holliesmith Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 Did it make you a better partner/husband to her? Did you feel guilty later on? Did you feel guilt at the time? Why did you do it? I know of a guy who cheated on his gf/wife with one girl (pretty sure it was only one) - he went clubbing to find her then went out of his way to cheat and get away with it. He was a really good guy apart from the cheating (family friends etc). And he thought it was a one night stand - but the girl was keen so he took her up on it........It was only a few times but only ended with the other girl found out about his relationship. She got suss of him as he was always nervous around her - he obviously wasn't a serial cheat. He married the gf/wife a few yrs later and I wonder if their marriage could ever be as good because she never found out. I wonder if he could be a good husband and how his past cheating affects it and him (since she didn't know). What do you think? any other stories like this?
porter218 Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 If he didn't get caught , then it is more likely then not that this wasn't the only time.
carhill Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 My perspective.... 1. No. MC has, though. 2. No. 3. No. 4. Desperation borne of a soulless marriage and lacking the emotional strength at the time to end it. Your story sounds like a guy who just got his noodle wet. No involvement. Upside is lack of emotional investment. Downside is he knows how easy it is to do and get away with. I don't do random sex so have no real understanding of his perspective. A circumstance like my own can be devastating to a M/R, regardless of whether it's secret or known; regardless of whether it's sexual or not. That's the life lesson.
Author holliesmith Posted August 6, 2008 Author Posted August 6, 2008 I learnt about 'compartmentalization' on this forum with a previous post about this. It fits perfectly the situation. To guys who are good at this make reasonable partners in the long term? Or does it manifest itself in other ways/places in themselves or their relationships? Does this seemingly selfish trait remain dormant if there is no opportunity to cheat?
carhill Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 A man who is expert at compartmentalization can truly operate with an appearance of multiple personalities, IME. He's completely authentic and believable and can state lies so convincingly a sociopath would be awestruck I sensed a bit of this in myself, as I'm normally global in my behaviors, so I "tasted" this disassociation enough to find that I didn't like it, not because of guilt or shame, but rather because it didn't feel like my authentic self. It was disconcerting, for lack of a better term. A man who is comfortable with such disassociation can easily imbue all aspects of his life with it, from business associations to friendships to relationships. When a woman says "I never saw that "side" of him" when certain behaviors are described to her, that's a clue. I'll be honest here. If you read my journals, you'll get a sense of the type of person I am. I've seen, since resolving my situation, that it is in fact much easier for me to be "friendly" with women than I ever thought possible in the past and it's something I do consciously. Even though I'm more cognizant of the perception of men and women being friends (and of emotional/physical attachments and affairs), I'm noticing that different signals must be getting out now. Something has changed. And yes, after many years of selflessness, I would say the "trait" is a bit selfish and self-serving. The critical thing, for a man as you describe, is IMO for him to recognize his behaviors and their impact and do the introspection and psychological work to own his feelings and to reflect upon how his behaviors can affect others. This is what I'm working on in MC. Hopefully, you'll get a simpler answer and opinion from someone else
stoopid_guy Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 Did it make you a better partner/husband to her? It made me more content, and an overall happier person. My wife sensed that, and was glad. Our marriage was no longer a romantic relationship anyway, so that aspect did not change. Did you feel guilty later on? Did you feel guilt at the time? Yes, but the elation of the new relationship outweighed the guilt. Why did you do it? Loneliness and low self-esteem. I learnt about 'compartmentalization' on this forum with a previous post about this... To guys who are good at this make reasonable partners in the long term? Or does it manifest itself in other ways/places in themselves or their relationships? Does this seemingly selfish trait remain dormant if there is no opportunity to cheat? This skill is like many others. It depends on how it's used as to whether or not it's "good" or "bad." It's not a "core value," like compassion, greed, or empathy. It can relate to many things. I grew up on a farm. We had livestock. We treated the animals kindly, almost like pets, before we killed them and ate them or sold them to someone else with that intent. I've done theatre. In acting, you assume another role, you try to think in character. I've worked under cover, pretended to be someone/something I wasn't for long periods at a time. So "compartmentilization" has many uses. Not all are selfish. Being good at it does not make someone a bad or untrustworthy partner, and it doesn't mean they're going to cheat. But if they DO have reason to cheat, it increases their odds of getting away with it.
