Here I am Again: BF Tests me, Verbally Abusive...

[Angel1111]

I was smart with THAT guy because he was way over the top. Then I met my future psycho husband 6 mos later and that's where I got my real education. So, no, I wasn't smart at all. We dated for 3 yrs and even though he was pretty wound up at times, the real him didn't come out until we were married. Then the nightmare truly began. We didn't last long - and for that I'm glad I got out of it - but I really should've read the signs beforehand. I can spot guys like that from 10 miles away now.

 

Trying2Trust is correct, you shouldn't beat yourself up. But you do need to stay on the path of logic right now and learn to only give your heart to those who have proven worthy of it. I'm sure this guy showed signs of his nature early on and you brushed them off as it being a bad day, or extenuating circumstances, whatever.

 

I am endlessly amazed at how these guys all do and say the same things. It's like they read from a script and they're so predictable. Whenever my ex ran out of stupid things to say, he would do exactly what your xbf did - resort to turning the tables and making it look like it was all about me and how selfish I was, how it was all about me, or getting my way. They do that because they know it isn't true and that it offends us to even hear it. So he thinks you'll get so pissed off about that comment that you'll HAVE to reply. He's actually shocked that you haven't.

 

I'm very proud of you for staying firm in your resolve and I know how difficult it is. I try to put myself in your place, trying to remember what it was like and I can barely do it. It's been about 5 yrs now and he is someone I hardly ever think about now. And when I do think about him, it's with no emotion whatsoever. You'll get there someday, trust me.

 

Someone told me once that the reason we attract these kinds of people in our lives is because we're very angry ourselves but we suppress it. Do you believe that? Sometimes I wonder about it because I had never been around men like this before in my life until I met the idiot xbf and then my xh. I wouldn't have described myself as angry but I think I was....it was like a low-level stress from a previous divorce where my ex really gave me hell and I even had to go so far as to appeal the case. All total, it took 2 yrs to divorce him and 4 more yrs to appeal for child support (don't ask me to explain - way too long). But, yeah, I think I was really angry about that but never showed it - not even to myself. I guess it's not really a coincidence that I met those two men, who were so similar and so angry, within a short span of time.

 

What do you think about that theory? Is there, or was there, something going on in your life that you've been angry about - or not angry about but something that most people would be angry about? The only thing I would think is that your family really seems to be distant and unsupportive of you - but I don't know what that's really about, or even if it's true. I just know that when I told my family about my nutty husband, they didn't doubt me for a second. Your family seems to be holding back.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm way off base but I always felt it was a legitimate theory - especially since I wasn't really conscious of my anger until yrs later. Maybe that was the point where I was ready to let go of my xh.

[confused999]

I am endlessly amazed at how these guys all do and say the same things. It's like they read from a script and they're so predictable. Whenever my ex ran out of stupid things to say, he would do exactly what your xbf did - resort to turning the tables and making it look like it was all about me and how selfish I was, how it was all about me, or getting my way. They do that because they know it isn't true and that it offends us to even hear it. So he thinks you'll get so pissed off about that comment that you'll HAVE to reply. He's actually shocked that you haven't.

 

I'm very proud of you for staying firm in your resolve and I know how difficult it is. I try to put myself in your place, trying to remember what it was like and I can barely do it. It's been about 5 yrs now and he is someone I hardly ever think about now. And when I do think about him, it's with no emotion whatsoever. You'll get there someday, trust me.

 

Someone told me once that the reason we attract these kinds of people in our lives is because we're very angry ourselves but we suppress it. Do you believe that? Sometimes I wonder about it because I had never been around men like this before in my life until I met the idiot xbf and then my xh...

 

...What do you think about that theory? Is there, or was there, something going on in your life that you've been angry about - or not angry about but something that most people would be angry about? The only thing I would think is that your family really seems to be distant and unsupportive of you - but I don't know what that's really about, or even if it's true. I just know that when I told my family about my nutty husband, they didn't doubt me for a second. Your family seems to be holding back.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm way off base but I always felt it was a legitimate theory - especially since I wasn't really conscious of my anger until yrs later. Maybe that was the point where I was ready to let go of my xh.

 

Regarding the predictability of his attempts to get my attention, your help has been absolutely amazing Angel. Seeing what he's said and done right after you warned me of the sort of extent he may go to, has really really opened my eyes, -- if his behavior is so predictable then it is about his sickness, and his need to find someone to feed his sickness. I honestly don't think I would be handling this the way I am right now if it weren't for your warnings.

