Desperado620 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I would be snooping around my husband's computer if I'd found all that, to be sure. In fact, I'd probably be snooping around local apartments if I was in her shoes. Not sure about all specifics of this situation, but if the funds were there and I didn't have a reason I HAD to stay, I'd be trying to get gone. I'm kind of the jealous type though. You're lucky your wife isn't. Good luck.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 The porn thing I would not have a problem with. My boyfriend looks at porn, I don't really care too much. Um... Am I going to have to post on the infidelity forum. You naughty heartbreaker. Now I see what is taking so long for you to ask me to marry you. (Totally crushed). Goddamit, I should be f'n married... So, when are you going to pop the question to the bf? me...for one, I'm a jew so... go ahead, jew-bash me and I'll bop you on the head! Oooooo. I love S&M... Bop away! DNR
Tomcat33 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 do you have a problem with people who are not christian? NOT AT ALL, I have a problem with people who use Christianity to force their overzealous and often times irratic thoughts on others. Very different thing. I have always had a lot of Jewish inlfuence around me though I am Catholic and was even considering converting at one point because I like a lot of the philosophies put forth by that doctrine, I find the attitude laid back but filled with conviction and dignity and I love that about the religion. So if your question was to ask whether I would have problems with someone of your faith the answer is no. I have no problems with anyone's faith. I have problem with the attitude of using god's name in order to propagate tirant philosophies that are not based on any religion at all, they are based on personal unresolved issues.
Author stone22 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Posted August 4, 2008 Um... Am I going to have to post on the infidelity forum. You naughty heartbreaker. Now I see what is taking so long for you to ask me to marry you. (Totally crushed). So, when are you going to pop the question to the bf? Oooooo. I love S&M... Bop away! DNR Ok--- you just proved my point for me on NEO-CHRISTIAN CONSERVITIVES!!!! So now if you actually followed the bible like you are implying that you are what the F**K are you doing?!! You totally discredited yourself and proved my point without me having to say a word!! You are the epidamy of HYPOCRISY!!!! I was going to post a comment saying how I admired your conviction in your belief, but damn! I HAVE NEVER MADE A COMMENT LIKE THAT ONLINE OR IN PERSON TO ANY WOMAN. AT LEAST I AM MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM AND AM WORKING TO FIX IT.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I have a problem with fanatics period. I think everyone has the right to say exactly what is on their mind about whatever it is that concerns them. No one should be stiffled as long as they are not trying to force someone into their point of view. But, everyone one has a wisdom and some insight and is worth being heard out. Now it is up to the individual to agree or disagree. Or accept or not accept. One thing a preach told me about arguing a point... It makes no since to argue if the person you are dealing with isn't on the same level as you... Meaning how can I argue why about a religious point with someone who doesn't even believe? That is one of the reasons why I don't use Bible scriptures here unless needed. But, make no mistake, all my comments come from a Biblical stand point. And I think that is how people need to handle any discussion. Realize who you are dealing with. Find the best way to get your point across. Make sure you are able to back them up when necessary, and then realize when people are just not going to get you and cut it loose. DNR
Author stone22 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Posted August 4, 2008 Then what level are you on? How are the comments you made before on a Biblical level? But I see what you are saying-- you are not on the same level. There comes a time when you do need to cut loose. Kind of like throwing punches in the air... and still think your winning.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Ok--- you just proved my point for me on NEO-CHRISTIAN CONSERVITIVES!!!! So now if you actually followed the bible like you are implying that you are what the F**K are you doing?!! You totally discredited yourself and proved my point without me having to say a word!! You are the epidamy of HYPOCRISY!!!! I was going to post a comment saying how I admired your conviction in your belief, but damn! I HAVE NEVER MADE A COMMENT LIKE THAT ONLINE OR IN PERSON TO ANY WOMAN. AT LEAST I AM MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM AND AM WORKING TO FIX IT. Just because one is Christian does not mean one is dead. Now, this is the issue I have with people such as yourself who want to talk about being a hypocrite... 1. I am not the one who runs around having day dreams about another woman when I am married. I never even did that when I was dating. 2. I am open and honest about such things in my relationships. 3. You are speaking on a subject matter you don't fully comprehend. So before you pass a judgment on rather or not I am being a hypocrite... Ask what is going on. Love and I have an on going flirting joke that we bring up once in a while. I know I am not out to take another man's woman and she does not seem like the kind who would be unfaithful to her man. So, get the answers before you make a judgment. 4. Now if you have a problem with S&M in a marriage and not porn, then maybe you should understand the difference. S&M usually involves the couple, porn is inviting other people into your sexual fantasies. Now if you are going to talk on the subject of not defiling the bedroom in accordance to the Bible... Define what is defiling? What did the Bible actually have written down as to what is to and not go on in the bedroom. I would gladly let you on my understanding from what I have read and discussed with various religious heads on this subject matter. And before I go, point out again every last single hypocritical statement I made in the last or hear if you so wish to. DNR
