Lonely Lover Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I've been totally NC with my xMM for 6 days, and thought I was doing pretty well. Then he called today. He sounded miserable (was sobbing on the phone). He begged me to see him, if just to help him get through everything. I couldn't say no. When we met, I was shocked at how bad he looked. I bet he's lost 10 lb, had super dark bags under his eyes, and he was wearing clothes with holes in them (he's normally fastidious about his appearance). He said he couldn't eat or sleep the past 6 days, and I believe him. Really, he was a miserable wreck. My first reaction was guilt--I never wanted to cause him so much pain. Anyway, he told me that he still wanted to be with me, that he could start the separation process in about a month. But he needed me to be there for him. He needed to know that I'd be with him forever--that I wouldn't get tired of him once I had him as my husband. He talked about the family ring he wanted to give me, about our honeymoon, about having a family. He said he wanted all that, and was finally in a place where he could leave his wife for me--but only if I could be there for him through these hard times. I was so scared and confused at that point. I told him that I didn't know what I wanted anymore--that I'd given up on having a real life with him when I left him last week, and I didn't know if I could trust him again. I told him that he'd left me empty, and that spending even a minute longer as his mistress would kill me. He said it sounded like I had given up, and I agreed. He told me that all his fears about me were correct--that when I actually had the chance to have him, I wouldn't want him. If he had left last year, I would've married him and been in love with him forever. If he'd left this June, I would've felt so blessed to have him. But now... it seems like too little, too late. Am I wrong to feel this way? Should I support him one last time? He's done this to me twice before, where he's told me he'd move out after I ended our A. He let me down so terribly. Even if he were single at this point, I don't know that I would want him. But if I'm not here for him now, I'll never get the chance to know if he's the one for me. Today, I couldn't tell him that he was "the one" for me anymore. A year ago, I was certain that he was my soulmate (a term I didn't believe in until I met him). Ugh. I'm so confused. We left by saying goodbye, "for real." He said he wouldn't try to contact me again. But he said if I wanted to be with him, I could call and we could start fresh. What should I do?
whichwayisup Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Tell him the day he shows up with the proof (signed divorce papers) then you two can date eachother and start off on the right foot. Until that happens, you can't be in his life. This has nothing to do with love, it has to do with respect and doing the right thing. IF he truly wants to be with you, he WILL do everything necessary as quickly as possible.
wildsoul Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I don't have expert advice (she says humbly) but I want to thank you for allowing me to look at your situation and relate. Disclaimer for being a rookie, but here is what I'm thinking. He wants you to guarantee you'll be there for him before he makes his move. Reading a bit of your other posts, it seems you have given him the benefit of the doubt only to have him not follow through. If you give him the benefit of the doubt now and he doesn't follow through again, you're going to be really upset with yourself for repeating old mistakes! And it sounds like there might have been one too many already, and if not, than this will break the camels back. You do not deserve a broken back. They take a long time to heal too. His painful condition and pleas probably make you want to rescue him. I think you need to resist the temptation to do so. Also, if you're like me, you're probably really beliving that this is the LAST chance (because he is presenting it that way.) But it's probably not. History shows that he always tries to get you back. Let him go then watch what he does. If you don't "rescue" him, he will have to decide for and by himself. He needs his own conviction for the divorce, unpadded by the soft cushion of knowing you'll be there. He's got to man up. Everyone else gave you really great advice. I just wanted to mention the part about it not being the last chance (since I recently got all worked up at my guy telling me to "go away!" then he was back within 48hrs.) Stay strong and steady.
