JackJack Posted August 9, 2008 Posted August 9, 2008 "I said...I really don't know if there is anything you can do." "I'm not very forgiving,usually." Sounds like your mind is pretty much made up. Why put off what it is it seems you want to do then? you said something about leaving for a few days, I'm assuming to clear your head? Since you say she seems pretty remorseful do you feel its worth another shot to try? Or would you rather just bring it all to an end? What she did was NOT right, I'll agree on that, but it takes two to make or break a marriage, so obviously she felt something was lacking, maybe talk with her about what that was.
Author Gzus Posted August 9, 2008 Author Posted August 9, 2008 See thats the thing, Jack.. she says she is so happy and that i give her plenty of attention, tell her she's beautiful all the time and we go out on dates often and always have great sex (about every nite until lately).. I keep saying 'what do you think you were lacking that this guy provided?' -- she says nothing you are very attentive to me, it was 'just extra attention and making me feel good about myself and desireable.. ' Nothing Ive found to date suggests anything she told me (once she came clean) wasnt true. I found that she had deleted his contact info and all messages before I confronted her, which suggests she was fine to end it since she knew I was suspicious. I really don't know if IM chat that went too far is worth a 4 year union and destroying my children's home life.. know what I mean? Im starting to get to a point where I think I can come to terms and deal with it. I stopped being a dick to her and just told her I loved her and would try to work past it. kissing is our real intimate thing and I have not kissed her since I found out. i know she is hurt by that and she says she is so ashamed and humiliated at the way I look at her now. And the tatt I once loved is now a permanent reminder of this bull****. I know she puts up with alot of my **** (smoking erb every nite and taking painkillers) as well.. Ive probably had some inappropriate chat and online contact with women during our marriage, but that doesnt mean I was actually willing to make it physical. But then, my chats didnt go on a month either. I really in my heart dont think she had any intention of making it physical>... if so, she would not have invited my sis in law, she wouldve just gone alone and stayed with 'ella'.
imagine Posted August 9, 2008 Posted August 9, 2008 Trust is a big deal. I've read about posters here that became insecure about their relationship, disinvested and were exposed to having an affair themselves. I just recently read that there were ten levels of interaction till a PA ensues. The first three levels may not even alert the person involved that there is inappropriate behaviour. I will try to find that post again. Clear the air. Set boundaries. Take extraordinary precautions - monitor, spot check, GPS tracker on her phone. Do not let her see this site because it will give her a heads up. Have a polygraph test taken if necessary. What if she is genuine and does check out. You will have then done great damage to the family by your outbursts and separation from them. Be calm and businesslike. Make sure that you focus on the marriage as your prime objective. Not on your personal outrage. Maybe you would like to check out "How to affair proof your marriage". Google marriage builders.
Author Gzus Posted August 9, 2008 Author Posted August 9, 2008 you know, Ive thought about all that. So far, what I have checked, (without her knowledge) is consistent with what she's told me. I really am not the type of person to 'spy' on my wife and I think if you feel you have to do that all the time, you arent in a good marriage. Our marriage has been amazing, a real 'true love' story.. shes told too many people how much she loves our relationship and how happy she is. I know in her heart, she loves me more than anything and is sick over what she's done. I think if I keep snooping and being a dick, its only going to make this uglier and uglier and may cause much more damage.. For the sake of my sanity and my kids and marriage, Im going to forgive her, quit talking about it and very soon we will go get the tatt together she wanted to do before all this happened. that will give us a new start. I did set boundaries and told her if anything like this ever happened again, i would be gone, no questions. I don't think she'll ever do anything like this again. She's pretty much a computer n00b. anyway, thanks for the invaluable advice. In your mind, did my wife 'cheat' or was this 'not cheating but close' or what?
