Kamille Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 Really? I teach business communications for a major university here in the US and it's my experience that the text and im crowd have horrific writing skills. Most seem to think that internet slang like 'ur,' 'i,' 'ne1,' and the like are acceptable in business/academic writing! Certainly, they are not scoring better in class. The occasional typo aside, I see a high correlation between writing well and thinking well. YMMV. Have you tried using text-typing (what they know) to lead them towards standard english writing? If you read the Ontario report on literacy, that is what they say works best when teaching literacy.
StartingOver07 Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 Have you tried using text-typing (what they know) to lead them towards standard english writing? If you read the Ontario report on literacy, that is what they say works best when teaching literacy. Nope. I am not teaching literacy. I am teaching business communication to college students. If a student wants one-on-one help, I am happy to help, but I have a finite amount of time to get my students to understand the material/concepts they are there to learn, and it is unfair to those who are ready to handle the material for me to back-track to fifth grade or wherever it was that literacy stopped. Don't misunderstand: I think there is a need to teach literacy. But by the time a student is in college, s/he should already be literate. I'm not sure this is a problem everywhere or just in the US, but what is happening here is an insistence that everyone can (and should) go to college. This forces colleges to dumb down materials and lower standards and also erodes the benefit of a BS/BA degree. As a result, many employers now require advanced degrees as "proof" of an educated candidate. The financial burden this places on the middle class is huge. Ooops - sorry for the thread-jack. I will be quiet now!
Kamille Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 Nope. I am not teaching literacy. I am teaching business communication to college students. If a student wants one-on-one help, I am happy to help, but I have a finite amount of time to get my students to understand the material/concepts they are there to learn, and it is unfair to those who are ready to handle the material for me to back-track to fifth grade or wherever it was that literacy stopped. Let me rephrase. Our definitions of literacy simply differ. Have you tried using texting as a learning tool? The way I see a teacher can take two stands on any form of teaching: identify deficits or identify what students bring to the classroom and build from there. I tend to teach from student's capital and it works for me. The fact of the matter is they are literate by the time they reach your classroom: they're text-style literate and it works for them in one area of their life. What they seem to lack is business-professional literacy (hence the growing concept of multi-literacy and media-literacy which is about a lot more then just learning how to write). I'm not sure this is a problem everywhere or just in the US, but what is happening here is an insistence that everyone can (and should) go to college. This forces colleges to dumb down materials and lower standards and also erodes the benefit of a BS/BA degree. As a result, many employers now require advanced degrees as "proof" of an educated candidate. The financial burden this places on the middle class is huge. No I think this is a pretty widespread concern. The fact of the matter is more people are going to college now more then ever and this means colleges no longer cater to 'literate' elites. And, again, people write a lot more today then they ever did (from texting, to emails, to filing out on-line forms, to business writing). Like TBF mentioned, studies can be used to show anything, but we did a little study in my college (I'm referenced so I won't cite) where we compared letters written by secondary school students from the 1950s and letters written today.... Guess who got poorer grades on grammar, syntax and spelling? The kids from the 50s... Most people are surprised to hear this because we all believe that kids today write badly yada yada. Ooops - sorry for the thread-jack. I will be quiet now! I apologize too!
Capricciosa Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 He spelled architects, architehcts (extra "h"). He spelled restaurant, resteraunt. He wrote someones, instead of someone's. What do you think, LS members? Haven't read the whole thread, but these seem like typos to me. And he is not composing his master's thesis, he's writing a quick note. I don't particularly like bad spelling, but these small errors are not unforgivable (and I work in a field were written language is of the utmost importance, by the way).
paddington bear Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves - send him this link and let him figure it out...
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Posted August 13, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves - send him this link and let him figure it out... Thanks PaddingtonBear!
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 15, 2008 Author Posted August 15, 2008 So I kept emailing Mr. Poor Speller, and I was wondering when he would ever get around to asking me to do something. Finally, he did. In the process he gave me his email address, which was his name + yahoo.com. So of COURSE I googled him..... It was interesting! First of all, he is a management consultant and a professor at a local, very highly regarded university. I'm sure he pays more attention to his spelling at school, one would hope. Then I found a lot of pictures. If you recall, I could barely see him in his photo. Well, he's no Brad Pitt, but he's decently attractive. I don't think Brad Pitt or anyone in his league would be online anyway After that I found a YouTube entry for him. It was very revealing. He's obviously a pretty funny guy, which rates highly with me. Lastly, it looks like a close relative if his is a tranny. Let's hope he isn't one also. That will be a whole new thread.
Kamille Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 First of all, he is a management consultant and a professor at a local, very highly regarded university. I'm sure he pays more attention to his spelling at school, one would hope. I will say this in defense of Professors' bad spelling: they write a gazillion emails a day, which usually mean they can't proofread them all - and most usually type a mile a minute. I know. It's sad. Professors should be role-models. But I was a sessional professor, and let me tell you - the amount of emails: INSANE! Then you add in tests, notes, etc... Really, the guy spends his whole day writing. We can all wish he would pay more attention to it, but perhaps he has other things to think of.