Repeat Offender Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 If he had left last year, I would've married him and been in love with him forever. If he'd left this June, I would've felt so blessed to have him. But now... it seems like too little, too late. Am I wrong to feel this way? Should I support him one last time? He's done this to me twice before, where he's told me he'd move out after I ended our A. He let me down so terribly. Even if he were single at this point, I don't know that I would want him. But if I'm not here for him now, I'll never get the chance to know if he's the one for me. Today, I couldn't tell him that he was "the one" for me anymore. A year ago, I was certain that he was my soulmate (a term I didn't believe in until I met him). Ugh. I'm so confused. Your answers are all in that paragraph. How do you feel about him? You said it...you couldn't tell him he was the one. Why not? Do you want a relationship with him on his terms? Given the history he doesn't appear to have given you a reason to think things will be any different this time around. Doesn't sound like he's behaving as "the one" to me. "The one" left his wife the first or second time he said he would. "This one" didn't. No, you are not wrong to feel this way. Feelings are never right or wrong. Feelings are things we feel - much the same way you feel hot or cold. If I touch fire it feels hot. If I touch ice it feels cold. If I spend a year or more in a relationship with someone who doesn't meet my needs I start to feel empty, alone, sad, etc etc. Once upon a time I had a soulmate. He wasn't married to a woman. He was married to a bar. The effect is the same. He couldn't be there for me. I was his mistress, the bar was his wife. I ended up feeling much the same as you - it's 3 years later and he still wants us back together. He's also still married to the bar. I have no feelings left for him, aside from maybe pity really. Sometimes I feel guilty about that but that's just how I feel. I don't want to be with him because he's not the one for me - he can't give me what I need in a relationship. Your situation sounds similar. If he doesn't want to be married to his wife he should leave her - whether or not he has someone else to run to. Sounds to me like this man doesn't know how to make HIMSELF happy and like so many he looks outward for that thing that he feels he needs to be happy - in his case the affair. That's never a good thing - we never EVER find happiness outside of ourselves. He won't be happy with you either. Or anyone. There's a quote I like that goes something like: "Do what you've always done, get what you've always gotten". Or, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results." You are fine. You don't need to do anything. This isn't supposed to feel good. Just know that you are doing what's best for you AND him long term. He needs to get his life in order and his head on straight before he can be part of a relationship with anyone.
OpenBook Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 What a little drama queen! (Him, I mean.) It might be one thing if it was the first time. But you've already been through this same scenario with him. Twice. And now he's trying the same exact thing for a third go-round, thinking you'll cave like you did before. If I were you, girlfriend, I wouldn't go for Round 3. This guy has already shown his stripes... in spades. Who needs it?!?
beautifullove Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I totally understand what your going through, and at times like this sometimes it's difficult to think logically. This is why I love this forum, because you will be reminded of what's going on outside of your emotions. Here is the logic: If you stay with him through this tough time, he will leave his wife and get a divorce. This means, if you don't stay with him through this tough time, he will not get a divorce. Technically, if he truly believes his M is over, he would want to get a divorce regardless of whether you're around or not. You do not deserve to be used like this, because you have feelings too. I would try and do NC, and at least you will have an opportunity to see things clearly. Good luck!
whichwayisup Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 He wants you to guarantee you'll be there for him before he makes his move. I agree. The thing is, he should be leaving his marriage because he doesn't love his wife anymore and it's not working. If he is going to leave and divorce, he should do it either way, reguardless if you're waiting for him or not. I hope that makes sense to you..
Mino Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I know this song and dance well... Sweetie, its a hook! They play the drama to lure you back in, and just to reasure themselves, he needs you to stand by him. Once you give in, its back to status Quo... Go nc... i f you can... or very limited contact, be unavaible 90% of the time, give excuses of why you cant see him today... be nice...be distant, set yourself a date of when your really done, if no changes occur...good luck!
Author Lonely Lover Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 Thank you all for confirming what I’ve thought all along. He should not be leaving his marriage for me—he should be leaving his marriage because he needs to. It shouldn’t matter that I’m helping him through it or not—it’s what he should need to do. I’ve tried “semi” NC before though. So many times before. It's worse than total NC! I’m getting back on the wagon. I’m so grateful for this forum. I know without it I’d be overwhelmed with uncertainty, and would turn back to what’s familiar. My xMM is so good at making his needs seem logical, even when objectively they are anything but. Even when what he's asking of me would crush whatever pride and spirit I have left. I’ve even tried to portray his viewpoint, and everyone here cuts right through it. You’re the no-nonsense, nonjudgmental friends I’ve need to get through this. Anyway, thanks to everyone here.
SnowWhite924 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 LonelyLover, I think you already knew the answer but you just needed to hear it. Go with your gut. You're not feeling it for him because you are so done with him. Stick to NC. If he wants to be with you, he'll do whatever it takes.