 

FYI he waited a day after that text that said I always get what I want, and then texted throughout an entire day about wanting to come over and f*&ck all day long, pleading in various ways, then switching to how he's confused because I'm so nuts but he loves me so he still has the desire to be with me..., what we have is so wonderful..., is it so wrong to want to be together... Then the next morning he texted about how he knows I have more feelings for him then he has for me... (just a kind of general statement). There have been no texts since then and I haven't listened to my voicemail. I'm not staying at home and haven't checked email, so I don't know about any other attempts at contact if there have been any.

 

Do you think it might possibly end with this?

 

 

This theory is very interesting. Yes, I am angry about two things that are somewhat intertwined... childhood issues and my failure to finish a particular graduate degree, which raises issues of shame and disappointment, cycling back to anger about my family... around and round we go... I know that's vague but maybe you get a general idea. So yes, I think there is merit to this theory. I'll be thinking about it a lot from now on.

 

Which of course this guy knew about, which is why he contacted this particular family member in order to stir the pot and raise chaos and difficulty for me. He absolutely knew she would open her mouth and lap up any crap he said about me, feed into it, and spread it around. He started the conversation with her by saying that he broke up with me long ago, has a new girlfriend, but I can't get over it and I stalk him, so he's calling her to discuss me because he's so concerned about my mental health. I never even introduced him to her because she and I don't get along.

 

I long for the day I feel nothing when I think of him. Right now I know I don't feel enough: not enough anger, not enough sadness and grief, I'm barely starting to process it all. What you said about how you weren't entirely conscious of your anger struck a chord. I think I have some deep-seated belief that being angry is rather selfish and unempathetic for whoever made you angry... so I repress it instead of "selfishly" express it and work it through. "Selfishly" in quotes because I KNOW it isn't true, but it's how I've dealt with anger so far in my life.

 

You're lucky to have a great family to support you. Mine isn't UNsupportive, but these things make them very uncomfortable.

 

I feel like crying and I miss him and so I'll go concentrate on the bad stuff to continue to be logically driven instead of emotionally driven.

[Angel1111]

Regarding the predictability of his attempts to get my attention, your help has been absolutely amazing Angel. Seeing what he's said and done right after you warned me of the sort of extent he may go to, has really really opened my eyes, -- if his behavior is so predictable then it is about his sickness, and his need to find someone to feed his sickness. I honestly don't think I would be handling this the way I am right now if it weren't for your warnings.

 

I'm glad my crappy experience is helpful to someone.

 

FYI he waited a day after that text that said I always get what I want, and then texted throughout an entire day about wanting to come over and f*&ck all day long, pleading in various ways, then switching to how he's confused because I'm so nuts but he loves me so he still has the desire to be with me..., what we have is so wonderful..., is it so wrong to want to be together... Then the next morning he texted about how he knows I have more feelings for him then he has for me... (just a kind of general statement). There have been no texts since then and I haven't listened to my voicemail. I'm not staying at home and haven't checked email, so I don't know about any other attempts at contact if there have been any.

 

Do you think it might possibly end with this?

 

No, I don't think it'll end with that. This is one screwed up guy, I gotta tell ya. He might disappear for a short while to lick his wounds, but have no fear he'll resurface again. BTW, the comment about how he knows you have more feelings for him than he does for you was just another remark designed to bait you into making a comeback.

 

This theory is very interesting. Yes, I am angry about two things that are somewhat intertwined... childhood issues and my failure to finish a particular graduate degree, which raises issues of shame and disappointment, cycling back to anger about my family... around and round we go... I know that's vague but maybe you get a general idea. So yes, I think there is merit to this theory. I'll be thinking about it a lot from now on.

 

Which of course this guy knew about, which is why he contacted this particular family member in order to stir the pot and raise chaos and difficulty for me. He absolutely knew she would open her mouth and lap up any crap he said about me, feed into it, and spread it around. He started the conversation with her by saying that he broke up with me long ago, has a new girlfriend, but I can't get over it and I stalk him, so he's calling her to discuss me because he's so concerned about my mental health. I never even introduced him to her because she and I don't get along.

 

They love to take information that we confided in them and throw it back in our faces. It's such a betrayal. That's interesting that the anger thoery seems to be true for you, too. I think women are often taught that anger is inappropriate so we learn to internalize it, or worse, ignore it. I've learned what a dangerous thing that is and have learned to - not so much express my anger more - but to at least acknowledge it to myself. That seems to keep the nutcases at bay.

 

I long for the day I feel nothing when I think of him. Right now I know I don't feel enough: not enough anger, not enough sadness and grief, I'm barely starting to process it all. What you said about how you weren't entirely conscious of your anger struck a chord. I think I have some deep-seated belief that being angry is rather selfish and unempathetic for whoever made you angry... so I repress it instead of "selfishly" express it and work it through. "Selfishly" in quotes because I KNOW it isn't true, but it's how I've dealt with anger so far in my life.

