYourself Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Wow - there's that word again........Enabling. I know that for years I have done that.......took me a year to realize it though. The counselor did push - to a small extent - about his drinking & she did speak of AA & Alanon for me. He always had an agruement back to her - When she would ask "how would you spend your time if you didn't go to the bars" His answer was "be a recluse & not have ANY friends". (which sounds so pathetic) She did try to get him to see that there are other things to do in this world besides sit in a bar - but he just really didn't listen...or is too afraid to change that behaviors. What little he took out of the sessions was - He thinks he has his drinking in control. I don't agree. See............this is the impass............ I know that tough love is probably in order ~ One of the things I struggle with is that we are a close-knit family. We still do family dinners on Sunday's. I really don't want to rock the boat for the kids (even though they are 25 & 23) And, for those of you that read this........I seem to be fishing for 'reasons' to not let go completely. FEAR of the unknown is very real. Exactly. How do you get past the impasse. You force him to make a choice. Defend his perspective and lose himself to his addiction. Accept your perspective and gain your love and his family. I faced addiction. I defended my addiction. I didn't realize it's affect until my life was upside down. He won't either. Save some love for him and make a hard choice that can save you both.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 19, 2008 Author Posted August 19, 2008 Well, since nothing else has worked to get past the "Impass" - I suppose that everything you all are saying is right. It's the only thing I haven't tried yet. Although, he has pushed me into the corner (I feel) I am tired of allowing him to treat me like a part time wife. Since neither one of us is 100% certain that it's a good idea for me to move back......I'm not. I also have decided to begin dating. There is no reason that he should be out & about 6 nights a week & for me to sit at home waiting for the 7th night & for him to ask me to dinner. Push has come to shove.....sad as that might be.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 19, 2008 Author Posted August 19, 2008 The sadness is from losing a 31 year relationship - & because I never dreamed that "push would come to shove" I held out hope for the last 6 months that things might work out. Putting my life on hold while he continued to party every night. (I know - not very smart of me) I did get up the courage to move out - which for me was a HUGE step - Now I just have to get & keep the courage to say to my husband "I quit as your part time wife" - He tends to make me feel stupid & that I am the one that is always wrong. I actually am having a bit of an anxiety attack right now just typing this out. I know I have to do it - I just lose my courage sometimes. I am terrified that it really is OVER. I do love him - But I just CANNOT go back to what I left - or to what he has become in the last 6 months. Maybe this will get him off of center & realize what it is he will be losing - I'd like to hope so.
TrustInYourself Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 The sadness is from losing a 31 year relationship - & because I never dreamed that "push would come to shove" I held out hope for the last 6 months that things might work out. Putting my life on hold while he continued to party every night. (I know - not very smart of me) I did get up the courage to move out - which for me was a HUGE step - Now I just have to get & keep the courage to say to my husband "I quit as your part time wife" - He tends to make me feel stupid & that I am the one that is always wrong. I actually am having a bit of an anxiety attack right now just typing this out. I know I have to do it - I just lose my courage sometimes. I am terrified that it really is OVER. I do love him - But I just CANNOT go back to what I left - or to what he has become in the last 6 months. Maybe this will get him off of center & realize what it is he will be losing - I'd like to hope so. Maybe. But your life can not be tethered to someone who face an addiction and can not recognize that it is a problem.
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 Maybe. But your life can not be tethered to someone who face an addiction and can not recognize that it is a problem. I know - Everything that everyone has said here I know in my head is correct ~~ Trouble I'm having is getting my heart to catch up with what my head is telling me..........or perhaps I'm going about this all the wrong way - Maybe the reality of it all is that he doesn't want to get back together either. Guess then it's time for me to pull up my big girl panties & get on with it. :)So, now were are the forums to meet new people & for dating??
