New here, need input..

[Gzus]

I hesitated to jump in here, but I wanted to see your opinions on my situation.

 

My wife and I have been married 4 and a half years and have two daughters, age 4 and 2. My wife stays home and keeps them and the nieces/nephews as a sort of 'family day care'. We have always been madly in love and still are and we've always had 100% trust in each other.

 

Here's the situation -

 

My wife and I each have a tattoo. Recently she went to another town 4 hrs away to visit her longtime friend 'ella' and got a 2nd one that is just beautiful. Ella then came back a week or two later and stayed a few days with us. My wife really likes 'tattoo guys' and has always been upfront with me about it. I recently saw her on myspace talking to the guy who did her tattoo. Ive seen her on there a couple times talking to him and she's never made an attempt to close windows down or anything when I walk into the room.

The tattoo was not finished the first time she went, so her and my sis in law are going back to stay with Ella and get it finished in a couple weeks. My sis in law and her are good friends and are getting a tat together.

 

So last night, I tell her some things have been bothering me - like, Ive seen her chatting this guy up on myspace, she went to his town and is going back, plus he did her tattoo and she loves it. We talked about online emotional affairs and flirting and what we thought about each other doing it. I asked her if she had any kind relationship with the guy and she said no, that she only talked to him a time or two a week about finishing her tattoo and designs for a new one. She assured me I had nothing to worry about and we dropped it. Both of us went to bed feeling a little weird, as it is the first time the purity of our relationship has ever been questioned by either one of us. I should also say this guy recently got married.

 

When she goes to sleep before me, I usually get up and browse with her laptop for a while. Being curious, I logged into her account and read her myspace email. There was 1 message from him a week ago saying 'Umm, Im on IM, where r u?' Nothing she sent was incriminating, I only saw one or two messages exchanged and they were soley tattoo related. The inbox went back several months and didnt look like anything was deleted. I felt better but didnt log into her main email acct. (didnt have the pw)

 

So this morning, I see her phone laying there and I pick it up. I check for names and see the first letter of his name in her phone and it was undoubtedly a phone number from his area code. I got pissed and told her these things basically confirmed to me she had some kind of relationship with this guy. She said I have to let them know when Im coming down and talk to them to set appointments. I did not check if it was their business number or his cell, but I said then why did you only put the first letter of his name in there? Its indicative of hiding something. She said no I was in a hurry when I saved it. Then I went to work with a sick feeling in my gut. I had to take my daughter to the Dr and I brought her home at lunch. My sis in law was there.

 

My wife took me outside, apologized for giving me any reasons to be nervous. She kissed and hugged me and said she was totally committed to our relationship and would never have an affair. She seemed a little shaken and sad that I questioned her about him, because I have never done that before and never had a reason. I told her if the trust was gone so was our relationship and if something was going on, I wanted her to tell me and not find out some other way. She assured me there was nothing to worry about and said she loved me. She deleted his contact from her phone. She said she would drop her myspace page and not IM people anymore and would not go to this town. I dont want her to do that, because she is with only kids all day and needs an outlet. She loved her tattoo and I want her to get it finished. Plus she is going with my brother's wife. Neither of us are jealous people. We both have outgoing personalities and playfully flirt with friends when we double date and things and never get mad or take it too far.

 

Now before I said anything about all this yesterday, as soon as I got home from work she excitedly came up to me and wanted she and I to go tomorrow to get a tattoo together. This tattoo is the first letter of every word in the chorus of our 'song' when we met. We have it ingraved in the inside of our wedding bands.

 

When we talked at lunch, she said lets go get the tattoo tomorrow and make it a new start for us and put this behind us. We hugged and kissed and I went back to work.

 

We were a 'love at first sight' couple, and 'knew' each other were the ones. I met her on vacation and a few months later, she moved to my state and we lived togther and got married.

 

So what do you all make of this? Anything? Nothing? Something? Should I be concerned??