 

That's because you're still in shock about what he's done and how he's behaving. You will get angry someday and then that will slowly shift to indifference. I promise you - you will never look at him the way as you do now. I never thought I'd feel that way, either, but I am so totally disinterested in what he's doing now that when people tell me where he is or what they think he's doing, I don't care one drop. He's from England so I used to be all concerned about whether he was able to stay in the US or had to move back, all that stuff. I couldn't care less now - except to say that I think England should really take him back since they're the ones who produced him in the first place. I mean, it's only fair to our country, don't ya think?

 

You're lucky to have a great family to support you. Mine isn't UNsupportive, but these things make them very uncomfortable.

 

For what family I have left, they're supportive. But I lost the majority of my family when I left the cultish religion I grew up in. My parents never got to the point of disowning me but pretty much the rest of my family did. I have one sister who also left the religion so I have her, and she has a son who's married with kids. I have 2 other sisters that I don't see at all, and between them they have 6 kids that I wouldn't know if I bumped into them on the street. It's very sad. Not to mention aunts and uncles that I loved so much and lost.

 

So here's a story for you that really epitomizes what these verbally abusive guys are really made of. About 6 yrs ago, both my parents became ill and died within 8 days of one another. During that time, needless to say I was a mess and really needed someone to lean on. But my then husband was SO insecure that all he did was yell at me and start arguments constantly. So I finally called a friend of his and asked her to talk to him and find out what the h-ll was the matter with him. Do you know what she told me after she talked to him? She said that it seemed he didn't like my attention being taken away from him. When my parents died, I actually think my h was relieved. Two less people in this world to take my attention away from him. When I talk about how much your xbf wants your attention, I'm not kidding around.

 

This is the kind of nonsense you would have to deal with if you had ended up marrying your xbf. Are you getting the picture? I hope so. I hope you're starting to see that you have dodged a bullet by your bf showing his true colors now. Your life would be miserable and you could forget about ever be supported in any way. These guys are the 'Columbine' of relationships, and you just exited the premises with only mild injuries. Count your blessings, honey.

 

I feel like crying and I miss him and so I'll go concentrate on the bad stuff to continue to be logically driven instead of emotionally driven.

 

To me it's not so much about concentrating on the bad stuff as it is about concentrating on how you'll never let anyone hurt you, go after you in any harmful way, your emotions, your heart, give rise to your fears - all of that - it's about those self-preservation instincts kicking in, about having strong boundaries, about self-protection, loving yourself so much that you can't imagine letting anyone hurt you.

 

That's what it's really all about - you.....not him. You.

[confused999]

Angel wrote: "So here's a story for you that really epitomizes what these verbally abusive guys are really made of. About 6 yrs ago, both my parents became ill and died within 8 days of one another. During that time, needless to say I was a mess and really needed someone to lean on. But my then husband was SO insecure that all he did was yell at me and start arguments constantly. So I finally called a friend of his and asked her to talk to him and find out what the h-ll was the matter with him. Do you know what she told me after she talked to him? She said that it seemed he didn't like my attention being taken away from him. When my parents died, I actually think my h was relieved. Two less people in this world to take my attention away from him. When I talk about how much your xbf wants your attention, I'm not kidding around."

 

Wow. I'm sorry for such a loss. And it does ring a bell. Throughout our relationship he rarely asked much about my friends, or expressed too much interest in getting to know them. When I went out with them he might ask what I did, but didn't seem to want to know the details. If other men were involved or somehow the topic of other men's interest in me would come up, he'd insist he never gets jealous, that he just doesn't care. Same with my work events; he always had a reason why he couldn't come with me... but fully expected me to come to his.

 

At times I'd dogsit for family/friends, or go help out an elderly friend around her house. He hated these things, even though it never touched him, other than to have a dog around for a few days (and he likes dogs a lot--he even has one but it's living at his parent's house, he doesn't take it anywhere or spend time with it). He would yell at me about how I let people take advantage of me, why don't I just say no when they ask for such favors, etc. If he'd come over and a dog was there he'd argue about how if he'd known I was doing this he wouldn't even come over, insisting I tricked him into it by not telling him ahead of time. Same with when I'd babysit.

 

I thought I'd dealt with my anger. I've acknowledged it, thought I'd worked much of it through. Apparently not. Yeah, "internalize" is the word... The dynamic must be along the lines of when a woman with such internalized anger is with a man who goes into such rages and can be so cruel at times, she is unconsciously comfortable with that anger -- well not comfortable, but accepting of it, rationalizes it, instead of looking at it as a huge red flag as other women would and get away ASAP.

