Jersey Shortie Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Jersey Shortie, I am done with you now. You may rail at porn for the rest of your life, become more bitter with men and ignore anything that challenges your victim mentality. Good luck with that. Well i'm sorry you don't understand. I don't say the things I do just to frustrate you.And just because I have the opinons I do doesn't mean I am playing victim. I'd love not to be so bitter about men and relationships but men don't exactly make it easy on us.
Author Rorocher Posted August 15, 2008 Author Posted August 15, 2008 it's a vicious cycle really, you place such high expectations on a whole population as a result of dogmatic extreme views, you are bound to keep getting dissapointed and the disappointment will continue to lead to increased frustration and bitterness. That's a guarantee! You either adjust those views and like the collector said, try to find happiness in an imperfect world or you remain bitter frustrated for the rest of life. I don't imagine that's any fun but perhaps to some it is, oh well. What's that definition of insanity again? oh yeah, "doing the same **** over and over again and expecting a different result". So, it's a choice really. This aint utopia, adjust and adapt, that is what people do. Or you can take on the world. A person doing one thing wrong(arguably at that), doesn't mean that person is inherently evil and can't do anything else right. I've made my point in this thread, more arguments, to me, is just redundant at this point . So whomever wants to argue what I've just said is free to keep on keeping on:rolleyes: it's been real! I cannot go into a lot of detail, just know that I've got the lawyer paid and paper work is drawn up, he will be served tomorrow and we're going for an emergency hearing to get the transfered assets frozen till the judge can decide upon equitable distribution. Upon advice of my lawyer I just backup every computer in this house, the contents were eye opening to say the least. That was fast, I really wish it generates a positive outcome, good luck to you. I hope you finally find that happiness you've been deprived of.
soserious1 Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 That was fast, I really wish it generates a positive outcome, good luck to you. I hope you finally find that happiness you've been deprived of. It has to be fast to protect marital assets, my STB ex moved jointly held funds into an individual account a few days ago prior to making his threats of having me admitted for a mental status exam against my will. He's already been served this morning and is not happy,though I did inform him last evening that this would be happening. I'm waiting to hear about the date/time for the emergency hearing concerning the assets and trying to work thru the numbers of who gets what and what the least costly way to handle splitting of my pension. Will also have to calculate how much money to leave unfrozen as one of us has to move and it would be better sooner rather than later.
rainfall Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Well JS, like I and other people have said, if porn is a non-negotiable no-no for you, you have to find a man who isn't into it. Like if you were a committed christian or vegetarian you might decide that is an essential for your partner also. It would not be fair to rail against all non-Christians or meat-eaters for not fitting your bill however. Now, if you weren't keen on porn, but like a lot of women were prepared to look the other way, that's a compromise. It doesn't mean you have to wear a crap-eating grin and feel like a victim, because compromise is part of any relationship. But as to what the woman gets out of the deal, presumably the man is compromising on some of his preferences or ideals also. Maybe the fact she has a vibrator bothers him, but he doesn't say anything. Maybe she has mood-swings, maybe for a week every month, maybe she smokes or gambles or all manner of other things you probably don't agree are the same as sexual loyalty in every thought and deed. Whatever, it is up to each party to decide if there is mutual satisfaction from the relationship, with compromises and acceptance part of the deal. To keep it in the realm of sexuality, most men do not expect their SO to only think of them in times of self-pleasure, they know they read romance novels, watch Sex In The City for the Sex Bits or have any number of mini crushes on celebrities or sexy men they know and might have a little flirt with. This is anathema to you, but part of a normal, happy life to many other people. They don't feel betrayed and bitter if their partner admits to finding a movie star sexy. They don't expect all women over 50 to only fantasize about Sean Connery. They accept their partner's different needs, including sexual, including hormonal, and try to make it work. Usually, but not always depending on the couple, the line that must not be crossed is physical intimacy with another. For some, emotional intimacy with a member of the opposite sex is too far, for some swinging is the best thing ever. The reason I find myself debating with you is not because of any fierce loyalty to porn (though I enjoy it sometimes), it's the challenge of getting you to question your dogmatic opinions, to oppose your constant man-bashing, and also to help you find some peace and happiness in this imperfect world. You have specific needs in a partner. You can even call it having high standards if you like, but everyone here, male or female, will agree that finding the right person for you is never easy and often seemingly impossible. But if you think all men are disappointing because they like porn, can't you also enter into the equation that many of those same men are loving their kids, risking their lives to save other people, being heroes, working with disabled kids, trying to find the cure for cancer, genuinely trying to make the world a better place. And many try very hard to keep their partners happy. Some don't of course, like some women are selfish. But the reason you don't have an army of women here backing your campaign is because most have come to terms with men's faults and what's good about them and have decided to make the most of this situation we've all been born into without getting bitter and hateful. And porn, to them, is not worth fighting over. Or it genuinely doesn't bother them. Or they like it too. