Author SofiaLo Posted August 13, 2008 Author Posted August 13, 2008 xxx Good you are here. I was just reflecting on GEL post. She said that she knew that she wanted to conduct herself in the best way she could to get what she wanted out of the R. w/o betraying herself. I think that is priceless and so powerful. It is also what I have ignored. Even now when trying to be honest with myself......I feel shame to think I m willing to cause pain to a family. But I digress, what I'm getting to is that it scared me to say "this is the man I love, this is the man I want to be in an exclusive R." Can I really deal with His pain and turmoil upon leaving his wife? He has hurt me by casting me aside and I think that is because him, not because the M. OK... I don't have a plan, that's it. That's good enough not to call today. I'll keep thinking about this. I'll keep you company, You are not alone.
jj33 Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 "So at the moment its all on his terms. Feeling very pathetic that Im waiting for his call. It was addressed in one of the above posts that MM know exactly how the OW is feeling when they ignore their calls/dont call them so if they know how upset its going to make the OW then why do it? Do they just see it as a game?! Well its no joke as I very nearly had a nervous breakdown recently & my MM was aware of that so I dont understand why he would do it for the SECOND time! Or do they like to have control? Cos right now I feel its like hes punishing me & trying to show me whos boss or something." Heartbroken. Just ask yourself would you accept this type of behavior from a single man. My guess is no. You would not. In that case there is even less reason to accept it from someone who is married. You deserve more.
wildsoul Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Cos right now I feel its like hes punishing me & trying to show me whos boss or something. Whew! the forum is rich today! Big shiny mirror, too. Thank you. Sometimes I find it so helpful to read, but also respond. As I respond to you, I always know it applies to me too. I call bullshot on part of the NC game! *There! I said it!* The person who is doing the NC has the power. Now, the real NC, the kind that is declared inwardly to oneself and/or outwardly to one's partner is different. But this other thing is different. There is a cat and mouse game that sucks. No one is even sure anymore who is the cat and who is the mouse! I'm in an official NC, but definitely noticing that there is this shadow element still at play. Most of me is doing NC for me and the good of all, but a little part of me is hoping that it is getting to him. You know? Simultaneously, he is doing the same. I'm 100% sure that he is hoping the punishment is working! And I believe he really wants it to work, because if I don't contact him, then dammit, he's going to have to contact me. Oh, but a nasty little part of me is just waiting for the day that he comes crawling to me on his knees for a fix, so I can kick him to the curb. Games. Games. Games. No answers here, but I wanted to point out the game. The obvious answer would be in doing NC for the right reasons: peace, healing, moving on. Maybe it's helpful to notice when we feel caught up in the role of cat or mouse. Maybe then we can stop the game. That's my best guess.
jj33 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Well said WS. When I started this I needed space but a part of me did want him to realize how much he would miss not having me in his life at all. 2 weeks later I am still ridiculously aware of the lack of contact, but I never ever want him to try to come back. It would only be an ego thing and its not healthy. Its just too painful. I just want to put this awful mistake behind me. Even if he were divorced I would have huge issues trusting him. I do hope in time we can be friends but thats a ways off.
beautifullove Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 AS77 - I think you could be onto something. You seem to be very good at analyzing situations, along with other posters. I never quite seem to understand - until I read these posts. Thank God for LS!!! I should have added that when his W text me from his phone, she also sent a second text telling me that I could tell him that she text me (yeah right, so she could get my response). I never responded, which I hope showed her that I have self-respect, dignity and no interest in communicating with him or her. I will not do what she did to us (MM and me) which was constantly call, put him on guilt trips, and be needy to get his time, reason being #1 he dumped and doesn't want me, #2 he is no longer seperated, and #3 I've realized he's not good enough for me. Now, about the games that WS mentioned. I don't like to play games, but in this case it is warranted. I want him to come crawling so I can tell him 'thanks, but no thanks.' Although I am also taking it hour by hour, sometimes day by day, and during other desperate times minute by minute, if he came begging (wishful thinking) it would propel me forward in leaps and bounds in a split second, when it comes to moving on. I just want to be able to say to him what I should have said when I first met him. It's torments me to replay my R with him. Instead of listening to my instincts and leaving, I listened to him on several occasions and stayed. I was spot on with my insecurities. He was riddled with guilt everytime he spoke to her. That was a big warning sign, but I ignored it. Even if he came with divorce papers, the way he has hurt me is something I will never forget.