 

Interesting Angel that you have had some difficult family issues as well. Abandonement comes in many forms. Is that how you view having to accept being cut off from so much of your family, even though it is you that got away from them and their religious beliefs? Since many of them wouldn't accept you (I'm totally assuming here) unless you fully accepted their beliefs, it is as if they abandoned you since you think differently. That is what it feels like my exbf is doing to me -- pushing and pushing and pushing me to see if I'll abandon him -- I wonder what he's trying to prove... what does it mean to him that I've stayed thru this much, and what does it mean to him that I've finally drawn the line?

 

And you're right about not letting anyone hurt me llike this again. I think of what he's done, and now remind myself that only someone with NO self-esteem would ever allow him the opportunity to do it again. I may be scraping the bottom of the barrel of esteem right now, but guess what? There is some left!

 

Ha ha reading over what I wrote I sound stronger than I feel. Babysteps I suppose.

[Angel1111]

I'm about to go somewhere with my sister so I may have to stop mid-stream and come back later. Yes, you absolutely do have plenty of self-respect left - otherwise you wouldn't be doing what you're doing right now. It may feel like you're still strongly emotionally pulled in his direction still but that's perfectly normal. Lots of people never get out of these relationships so give yourself credit for stepping out of this situation, even though it's extremely difficult.

 

You should read some stuff by Dr. Joe Dispenza. He has done extensive studies on the brain and one thing that stands out to me is that our brains become hard-wired in relationships. There's literally an electric connection that's tied to a certain person that we feel love for. But what happens is that over time, that connection stops being made and eventually the two things that link them together grow apart. That's why initially it's so hard to let go - because that link is requiring validation and not getting it. Like a drug. But once those two links move away from one another, once the tie has been severed, so to speak, we don't feel the same way. Joe uses the analogy in many ways but I think his studies about the mind are astounding. And it explains a lot as to why relationship connections are so hard to break.

 

Yes, I absolutely felt that my family abandoned me. What really amazed me is that when my dad was in the hospital, all my family was there. I have a big Italian family and we were very, very close. I was talking to one of my uncles - who was really like a 2nd dad to me because we were so close to them when I was growing up. We were alone and had a chance to talk so he said, "You know, I never understood why you left the religion and why you left your family. You know there was a lot of hurt over that." I told him that I no longer believed the religion and couldn't stay in it, and because you can't fake it in that religion, you have no choice but to leave. And then I said, "But I would have never left my family. You have no idea how that has hurt me. I didn't leave you, uncle, it wasn't my choice. Your religion says that you can't socialize with me - so the way I see it, it was my family that abandoned me, you're the ones who made that choice, it was your rules - not mine." He went quiet for a few moments and then said, "Huh, I never looked at it that way."

 

So much love with my family, I can't even tell you. And I would've lied for the rest of my life if I could've gotten away with it in that religion. I would've faked it forever. But they watch and keep track of everything you do, how much time you preach to others, how much you participate in the religion - there is no faking it. It took 2 yrs to actually leave because I had to think about it for that long, that's how horrific it was for me. The sad thing is, I've never replaced my family or the friends I had then. So, yeah, I'm sure there's anger there and I'm sure that's why relationships all feel conditional to me. The religion screwed me up in many ways. In other ways, it has given me a perspective that most people don't have.

 

My xh used to constantly put my friends down and I hated it. I told him once that I was fully aware that my friends had flaws but that didn't mean I didn't love them as my friends. It wasn't until later that he just didn't like for me to have friends because abusers like to isolate the one they're with because it's harder to leave when you have no one to turn to. Pretty soon, he's all you know, he's your whole world. This is why they attract people who are lonesome or disconnected.

 

It seems to be all about the law of attraction - we needed someone to mirror our anger, and they needed someone who would stick around for the abuse. It's a very sad dance.

 

Ok, gotta run. Keep me posted - I love hearing from you. I hope you'll hang in there and remember that you are such a loving and caring person. You have so much more value than you'll ever know.

[confused999]

Thank you Angel, for all your kind words and support. You've truly helped me stay strong and gain perspective. I'm sorry you had to learn so much wisdom from experience.

 

I'll definately let you know what's going on and I'll certainly ask you to repeat some of the things you've already told me 5000 times...

 

Hope your weekend is/was good

[Angel1111]

Yeah, I'm sorry I had to go through it, too. Stay in touch and keep us informed about his latest drama. I used to call my ex a 'drama king' and you may be starting to see why.

 

Take care, you'll be fine.

[RecordProducer]

I think the love rules should change from "talk about your problems with your partner" and "let's see who is making a mistake" and "relationships are hard work" to a simple question: how does he make you feel? Are you feeling happy and secure most of the time? Do you trust him? Is he open and honest with you to the extent where you always know what's on his mind? Does he make you feel appreciated and loved?