 

Here were my main reasons for being suspicious -

 

*his number in her phone with only the first letter of his name

*they are myspace friends

*he did her tattoo and she is going back to get it finished

*Ive seen her chat with him a couple times

*he's a 'tattoo' guy

 

Reasons for believing her -

 

*shes going to get the tat finished with my sis in law

*shes never been untrustworthy

*no change in affection or her exercise routine

*weve had a new level of great sex for the past couple months since she went off birth control (im getting a vas soon) On birth control, she didnt have her usual libido.

*undying love for our babies and closeness of our family (my brothers & wives, her sisters and husband, my mom, cousin and aunts all go to movies occasionaly, eat dinner, etc.

 

 

Any thoughts from you all?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Personally, I would believe her and let it go. Is there anything in particular that is making you feel so insecure? How do you feel about yourself right now and where you are in life?

 

Also, there is enough stuff to just kind of keep an eye on her. Nothing serious, but just don't be stupid. Show her lots of good attention.

[orangesean]

Yeah, I think personally you should believe her. I think there is a SLIGHT chance she MAY have gotten a little carried away talking to him, but...

 

Like I've seen in so many other threads, usually your spouse will get super defensive and angry if something is going on.

 

She reacted sad and feels upset she may have breached trust. In fact she apologized trust and seems to be attempting to create a new bond with you as shown with wanting a shared tattoo. She sounds like a good woman.

 

But then again if there are any other problems or information you are holding back about events before you may want to spill them. Usually someone will snoop with reason.

[citizen67]

I have put someone's 1st initial only in my phone b/c I was in a rush - its really not that suspicious - you sound like you have a great relationship don't screw it up w/ unjustified jealousy IMO

[Gzus]

Good advice from everyone. she went out tonight with her sisters and I couldnt resist logging back on her laptop and checking trillian. He's the only friend she's got on there.

 

Should I look at the phone bill long distance calls from the past month or two? All 8 pages of the bill seem to be there, but there are not long distance logs included.

 

Anyway, just enough to make me nervous, not enough to confirm anything. I would like to ask her why he's on her trillian, but probably wouldn't be a good idea.

 

We talked later tonight and had sex, she told me I had nothing to worry about and came home early from rehearsal dinner to be with me.. so Im thinking Im alright here. I guess we'll see.

[KinAZ]

I don't think that's enough to go on at all. I don't think there is anything remotely suspicious about this either. I have also saved one letter of a name more than a few times when I was in a hurry, especially if it was just there temporarily.

 

The guy who did one of my tattoos is on my myspace as well. I have spoken with him about fixing a tattoo for me on myspace, instead of just calling, because it's some times easier for me. So, to me, it seems totally innocent.

 

DON'T go checking through the phone bills! Honestly, I think you should realize that you're making a huge deal out of nothing, and let it go. Don't indulge the suspicion, because if ever your insecurity (and that's all this is) leads you to wonder again, you don't need to be going through everything you can think of just to put your mind at ease. You need to just ACCEPT the fact that there was nothing honestly suspicious about this, and refuse to feed the beast.

 

I'm hearing you talk about this man having tattoos, and maybe that's the issue you're having. The ONLY thing here that anyone might find questionable is that one letter entry on the phone, but that in and of itself is not enough to cause panic. Changes in behavior and attitudes are the things to look out for.

 

You seem to have a good thing going here. Don't let your jealousy or insecurities throw a wrench in it!

[blair08]

This is just my opinon, and you can do what you will with it. I think if he is the one that gave her the tattoo, then he should be just that.

 

What is really her point in talking with him? If she wants to discusss tats, doesn't she have firends who are girls that have any? You already said he was looking for her on IM.

 

I'm not saying you should be overly suspcious, I'm just saying he gave her a tat, and really there should be no other reasons for them to converse so much.

[Gzus]

KinAZ, maybe youre right. Thanks for your comments, Blair. She says they talk about once a week, that they made friends when he did her tattoo and have talked about her coming back to finish it and maybe do a 2nd in the future.