wildsoul Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 It would only be an ego thing and its not healthy. .... Even if he were divorced I would have huge issues trusting him. Yes, and yes. Sometimes I'm still looking through my withdrawal craziness and imagine him back. Then I try to remember that even if he was divorced tomorrow--we'd have huge trust issues throughout our R. That stuff makes me nutso. We're talking long-term misery, even if he didn't cheat, and in my case, I'm now sure he would. You can have cheating issues with anyone, but to take a known risk seems so dumb. It's one of the sanity checks that keeps me from contacting him. Very little sanity. I grab these small awarenesses like lifesavers.
beautifullove Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 I was just thinking about some of the negative things one could look forward to, if they decided to be with the MM AFTER his D, even though I'm sure there are some success stories like GEL. I would be interested to read some real stories post D. Anyway, here's my list. You may have to deal with resentment on his part - he may one day blame you for the demise of his R. You may have to deal with insecurities when it comes to your character - would he start comparing you? You may have to deal with him one day waking up and going back to his XW. If he was close to his W's family, you WILL have to deal with a lifetime of attachments - i.e. coming together for a funeral (I wonder why I thought of that? lol) And of course, as you guys have mentioned, the potential for cheating I'm sure the list goes on, but these are the things that came to mind.
jj33 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 How about your own resentments based on your other posts even if he didnt resent leaving it sounds like you have a lot of resentment (understandable) towards him. Where the A has been protracted and bumpy I think its very rare that the MM ever does come back and offer a divorce and follow through, more likely that they come back and offer more of the same. But even if he did, it takes two to put the past resentments behind and build a new future. Those of us including me who hold those resentments need to let go of them for ourselves, so that we can get on with the business of enjoying our lives. But even then, it would be difficult to trust him with my heart again. I was in a store today and I heard that song by Rihanna and it really hit home: But you put on quite a show Really had me goin' But now it's time to go Curtain's finally closin' That was quite a show Very entertainin' But it's over now (But it's over now) Go on and take a bow Talkin 'bout "Girl I love you, you're the one" This just looks like a re-run Please What else is on ?
mytruelove Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 i find things ironic - yesterday, i decided that i was going to take a break and not call or email till next week and was (am) feeling really pretty good about that and strong about it. i know when we need a little space and his stress level is through the roof. as it seems to go, i ended up with a problem that only he can fix yesterday (won't go into detail), but it was like -okay -now i'm going to have to call him even though i don't want to. i felt a little angry and resentful about that because it has always been that the times when i've wanted space something happens where we are back together...fate? today is a little rough because of that, but i am determined that i do not want to call him - trying to let the problem go till next week. in analyzing myself, i realize that the problem can probably wait till next week, but the voice in my is saying you know, you should be able to and could call him right away to fix the problem ...or it could be an excuse for myself to break my break. just rambling and looking for support today.
Angel1111 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 So at the moment its all on his terms. Feeling very pathetic that Im waiting for his call. No, it's not all on his terms. It's only on his terms because that's the way you're letting it happen. All you have to do is either send him an email or call him up and leave a message, or if he actually answers his phone, then you can say it to him personally - tell him not to ever contact you again and not to ever try to see you again. Period. No explanation is needed because he knows what he's done. Stop waiting on him to give you your power back - that's ridiculous! I don't mean to be a hardcase here because I know these relationships can cause an unimaginable amount of pain. But reading a post like this makes me nuts. I wonder why it is so diffiult for women to learn perspective, and who taught us to be so incredibly blind and non-reactive? By non-reactive, I mean what is so difficult about getting angry about being treated in this manner, and what is so difficult about something snapping inside of you that makes you realize that this guy has crossed a line and it's the end of the road for him. I see this all the time and it disturbs me a lot. Are we taught this? That anger is such a horrible thing? Are we taught to totally miss all the signs, to put up with as much bad behavior as a man can dish out? There seems to be no self-preservation mechanism in some women to just walk away from this kind of crap. It horrifies me to see this.