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 An update & hopefully a little insite from those of you who read this thread: My husband came over last night & we discussed if we are going to try to get back together or not. I read to him the list of things that I wanted for my life, it read something like this: Someone that doesn't need to go to the bars everyday, Someone that doesn't have to have every new waitresses phone number in his cell phone, Someone that can respect me, Someone to love me & actually act like it..........& so on...- Pretty normal requests for anyone , I think. Well, we discussed the bar "everyday"...His answer is "I like going there, I'm going to go every day - there are lots & lots of guys that are in the same places I'm in EVERY SINGLE DAY" (I said if they jump off a bridge are you going to jump right behind them) & he justifies it that he will be home by the time I get home from work. - Then we discussed the phone numbers - he said he has some girls phone numbers in his book, but not every single new waitress..(splitting hairs - I know) - So I asked him, what do you do with these numbers.....his answer "I don't know" "Sometimes I text them HI"--Anyway, I know this is long - & I'm getting to the point where I guess I think I need some help...........As the conversation progressed he became angry & very agitated with me. (I know he had had a few drinks before he came over) - About everytime I'd start to say or ask something, he'd Roll his eyes at me, turn his head, close his eyes, like to shut me out. Several times when I brought up the "waitress issue" he told me to "Shut the FU*& up" I know that I am 50% to blame for the breakup. (I did have an affair also, 2 years ago - to which he says that he's fine with it & we moved past that part of our lives) He NOW says, he's done nothing wrong & I was the one that just needed to be on my own. So after about 3 or so of those eye rolling, shut ups - I asked him to leave. He wouldn't. So we sat in silence for quite a while. He even dozed off a few times. I told him I loved him & that I wanted to come home but not like this. I couldn't go back to what I left...He thinks I live in the past & can't let go of anything - He said to me 'YOU DON"T LOVE ME' or you'd just come home anyway. He also said, that I live in a fantasy world & that no one's life is perfect & there is no such thing as love when you reach our age. (we are 46 & 48) Also, said "Good luck finding a man that doesn't go to the bars" HELP...........why am I so tormented by this. I would tell any of my friends to walk away from this man - Yet I CAN"T DO IT!..Why do we hold on so tightly to something we know isn't right.
Owl Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 OK...that does provide a little more information. I'd wondered about some of the dynamics here. The fact that you had an affair two years ago probably is a larger factor here than you think. I'm betting that it wasn't completely dealt with...and your H and your marriage haven't fully recovered from it. Add to that his current alcholism...recipe for disaster. I'm not saying this is all your fault. I'm not justifying his behavior or actions. Its something to think about. It does boil down to what is your breaking point...at what point will you say "enough is enough".
Author confusedinkansas Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 I hear ya - & I wonder about how the affair did affect him. He says (even last night) that he's over it. But he's not one to express feelings readily. He did phone this morning & apologize. Said he thought a lot when he got home last night (which I'm surprised that he went directly home - normally he would go straight to the bar) He said that he was mean last night & wanted to apologize. - He's not one to say he's sorry very often. I did tell him that I appreciated that. But I agree with you Owl......When is ENOUGH ~ ENOUGH!
2sunny Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 i'd leave him... and stay away long enough for him to figure out if he's willing to change things so you can consider a future or not. just because you're not with him doesn't mean you need to get right out there and date again. i would never recommend that! believe me - i've been in your shoes and you don't need to start making things more complicated than they already are. KEEP THINGS AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE! also - his reaction to your affair is concerning me. it seems a most inappropriate reaction. he should be pissed! by normal standards anyway... and he should want answers as to why it happened - and solutions with the actions that show that effort is made by BOTH of you to keep things in a positive light for your relationship. his reaction to your affair really makes me wonder what is going on here. has your affair allowed him to justify his drinking?is he possibly not mad because he has also done this to you?why is he not willing to face the reality of the M and do the work necessary for it to be healthy? either way - stay on your own and take care of your own sanity while he deals with the hard work necessary to become sober and stay that way.
Recommended Posts