Lights Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 I don't know just what it is that has been opposing me, but it seems to have won almost totally. I've become pretty much invisible to women, with the exceptions in recent memory all having been negative responses. Still more nonresponse to even a hi. In slower situations at distances, body language has absolutely no effect, and none is generated towards me. (After all these years, even a basic hair-flip hasn't been sent my way even once, and I can't remember the last time I was able to have eye contact result in any actual interest. I'm strongly suspecting that body language is a myth.) And that's just when I'm taking initial actions of any kind. I've long ago already done my spouting off here about the disgusting situation about the lack of direct approaches coming my way; I no longer think this is the forum to discuss it in. Nothing seems to be working at all. Nor can I seem to find out what the lesson in each of the failures is. <rant> Something just doesn't seem right here. I have detected people with comparable or even inferior ability taking similar or even apparently normally ineffective actions or lacks thereof in this arena, and yet it is me who is left with nothing. Dammit, these are things mere schoolchildren can do. And I'd like to think that I'm maybe just a tad more mature and advanced than a damned child. What is it that is fighting me? </rant> Are there any men here who have suffered this fate and had been able to turn the situation around?
Lovelybird Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 ?Dammit, these are things mere schoolchildren can do. And I'd like to think that I'm maybe just a tad more mature and advanced than a damned child. most of time people's inner child in themselves want to connect to another human being. Do you smile? or could it be you take yourself too seriously? Maybe you didn't give what those women want, i don't know: simple smile, able to laugh at yourself from time to time, make them laugh, give them care? If I search a bf, I won't search a professor who are so serious all the time, I want someone with whom I can be myself, I can relax without fear rejection, can express myself without fear being beaten, have fun together, understand my heart or trying to understand, can laugh silly things about ourselves see, women aren't that complicated
Mako482 Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 most of time people's inner child in themselves want to connect to another human being. Do you smile? or could it be you take yourself too seriously? Maybe you didn't give what those women want, i don't know: simple smile, able to laugh at yourself from time to time, make them laugh, give them care? If I search a bf, I won't search a professor who are so serious all the time, I want someone with whom I can be myself, I can relax without fear rejection, can express myself without fear being beaten, have fun together, understand my heart or trying to understand, can laugh silly things about ourselves see, women aren't that complicated Sure they're not;) The problem I see lately is you have to be that much better than the next guy or you're toast. Either that or hope the "better" next guy is home sick for a few weeks while she gets attached to you. In my case while I am being genuine (all those things you talk about too, it is everyday life for me to be playful, funny, and laugh at myself, every woman I have met tells me how easy I am to talk to) the next guy is a gamer, he wins most of the time which also means she loses most of the time. Problem is by the time she figures it out I am long gone. With online dating out there it is a buffet man, good luck to you. Seems like the lotto nowadays when it comes to finding love.
sultry33 Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 hi op.. i think i can kind of relate and im a woman.. when i fancy a guy which is not often in my case i clam up.. cannot do the hair flick.. smile.. i just get damn nervous and run off.. the times ive tried im sure went well wrong.. yet guys i see as friends an thats all i give out all these vibes too.. i have noticed that some guys are changing there tactics to get a girl which to me does not really work but its kinda fun.. maybe these tactics have always been around just ever used on me.. but strange i think.. guy talks to you.. teases you about "whats your name again.. oh forgot".. suggests you cannot handle them ... they are too young.. blar blar.. i just want to bitch slap them.. then they buy you drink.. or try steal one you have.. chat your mates up or insult them... seriously strange.. i always walk off feelin a little confused... but they still chase me.. its a crazy world or maybe its my world.. maybe you need to look at where you are going to meet potential date.. maybe change your style.. be a bad boy/ good i dont know.. but dont try too hard.. im not too worried tbh.. if an when im ready i be ok.. tell yourself that too:)
Mako482 Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 No no no, don't become a bad boy, we have enough of them stealing our women already!