Trialbyfire Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 So I kept emailing Mr. Poor Speller, and I was wondering when he would ever get around to asking me to do something. Finally, he did. In the process he gave me his email address, which was his name + yahoo.com. So of COURSE I googled him..... It was interesting! First of all, he is a management consultant and a professor at a local, very highly regarded university. I'm sure he pays more attention to his spelling at school, one would hope. Then I found a lot of pictures. If you recall, I could barely see him in his photo. Well, he's no Brad Pitt, but he's decently attractive. I don't think Brad Pitt or anyone in his league would be online anyway After that I found a YouTube entry for him. It was very revealing. He's obviously a pretty funny guy, which rates highly with me. Lastly, it looks like a close relative if his is a tranny. Let's hope he isn't one also. That will be a whole new thread. Something's not right. No professor would spell restaurant the way he did.
Kamille Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Something's not right. No professor would spell restaurant the way he did. Professors are hired first and foremost for their expertise, not their writing skills. He's a business consultant, not a translator.
Trialbyfire Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Professors are hired first and foremost for their expertise, not their writing skills. He's a business consultant, not a translator. If English is his second language, this would be understandable. Beyond that, it makes no sense. After "X" number of years in school, you do learn the basics which includes the word restaurant...
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 16, 2008 Author Posted August 16, 2008 If English is his second language, this would be understandable. Beyond that, it makes no sense. After "X" number of years in school, you do learn the basics which includes the word restaurant... The word restaurant is indeed basic. That clearly was not a typo. I have to admit I was thrown by that one too. I do understand that if you are shooting off 100 emails a day that perhaps errors could occur with some regularity. BTW, his expertise is a math related subject
paddington bear Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 I dunno, restaurant always gets me...! Some people are just too lazy to use spell-checker - you've got the low down on him now, so he's not stupid. Maybe later when you're dating you can say 'Ha ha! Remember the time we nearly didn't meet because of your appalling spelling?' Perhaps he's dyslexic? I know a lot of university educated people who are dreadful spellers because of this.
sfsassy Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 I dunno, restaurant always gets me...! Some people are just too lazy to use spell-checker - you've got the low down on him now, so he's not stupid. Maybe later when you're dating you can say 'Ha ha! Remember the time we nearly didn't meet because of your appalling spelling?' Perhaps he's dyslexic? I know a lot of university educated people who are dreadful spellers because of this. Like me! However, get me talking to someone, and people will say how cogent, organized I am. I spell check email, so I don't have this issue. Truly a godsend, and people don't make yet another snap judgeent about me, lol. I think I would be more worried about whether he took this seriously, as opposed to whether he iis intelligent. When I IM or text, i consider that ore talking, so I don't spell check then, but do warn people. There is only one friend who calls me on it.
pandagirl Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 OK, I am going through a similar problem. I've been emailing back and forth this guy from a dating site. His spelling is good, but he doesn't use apostrophes and is inconsistent with capitalizing words. For instance, he'll write something like: "i just got back from italy. Have you been there before?" And write, "wasnt" and "isnt." I actually could overlook a typo or two, but...ack. This drives me nuts!
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 OK, I am going through a similar problem. I've been emailing back and forth this guy from a dating site. His spelling is good, but he doesn't use apostrophes and is inconsistent with capitalizing words. For instance, he'll write something like: "i just got back from italy. Have you been there before?" And write, "wasnt" and "isnt." I actually could overlook a typo or two, but...ack. This drives me nuts! Someone understands
bigmanpayne Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 OK, I am going through a similar problem. I've been emailing back and forth this guy from a dating site. His spelling is good, but he doesn't use apostrophes and is inconsistent with capitalizing words. For instance, he'll write something like: "i just got back from italy. Have you been there before?" And write, "wasnt" and "isnt." I actually could overlook a typo or two, but...ack. This drives me nuts! geez. this means nothing. i use all lowercase and no apostrophes at all. i am educated, even write a decent blog. i like to be relaxed when emailing or posting on a message board. plus it is kinda unique. doesnt mean anything to me. if it bugs you so much you should ask him why he does it and see what he says. typing this way is just relaxing. i dont like to be proper unless i have too.
pandagirl Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 All lowercase doesn't bother me either, neither does the occasional misspelling (and I'm an editor by profession!). What bothers me is he is inconsistent. Sometimes he'll capitalize the first word of a sentence, and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he typed "i" and other times "I." And he didn't capitalize proper nouns. Sorry, I feel like a total jerk for being bothered by this, but I feel -- and I'm going to come off sounding like a complete snobby a-hole -- someone who is well educated wouldn't write an email like this.
bigmanpayne Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 All lowercase doesn't bother me either, neither does the occasional misspelling (and I'm an editor by profession!). What bothers me is he is inconsistent. Sometimes he'll capitalize the first word of a sentence, and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he typed "i" and other times "I." And he didn't capitalize proper nouns. Sorry, I feel like a total jerk for being bothered by this, but I feel -- and I'm going to come off sounding like a complete snobby a-hole -- someone who is well educated wouldn't write an email like this. the only time i am inconsistent is when i type in microsoft word. if i am going to send a long email and i know ahead of time, i will type it in microsoft word first then copy and paste it to the email. the program capitalizes i automatically and capitalizes the first word of a sentence automatically. see no big deal. email should be casual, why are there rules. is his email being turned in for a grade? if so, you should consider grading on a curve.