 

If the answer is NO, then the next question is: do you think he will ever change? The answer to this is NO by default, but if you believe he might, then ask yourself what indicates that he will.

 

We all make the mistake of believing that THINGS will change, that some THINGS are not right and if we could just removed these things, everything would be fine. For a long time, I believed that if my husband only decided to commit himself to our marriage and work on it, everything would improve. But it's not things, it's PEOPLE who create those things. People who are selfish or passive-aggressive or insecure or plain mean. Even if he is the nicest guy in the world, if he makes you feel bad, he is not that into you or he doesn't know how to show love; in either case, happiness is not awaiting you with such a man.

[confused999]

Yeah, I'm sorry I had to go through it, too. Stay in touch and keep us informed about his latest drama. I used to call my ex a 'drama king' and you may be starting to see why.

 

Take care, you'll be fine.

 

Ha ha yes, I see why! My exbf and I talked about that a few times, that he's a drama king... he eventually admitted it. He's been calling and texting but I haven't read them or answered his calls. I wonder when he'll give up?

[confused999]

I think the love rules should change from "talk about your problems with your partner" and "let's see who is making a mistake" and "relationships are hard work" to a simple question: how does he make you feel? Are you feeling happy and secure most of the time? Do you trust him? Is he open and honest with you to the extent where you always know what's on his mind? Does he make you feel appreciated and loved?

 

If the answer is NO, then the next question is: do you think he will ever change? The answer to this is NO by default, but if you believe he might, then ask yourself what indicates that he will.

 

We all make the mistake of believing that THINGS will change, that some THINGS are not right and if we could just removed these things, everything would be fine. For a long time, I believed that if my husband only decided to commit himself to our marriage and work on it, everything would improve. But it's not things, it's PEOPLE who create those things. People who are selfish or passive-aggressive or insecure or plain mean. Even if he is the nicest guy in the world, if he makes you feel bad, he is not that into you or he doesn't know how to show love; in either case, happiness is not awaiting you with such a man.

 

I agree. My exbf could be the nicest guy in the world, we would talk so much, laugh constantly, have fun together all the time. We didn't bicker, didn't get grumpy, didn't get on each other's nerves. But then he'd blow up and storm out and we wouldn't see each other for a day or two... Then we'd get together and everything would be wonderful again. And yes, I stupidly excused his behavior as part of his over-sensitivity, general moodiness, work-stress, etc. So when we were together I did feel good; and even now, after this insane behavior my memories of being with him are good ones. However, he IS selfish, passive-aggressive, insecure AND plain mean, I see that now. But it's so hard to match together these last few weeks with the person I spent so much time with these last 2 years. Very weird.

[confused999]

I had a dream last night about my xbf... only the second one I recall having since all this, and both of them were about him being sick (physically, not mentally -- ha!) and just being at my place suddenly, sick in bed. In the dream I was confused as to why he was there. Interesting he's been sick in both dreams.

 

Anyhow I guess the dream pushed me to finally read a couple of his texts. One came in this morning around 7am, he accusing me of following him, going through his phone and calling people, always needing to know and finding out who he's with/where he is... the one before that was him being nice, wanting to get together. I haven't read anymore, and of course haven't responded. I'm still not staying at my place, haven't been there and haven't checked my email. I guess he's trying to push my buttons, say anything to get me to respond, pull me in?

[Angel1111]

I think your subconscious mind knows he's sick and it doesn't make the distinction between phycial illness and mental illness. So in your dreams, he's messed up and in reality he's.....well, very messed up.

 

Yeah, you know he's pushing your buttons and pulling every trick in the book right now. What an idiot. They don't even understand how twisted the gyrations between anger and sweetness makes them completely psychotic.

 

I'm concerned that if he's making accusations that he may accuse you of something. I really do think you need to file a report with the police and show them the text messages, and anything else you might have. Keep a copy of your phone bill, also, that shows all the incoming texts but none going out. This is important if he ever goes really nuts. Rent the documentary called "Crazy Love" and you'll see a real nutcase at work (or maybe you shouldn't watch it - it's pretty nuts).

 

Just curious, why don't you change your phone number? Will it cause problems if you do? Is he only sending text messages or is he calling also?

[confused999]

He's mostly texted, relative to how much he's tried calling. I planned on changing my number when I get back to town, but I admit I waver on that, I am scared that doing so will make him even more angry -- angry enough to do who knows what. I guess I'm hoping he'll stop -- he has other options, he's good looking, funny, charming etc., etc., not hard for him to date, hook up, whatever.