 

Look, I dont give a **** about a guy with Tattoos. I've lived way harder than her (im 34, shes 27)and have many friends with tatts - that doesnt bother me. Im super fit for my age, do 100s of push ups and crunches every morning. I play competitive soccer with college age guys and kick ass. I feel good about myself, Its nothing like that.. Its just that she was talking about how much she liked guys with tatts, then talks about going to get this tatt finished. Then I notice her chatting this guy, here he is on trillian, in her phone (Which she deleted) and probably has emailed her. (but Ive not checked email) I would have never thought anything like this about her, but after summarizing the reasons, she could understand why I might be curious and she says she just wants these feelings to go away so we can move on.

 

update -

 

This morning, we were drinking coffee and listening to music waiting for the kids to get up. I was on her laptop installing a music client and said 'oh I didnt know you had trillian, do you have any friends on there?' She got a little aggravated and said 'I only have one friend on there and its him, he doesnt use myspace IM and we only chat on trillian occasionally'. I said 'damn, this dude is just popping up everywhere, isnt he?' and went downstairs to take a shower and get ready for work. She came down and was looking at me, not saying anything while I was getting ready. She said 'What can I do to make this ok, I hate us feeling like this?' I said 'nothing, its just something Ive got to work through, I guess'.

 

Someone earlier asked me about my issues. The only issue in my life right now is herniated discs in my back I take pain medicine for. Its gotten to the point where I'm physically addicted. It doesnt affect my workouts or soccer and to this point, Ive been able to control it rather than spend money we don't have or jeopardize anything. My wife knows that I take them, but not how much. So if this maybe screwing with my head, it could just be my own issues.

 

But does no one here think those reasons I have for being curious are worthy of notice?

[blair08]

"But does no one here think those reasons I have for being curious are worthy or notice?"

 

I do, that's why I said I really don't see why they should be talking much. I'm not saying by no means, you should be overly suspicious, or start accusing etc. I'm just saying its something to keep and eye on some.

 

I'm not saying men and women can't be friends etc. However, I understand they are talking mostly about tattoos, but what if he finishes her tat, and they are still talking? I mean after awhile I would think talking about tattoos at some point might would get old, and the conversation would move to whatever else.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot, do you think it would be ok with her if you were talking to another woman on IM about whatever? Or on the phone in texts or however else they are commmunicating.

[Gzus]

One other thing I'd like input on..

 

So I think Im over this today and go to her myspace page (through my acct). I am looking thru the messages on the bottom of the page and see 'happy bday' from this guy. His pic is of him and his wife. Yesterday, I checked out his page. Well today, his account is either deleted or cancelled.

 

Does anyone else think that's weird? Or am I finding something where there is nothing?

[PandorasBox]

So it was yesterday you saw where he left a happy bday comment, and when you looked today his page is deleted? Hard to say, maybe his wife found out they had been communicating and she deleted it or got him too.

[EnigmasMuse]

If I were you, I'd lay low with the whole thing right now. Don't mention anything else to her about this guy. No more questions or statements. Make her think for now, that you have no problem with things and all is well. The reason I say this is, IF there were infac more going on here, she already knows you're kind of wondering whats up, so she will more than likely hide things better from you. I'm not saying she will for sure, but its possible. I'm also not saying anything is going on, but for now lay low.

[GlassWindow]

completely with EnigmasMuse...

 

 

Honestly? I would listen to your gut...As a female who has participated in some of the same behavior, I don't like what I'm hearing...

 

Sometimes it really does start out very innocent...she could be "intrigued" by him, what he does for a living, and that he's the opposite of what she has...

But having only 1 friend on Trillian? and it's him? Hmmm. That makes me wonder.

 

Also; I do find the cell phone thing suspicious.

These are just my opinions, but I do find things a little disturbing....

[GlassWindow]

Don't obsess...

 

but keep an eye out.

 

For sure.

[Gzus]

ok, so heres what happened:

 

Today when I notice the guy's page down I text her and tell her what a strange coincidence. Says she has no idea and hasnt talked to him since I told her my feelings on Wed.