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to compromise on the porn issue. Why should a women have to be the one to give up something just so a man can get off to pictures of naked skanky women or videos of naked skanky women? Looking the other way is not compromise. The man is the only one getting what he wants and the women is stuck being a second choice for her man. There are many reasons why a women has chosen to accept her man's porn use. My co worker says she is ok with it because she knows she is overweight and would rather stay that way then lose weight and she has no room to whine if her man wants to look at hot thin women. Another co worker is cheating on her boyfriend so she really doesn't have any room to complain if he wants to look at other women as well. Not all women like Sex In The City or read romance novels. I would rather poke my eyes out with sharp objects then watch or read one of those two things. I am happy with what I have in my SO and I feel no need to wish he was buffer,richer,more romantic or any other character trait that some women look for.
Lovelybird Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 it's a vicious cycle really, you place such high expectations on a whole population as a result of dogmatic extreme views, you are bound to keep getting dissapointed and the disappointment will continue to lead to increased frustration and bitterness. That's a guarantee! You either adjust those views and like the collector said, try to find happiness in an imperfect world or you remain bitter frustrated for the rest of life. I don't imagine that's any fun but perhaps to some it is, oh well. What's that definition of insanity again? oh yeah, "doing the same **** over and over again and expecting a different result". So, it's a choice really. This aint utopia, adjust and adapt, that is what people do. Or you can take on the world. A person doing one thing wrong(arguably at that), doesn't mean that person is inherently evil and can't do anything else right. I've made my point in this thread, more arguments, to me, is just redundant at this point . So whomever wants to argue what I've just said is free to keep on keeping on:rolleyes: it's been real! [/i] That was fast, I really wish it generates a positive outcome, good luck to you. I hope you finally find that happiness you've been deprived of. I think you don't like your husband's porn watching, even bitter about it, then why still advise other to accept it? Not really. I know many men don't watch porn, and treat their wives like queen, you can see that happiness in their wives' face, oh, these are Christian Holy Ghost filled men by the way. and their wives are strong women in Lord, they know their values, they know how to fight, they know power of prayers, what God can do. Only when a person think she is a precious diamond, then others will treat her so I very dislike the idea 'if the world is so, then you have to settle'. that is quite doormatic thinking. Believe high, aim high, you can arrive high. Accept a man and love a man is different from tolerating whatever he does. Former one confronts with acceptance his being not what his doing; the later one is like sand of a shore, go wherever the water takes it, no backbone, don't have a value rock to hold on. but if you really don't know you have the responsibility and power to influence your husband, if you really don't know powerful prayers, then maybe cannot blame you too much So issue here isn't about "accept porn", it would be more productive if discuss "if a husband watches porn, how to help him stop use it with love"
Jersey Shortie Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 it's a vicious cycle really, you place such high expectations on a whole population as a result of dogmatic extreme views, you are bound to keep getting dissapointed and the disappointment will continue to lead to increased frustration and bitterness. I'm sorry but you really have no place to say that you even know what my expectatoins are. You really don't. That isn't something you can garner from a message board. And I really don't consider my views any more dogmatic or not then people who are on the other side of the line, such as yourself. You're ratehr dogmatic in some respects yourself. You either adjust those views and like the collector said, try to find happiness in an imperfect world or you remain bitter frustrated for the rest of life. I wonder if anyone would have told African-Americans that they should learn to adjust their views to best suit what was popular and natural at that point in history because that is what would have been easist for all? Could you imagaine? oh yeah, "doing the same **** over and over again and expecting a different result". So, it's a choice really. This aint utopia, adjust and adapt, that is what people do. Yes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity. Yet, ironically your argument could easily be compared to men and their passion for and fight for porn. It's also their choice. And often the choice men make is porn over real women. It "isn't" utopia but that doesn't mean you lie down and let yourself get it up the butt. We adapt but we also should challenge are ideals because it's something that is ever changing. Or you can take on the world. A person doing one thing wrong(arguably at that), doesn't mean that person is inherently evil and can't do anything else right. And if they are doing "one thing wrong" on a regular basis?..... what does that mean? So whomever wants to argue what I've just said is free to keep on keeping on Don't worry. we will! With or without your consent in the matter. I think at the end of the day it is a man's world and there isn't much place for women in it. Other then what they have to offer men sexually apparently.