Angel1111 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 i find things ironic - yesterday, i decided that i was going to take a break and not call or email till next week and was (am) feeling really pretty good about that and strong about it. i know when we need a little space and his stress level is through the roof. as it seems to go, i ended up with a problem that only he can fix yesterday (won't go into detail), but it was like -okay -now i'm going to have to call him even though i don't want to. i felt a little angry and resentful about that because it has always been that the times when i've wanted space something happens where we are back together...fate? today is a little rough because of that, but i am determined that i do not want to call him - trying to let the problem go till next week. in analyzing myself, i realize that the problem can probably wait till next week, but the voice in my is saying you know, you should be able to and could call him right away to fix the problem ...or it could be an excuse for myself to break my break. just rambling and looking for support today. I'm not sure what your position is but maybe you can get someone else to make the call for you? Maybe a co-worker that you can just say, "Hey, I'm really swamped but could I get you to call so-and-so about this issue...." That would be the biggest slap to him, anyway, knowing that you could've been the one to call him but didn't. Excellent!
mytruelove Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 "I mean what is so difficult about getting angry about being treated in this manner, and what is so difficult about something snapping inside of you that makes you realize that this guy has crossed a line and it's the end of the road for him. I see this all the time and it disturbs me a lot. Are we taught this? That anger is such a horrible thing? Are we taught to totally miss all the signs, to put up with as much bad behavior as a man can dish out? There seems to be no self-preservation mechanism in some women to just walk away from this kind of crap. It horrifies me to see this." THANK YOU ANGEL FOR THE SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT!!! i needed to hear this today!!! AMEN - self-preservation is key. can't thank you enough for posting this as a reminder.
jj33 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Are we taught this? That anger is such a horrible thing? Are we taught to totally miss all the signs, to put up with as much bad behavior as a man can dish out? Its ironic that you should say that. I just went to my acupuncturist/TCM doctor and said that I was kind of upset with myself because I was obsessing over someone and was having a hard time detaching. He asked me if it was anger or grief? I said it might be a little bit of both but mostly grief. He put a needle in what he called an anger point and it sent such an electric shock through my leg that my toes shook. Clearly repreessed anger. Even if you dont believe in TCM, in many cases (not all) the suppression of alot of anger and resentment is part and parcel of being in an A for both the OW and the MM. It was for me. If you are stuck in that situation, the wake up call doesnt come until it comes. And even then if you are the sort of person who doesnt think its nice to get angry it still takes time to accept it and express it or act on it.
Angel1111 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 "I mean what is so difficult about getting angry about being treated in this manner, and what is so difficult about something snapping inside of you that makes you realize that this guy has crossed a line and it's the end of the road for him. I see this all the time and it disturbs me a lot. Are we taught this? That anger is such a horrible thing? Are we taught to totally miss all the signs, to put up with as much bad behavior as a man can dish out? There seems to be no self-preservation mechanism in some women to just walk away from this kind of crap. It horrifies me to see this." THANK YOU ANGEL FOR THE SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT!!! i needed to hear this today!!! AMEN - self-preservation is key. can't thank you enough for posting this as a reminder. You're welcome. And I'm proud of you for not calling the guy when you had an easy excuse.