PandorasBox Posted August 9, 2008 Posted August 9, 2008 "I've probably had some inappropriate chat and online contact with women during our marriage, but that doesn't mean I was actually going to make it physical." Did your wife know about this? Maybe things are even and you both can move forward and focus on your marriage more? I would suggest marriage counseling and see if that helps any.
vertigocidic Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 I am terribly sorry for hearing all of this. I feel sorry for you as I do feel sorry for your wife. I do not think she's done anything wrong, and I think you may have taken this a bit too far. However, since I do not know you or your true nature of your relationship with her behind closed doors, I will spare the crictism and instead, give you some of my best wishes that everything will heal soon. Even though we love someone, they have outside interests- Families, friends, jobs, hobbies, etc. I understand if they had a romantic/sexual history together, but that's all they are- "Tattoo buds". The flirting talk, now that's kinda hurtful, coming from your wife. I would be just as angry and heartbroken if my boyfriend "flirted" with someone of the opposite sex. Maybe she really did not see that it would hurt you, but that she does see, it hurts her, and so she cries. You've described that you two have outgoing personalities- You joke with others, you party, double date, etc. So she thought, "Hmm. I suppose this won't be different!" and was wrong. Please forgive her! You two sound like the ideal perfect couple, the attractive husband and the sympathetic wife with kids. I LOVE people with tattoos/piercings, so I really cannot blame your wife lol. But what she did was wrong... but she should be forgiven. That is what love is about. The ability to not keep a list of wrongdoings of the past.
Author Gzus Posted August 10, 2008 Author Posted August 10, 2008 Update (and conclusion, hopefully) So yesterday we have one more intense talk in the am.. then my mom keeps the kids and she and I go to the wedding together. The whole video montage at the beginning of the wedding she was half in tears. she and I saw lots of married couples who are friends of ours and I think it was great for us. We come home, watch movies together and fall asleep.. we both wake up about 2 am desiring each other and have sex all night.. about 5 am, the guy she was messaging's wife calls her phone. I listened to the two of them talk for a while and my wife was telling her what happened. She kept saying she was so sorry and it was only chat, that there were never any plans to make anything physical happen. The wife has been married to him 4 months.. my wife said 'I really hope you all are going to be ok .. and the wife says "well, we're not, because you arent the only one.. it seems this is a little problem of his".. So then I ask my wife for the phone and I talk to her for a while. She tells me she busted him through the phone bill, that there were 2 calls from him to her and she was suspicious of something. then she saw the yahoo IM I sent him. So he's apparently about to lose his wife of 4 months and she of course was devastated. Of course my wife now feels like a total idiot.. she said ' I am so sorry I did this to us and put us in this place.. I promise you, I will never do anything like this again, you are my life and I thought I was going to lose you".. Anyway, this hasnt ended up good for us, but I can tell you we both have tremendously increased desire, intimacy and passion for each other. I have told her she is mine, that Im not sharing her, even a little bit, with anyone. I was honest with her about my feelings and it was good to hear from this woman she knew they had not been physical when she got her first tatt. (because he had been w/his wife all that weekend) It made me believe my wife when she came clean. I hope this is the last you'll have to hear of us.. Trying to move on.
theobserver Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Your wife has hopefulyl learned from this as should you. You have forgiven her this time and hopefully an incident like this will not happen again . She has seen first hand the consequences as the OM is now suffering proof this is not just "harmless fun for attention" not to mention his wife hinting he's done this before so divorce or/and public humiliation is on the way. If this does happen again don't blink and file for divorce my friend. However I honestly hope this was just a lapse in judgement and you can both work on the relationship again. I too hope to not see you back here.
GlassWindow Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 It sounds like your wife got caught up without fully realizing the implications it could have on the marriage...You should consider yourself lucky for "catching" this so early on. Honestly? Who knows where it might have lead to... But it does sound like she realizes her mistakes in stepping out, even just for "chatting," so it's good that you are able to accept that and move on. p.s. you admitted to "inappropriate" contact - so now you see how it feels, I'm guessing you'll never step out like that, either! **I wish you two the best of luck!