Lovelybird Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 I think at the end of the day it is a man's world and there isn't much place for women in it. Other then what they have to offer men sexually apparently. not true, it is God's world Yes, God give men the authority "be the head of house", but God means "care and love your wife as your own body, nuture her like nuture a plant with daily devotion and care, initiate and lead in love matters", God didn't mean "you can be bossy, do whatever you can" well, I think if a man cannot initiate and lead in a right direction or they completely lead in a wrong direction, then woman can follow God and take the lead for a while although it is no much fun for doing so
Mr. Lucky Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 I think at the end of the day it is a man's world and there isn't much place for women in it. Other then what they have to offer men sexually apparently. Jersey, I agree that one statement eloquently sums up your view of the world. Why do you think that you see it on those terms while the majority of women (and men) see it differently ? Mr. Lucky
Jersey Shortie Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Who is this majority of men and women that see it differently? I don't think the majority of men and women do see it differently Mr.Lucky. A lot of times, the message women get is that they are only as worthy as their sexual appeal. How many women get surgery to change their bodies to meet and unreal ideal? How many images of other women that their men indulge in do women have to compete with? How many women can be expected to be replaced, even by their own husbands, the men that are suppose to love them, by younger versions through porn or other avenues. How many women are called names for their sexuality while men are praised for theirs? I don't think I am wrong in seeing that this world is a man's one still and that there isn't much place for true feminity as there is for sexuality of women as defined by what men like best: over exploited images of women doing crazy things. That's really just one example. Men get better with age, women get worse and are the losers here. And I think men get some perverse pleasure/power combo out of that.
Lovelybird Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Who is this majority of men and women that see it differently? I don't think the majority of men and women do see it differently Mr.Lucky. A lot of times, the message women get is that they are only as worthy as their sexual appeal. How many women get surgery to change their bodies to meet and unreal ideal? How many images of other women that their men indulge in do women have to compete with? How many women can be expected to be replaced, even by their own husbands, the men that are suppose to love them, by younger versions through porn or other avenues. How many women are called names for their sexuality while men are praised for theirs? I don't think I am wrong in seeing that this world is a man's one still and that there isn't much place for true feminity as there is for sexuality of women as defined by what men like best: over exploited images of women doing crazy things. That's really just one example. Men get better with age, women get worse and are the losers here. And I think men get some perverse pleasure/power combo out of that. if you are dominated by most men's view, what they like, and then act accordingly (such as being overly slutty), then you are going to be frustrated. if you are going to let men define your value or your loser winner, you are easy to feel powerless, like your mindset right now. Yes, this society is promoting 'sexual appeal', and many standards to judge a woman is beautiful or not. but who said you must accept what the society do popularly? who said you have to follow the flow? there are men who aren't that superficial, they love the woman because the soul connection is there, they have same goals for life many men won't judge women only based on sexual side. maybe you focus on negativeness too much. Men need emotion connection as women do, they cherish connection and emotion fullfillment as well
Jersey Shortie Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 You're right Lovelybird. I should work on it. It's hard to remember when you see what most of the general population is like.
Alma Mobley Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Jersey Shortie, I have read this entire thread. Whew! What is the real issue here? Is it really just porn? Your posts branch out in several directions, and I sense a deeper issue here -- and I am NOT saying you have "issues" -- but I think that YOU think porn is a symptom of a larger problem. Could you perhaps be more direct about this larger problem? I have seen you talk here and there about it throughout the thread, but I would like to read your thoughts on it (excluding the porn angle). For what it's worth, I do think you make good points at times, but they get lost in the specific porn argument. Thanks.