 

I know, it's odd how he doesn't seem to see how up and down he is, sweet and loving, too sexual, mean... sweet, too sexual, mean... Friends tell me that in and of itself is a sign he's sick. I don't know.

[whichwayisup]

If he reacts in way that scares you, don't hesitate to call the police. You do what you need to do, so change your number. Don't let what he might or might not do prevent you from making it harder for him to contact you.

 

If you live alone, ask a friend or a family member to stay with you, or even stay at a friends house.

[Angel1111]

Hey, Confused - how are things going with you? Just wondering if you're doing ok.

[confused999]

Hey, Confused - how are things going with you? Just wondering if you're doing ok.

 

Thanks for checking in Angel, it's very kind of you.

 

Things have slid back a little for me -- I saw him on Saturday when he came by and I was caught off guard doing yard work. I had had NO contact until then. I was not friendly; I was mostly indifferent. Told him I'm busy and have to get ready and leave soon. He got angry and said the least I can do is talk to him right then since I haven't bothered to answer any of his calls back for weeks... I did feel guilty when he said that. He wanted to come in, I told him I don't want him in my home. He didn't even ask why, which I thought was interesting. But he did push a button when he tried to get close to me and brought up romance between us... I got angry and very sternly told him that I can barely remember anything like that with all this that has gone on, with these strange calls I've received (I'll exlain that below, in a second)... he looked sheepish for a second but then said "there's that dual personality coming out again" refering to how I could be quiet and polite one second and get angry so quick the next. I said listen, I AM angry, I AM conflicted emotionally and I'm not ashamed of my feelings... this has all been so crazy -- but then I shut up because I thought I was feeding him, giving him something for his ego. Anyway at some point he brought up that he's looking into tickets for this show we'd been wanting to see for a very long time -- it's coming to town. I didn't respond, then he said but he hasn't got around to buying them yet. Asked me what I was doing the rest of the weekend, I told him this and that... then he told me about his busy busy plans. He tried again with the romance, saying how extra special I am, even if this is all blown up right now and that coming over was a mistake, he thought he could come over and explain to me why we couldn't ever, ever date again, he got angry, red-faced, saying again how I'm an emotional wreck and stormed off without a goodbye.

 

So is that going to be it? Is he letting it go now or did I feed his ego just enough that he'll lay low for a while and start up again when he's bored?

 

Weird thing is I had been moving forward a little, not so confused until a couple days before he popped up... I started missing him more than I had in weeks and wishing I could talk to him, blah blah, missing our good times... it's like he KNEW just when to pounce...

 

I'll explain about the strange phone calls in a bit.. gotta go real quick...

[paddington bear]

Confused please stop defending your actions to him. He is accusing you of doing to him what he has done to you - he's twisting your mind. He is like some cult leader who has brainwashed you and only when you somehow get some kind of perspective will you realise how much you've been manipulated - I know you realise you've been manipulated now, but I mean, in say, a year or so you will be shocked that you put up with his behaviour for so long.

 

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html - Sociopath definition

 

He sounds totally sociopathic to me - I was involved with a guy similar to your guy - but thankfully not quite so bad and someone mentioned the word sociopath in relation to him and everything made total sense, and so I read up on it, and somehow researching it made me feel strong enough to break the last bonds there. It explained his behaviour. It explained that it wasn't normal behaviour and most of all it explained that it was nothing to do with me, it was him and his f****d up brain and that made me disengage once and for all.

 

Any communication with him with mess with your head. When you bumped into him you should have simply walked away, not replied to anything because you're right, this is how it's going to be. Every time you're about to move on, he will reappear somehow and undo everything. He is like a puppetmaster, pulling your strings and you seem unable to pull out those scissors and cut the strings.

 

I don't mean to be harsh. I've been there myself, but you need to get far far away from this guy in every way. Block all calls, delete all texts without even reading, simply turn and walk in the other direction if you see him. Do not respond to anything he says - any reaction at all is only fuelling whatever power he thinks he has over you.

 

I would even advise some counselling for you. Friends telling you 'he's bad news' isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. You need to deal with what it is that keeps you from mentally totally moving on from him - again I think he's set up an addiction in you, being nice, you love him, being nasty, you're confused, being nice again, phew, you're relieved but worried he'll get nasty again, he gets nasty and you get hurt, the hurt feels better when he's nice again and over and over and over so that you will put up with anything just to get that little bit of nice again. It's taken me a long time to realise that men aren't all like this. I am amazed at how normal and non-manipulative guys can be. And that's the real damage, he will ruin your expectations about men in the future. Please, please, please get away from this guy. Please.

[confused999]

[quote=paddington bear;1831267

 

...he's twisting your mind. He is like some cult leader who has brainwashed you...