Author Gzus Posted August 11, 2008 Author Posted August 11, 2008 I really appreciate all the responses.. I dont, for the life of me, believe she would have actually physically cheated. But I think the chat and being hit on/complimented by another man (married, to boot) was a very exciting feeling for her. I think this may have something to do with Karma, so I could 'see how it feels'.. and both of us have agreed to let it make us stronger and closer. We both know we want to be together for life. Thanks everyone
Author Gzus Posted August 12, 2008 Author Posted August 12, 2008 hopefully the last two days, we've never been closer.
orangesean Posted August 12, 2008 Posted August 12, 2008 Alternatively you can go to program files in explorer, then trillian, then default, then logs. Depending on what client she's using you'll find it in the next upcoming folders. The log with him will be with his username as a .log file. Then just open it with notepad. You may want to save or copy this or just double check. Like I said, you can read the chat logs without having to log into her username. And I think what she did is "cheating" per say, but it really just depends how "inappropriate" these conversations she had were. There's really no way to know unless you check the logs or she is completely honest. What may be innocent flirting to some may be all out cheating to others. It's your decision on what you see and how it makes you feel. It's sort of alarming you've also had "inappropriate" conversations with other women online but it depends if you are just saying this to rationalize her behavior as okay (assuming it is not okay) or have you also done behavior she would consider cheating? All this stuff is tricky and it's best just to avoid the situations altogether until they get worse.
Author Gzus Posted August 12, 2008 Author Posted August 12, 2008 sean, good points. You know, maybe its just karma. I never did anything physical with any girls and didnt carry on long term internet relationships. But kind of like 'you get what you give' huh. I think my wife was a bit naiive and got carried away by the ego trip. Its normal and human beings obviously like that. I guess the thing for me regarding chat logs is this - I am choosing to believe her, if I read that ****, its just going to cause both of us more pain and trouble for our marriage and drag this out. Everything my wife told me since coming clean about this has checked out (trillian, OM's wife's claims she was with him all weekend and only 1 or 2 phone calls, he told his wife similar things 'it was only chat, no plans to meet, etc, etc) so I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt and let it go, for the sake of our relationship and kids. Believe me though, I am keeping a close eye and will be out like a mofo if anything like this happens again. And I will never talk to girls online again either. She knows this and would never risk it again, I don't think. At the time, I really don't think she considered it cheating, I think she thought it was 'safe flirting' because it was only chat and not planning to make it physical. I think she lied because she did not want to hurt my feelings and was planning to quit talking to him anyway. Ive done similiar things, so I see what she's saying. I admitted that to her when we talked about all this. So here's to hoping this is the last time we'll ever see anything like this..
Al_Bundy Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Here were my main reasons for being suspicious - *his number in her phone with only the first letter of his name *they are myspace friends *he did her tattoo and she is going back to get it finished *Ive seen her chat with him a couple times *he's a 'tattoo' guy That and there is absolutely no reason she should be chatting with him on myspace or any other space. She should be getting tats from him and thats it. And actually, I'd dump her if she kept going back to him now. Reasons for believing her - *shes going to get the tat finished with my sis in law *shes never been untrustworthy Not that you know of. all cheaters are trustworthy until they are caught. *no change in affection or her exercise routine *weve had a new level of great sex for the past couple months since she went off birth control (im getting a vas soon) On birth control, she didnt have her usual libido. Good, make sure she stays off BC and you get that vas. that way if she winds up pregnant, then you'll know. *undying love for our babies and closeness of our family (my brothers & wives, her sisters and husband, my mom, cousin and aunts all go to movies occasionaly, eat dinner, etc. My xW had all that too. It means absolutely nothing. Any thoughts from you all? Yes, you don't find it funny that she has to go all that way for a tat? And exchanges info with a guy she just met? i'd say she is messing around. She plans on going back here and there right? Maybe you should go with next time. Let me guess, she makes you stay home and watch the kids when she goes off like this, right?