eric82 Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 well imagine if fate predestined that a year from now, you're going to meet a girl you're really into who falls head over heels in love with you, no matter what you do. if you knew this for certain ahead of time, would you really still be worrying about all this aggravation and misfortune in your life right now? what if you also knew that this girl was going to leave you a few years later and then the following year, you'll meet the girl you're going to marry. would this take away from the prior relationship? what if five years later, your wife dies of cancer and you live the next several years of your life alone. would this make it a 'failed' marriage in your eyes? what if by losing her, you learned to better appreciate the small things you still have in life, even when it seems nothing is going your way. my point is, loss and gain are matters of perspective. life is change. struggle is inevitable. everything is temporary, except for the impact that life lessons can impart on you. it's not fate or failure that's keeping you down, it's your perceptions. the way you view yourself interacts with how others view of you. if i can sense your desperation through an online forum, it's no wonder most women steer clear from you in real life. they can sense it on you from a mile away. lighten up. being alone doesn't make your life any more important or less worthwhile, and having a woman will never fix your life or your self-worth. considering your current emotional state, i think a relationship in your life at this point in time will only temporarily distract you from self-deprecation. learn to love and respect yourself more and you'll make it easier for others, guy or girl, to want to be around you.
torranceshipman Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Do you have any female friends who could give you feedback on the way you come across? That might really, really help! I bet you are nowhere near as bad as you think! If you give off a vibe of being unapproachable and unconfident though, some women might think, I just wont bother as I wont get a response! If they thought you might be responsive, they might flirt more! Feedback would definitely help to let you know how you act. Also have you tried online dating? That way you get to know the person online before meeting and it might make things easier?
sultry33 Posted August 12, 2008 Posted August 12, 2008 No no no, don't become a bad boy, we have enough of them stealing our women already! haha i used to like a badboy.. but seriously its getting boring now;)
Lovelybird Posted August 12, 2008 Posted August 12, 2008 maybe professor type is good, as long as he has a gold heart, and be faithful, we don't ask too much
Lovelybird Posted August 12, 2008 Posted August 12, 2008 Sure they're not;) The problem I see lately is you have to be that much better than the next guy or you're toast. Either that or hope the "better" next guy is home sick for a few weeks while she gets attached to you. In my case while I am being genuine (all those things you talk about too, it is everyday life for me to be playful, funny, and laugh at myself, every woman I have met tells me how easy I am to talk to) the next guy is a gamer, he wins most of the time which also means she loses most of the time. Problem is by the time she figures it out I am long gone. With online dating out there it is a buffet man, good luck to you. Seems like the lotto nowadays when it comes to finding love. maybe you didn't meet the right one yet, her maturity doesn't match yours. and a 'better one' is just around the corner
Author Lights Posted August 14, 2008 Author Posted August 14, 2008 Do you have any female friends who could give you feedback on the way you come across? That might really, really help! I bet you are nowhere near as bad as you think! If you give off a vibe of being unapproachable and unconfident though, some women might think, I just wont bother as I wont get a response! If they thought you might be responsive, they might flirt more! Feedback would definitely help to let you know how you act. Also have you tried online dating? That way you get to know the person online before meeting and it might make things easier? Thanks for the vote of confidence, Torranceshipman. I don't have any female friends, though; it's the same problem. If they don't talk to me at all or even respond to a hi, that doesn't lend itself to making friends either. I don't know what kind of vibe I have, but I certainly am unconfident--a track record like mine will definitely do that. It's a painful circular trap. I wish I knew how to get some actual feedback instead of merely being cut down or held off or even being insulted. It's only been twice that I've actually been able to ask someone directly for feedback about the matter (e.g. "Am I someone you would date?"), and neither response really explained anything. I've never done online dating. I was hoping not to have to resort to that, but it looks like I might be forced to. well imagine if fate predestined that... my point is, loss and gain are matters of perspective. life is change. struggle is inevitable. everything is temporary, except for the impact that life lessons can impart on you. it's not fate or failure that's keeping you down, it's your perceptions. the way you view yourself interacts with how others view of you. if i can sense your desperation through an online forum, it's no wonder most women steer clear from you in real life. they can sense it on you from a mile away. lighten up. being alone doesn't make your life any more important or less worthwhile, and having a woman will never fix your life or your self-worth. considering your current emotional state, i think a relationship in your life at this point in time will only temporarily distract you from self-deprecation. learn to love and respect yourself more and you'll make it easier for others, guy or girl, to want to be around you. But what else can I do? Fate doesn't help me (if it existed, I would consider it an enemy, not an ally), and if I was warned years ahead of time that I'd be continuing to face this for as long as I have been, I'd have likely blown up in a rage and then given up socializing altogether, replacing time and resources once allocated there to things that actually were and felt rewarding in some way. And what's really painful about this is that there are no lessons being imparted, to use your phrase. I'm not learning anything from any of what's been happening. I don't expect "a woman" to "fix" anything. I just seek the full range of effectiveness in dealing with women in all desired social situations (dates, flings, name it). I just don't know what it is that has almost completely destroyed everything I've been attempting for all this time. I don't really know what you mean by love and respect myself, but I'll see what I can do. I don't see myself as disrespecting myself. hi op.. i think i can kind of relate and im a woman.. when i fancy a guy which is not often in my case i clam up.. cannot do the hair flick.. smile.. i just get damn nervous and run off.. the times ive tried im sure went well wrong.. yet guys i see as friends an thats all i give out all these vibes too.. maybe you need to look at where you are going to meet potential date.. maybe change your style.. be a bad boy/ good i dont know.. but dont try too hard.. im not too worried tbh.. if an when im ready i be ok.. tell yourself that too:) Well, I don't really have a style or a place. I never got the chance to create or develop any style, and I don't really get to choose or know ahead of time where I will be when someone of potential interest passes by.