Author holliesmith Posted August 7, 2008 Author Posted August 7, 2008 okay, so compartmentalizing is not a reason to cheat, it just makes a guy more likely to get away with it. I think also, for that this particular guy, working in a male dominated field probably made him a little desensitized to it all to. I think I should add that I was the one who got hurt here, I was the one he cheated with. I didn't know about the gf/wife and ended it as soon as I found out and never sought revenge or anything. I didn't even yell at him or anything, just told him this was it and then he gave me a psychological 'slap in the face' by laughing as saying 'see you round' as he left. So it was totally unresolved (for me)and now I am paying for it as I have a bit more time on my hands these days to dwell on it (yes I know I should stop). The gf/wife never found out so she didn't get hurt. I originally comforted myself with the thought that if he cheated, then they probably aren't happy - or at least he isn't. Finding out about male psychology has made me realise that yes, he was probably a decent guy in all other areas and probably is in a fine and dandy marriage (he married her). I guess I am just looking for a downside to what he did (a downside for him and/or his marriage) I guess. To make me feel better (crazy! - but that is what I think I am doing here). But you know what, it actually would make me feel better! Anyone see that downside??
whichwayisup Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 then they probably aren't happy - or at least he isn't. Don't assume that they aren't happy. He is selfish and a broken man inside, and chances are whatever problems going on in their life HE has chosen to not handle them properly and is seeking attention from other women, aka you. Glad you ended it with him.
Author holliesmith Posted August 7, 2008 Author Posted August 7, 2008 Did you mean : don't assume they ARE happy? The thing is this was years ago, he married her since, and that is why I assume they are happy. He wasn't a broken man - he was a happy man - just a selfish one. My ego was tellling me that since he treated me badly - then he is bad, or unhappy or as you say broken but I have learnt that men just do this sometimes (well some men, not all) and that is a hurtful thing to swallow. People can't understand why this bothers me still as I have moved on (now married to a great guy who doesn't cheat) - but it is the unresolvedness of it. I don't know if they are happy but surely there is a downside for him somewhere. I think the egotist in me desperately wants to see him suffer as he hurt me. Not nice I know! But my rational side knows there isn't any bearing on my life now so just let it go.
cherrymoon Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 Hollie am I the only one who keeps coming across your obsession? This is at least your third thread that you have started to talk about this guy. I will be honest up until now I was thinking all sorts on why you seem to not be able to let this go. I am honestly asking you to get help. I don't mean to sound uncharitable but Hollie this is obsession and to be honest it makes me uncomfortable. You are so caught up on this guy, Why, Because you lost your virginity to him? Hollie you chose to do that, at no point did you feel threatened by him. He has Money and a good life and has got married since, How do you know? plus this is over a year ago. I am worried about you, this has gone beyond a healthy questioning. Please go and talk to someone.
twice_shy Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 He was a really good guy apart from the cheating Now there is an oxymoron. (family friends etc). And he thought it was a one night stand - but the girl was keen so he took her up on it........It was only a few times but only ended with the other girl found out about his relationship. She got suss of him as he was always nervous around her - he obviously wasn't a serial cheat. He married the gf/wife a few yrs later and I wonder if their marriage could ever be as good because she never found out. I wonder if he could be a good husband and how his past cheating affects it and him (since she didn't know). What do you think? What do I think? He is a grade A jerk and SOB.
orangesean Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 I think I should add that I was the one who got hurt here, I was the one he cheated with. I didn't know about the gf/wife and ended it as soon as I found out and never sought revenge or anything. I didn't even yell at him or anything, just told him this was it and then he gave me a psychological 'slap in the face' by laughing as saying 'see you round' as he left. So it was totally unresolved (for me)and now I am paying for it as I have a bit more time on my hands these days to dwell on it (yes I know I should stop). The gf/wife never found out so she didn't get hurt. I originally comforted myself with the thought that if he cheated, then they probably aren't happy - or at least he isn't. Finding out about male psychology has made me realise that yes, he was probably a decent guy in all other areas and probably is in a fine and dandy marriage (he married her). I guess I am just looking for a downside to what he did (a downside for him and/or his marriage) I guess. To make me feel better (crazy! - but that is what I think I am doing here). But you know what, it actually would make me feel better! Haha, I haven't read your story but you sound really awesome! Don't bother dwelling on that guy though.
whichwayisup Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 People can't understand why this bothers me still as I have moved on (now married to a great guy who doesn't cheat) - but it is the unresolvedness of it. Because you won't let it go. Whether this is ego related to you or not, hanging onto this IS going to get in the way of your own marriage. Stop analyzing what his marriage is all about and the why's of it and start focussing on you, your husband, your marriage, your own life. Let this other guy go. IT shouldn't matter to you this much, that's why I wonder how much of this is ego related.