Al_Bundy Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 ok, so heres what happened: Today when I notice the guy's page down I text her and tell her what a strange coincidence. Says she has no idea and hasnt talked to him since I told her my feelings on Wed. So finally, I say 'you have to tell me the extent of the communication or we won't be able to put this behind us'.. I said there are just too many coincidences and my gut is telling me something's up.. So she's quiet for a few seconds and says 'there were inappropriate messages between us' Really? Surely she gests? Trust me, there is more to it than that if she goes to see him and plans on going back. It aint just for tattoos. She can get that done locally. I said 'more than you told me about' she says 'no, I only talked to him once or twice a week but sometimes it was inappropriate. So she's bawling and saying shes so sorry and just the ego boost felt good; that she never had any intention of doing anything physical or meeting up. Sure, thats only why she is going back to see him. now that she has had inappropriate contact with him, she needs to cut him out completely. going back to see him for whatever reason is now inappropriate and disrespectful to you. It was just flirty talk, she says. Of course, but how do I know that now that she's lied to me about the communication at first? She has been in here crying most of the day doing flower arrangements for a wedding tomorrow.. she said she cannot believe she did that and hates that I look at her differently Too bad. She better fix it then instead of continuing to go back and see him. and hates that it is now a part of our history. She said she didnt tell me at first because it really wasnt a big deal from her view (he means nothing to her), that she intended to totally break off contact and she wanted to avoid damaging what we have now that she knew she would not be contacting him again. She says 'I have everything I want, and I am so happy with my life, I have no idea why I talked to him like that'.. I asked her about the nature of the chat and she said 'flirty with innuendos' not outright 'sex talk'. But of course, she could be 'sparing' me more hurt at this point, i really don't know. So we are damaged, I look at her differently now and its going to take some time to heal. The good thing is, she's genuinely scared to death, feels like **** about it and can't believe she did this to our heretofore 'perfect' relationship. And I really don't think she did anything physical with him or was going to. But I could be wrong. She said she would never contact him or any other guys like that again and won't ever again. Does that also mean outings with her sister's to that town are out now? Anyway, I think she's remorseful and totally sorry. God ****ing dammit Only time will tell, but don't sit by and babysit your kids like a fool so she can take advantage of you so she can have her girls nights out. Frankly, as far as I'd be concerned, the girls night out thing would come to a halt, or at least make it a once in a blue moon thing. Because I gather she goes out quite a bit from the way you talk.
sandrawg Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Im starting to get to a point where I think I can come to terms and deal with it. I stopped being a dick to her and just told her I loved her and would try to work past it. kissing is our real intimate thing and I have not kissed her since I found out. i know she is hurt by that and she says she is so ashamed and humiliated at the way I look at her now. And the tatt I once loved is now a permanent reminder of this bull****. I know she puts up with alot of my **** (smoking erb every nite and taking painkillers) as well.. Ive probably had some inappropriate chat and online contact with women during our marriage, but that doesnt mean I was actually willing to make it physical. But then, my chats didnt go on a month either. Whoa whoa whoa. YOU had inappropriate chat and online contact??? Now the truth comes out. Well, I'm sorry but this makes you a bit of a hypocrite. Granted, your wife had inappropriate conversations with someone local. But if it didn't manifest into anything physical, then it's not all that different than what you did, now is it? Does your wife know about what you did? Sounds like you BOTH need to confess and talk and engage in some forgiveness and healing. You have two kids and 4 yrs invested. IMO, not knowing all the details of your marriage, of course, this incident alone is not enough to toss all that away. I caught my ex-h engaging in cybersex with a couple of women, early into our marriage. I didn't go ballistic, I just asked him why he felt led to do it. I asked him if there was something he wasn't getting from me, and told him I was more than willing to provide it. He cried, apologized...we worked through it. He didn't do it again. Yes, we divorced, but it was over something completely different.
Author Gzus Posted September 26, 2008 Author Posted September 26, 2008 Nah, she didnt do the online thing with anyone local. I didnt either. But the reason hers was worse (and we've both agreed on this) is because she became smitten by her ex boyfriend and let the online relationship grow to that point over the course of a month. She thought she had more of a 'connection' with him, blah blah. But she immediately cut it off and did not want to risk our marriage over it. I had been emailing a woman off and on (couple times a month, maybe) and never had any real feelings. Just ego strokes. Anyway, she and i have total transparency now, 100% better, dirtier sex and much more honesty.