Lovelybird Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 I don't know what kind of vibe I have, but I certainly am unconfident--. show a picture of yours, then we can tell what vibe you give out
D-Lish Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 I have just gotten to that point when I see someone I think is attractive I make direct eye contact and give them a huge smile. I think for the most part it's still to intimidating for someone to respond to that by making an approach and saying hello though...
Author Lights Posted August 17, 2008 Author Posted August 17, 2008 show a picture of yours, then we can tell what vibe you give out Thanks, but sorry, that can't happen. I've already revealed a dangerous amount of information about myself on this site over time. I cannot have myself too much more identifiable.
Author Lights Posted September 1, 2008 Author Posted September 1, 2008 If there's anyone here who has successfully overcome something like what I have described, I could use your advice. It just doesn't end; even today yet more times I still seem to be ignored. Were I a believer in conspiracy theories, I'd almost believe that something was actively seeking to have me shut out entirely. I can no longer even remember the last time a woman even responded to even as much as a hi.
likestolaugh Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 what? people don't respond even when you say hi? what the hell?... it's just common politeness to respond...
Author Lights Posted September 1, 2008 Author Posted September 1, 2008 what? people don't respond even when you say hi? what the hell?... it's just common politeness to respond... Pretty much. More and more it seems that this entire culture I live in sickens me.
paddington bear Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Lights I've been the invisible girl for years! YEARS! It's miserable and awful and the worst thing is, the longer it goes on the more invisible you feel. You said something in your original post about this not always being the case - was there a defining moment when things began to change? For me it was a number of horrible situations involving people I thought were good friends combined with a breakup. I just simply lost any confidence that I'd had, was thrust out into the world of singledom and after initially feeling happy about being single and looking forward to meeting the next one I then realised that that simply wasn't going to happen - 10 years later and I'm still single - yes there's been brief flings, some one night stands just to remind me that I'm still alive, but really it's been 10 years of wondering exactly what you're wondering 'what the f**k is wrong with me??? I still sometimes think 'I just don't get to have that', I have no idea why fate has decided that, but it seems to be the case - and I'm someone with a lot of very supportive friends, party friends, coffee acquaintances, I've a busy and very social life - I hate using this word, but I'm a popular person, much in demand (God, that feels horribly bragging to write that, but I'm just trying to show that it seems weird to be popular with friends but not with available members of the opposite sex). Only in the last few weeks have things begun to change for me. I told a friend I was invisible. I mentioned this in some other thread. She said 'Of course you are, you don't look at men, you don't smile at them, you don't notice them at all'. After an initial bristle at this slight and thinking 'yes I do!' I thought about it and realised that no, in fact I don't. I'd been giving 'keep away' signs totally unconsciously. I've been working on that, and not just with men, with everyone. I walk with my head held high, I smile at children, old men, young teens, I catch people's eyes when I'm out clubbing, I talk to random strangers in toilets when I'm out (ok that sounds a bit gross) and weirdly, my invisibility is disappearing. I went out with a gay male friend the other night and he pointed out all the guys checking me out...and I have to say I was still unaware of most of them. I think the key is to focus on what energy you're putting out there instead of focusing on every snub or slight. Hope this helps, sorry for long post