 

So finally, I say 'you have to tell me the extent of the communication or we won't be able to put this behind us'.. I said there are just too many coincidences and my gut is telling me something's up.. So she's quiet for a few seconds and says 'there were inappropriate messages between us' .. I said 'more than you told me about' she says 'no, I only talked to him once or twice a week but sometimes it was inappropriate. So she's bawling and saying shes so sorry and just the ego boost felt good; that she never had any intention of doing anything physical or meeting up. It was just flirty talk, she says. Of course, but how do I know that now that she's lied to me about the communication at first? She has been in here crying most of the day doing flower arrangements for a wedding tomorrow.. she said she cannot believe she did that and hates that I look at her differently.. and hates that it is now a part of our history. She said she didnt tell me at first because it really wasnt a big deal from her view (he means nothing to her), that she intended to totally break off contact and she wanted to avoid damaging what we have now that she knew she would not be contacting him again. She says 'I have everything I want, and I am so happy with my life, I have no idea why I talked to him like that'..

 

I asked her about the nature of the chat and she said 'flirty with innuendos' not outright 'sex talk'. But of course, she could be 'sparing' me more hurt at this point, i really don't know.

 

So we are damaged, I look at her differently now and its going to take some time to heal. The good thing is, she's genuinely scared to death, feels like **** about it and can't believe she did this to our heretofore 'perfect' relationship. And I really don't think she did anything physical with him or was going to. But I could be wrong. She said she would never contact him or any other guys like that again and won't ever again.

 

Anyway, I think she's remorseful and totally sorry.

 

God ****ing dammit

[verve]

So finally, I say 'you have to tell me the extent of the communication or we won't be able to put this behind us'.. I said there are just too many coincidences and my gut is telling me something's up.. So she's quiet for a few seconds and says 'there were inappropriate messages between us' ..

 

At least she sort of fessed up. Although would she have told you had you not pressed her on it?

 

So she's bawling and saying shes so sorry and just the ego boost felt good; that she never had any intention of doing anything physical or meeting up.

She still had these inappropriate conversations with him, EVEN THOUGHT she knew they were wrong, thus her hiding it from you and lying to you.

 

It was just flirty talk, she says. Of course, but how do I know that now that she's lied to me about the communication at first? She has been in here crying most of the day doing flower arrangements for a wedding tomorrow..

 

You don't know, you're going off what she said and she has lied to you so there could be more to it. And people are usually upset when they're caught.

 

she said she cannot believe she did that and hates that I look at her differently.. and hates that it is now a part of our history.

She still did it though, and from the sounds of it these were conversations, it wasn't a one off so bear that in mind.

 

She said she didnt tell me at first because it really wasnt a big deal from her view (he means nothing to her), that she intended to totally break off contact and she wanted to avoid damaging what we have now that she knew she would not be contacting him again.

That sounds like an excuse to me. She's trying to come up with reasons to justify what she did and do you really think she would have cut the contact with him, had she not been rumbled?

 

 

Have you got any examples from here because thats quite open ended language.

 

She said she would never contact him or any other guys like that again and won't ever again.

Be very careful, make sure you don't let her off lightly either or that'll show her she can do it then be forgiven by you if she's caught.

[Gzus]

Quite right, Verve. It really has damaged my trust in her. Sad, really, after always having a 100% trusting thing. I think one thing worth noting is that I had no real definitive proof and probably wasnt going to get it. She came out and told me after I pressed her enough, I think because of guilt and wanting to put it behind us.

 

Anyway, she seems truly totally remorseful and feels really guilty. I don't think she would have told me if she hadnt been confronted with some evidence, because I think she wanted to preserve my image of her. But I do think she was going to totally break off contact with him once I started asking. She also told me last night she wasnt going to go back and get the tatt finished, just because she did not want to bring up these feelings again in a few weeks. sis in law isnt going now either. She told sis in law what she did and cried with her.