Author Gzus Posted September 29, 2008 Author Posted September 29, 2008 Alright. So there are some things I need advice on now. I am wondering if Im crazy. Since the whole thing, I have let her continue minimal contact with him as long as she forwards me the messages. I dont want her to resent me and like I said, Im a pretty confident and comfortable guy. Plus, he and I have become friends. She has told me nonstop she totally wants me, our marriage and is committed to it. However, recently her MC with him has begun to bother me and I dont know why. I have 'picked' at her a little bit about it and brought up what she did a month and a half ago a few times- (this is so totally not me). When I do this, she gets upset, angry and emotional and says 'please dont put me through this, I am totally committed to you and would never do anything to risk our marriage. I know I ****ed up, but its behind us and we got a tattoo as a permanent symbol of our new start'. Then she isnt affectionate to me and we seem miles apart for a day or two. She says this is because when I make her feel bad like that she cannot just turn off those feelings and go back to being all cuddly with me. I get that. What I dont get is why I am worked up over this and cant just let it go and focus on our new start. I really dont think she's doing anything inappropriate at this point and I think she truly wants to be with me and fix things. But for some reason I cant seem to just 'drop it' and I may be killing my relationship/marriage. Can anyone help me out?
Bryanp Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Are you crazy? You say it is acceptable for her to continue to stay in contact with this other guy because you do not want to be seen as controlling? Are you out of your mind? A marriage and a relationship is between two people and not three. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions are speaking volume. She is making a fool out of you and you are allowing it. Unbelievable!
Author Gzus Posted September 29, 2008 Author Posted September 29, 2008 Not quite dude. Maybe Im just a little more self confident and secure than you would be in this situation. She talks to him like once or twice a week and it is typical bull**** - 'hey how is the family' = 'good hows yours' 'same ole same ole', etc. She forwards me any messages he sends her and any she replies to (her choice, not mine). I checked the phone bills and there are no texts/phone numbers to him. I am confident she's not doing anything behind my back, because she knows I would leave her instantly if she did. And we have grown much closer over the past month. But today she and I argued because even this limited contact stuff started to bother me - I dont fully trust her and that is the problem (even though she's not done anything secretive since) She said 'i should have done this from the get go' (deleted him). but in all fairness, I didnt want that at the beginning and thought I would be ok with it. But today it got bad (my feelings), so she deleted him from myspace and told him in an email she could not talk to him anymore and wished him luck. Here is the message: "I wanted to let you know that despite our best attempts to be ok with recent events we are still running in to issues. It's not an easy thing to forget, even more difficult the originally thought. So I have made the decision to cut all ties with you for the betterment of my marriage. It seems to be a constant reminder for him seeing you on myspace. I can tell it bothers him still even though he knows there is nothing going on. He doesn't want me to delete you because he likes you and wants to be ok with our friendship. But we are only human it is completely understandable. I love him and want him to feel secure in that love. I apologize for all the trouble I put you through. You have been a good friend to me. I wish you all the best in life" See, at first, the whole thing kinda turned me on (I know, sick). He lives so far away there's no way they've met or anything. And she's been totally transparent with me, I have her MS password, email account passwords, facebook, craigslist, etc. I know she's not done anything inappropriate. But just any contact bothers me at this point, even though I didnt want to be 'that' guy. (controlling, jealous type and never have been) So she's cut it all off as of today and we will try to rebuild. She is mad that I keep bringing up what she did / said and hurt and says it sabotages our ability to move on, which I agree with. Despite my best efforts and desire to do so, I feel like I dont completely trust her after what happened. So that hurts her too. And I dont want to keep bringing that **** up, but sometimes feelings are overwhelming. Anyway, we'll see if we can rebuild. If not, there are more fish in the sea. There are plenty of women interested in me if my wife and I cant fix things. And my wife is hot as hell, so I dont think either of us would have trouble moving on. But that is not what either of us wants right now.
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