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 the only time i am inconsistent is when i type in microsoft word. if i am going to send a long email and i know ahead of time, i will type it in microsoft word first then copy and paste it to the email. the program capitalizes i automatically and capitalizes the first word of a sentence automatically. see no big deal. email should be casual, why are there rules. is his email being turned in for a grade? if so, you should consider grading on a curve. Grade: F. Just kidding BigMan, I find it difficult to read when people break the "rules". Spelling, punctuation, and grammar give some consistency to language. I'm sure you have some very thoughtful and interesting work on your blog, but if people get frustrated reading it, then they will never get to enjoy your writing. Just a thought.
Prodigal Princess Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 I was all fired up and ready to spew vitriol on this thread, but I have to say that TBF took the words out of my mouth (and wrote them in a much more eloquent way, too). I am part of the Grammar Gestapo, and consider rampant spelling mistakes a dealbreaker. No one uses perfect grammar all the time, but there is a higher onus on the writer to make an effort when communicating with a potential date. My alarm bells are ringing with this one Cherry, but good luck and keep us updated.
bigmanpayne Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Grade: F. Just kidding BigMan, I find it difficult to read when people break the "rules". Spelling, punctuation, and grammar give some consistency to language. I'm sure you have some very thoughtful and interesting work on your blog, but if people get frustrated reading it, then they will never get to enjoy your writing. Just a thought. i dont write like this on the blog... thats the point. i write properly when i have too. doing message board posts and casual emails are differnet, i like to just keep it casual - lowercase and smooth. the point is i can be good when i have too, but i also like to be different and casual which doesnt reflect my intelligence... get it?
Author Cherry Blossom 35 Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 i dont write like this on the blog... thats the point. i write properly when i have too. doing message board posts and casual emails are differnet, i like to just keep it casual - lowercase and smooth. the point is i can be good when i have too, but i also like to be different and casual which doesnt reflect my intelligence... get it? I get it Look at the scenario, though. When you are trying to get to know someone in a dating situation, aren't you trying to put your best foot forward? If all you have for communication is the written word, wouldn't you want to use it to your advantage? I would think that one would want to spell correctly, and use correct grammar while being witty and clever at the same time. If I have 20 messages in my inbox, I need some way to sort through them. Who stands out?
bigmanpayne Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 I was all fired up and ready to spew vitriol on this thread, but I have to say that TBF took the words out of my mouth (and wrote them in a much more eloquent way, too). I am part of the Grammar Gestapo, and consider rampant spelling mistakes a dealbreaker. No one uses perfect grammar all the time, but there is a higher onus on the writer to make an effort when communicating with a potential date. My alarm bells are ringing with this one Cherry, but good luck and keep us updated. no disrepect but i find that to be so stupid. you can miss out on a really compatible person by simply judging them by their spelling in emails or because they use lowercase on all words. that makes no sense to me. it's just like someone saying Jay-Z isn't a smart business man because he is a rapper who uses incorrect grammer and slang in his songs. just because he does that doesnt mean that he isnt a better business man than Donald Trump, who has filed multiple bankruptcies but uses proper english and doesnt rap about "Big Pimpin." sometimes we have to be smart enough to look past petty prejudices (look up the word, it has nothing to do with race in this instance) and actually look at the person. what if the guy you are now rejecting is a good-looking millionaire who would treat you right for the rest of your life. you are seriously telling me that because he types in lowercase or misspells some words you will just throw all of that away? emailing a potential date is not a job interview. if you are sending a resume, you should be professional - trying to get a date is different.
Prodigal Princess Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 no disrepect but i find that to be so stupid. you can miss out on a really compatible person by simply judging them by their spelling in emails or because they use lowercase on all words. that makes no sense to me. it's just like someone saying Jay-Z isn't a smart business man because he is a rapper who uses incorrect grammer and slang in his songs. just because he does that doesnt mean that he isnt a better business man than Donald Trump, who has filed multiple bankruptcies but uses proper english and doesnt rap about "Big Pimpin." sometimes we have to be smart enough to look past petty prejudices (look up the word, it has nothing to do with race in this instance) and actually look at the person. what if the guy you are now rejecting is a good-looking millionaire who would treat you right for the rest of your life. you are seriously telling me that because he types in lowercase or misspells some words you will just throw all of that away? emailing a potential date is not a job interview. if you are sending a resume, you should be professional - trying to get a date is different. There is no right or wrong here. I just highly value good grammar. I don't equate someone's ability to spell with their ability to earn a living; quite frankly I could not care less whether my potential dates are millionaires or on struggle street. I just doubt I would have much in common with someone who doesn't respect syntax.
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