Author Lights Posted September 1, 2008 Author Posted September 1, 2008 Lights I've been the invisible girl for years! YEARS! It's miserable and awful and the worst thing is, the longer it goes on the more invisible you feel. You said something in your original post about this not always being the case - was there a defining moment when things began to change? There wasn't any particular moment. It's just that over time, attempting to meet women of possible interest has gone from being extremely low-percentage to outright zero. I do not remember offhand the last time a woman I approached did not simply walk right by or otherwise ignore me outright. For me it was a number of horrible situations involving people I thought were good friends combined with a breakup. I just simply lost any confidence that I'd had, was thrust out into the world of singledom and after initially feeling happy about being single and looking forward to meeting the next one I then realised that that simply wasn't going to happen - 10 years later and I'm still single - yes there's been brief flings, some one night stands just to remind me that I'm still alive, but really it's been 10 years of wondering exactly what you're wondering 'what the f**k is wrong with me??? Even that much I haven't been able to accomplish. I'm still stuck trying to get even one of them at a given time and location to even talk to me (exemplified in the lack of responses to any approach, even to saying hi). The flings and one-night-stands that you mention are far ahead of anything I've accomplished. (I've tried to ask on this site how flings were done, but the thread got jammed up with other stuff.) Only in the last few weeks have things begun to change for me. I told a friend I was invisible. I mentioned this in some other thread. She said 'Of course you are, you don't look at men, you don't smile at them, you don't notice them at all'. After an initial bristle at this slight and thinking 'yes I do!' I thought about it and realised that no, in fact I don't. I'd been giving 'keep away' signs totally unconsciously. I've been working on that, and not just with men, with everyone. I walk with my head held high, I smile at children, old men, young teens, I catch people's eyes when I'm out clubbing, I talk to random strangers in toilets when I'm out (ok that sounds a bit gross) and weirdly, my invisibility is disappearing. I went out with a gay male friend the other night and he pointed out all the guys checking me out...and I have to say I was still unaware of most of them. I think the key is to focus on what energy you're putting out there instead of focusing on every snub or slight. Hope this helps, sorry for long post I've tried to smile as best as my mood and reflexes allow (it doesn't always happen), and I've attempted to strike up conversations for longer than I care to even remember. The latter action, regrettably is beyond the capacity of most apparent humans in my area, but nevertheless my own actions along those lines just aren't helping me; as I mentioned, no one seems to respond to anything at all. It even happened again today. They just walk right by... I haven't any clue about what energy I'm putting. The only information I've received on that matter is that some years ago, someone once said I have a guard up in public, but that he considered that a good thing. I have no information from any [in-person] female points of view. But I don't anticipate being able to obtain one if the women don't talk with me at all in the first place.
konfuzd Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 You are the one fighting yourself. You have such a negative attitude. You go into a situation thinking "I'll say hi, but I probably won't get a response". You think all women are rude. You expect failure so you get failure. What kind of girls are you approaching? Where are they when you spout off a random 'hi'? How many relationships do you think start from 2 people just walking down the street, their eyes meet, and they instantly hit it off? This is not Hollywood. You can't expect a "hi" to lead to a date instantaneously. You need to get yourself in a situation where you interact with women. Join a club, sports team, volunteer, something that forces you to have a conversation about something. Trying to pick up women in random situations just by looking at them is not realistic. You also need to ditch the negative attitude. If making connections with people were easy, no one would be single. You are the only one who can change your circumstances. What you have been trying doesn't work. Try something else. Expand your network of male friends. You could use a wing man. Someone to give you the confidence to approach women in a more effective manner and situation. Perhaps even a dating coach could help you. The world is not against you.