Author holliesmith Posted August 8, 2008 Author Posted August 8, 2008 I think it pretty much is an ego thing. I think I give the impression it dominates my life but I think I just struggle to swallow the bare facts of 'male cheating psych' (ie can do it while still being in a good relationship, apparently) - so many people seem to think this can't be possible, but it seems to be!
whichwayisup Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 You are married now, you even say to a great guy - So why are you still thinking of someone from your past? I don't understand why this is still getting to you?
Author holliesmith Posted August 8, 2008 Author Posted August 8, 2008 That is a good question and I think its because: 1) I am at home with kids and feeling bored so I have time to think about (and obsess) about things I wouldn't normally 2) He was brought up by a friend who mentioned how well he has done (financially) - darling husband and I struggle with 2 kids so I think I am jealous (totally not proud of it, don't worry) - I have told him I am struggling with this a while ago and he was great - but of course just told me to not worry about it - and he is right, and I am trying not to - but I am working on pt 4 below at the moment. 3) at the time, I felt soooo humiliated and embarrassed I just pushed it away and didn't think of it - so it was totally unresolved in my head and now it has come back up I am kind of ready to face it 4) learning about psychology (I am starting to study again) has taught me some things about how men can just cheat and think nothing of it and still love their life partners. That is totally in opposition to what many told me about cheaters - that is like, a totally bitter pill to swallow Sum total I know is to give it all up and focus on my life. I haven't enjoyed the obsessing part of this but I did discover a passion for psychology so starting to study that again........... thanks for caring.
2sunny Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 well my xH did cheat and didn't feel one bit bad about it. he almost had the attitude as though it was his privilege and right to do so. this made my decision easier as i wasn't going to stand for it. we had an amazing life together. a life 99.9% of the men on the earth would die to have. did he love me? YES - i have no doubt about that. he loved me as much as he could possibly love someone other than himself. he honestly wasn't capable of being faithful. that's how some folks are...
2sure Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 The critical thing, for a man as you describe, is IMO for him to recognize his behaviors and their impact and do the introspection and psychological work to own his feelings and to reflect upon how his behaviors can affect others. This is what I'm working on in MC. Carhill - This struck me like a lightening bolt!! After finding out about my H's behavior and giving him consequences...it seems to have stopped. On one hand, Im not surprized because he is good person - on the other hand, I'm still paranoid because ... well, because. But your statement gives me some insight into what is going on inside his head that is helping him stop. My husband's behavior had very little to do with me personally. He didnt use the word "compartmentalization" when trying to answer "HOW COULD YOU?" But, you've described what he attempted to. Thanks.
carhill Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 An additional factor for males, IMO, is that most are socialized to compete and win, whether for material goods, power, or the love of a woman. That socialization intrinsically includes desensitizing oneself to the effects of ones actions on others. Think about that. It's really hard to subdue and overcome an opponent when you're hog-tied with thoughts about how they'll feel or if they'll be hurt by your dominance. So, hence, part of the male psychological profile (in general) is re-directing or blocking out those thoughts. An extreme example of this is a soldier who is trained to kill other human beings. Most men do not want to do that (my father hated having to point a rifle at Germans in WW2) but learned to do it anyway by blocking out certain parts of their psyche from their conscious thought processes. Some men, like my father, were able to do that and then go back to being their normal, more compassionate selves, later. Other men were scarred for life. Again, an extreme example, but one accurately showing how the mind can be altered, in this case externally, to achieve a goal. When a man tells a women "you have no idea what I go through", think about what I just posted. It's really revealing. Again, and this is important, it's not about right and wrong (I still believe infidelity is wrong), it's about understanding the underlying psychology and the signals which indicate the potential. In my dad's case, he didn't cheat, but internalized a lot of that history and current stress and I believe such was what led to his otherwise early death (at 69). Had he developed better coping tools and been more external with his feelings, he might have lived a longer and healthier life. That's what I'm hoping to do
Recommended Posts