...He sounds totally sociopathic to me...

...He is like a puppetmaster, pulling your strings and you seem unable to pull out those scissors and cut the strings...

 

...Do not respond to anything he says - any reaction at all is only fuelling whatever power he thinks he has over you....

 

...I would even advise some counselling for you. I think he's set up an addiction in you, being nice, you love him, being nasty, you're confused, being nice again, phew, you're relieved but worried he'll get nasty again, he gets nasty and you get hurt, the hurt feels better when he's nice again and over and over and over so that you will put up with anything just to get that little bit of nice again.

 

...It's taken me a long time to realise that men aren't all like this. I am amazed at how normal and non-manipulative guys can be. And that's the real damage, he will ruin your expectations about men in the future. Please, please, please get away from this guy. Please.

 

I think you're absolutely right, paddinton bear. And I agree with absolutely no contact, not hearing or reading anything from him at all. It is like an addiction, and I'm having to go cold turkey. Also, the last couple months of our relationship I didn't quite react the way he predicted I would when he pulled my strings like a puppet, and that's when the chaos increased remarkably. I can already see some of the damage that has been done to me, psychologically. Just having to go completely cold turkey is one sign... when I have read a few of his texts here and there I do definately feel myself reacting, and I immediately wanted to call him, see him, etc. That is why I haven't read any in a long time, but when I did I always read older ones, to protect myself from getting caught up. I went out this weekend and meet a few nice guys through friends... while talking with one in particular I could hear my brain looking for signs of how he's manipulating me; not IF he's potentially a controlling type, seems angry, etc., but HOW he's manipulating me.

 

Yes, my xbf definately twisted up my mind. I used to say that to him, "you can't just twist around things that've happened between us, picking and choosing what you want to be real and what you don't. And just because you say something is true doesn't make it true." And he'd just look back at me, blankly.

 

And thanks for the link, paddington, very good info, with good links embedded. I saw him there for sure.

[Angel1111]

What you're going through is just plain old missing him. These feelings don't go away easily. But I think if you keep his little getaway trip with the other woman in the forefront of your mind at those weak moments, it might be like cold water in your face. He changed your vacation plans without telling you and went with another woman. This is the highest of insults. Don't let yourself forget the coldness with which he did that.

 

As I said to you before, he will start pulling out all the heavy artillary in order to get you back. That means working on your sympathy, playing on your emotions in any way he can, in any manner he can think of. And that means being totally quiet if that's what it takes. Every trick in the book. That's what he'll do. And if he cons you back into his life, you'll see his 'love' at work -- demonstrated by ripping you apart so badly that you may never recover. Be very aware and honoring of your emotions, but don't be fooled by this guy. He has horrible, dealbreaker qualities and there is no way around those facts. Does that mean he doesn't have good qualities? Of course not. But don't forget my 'axe murderer' analogy. He may be handsome, smart, charming, you have history with him, but he is a true fruitcake in every sense of the word. Ignoring this is like saying 'he's an axe murderer but I can overlook that.' You can't.

 

I'm glad to hear you're ok. I think you're doing fine and you're showing incredible character. This stuff hurts and it's hard to get past when we love someone. But look forward to the day when this is all over. If you don't, your life will be all about this drama and pain.

 

So what's the deal with the weird phone calls?

[Angel1111]

Yes, my xbf definately twisted up my mind. I used to say that to him, "you can't just twist around things that've happened between us, picking and choosing what you want to be real and what you don't. And just because you say something is true doesn't make it true." And he'd just look back at me, blankly.

 

My ex once told me something he said to someone about something that happened between us and his answer was a total lie. I said, "You're telling me this like I'm supposed to believe it. You know, you can tell anyone anything you want but don't ever try to pull that crap on me because I was there, if you remember right. So I know what happened." He looked at me like it suddenly occured to him that I was actually in touch with the real world. The thought escaped him momentarily.

[confused999]

Thanks Angel, seeing him the other day would've been a lot more difficult for me to handle if I weren't keeping all that you've told me in mind -- the predictability of what he might say. I wish I had been completely indifferent to him, but fine, I'm human and I care for him (well, who I thought he was anyway) and of course have this piece of me that wishes things were different, so I don't really regret too much getting a little upset so I could just see once again how he'd react.

 

Yeah, the stupid drama... I guess that's what he was trying by bringing up getting tickets to that show, to see if I'd get excited and want to go with him -- I bet a million bucks that if I had acted interested he would've said NO, that's not a good idea, and been very satisfied that I was interested and he got to push me down once again, after all this ignoring I've done of him. He made it so he had a dramatic exit, nonetheless.