 

 

Ive nearly called the guy's shop twice today.. and was going to ask for him, tell him who I was and tell him if he ever contacts my wife again I will tell his wife what's going on and personally drive down there to deal with him. But somehow I stopped short.

 

should I call him and scare him a bit?

 

Lastly, is this the extent of it, or do I have good reason to dig deeper? Should I just take her word of remorse and spare her the dignity of reading the text logs in front of her? I really don't see the benefit of that if she's truly remorseful and we are going to try to move past it.. having those thoughts in my head would kill me.

 

Anyway, thanks for the help and replies here, you guys are great.

[orangesean]

That really sucks man. I don't think scaring him is going to matter. I think your wife needs to be strong and prove herself she will not allow contact somehow.

 

Just as an aside, I'm wondering if you realize that Trillian automatically saves chat logs? I'm wondering if she realizes this too.

 

If you right click on a username within and go to "view contact history" you can read it.

 

Alternatively you can go to program files in explorer, then trillian, then default, then logs. Depending on what client she's using you'll find it in the next upcoming folders. The log with him will be with his username as a .log file. Then just open it with notepad. You may want to save or copy this or just double check.

 

Let us know what you find. Hopefully ASAP.

 

I hope Trillian hasn't been uninstalled yet. But even then the logs still may reside on the PC.

[EnigmasMuse]

If she is truly remoresful, she wont have anymore contact with him period. Also no matter how good he might be at doing tattoo's, to have no more contact with him for the sake of her marriage, she should find another person to do her tattoo's as well.

[Gzus]

Well my wife has vista on her laptop, and i havent logged onto her user acct. So i havent seen the chat logs, but on the guest acct it did have some interesting info in the trillian folder.

 

Like there was his username and said she had started trillian 15 times.. it said time = 252302; how much time is that? 15 logons since 7/7 when she got her tatt. the 15 logons is consistent with what she told me (1-3 chats a week. )

 

Anyway, shes been wrecked emotionally, I havent really talked to her at all and I went to sis in laws last night. Sis told me my wife told her last night she was scared to death and disgusted and sick with what she had done. that she cannot believe she did this and damaged our relationship and she loves me so much. I told her I was thinking about leaving for a few days (havent really spoken to my wife since she admitted talkign to him) and she said 'you will crush her if you do'. I said 'well that will make two of us.' The only reason I havent left already is because she was planning to go back with sis in law, and she would never plan to do anything with him with my sis in law around.. ever. So I dont think there were any plans to hook up and since she only met him the day he did her tatt, I really, seriously doubt anything physical happened. She looked him up on my space a day after she got back.

 

I really think she just got caught up from something that started off innocent and just got out of control. SHe is a housewife who keeps kids all day, it might have been a fantasy escape for her.

 

This morning I started trillian and sent him a message. I thought it might be cool to send a note his wife could find. So here's what I sent him:

 

"Don't ever contact my wife again Bitch. I WILL hunt your ass down (I know where you work) and make your ****ing life miserable. Not to metion I will make sure your new wife finds the text logs (that I really dont have yet but he doesnt know that)

 

I don't feel any better, really its just all starting to set in. I dont know if I should forgive, take a chance on trusting her again for the sake of our kids and family, or if I should leave for a few days to really drive the point home I will not be a ****ing doormat. I am a proud guy and I dont tolerate this ****.

 

Anyway, what do you all think, should I stay or should I go.. ?

[blair08]

I'm sorry this has happened. I know you're both upset, and I understand she feels bad for this inapproperiate chat she mentioned, but she seems really out of the frame, makes me wonder how inapproperiate it must have been.

 

Also, remember even though you sent him that message, he can save that if need be if for whatever reason he feels its a threat.

[Gzus]

oh, its for sure a threat. and i dont give a ****.

 

Anyway, do you all think its worth leaving my wife of 4 years and two kids over? or should I forgive her? do I believe her when she says it was nothing more than chat?

 

what do you all think i should do?