Author Lights Posted September 2, 2008 Author Posted September 2, 2008 You are the one fighting yourself. You have such a negative attitude. You go into a situation thinking "I'll say hi, but I probably won't get a response". You think all women are rude. You expect failure so you get failure...You also need to ditch the negative attitude. I have no problem believing there's a circular effect there regarding some subconscious expectation of what I've encountered over the years. If only I knew how to break the cycle... What kind of girls are you approaching? Where are they when you spout off a random 'hi'? There isn't any particular kind, as far as I can tell. I'm not good at telling someone's age on sight, but I suspect that they're around my age. The rest really is just whether they're around and if I notice them in time. There aren't any other particular identifiable characteristics I can name; I don't have any racial or cultural hangups or anything like that. Locations can vary. Recent such situations included the gym, a newsstand, in a shopping mall, and on the street in a nearby city. Other locations can include bookstores, and coffee shops. How many relationships do you think start from 2 people just walking down the street, their eyes meet, and they instantly hit it off? This is not Hollywood. You can't expect a "hi" to lead to a date instantaneously. That's as it may be, but at the moment it's not even leading to so much as a hi back. Hollywood doesn't that often script scenes like that either. You need to get yourself in a situation where you interact with women. Join a club, sports team, volunteer, something that forces you to have a conversation about something. Trying to pick up women in random situations just by looking at them is not realistic. I've taken the meet-through-activities route before. Unless one is so fortunate that one's preferred such activities put one around women that one is interested in (I'm "cursed" with personal interests that put me almost exclusively around men), that tactic just plain doesn't work; otherwise, spending one's time doing something one is not interested in just to have a hope of women-heavier demographics will simply result in one being bored, impatient, and increasingly angry. I've tread that path before. It's not a satisfying one. If making connections with people were easy, no one would be single. You are the only one who can change your circumstances. What you have been trying doesn't work. Try something else. Expand your network of male friends. You could use a wing man. Someone to give you the confidence to approach women in a more effective manner and situation. Perhaps even a dating coach could help you. I do what I can. I haven't yet found such male friends who I could trust with this who were well-informed enough to help me approach in an effective manner, but I'll do what I can to see if they're out there. I've been seriously considering hiring a dating coach. I'll see what happens. The world is not against you. I only hope.
paddington bear Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 ok, it sounds to me like you do need a dating coach or some such person. You need some honest outside perspective on you. I've been told in the past that I've been very negative about men, that I was the 'frumpy' funny girl, not the sexy girl and as I mentioned above that I act like an invisible person. None of these were nice to hear, but at the same time I'm glad I was told them, without taking too much offence at them, they've helped me figure out small things I can change about myself. Sometimes I think our body language doesn't reflect the true person inside. You say "I haven't yet found such male friends who I could trust with this who were well-informed enough to help me approach in an effective manner". First thing to do, forget about the girls and make an effort to find a couple or close male buddies to hang out with, that way you have someone there you can trust to give you advice, to watch what they are doing differently to you etc etc. More friends = more parties, nights out, meeting more people. Approaching random strangers with a 'hi' is fine, but I suspect some girls are thinking 'why on earth is this guy talking to me, I don't even know him'. Other social situations would be easier and get you into practice.
Author Lights Posted November 17, 2008 Author Posted November 17, 2008 It does not seem to end. Unless my social skills have somehow decayed to some sort of absolute zero (which I suspect is pretty much impossible, as I still have the same capabilities I had before), I can only assume that the local resistance has become overwhelming. I've run clear out of ideas. Absolutely nothing has worked even once in recent memory. I don't know if there's anything left to do, but giving up will not solve the situation either. Are there any men here who have turned this sort of situation around in their lives?
reflecting zen Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Lights I know the situation you’re in. You exist but nobody seems to know you are there. I know this because I am in the same situation. You’ve tried things a couple of times but with no success. It takes a lot more effort and a lot more perseverance than that, to get what you want. The psychologist Albert Ellis in his young age forced himself to approach hundreds of women randomly in a botanical garden (mainly to destroy his anxiety and to build his confidence) only to be rejected hundreds of times. That would be disheartening for anyone, but eventually his confidence grew and his anxiety over rejection disappeared and he got a few dates out of it. The point is you’re going to be rejected (or ignored) in the course of finding someone; this is going to happen heaps. The remedy for this is simple: get over it, forget it ever happened and do it again. This whole thing really brought me down so I went to a shrink. The above is pretty much a compressed version of what I learnt. It was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. You need to challenge your negative feelings and thoughts, you need to negate them yourself or even ignore those thoughts. This takes some practice. I used what I learnt and took up salsa. I would never have done this before, it turned out to be good fun; and yes, I met heaps of girls (they like salsa too). You need to force yourself into these situations. You also seem to reject many suggestions, from what I have read you don’t seem to want to turn things around. I agree with konfuzd, the outcome to that way of thinking will be the status quo I got rejected recently, but I’m not going to get miserable about it. My response to those women who ignore me is that they’re not worth my time anyway. I’ve recently been putting all my energy into self-development (doing what I mentioned earlier, building my career path, getting fit etc etc), because when you do that you build confidence and when that happens you will find Lights that you will become an entirely different person, one who may not be ignored at all Hope this helps in one form or another.
IrishCarBomb Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 Are there any men here who have turned this sort of situation around in their lives? You'll never turn it around until you realize that there is a chance of success. There's an underlying theme in your posts that just feels like you think that it's futile. Further, there will never be any hard evidence or data of your progress. You'll just need to have faith in yourself.
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