 

The weird phone calls were from that woman he supposedly is not and never has dated, according to them both. (who cares, makes no difference at this point, damage has been done -- both are crazy as far as I'm concerned) She got thru to me twice, and if that happens again I'll easily tell her never to call again and hang up. First time she told me she got 3 weird e-cards, including one allegedly signed from my ex that was really supposedly some kind of spyware. I answered nothing, but asked her why is she calling me? She finally said "because you sound no nice and sweet and honest, and I have to protect my 4 kids from any danger, and my husband that I'm going thru a nasty divorce with tried to kill me 3 times, and I need to know if you know him..." No, I don't know him I tell her, so she tells me all the different names he goes by, with all the various women he's cheated on her with, including generic names like John and Mike. I just kept saying no, but then I played along with this one guy in mind I did date before my ex. I said describe him... a couple things matched, but it seemed like she'd switch details if I contradicted her. Then I said "Oh, but no this guy had one dead tooth right in front... " She's all "YES YES YES THAT's HIM OMG!!!" Then she keeps saying we should get together for a drink, which I say no to and hang up.

 

Next time she called she says she has to cancel our plans for a drink that night because this guy called her for dinner and she's going to meet him instead... unless I want to come along because he has a friend? I said we didn't have plans, and NO I don't want to come along. She starts asking if I'm dating any guys, asking if I go out a lot, where do I go, etc etc., which I don't answer -- I say something vague like I'm lucky, I have friends and it's not hard for me to meet guys. Then she's all dreamy (oddly dreamy) about how cute this guy is she has a date with and she's so excited but she'll be a good girl, she won't do anything with him so soon... "well maybe, giggle giggle sigh sigh." I'm listening in amazement, then hang up. She called back and I didn't answer.

 

All that weirded me out for day or so, but now I just can't even believe how ridiculous it is. Whatever the truth is, if she's calling on her own, if my xbf had her call to find out what I'm up to, whatever... It's so lame it's embarrassing.

 

What the hell? Did things like that happen to you Angel? It seems like everything else has, including their making up reality as they go along (and partly believing it too, I think), and then having the audacity to think we'd believe it too, just because they said so. Yes, I'm sure your ex forgot you were actually human, and not the living doll he wanted you to be when he told you about his BS!!!!

[Mary3]

I did believe you Angel, I just didn't... couldn't... imagine it could be like this. So you think his saying "you better hurry" was a threat? I mean I took it as some kind of threat, but I don't know what kind he's talking about. There is no going back, I'm completely aware of that. That's the one blessing out of his behavior lately, that I do realize there is no going back. I am scared of him. If I let him sweet talk me into meeting up with him I think he'd try to get me alone and who knows what he'd do then.

 

Reel me in and kill me? You mean just utterly destroy my self-esteem (what's left of it - ha)? He's said in the past that when he gets retribution (which he said he always does) he waits so the person is surprised and doesn't necessarily know it was him that got them. He was talking about friends, co-workers. I don't know if he'd do that to me, other than try to contact me and charm me in some way to feed his ego.

 

How on earth did he get this woman to call me back and say she's didn't sleep with him, etc? I understand your saying stop asking why... how... but it's just so cruel.

 

I won't respond to any contact from him, even though I'm scared it'll make him more angry. He's kind of chicken too, he doesn't like putting himself in situations where he can be rejected; his ego can't stand rejection of any sort -- even from people he cares little about. So I think I have that going for me.

 

I had to stop at post # 44 . I have not read further but this stopped me dead in my tracks . When he says : this is what I do for retribution for people that hurt me , then you can BET its the exact same thing he will do to YOU. Always remember that. IN the beginning of a R the guys actions , how he treats those in his present and his past , you can BET you will get the same negative treatment later.

 

This guy has ZERO respect for you. NONE. The part about the girl. I think the girl thing is BS. He put her up to it to upset you. This is a serious LOSER.

 

Why do you stay ? Because you believe in some way in his treatment OF you , believe in hanging around for more , feeling confused why you would take this kind of treatment. Simply put : You don't love yourself ( yet ) but you can LEARN to love you ! Then you can tolerate ZERO disrespect. You will see signs early the next guy and take appropriate action to distance yourself from LOSERS.

 

The " I am scared of him , making him angry " Thats all part of the control. He treats you like dirt. Gutter bugs get better treatment than you do.

 

RUN !

[High Plains Drifter]

I don't know how to deal with this, this is very odd and I need advice, please.

 

I'm not gonna read through 4-5 pages of BS.

 

My advice it to begin charging him for "sleep-overs," or find a guy to freakin' marry.

[Angel1111]

No, my ex never had anyone call to find out what I was doing. But that was when I was too dumb to know that I should stop talking to him and I didn't understand his games.