Angel1111 Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Its ironic that you should say that. I just went to my acupuncturist/TCM doctor and said that I was kind of upset with myself because I was obsessing over someone and was having a hard time detaching. He asked me if it was anger or grief? I said it might be a little bit of both but mostly grief. He put a needle in what he called an anger point and it sent such an electric shock through my leg that my toes shook. Clearly repreessed anger. Even if you dont believe in TCM, in many cases (not all) the suppression of alot of anger and resentment is part and parcel of being in an A for both the OW and the MM. It was for me. If you are stuck in that situation, the wake up call doesnt come until it comes. And even then if you are the sort of person who doesnt think its nice to get angry it still takes time to accept it and express it or act on it. That's really interesting. That would've suprised the heck out of me. I've learned that if something bothers ME, then it is a big deal and I shouldn't treat it like it's not, or that it doesn't matter.
mytruelove Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 yea...i know it's important that i let "silence" sit on this one for a little bit so that he has some time to think...if u know what i mean... and i know that i always appreciate him more and miss him more when i give it some time and space...keeps me from going crazy and losing myself...and if all my energy is depleted then i have nothing to give. it is easier said than done...just makes me sad the time we're missing together. it is like a rubber band with him and i ... we get so close and then get scared because the feelings are so intense and then back away for a little and then come back stronger than ever. tomorrow's another day...
sprintjulia Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 I do find it very hard to understand how MM can compartmentalize their feelings so easily. As stated in this thread, MM does know the impact of him not calling. How hard is it to pick up the phone and call? It seems very selfish that to chose the other option is a very BIG slap in the face. My situation is that my MM has serious stress at work and big problems with the wife. I went a few days last weekend with NC then I emailed him and was pretty light in my message except one line which caused him to call me, I had stated "Please don't hide behind your busy schedule, we are all busy" He actually turned it around so that I was apologizing for that one at the end of the phone call. I did see him during the week and I find that after I am with him I feel really strong but then a couple days go by with NC from him and I feel like s**t. So then I try to regain some lost ground by NC and then again it is much like a vicious cycle. I am just sick over it.
mytruelove Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 My situation is with my guy is a lot like yours - he DOES have extreme stress at work. i've been there and seen it. he has deadlines (which he is very disciplined in meeting) and people always calling, coming, going. constant demands on him. when he does have time he is usually very receptive to spending some time on the phone or i stop by. HOWEVER, you make time for people you love. i'm a firm believer in that and he finds time to call and text other people. i think what you said is great!!! i personally couldn't phathom not calling a friend or blowing them off. i'm not that kind of person. i'm the same way as you, when i see him...i'm good for a while. someone once called it a habit and that is what it sounds like. we get our "fix", they get their "fix"... and you need that fix.
sprintjulia Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 my true love, that is really it in a nutshell. So why is it they can respond so differently to the "fix" and be aloof and almost like not interested in between. I could pull my hair out trying to think about it. I of course have not mentioned any of these feelings bec he has so much on his plate right now that I just want to enjoy the time we spend together, which is so infrequent. He out of the blue the other day texted me to get together and I truly felt like the puppy dog with such an eager response. In retro I look and see just how pathetic I am but it is truly like the drug that takes me to great lengths to get my fix. I question whether I will tire of this any time soon. I recall a friend told me a long time ago, you will know when you have a belly full. It seems to me that my threshold of pain is very high. So now I sit hear in agony hoping that he will call me just to say whats up and maybe just have a nice weekend.
sprintjulia Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 One last thought/question. When your MM decides to call you after whatever of NC and you spend time together is it ok to tell him that you feel like s**t when he does not return your phone calls or better yet does not think to call you to begin with. I wonder how much of my feelings I need to expose. I am very new to this and still trying to figure that out.
mytruelove Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 i know exactly how you are feeling. to go straight to the last question YES, it is MORE than okay to tell him how you feel. straight up. i handle that not in an accusing or demanding way, but just in feeling statements. it allows you to be honest and vulnerable WHICH is a great thing when expressed right, actually very attractive. this is how i handle it when i get to the point of being frustrated and finding myself wanting to shut down. i just tell him in a sweet voice "you could do me a favor?"...to which he always says "what?" and i said "you know how i am always calling, well, i'd really appreciate if you could return that because it doesn't feel good when you don't". that simple. if he is slacking i simply point it out, i don't make demands or accusations, just simply state how I feel and sit back and watch how he reacts...his follow up...then it is up to ME how i respond to that. we have to be true to ourselves, we cannot deny our feelings.
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