Tomcat33 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 If he had left last year, I would've married him and been in love with him forever. If he'd left this June, I would've felt so blessed to have him. But now... it seems like too little, too late. Am I wrong to feel this way? Should I support him one last time? He's done this to me twice before, where he's told me he'd move out after I ended our A. He let me down so terribly. Even if he were single at this point, I don't know that I would want him. But if I'm not here for him now, I'll never get the chance to know if he's the one for me. Today, I couldn't tell him that he was "the one" for me anymore. A year ago, I was certain that he was my soulmate (a term I didn't believe in until I met him). Ugh. I'm so confused. Lonely, you owe it to yourself to figure out if you really do have a future with this man or not. Clearly you are on the fence you are not over him and you have some hopes. That's OK. On the same token you know his track record, and you know that if you give in to him as things are, he will dissapoint you again, or maybe not "he will" but "he might" Regardless, that is not a risk I advice you to take, you have come a long way and you are seeing things clearer now and you have balance and have gained some objectivity when you look at what you feel for him, what he has done to you and what you could have with him. So objectivity is GOOD, don't lose the momentum because he ir rocking the boat once again. So what to do. If I were you I would do exactly what you did. Tell him "I do love you and last year I would have given anything to ride off into the sunset with you, but you let me down. You have betrayed my trust and you have hurt me deeply and I cannot risk going through that ever again. What I can give you today is the opportunity to start fresh if you came to me under the ideal and ONLY conditions I will accept another go at this with you, and that is if you D and are ready to build a normal relationship with me free of untied lose ends. What that means is, do what you need to do and we can slowly build our relationship up again and I will be willing to give you another chance" (of course this is should you decide you want this. If you don't then a thanks but no thanks it's just too late for us now, will do If he can't give you this then he is using it as an excuse to ride it out some more and you need to be EXTRA careful this time he doesn't suck you in again.
SnowWhite924 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Once again, well said TomCat. You definately know your stuff. I am still living on conviction! When I have weak moments, I hear your words....conviction,conviction... LonelyLover, listen to TomCat. She's on the money!!
GreenEyedLady Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 You know, I'm not so sure about this one. 1st off, 6 days is not enough time for him to really feel the loss and what it means. 2nd, it's nice for everyone to say he should leave his M with or without the OW, but let's be real, how often does that really happen? Lastly, I think that you already had something in mind when you wrote this, because when I was the OW, there isn't a damn thing anyone could have said that would have made me change my mind about what I wanted with my honey. And oh how they tried. But, I also loved him with all my heart, like I've never loved another man (not even my XH) and I knew he was the one. Because if you don't know he's the one, why do the damage that would be done with him leaving? And then for him to find out that he did it for what? Nothing. I think that is what holds alot of MM back. That they give up so much for nothing. So, I guess you have to do what you think is best for you. You know the man, you know how you feel about him. GEL
TogetherForever Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 You know, I'm not so sure about this one. 1st off, 6 days is not enough time for him to really feel the loss and what it means. 2nd, it's nice for everyone to say he should leave his M with or without the OW, but let's be real, how often does that really happen? Lastly, I think that you already had something in mind when you wrote this, because when I was the OW, there isn't a damn thing anyone could have said that would have made me change my mind about what I wanted with my honey. And oh how they tried. But, I also loved him with all my heart, like I've never loved another man (not even my XH) and I knew he was the one. Because if you don't know he's the one, why do the damage that would be done with him leaving? And then for him to find out that he did it for what? Nothing. I think that is what holds alot of MM back. That they give up so much for nothing. So, I guess you have to do what you think is best for you. You know the man, you know how you feel about him. GEL Ditto!!!!!!!!!!! "Lastly, I think that you already had something in mind when you wrote this, because when I was the OW, there isn't a damn thing anyone could have said that would have made me change my mind about what I wanted with my honey. And oh how they tried. But, I also loved him with all my heart, like I've never loved another man (not even my XH) and I knew he was the one." TF
Tomcat33 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Once again, well said TomCat. You definately know your stuff. I am still living on conviction! When I have weak moments, I hear your words....conviction,conviction... LonelyLover, listen to TomCat. She's on the money!! Thanks SnowWhite, and I am very happy to hear that you are on track and maintaining your focus. Indeed conviction is your drive! Keep up the good work girl!! When I post advice I post on what has worked for me. I was never an OW in terms of being with a man that went back to his W's house at the end of our time together, I was never second fiddle to his life and when he was with me he had moved out to do so. I set the pace and the way things would be with us right from the get-go and did not allow myself to get fully involved with him until he met me half way. I needed to know he was SERIOUS about wanting to leave his marriage and that I was not the the reason nor was I going to be his or any mans side play thing. There was no complying to his way, it was my way or no way. He seperated and moved out within months of us establishing that we were emotionally attached and in love (nothing physical had happened to this point) he dated me out in the open and everyone knew about us except his W, we later broke up and he decided to move back home to his W but he came back to me when he was ready to D. There were no years of a back and forth A, the moment he moved back home I was 100% off limits to him and believe me he tried...This all happened in the time span of two years, 9months or so of which we were broken up and in full NC. So I think even in my own mess of a situation and as lost as I became I did things MY WAY and managed to compromise far less than the typical person who is completely lost in the A does. Don't get me wrong I was lost, I was WAY lost, but it was still "me" underneath it all and I managed to keep my bargaining power pretty much throughout. It is NEVER too late to gain your bargaining power provided you are willing to make personal sacrifices that will hurt and take super human effort to achieve but ultimately will bring you what you need.