 

I already noticed he's been deleted on all her chat proggys. and I didnt do it.

[PandorasBox]

oh, its for sure a threat. and i dont give a ****.

 

Anyway, do you all think its worth leaving my wife of 4 years and two kids over? or should I forgive her? do I believe her when she says it was nothing more than chat?

 

what do you all think i should do?

 

I already noticed he's been deleted on all her chat proggys. and I didnt do it.

 

 

Whoa, first off take a deep breath and chill. I clearly understand you being upset, and you have the right to be. But you're moving really fast on something you just pretty much found out. I mean you already are asking if you should throw in the towel.

 

We can't answer that for you. That will have to be your decison no matter what people here tell you. Right now you're mad and upset, I think when people are upset they don't think as clearly and when they are more calm.

 

Do you feel you should end your marriage over these texts she told you about? Would you be willing to try marriage counseling, both of you? Do you even want to try to save it and work on it? Or are the texts enough for you to just walk away?

[theobserver]

All I can say is this happens so much, you mentioned she's pretty much a housewife, why do you think so many housewives turn to romance novels, eyeing the cute gardener and looking for attention from anyone that will give it that isn't a snotty little child only wanting food and playtime.

 

You might never know how far those talks went but she was clearly on the path of cheating. I could personally forgive a lapse in character if my duties to her needs weren't as attentive as they should be but that all depends on what you've been doing in the relationship.

 

She's looking for excitement and you having a decent job and providing a good home and food on the table doesn't give that, that's why we have this women living in mansions teir husbands provided having affairs with unemployed always available random men. It's time to start dating again and remind her why she chose you.

 

Make your wife be in lust of you again take her out get the kids a babysitter/leave them with family for the weekend and do something for just the two of you to reconnect. Dress up or dress down hit the resturants or hit the go kart club you get the point.

 

I'm personally with you on having sent the text to the tattoo guy. I too wouldn't give a **** how he sees the message you're warning his ass and now he knows you know some part of what went on which will hopefully keep him from recontacting her in the future. Many women don't seem to get that if we don't tell another man to back off he will eventually continue to put his moves on it's nature.

 

Your wife should be upset with herself but here's the thing you need to be that shoulder for her to cry on.

The last thing you need is her in this reckless state calling mr tat on the situation explaining how things got out of hand and before you know it theyre both sweet talking eachother. Be strong and stern but still be there for her. You've shown her you're not a doormat but don't let her think you're an as-s-hole.

 

If this does happen again though consider divorce. This is a lesson she should learn from as should you.

 

Good Luck

[Gzus]

good words man -

 

She's sworn over and again they didnt talk all that often and trillian's only been loaded 15 times since the 7th.. so I think that is true. If so, I think she's probably telling me the truth. But I want to read the chat logs, even though I will probably just find more pain there. But I have to know for sure.

 

Today I was a dick to her and told her I wasnt going to her friend's wedding with her and the kids. She got mad and said 'why are you trying to beat me up over this every moment of the day? Did you read the chat logs or something? I said, 'no', i would have to have your pw to do that. I said 'cause Im feeling pretty beat up'.. then I told her I was thinking about leaving for a few days.. and she said 'why would you make this a bigger deal than it is ? (kids/family, etc) She said 'I ONLY chatted with him, that was IT. It's not worth upsetting our kids and letting the whole family know, is it? She said 'i know i ****ed up, yesterday was the worst day of my life, I have cut all contact and deleted him from everything, what more can I do to show you I am committed to you, our marriage and our kids and want to put this behind us for good?'

 

 

I said.. 'i really don't know if there is anything you can do.. '

 

see, ive been down this road a few times before.. only the girls in the past were cheating on a physical level. I know when someone's lying and my gut instincts are good. I really don't have the gut feeling there is more to it, but I kind of want to read the chat logs to know for sure.. .but then, if I do, it may take this to a much uglier place. cause i know how I am..

 

Im not very forgiving, usually. WTF do I do, if I leave am I hurting the kids?