Lovelybird Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 You're right Lovelybird. I should work on it. It's hard to remember when you see what most of the general population is like. I feel like my tone was too strong in last post, in fact, I admire your debates here, You made many excellent points, and expressed the pain in many women's heart. when I follow your thinking line, I understand why you are so upset about this issue. I cannot live peacefully and joyfully while think like this. Living under these superficial standards, under what porn-men expect of women, is quite depressing and no hope when thinking of a loving relationship between man and woman, do not part till death. If these superficial standards are so depressing, then I won't adopt them at all. There are men out there won't adopt them too. I think these standards this society added to us only harm our self esteem, deprive women of their value. But if we ignore them, don't listen to the 'evil voice', instead we listen to the 'divine voice', then we are going to be ok. The 'divine voice' is completely different from this world, He won't judge us because we look cute or not, won't judge us because we are slutty or not, He speak true value of ours. and this is my strength comes from. when I feel insecure or compare myself to the standards of this society, the 'divine voice' speaks "God loves you unconditionally, God defines your value, not men. have faith, the world is God's, God will send a man who value you as who you are, a man who know how to cherish you if you ask Me". So you don't have to worry, God won't pick a porn-man when He has so many genuine ones who think there are many other important things than porn watching There are two systems: God's kingdom value system and the world system. The former one bring life, and if we live according to it, we are going to reap hope, bright future, anything good you can imagine; but if we live according to the later, we reap depression, despaire, hopeless, unfaithfulness, bitterness and hatred... I cannot imagine to live in this world without God's guidance. I think many women tolerate their husband's porn use is because they fear, and don't know how to fight that issue, aren't sure their own value, don't know God can back them up if they do right. I just read a interesting book, a wise mother who has a long happy marriage advised her daughter this before wedding "A good woman can make a bad man good, and a bad woman can make a good man bad, It's all about influence. That's your power as a woman. God created us--the woman--as a helpmate. We have a responsibility as a helpmate to recognize our power and to use our power for the good of the kingdom. The original design of marriage is of God, and the wife has a very strong role in this design. Now, can you do this?" the daughter asked "how do I do it?" "Not at all by yourself, you must be guided 100 percent by God, totally giving your marriage to Him. Then, you and your Denzel must pray. The two of you must pray together. Constantly!" The daughter did what her mom told her, and have a happy marriage. by the way, I quote from book Couples who pray by Squire Rushnell and Louise Duart
Mr. Lucky Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Who is this majority of men and women that see it differently? I don't think the majority of men and women do see it differently Mr.Lucky. A lot of times, the message women get is that they are only as worthy as their sexual appeal. How many women get surgery to change their bodies to meet and unreal ideal? How many images of other women that their men indulge in do women have to compete with? How many women can be expected to be replaced, even by their own husbands, the men that are suppose to love them, by younger versions through porn or other avenues. How many women are called names for their sexuality while men are praised for theirs? I don't think I am wrong in seeing that this world is a man's one still and that there isn't much place for true feminity as there is for sexuality of women as defined by what men like best: over exploited images of women doing crazy things. That's really just one example. Men get better with age, women get worse and are the losers here. And I think men get some perverse pleasure/power combo out of that. Jersey, a beatifully presented and well-structured arguement, just like most of your posts. Unfortunately, it's based on mis-statements, half-truths and your own persistent bias against men. As an example, you imply that a large percentage of women have had cosmetic surgery. The statistics I found put the number at 5%. And then you identify porn as the driving force behind a woman's decision to do so. I wonder how many of those women would agree? Mr. Lucky