mscomplex Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 LonelyLover how I feel for you in this situation. I was once involved with a MM 13 yrs my senior. I was totally in love with him. (or so I thought) At least it felt like love. During our involvement I dated other guys but did not get involved with them physically. However, I would always find a reason to not get serious with them because of all of the needs I felt the MM was meeting. While I initially wanted him to be with me fulltime I got over that in maybe yr 2 and just enjoyed it for what it was. I never really expected him to leave his family for me but think I hoped it on some level. I finally realized that as long as he was in my life I would continue to use him as an emotional/physically/financial crutch and limit myself from finding true happiness with someone who was available to meet my needs completely. I eventually ended things. I missed him terribly at first. We worked together and saw each other every evening after work. We started spending more time together even getting away for long weekends. Truthfully towards the end I think he cared more than I did. That was around 1990-1994. Flash forward to present day: he is still with the woman he was married to when we were together and has had 2 more children. (even though they were not having sex) He has continue to have long term relationships with girlfriends on the side and when I do speak with him (which is rare) he has the same complaints about his marriage and life etc. You continue to stand strong and keep your head up. You will get past this. Just for a word of advice, try not to freely divulge to new guys you may meet that you have spent the last 4 yrs of your life involved with a married man. My experience is that you are judged harshly for this. Stay NC and try to get out and take care of yourself.
me003 Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 I finally realized that as long as he was in my life I would continue to use him as an emotional/physically crutch and limit myself from finding true happiness with someone who was available to meet my needs completely. Just for a word of advice, try not to freely divulge to new guys you may meet that you have spent the last 4 yrs of your life involved with a married man. My experience is that you are judged harshly for this. Stay NC and try to get out and take care of yourself. I am rethinking my relationship with my Xmm with your comment above. Also, TOTALLY off the subject,,, have you dated anyone for long time since your A, and if so did you mention your A after you were involved?
me003 Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 6 days is not enough to realize that you miss someone and that you want to be with them. Do not fool yourself again. I think once you see the papers, which can take anywhere from 2 months to years, then you can open up your heart again. But are you going to be his crutch? can he do this for himself or because you will be waiting for him. Just go on with your life and if in the future you meet when you are both single, then it was meant to be. But just go one with your life and make yourself happy.
White Flower Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 I agree. The thing is, he should be leaving his marriage because he doesn't love his wife anymore and it's not working. If he is going to leave and divorce, he should do it either way, reguardless if you're waiting for him or not. I hope that makes sense to you.. I totally agree. What is wrong with these guys? Are they afraid the laundry will pile up too high in the interim? Come on!
mscomplex Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 I am rethinking my relationship with my Xmm with your comment above. Also, TOTALLY off the subject,,, have you dated anyone for long time since your A, and if so did you mention your A after you were involved? I did mention it to the relationship I was in shortly after the A. He (the new BF) and I dated for 4 yrs. (that seems to be my limit) Anyway, shortly after we started dating the MM called me and I was really mean to him. Later my BF asked me what was bothering me and I told him the exMM called just to say hello and I was really rude and he did not deserve that because our break was not mutual just necessary. The very 1st fight we had he threw that back up in my face that I fooled around with a MM. I have been careful not to really mention it again. I am really selective. I am 41 now and that was during my early/mid 20's. The next relationship was for 3 yrs and I do not think I mentioned it to him. We were engaged to be married but I called it off 1 month before it was supposed to take place. (totally different story ) Other than that no other really long term with the exception of the breakup I am going through now with a guy I was friends with for 20 yrs and he always wanted more. Last June was the 1st time both of us were single and in a position to date so I said ok. We have spent a fabulous yrs together and about 1 1/2 months ago he said he was not sure about wanting to be tied down in a relationship. I am mourning the loss of a relationship as well as friendship. You will get better. I know you will. We all will.
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