angie2443 Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 As an example, you imply that a large percentage of women have had cosmetic surgery. The statistics I found put the number at 5%. And then you identify porn as the driving force behind a woman's decision to do so. I wonder how many of those women would agree? I don't know how many women are getting cosmetic surgery, but I know the number is growing. Even teenage girls are getting breat implants because they feel embaressed by the size of their breast. Is this the falt of porn? I think it is largely the fault of how the media (magazines, movies, etc) potray women, and I guess the porn industry is part of that. It can be very hard for a woman to not question her looks when she views images of woman in the media (again, I'm talking about movies, tv shows, magazines as opposed to news stories). In magazines these images are often air brushed, and digitally altered by a computer. There was a clip on youtube called, I think, "the evolution of beauty" that kind of shows this.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 I don't know how many women are getting cosmetic surgery, but I know the number is growing. Even teenage girls are getting breat implants because they feel embaressed by the size of their breast. Is this the falt of porn? I think it is largely the fault of how the media (magazines, movies, etc) potray women, and I guess the porn industry is part of that. It can be very hard for a woman to not question her looks when she views images of woman in the media (again, I'm talking about movies, tv shows, magazines as opposed to news stories). In magazines these images are often air brushed, and digitally altered by a computer. There was a clip on youtube called, I think, "the evolution of beauty" that kind of shows this. There are just as many men as women that elect to have certain types of cosmetic surgery, usually in an effort to present a more youthful appearance. Do you think that they are equally victimized by the media? While I understand your POV, I was questioning Jersey's McCarthy-like ability to see porn behind every issue, this one included. Where I see the foibles of human nature, she sees women vitimized by men... Mr. Lucky
angie2443 Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 There are just as many men as women that elect to have certain types of cosmetic surgery, usually in an effort to present a more youthful appearance. Do you think that they are equally victimized by the media? Women had 92 percent of cosmetic procedures. The number of procedures (surgical and nonsurgical) performed on women was over 10.5 million, an increase of 1 percent from the previous year. Surgical procedures decreased 9 percent; nonsurgical procedures increased 4 percent. Since 1997, surgical procedures increased 123 percent, while nonsurgical procedures have increased 749 percent. Men had 8 percent of cosmetic procedures. The number of procedures (surgical and nonsurgical) performed on men was nearly 1 million, a decrease of 5 percent from the previous year. Surgical procedures decreased 9 percent; nonsurgical procedures decreased 3 percent. Since 1997, surgical procedures have decreased 2%, while nonsurgical procedures have increased 722 percent. from http://www.cosmeticplasticsurgerystatistics.com/statistics.html#2007-HIGHLIGHTS
Mr. Lucky Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Men had 8 percent of cosmetic procedures. The number of procedures (surgical and nonsurgical) performed on men was nearly 1 million, a decrease of 5 percent from the previous year. Surgical procedures decreased 9 percent; nonsurgical procedures decreased 3 percent. Since 1997, surgical procedures have decreased 2%, while nonsurgical procedures have increased 722 percent. from http://www.cosmeticplasticsurgerystatistics.com/statistics.html#2007-HIGHLIGHTS Well, I wasn't sure of the numbers and that's one reason why I qualified my original statement when I said "There are just as many men as women that elect to have certain types of cosmetic surgery". Still, one-million men (up 722% in 10 years) is certainly not an insignificant number. Are those men also equal victims of the media's obsession with youthful beauty? Mr. Lucky
Jersey Shortie Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 What is the real issue here? Is it really just porn? Your posts branch out in several directions, and I sense a deeper issue here -- and I am NOT saying you have "issues" -- but I think that YOU think porn is a symptom of a larger problem. Could you perhaps be more direct about this larger problem? I have seen you talk here and there about it throughout the thread, but I would like to read your thoughts on it (excluding the porn angle). For what it's worth, I do think you make good points at times, but they get lost in the specific porn argument. You're right Alma Mobley. After reading your posts I do see porn as a symptom of a larger issue. I guess the larger problem is the disrespect, disconnect and complete selfishness between the sexes. The way each sex can exploit each other. Use each other. And treat each other like they aren't real people that matter. I guess I use it so much in the porn discussions because it's a perfect example of all those three qualities I listed and the personal fears I have in regards to what men really think about women since porn repersents aspects of men that men really enjoy. It's hard finding good men in this day and age. And hard finding good women. And I sense so much hurt from both sexes from the other sex. And unfortunetly, I do think porn reflects men's attitudes about women. Is that more of the answer you are looking for? Care to share you thoughts? Jersey, a beatifully presented and well-structured arguement, just like most of your posts. Unfortunately, it's based on mis-statements, half-truths and your own persistent bias against men. As an example, you imply that a large percentage of women have had cosmetic surgery. The statistics I found put the number at 5%. And then you identify porn as the driving force behind a woman's decision to do so. I wonder how many of those women would agree? Then explain to me the parts that were mis-statements, half truths and biased against men? Women are more effected by preasures of concepts of beauty then men are. Not saying men aren't affected but its not on the same level. Women's breast surgeries increased when porn became mainstream. Most fashion models on the cat walk aren't showing off fakies.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Then explain to me the parts that were mis-statements, half truths and biased against men? Women are more effected by preasures of concepts of beauty then men are. Not saying men aren't affected but its not on the same level. Women's breast surgeries increased when porn became mainstream. Most fashion models on the cat walk aren't showing off fakies. And perhaps men are more affected by the pressures of concepts of financial security than women. And so any woman that wants a nice house with a pool is exploiting her man for financial gain. We're all flawed human beings with our own unique sets of hang-ups, neuroses, libidos and desires. When you start to (see what are in your eyes) your partner's flaws as not only a plot against you but a part of some gender-wide conspiracy, then you're being unreasonable. It ain't all about you. And your post that women's breast surgeries are a result of porn is indeed a mis-statement and half-truth ... Mr. Lucky
angie2443 Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Well, I wasn't sure of the numbers and that's one reason why I qualified my original statement when I said "There are just as many men as women that elect to have certain types of cosmetic surgery". Still, one-million men (up 722% in 10 years) is certainly not an insignificant number. Are those men also equal victims of the media's obsession with youthful beauty? Mr. Lucky The pressure is growing for men also, which is a good thing in my opinion. The more men who feel this pressure, the more men will start to see how rediculous these impossible standards of beauty. Many women know this, but unfortuneatly, it is a man's world and women can't do much to change things right now.
Jersey Shortie Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 And perhaps men are more affected by the pressures of concepts of financial security than women. And so any woman that wants a nice house with a pool is exploiting her man for financial gain. We're all flawed human beings with our own unique sets of hang-ups, neuroses, libidos and desires. When you start to (see what are in your eyes) your partner's flaws as not only a plot against you but a part of some gender-wide conspiracy, then you're being unreasonable. It ain't all about you. And your post that women's breast surgeries are a result of porn is indeed a mis-statement and half-truth ... Mr. Lucky Yes, men meet more pressure to be a provider and offer financial security. But I don't sit around masturbating to images or men providing. And I don't think men should have fake body parts to be considered men. And today, many women are just as much a financial contributing member as their husbands. And I never said anything close to men's flaws being about a gender conspiracy. The fact remains that men want their cake and to eat it too. They want porn but htey want loving women. They want a good woman but they don't want to have to work too hard for it. They want women but they want them to remain 20 forever. The pressures and expectations that society put women under and that our own men buy into hurts Mr. Lucky. And yes, breast agumentation increased when porn became main stream. That isn't a mis-statement. I've read it several times in different articles. If you think men can spend their time ogling and putting women on a pedstal in porn, and that real women aren't going to start to feel that they don't meet men's expectaations anymore and try to change that, you aren't being realistic.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Yes, men meet more pressure to be a provider and offer financial security. But I don't sit around masturbating to images of men providing. You are curiously fixated on masturbation as the only significant form of sexual or emotional expression. According to you, love means "don't masturbate to the image or thought of anyone else". I'll leave it to others to figure out why that is... And I never said anything close to men's flaws being about a gender conspiracy. The fact remains that men want their cake and to eat it too. They want porn but htey want loving women. They want a good woman but they don't want to have to work too hard for it. They want women but they want them to remain 20 forever. One one hand, you say it's not a gender-based conspiracy. You then proceed to describe the things that, in your mind, all men do. Another mis-statement. Mr. Lucky
blair08 Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Wow, lots of pages. I hope you all get this straightened out!
demrea Posted August 19, 2008 Posted August 19, 2008 Jersey, What about men who masturbate to erotic stories? Are they cheating and disreptful the female population too? What about men who masturbate to images in their brain that arent from photo's or the internet, but just imaging their wife having sex with some faceless not even seen person? Is your problem with porn or masturbation?
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