lovestruck818 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Just because one is Christian does not mean one is dead. Now, this is the issue I have with people such as yourself who want to talk about being a hypocrite... 1. I am not the one who runs around having day dreams about another woman when I am married. I never even did that when I was dating. 2. I am open and honest about such things in my relationships. 3. You are speaking on a subject matter you don't fully comprehend. So before you pass a judgment on rather or not I am being a hypocrite... Ask what is going on. Love and I have an on going flirting joke that we bring up once in a while. I know I am not out to take another man's woman and she does not seem like the kind who would be unfaithful to her man. So, get the answers before you make a judgment. 4. Now if you have a problem with S&M in a marriage and not porn, then maybe you should understand the difference. S&M usually involves the couple, porn is inviting other people into your sexual fantasies. Now if you are going to talk on the subject of not defiling the bedroom in accordance to the Bible... Define what is defiling? What did the Bible actually have written down as to what is to and not go on in the bedroom. I would gladly let you on my understanding from what I have read and discussed with various religious heads on this subject matter. And before I go, point out again every last single hypocritical statement I made in the last or hear if you so wish to. DNR Awww you're married?! I am so upset i thought we had something here
Jersey Shortie Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I disagree most men don't say that and if they did they would say: "my porny use is not out of controlly" :lmao: Sorry I couldn't resist. I know it's juvenile but I just laughed so hard when I read that. Please carry on. Stone can I ask you something? The way I worded it was funny. However, I think you understand what I was getting out. I have never had a man say "yeah, I guess I do look at too much porn". they are always super defensive and use the standard: " I look at porn but it's the "appropiate" amount"... Whatever that means. I tend to thing most men are dependent on porn on some level. Otherwise so many men wouldn't hurt their women like they do for it.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Then what level are you on? How are the comments you made before on a Biblical level? But I see what you are saying-- you are not on the same level. There comes a time when you do need to cut loose. Kind of like throwing punches in the air... and still think your winning. What level I am on? I think about level 5 and have a long way to go. But, you know what, I am going to make it. How are the comments I made before on a Biblical level? They were clean and an innocent joke between to forum associates. Not everything that comes out of a Christian's mouth or head has to be or is going to be Biblical. Exactly, a Christian can be just a flirty, funny, and sexually experimentive as anyone else. There are certain things we can't do like have sex with our relatives, animals, or where human waste and blood are involved. There are a lot of shrouds and mysteries behind the Christian faith that should not be there. God is not suppose to be a mystery, nor his people and their ways. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of things that the churches have to overcome from the past and make a change in the eyes of the world. Lastly, if we want to stay on being a the hypocrite. Not once did I bash you or your situation. I did not make you feel like dirt or curse you out. And it is funny how quickly angry and upset you got. You had a finger pointed at me while not realizing you had three fingers pointing back upon you. Instead of trying to talk bad about someone and calling people things because you don't want to your actions being called wrong... Let me give you a little bit of insight... 1) Your wife told you your actions were wrong WAY before anyone else. 2) Your wife is the one made at you because you are fantasizing about sex with other women (I am sure she knows your not thinking about her when you are watching it). 3) Your wife is the one who feels and tells you it was wrong to lie, mentally cheat, keep these kinds of secret from her, and to make a promise you haven't been keeping. No one needed to tell you were wrong on that because your wife did and you know its wrong in your heart. So, is she a "neo-Christian conservative" because she does not share your point of view on these issues? Your fight isn't with anyone here my friend. The fight isn't with your with "neo-Christian conservatives" who might tell you that porn is wrong or having a mental lover that is not your wife wrong. Your wife already did that job. No your fight is with yourself and what you need to do to save your marriage. Your fight is to determine if your "personal choice" to watch porn is more important than your wife's feelings and then to determine how do you go about getting it out of your life. Your fight is with yourself and why is it another woman is bouncing around your head that is not your wife (I always think about that scene from Devil's Advocate where Reeves is having sex with his wife and having sex with her as if she was that woman he worked with). Granted you did not think of yourself having sex with her, but it was more than enough for you to seek help. The fight is with what are you missing in your marriage and from your wife that you are not talking to her about. Your enemy is not us or "neo-Christian conservatives" the enemy is you to your marriage right now. I honestly do pray you find your answers and your healing. You don't seem like a bad man who set out to intentionally hurt his wife, nor that kind of guy who just doesn't care. And I do honestly pray you and your wife find your way back on the right track to the marriage you wanted. DNR
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Awww you're married?! I am so upset i thought we had something here I have never been married and I am very much single. But, I don't think this is the place to flirt. Stone doesn't get it as a friendly thing. DNR Did you get my PM this morning about another comment you in another room? I made it a PM so that it was not going too far off course of the topic.
lovestruck818 Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 I just want to know why people hate jews so much...as I just heard on the news someone painted a swastika on a nearby elementary school. Makes me so sad that there is still so much hatred in 2008.
Tomcat33 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 The way I worded it was funny. However, I think you understand what I was getting out. I have never had a man say "yeah, I guess I do look at too much porn". they are always super defensive and use the standard: " I look at porn but it's the "appropiate" amount"... Whatever that means. I tend to thing most men are dependent on porn on some level. Otherwise so many men wouldn't hurt their women like they do for it. C'mon Jersey Shortie it was a joke, lighten up. I am quite confident I know what your stance on porn is by now so really there was no need to clarify, all the threads you participate in are ALWAYS about porn and your disdain for it. For a lot of men porn is no more a dependency than reading, television, or shopping is for women. It's escape as a form of entertainment and we all have our poison. Some do downplay an addiction others have EXTREMLY insecure women by their side who cannot handle their men having a little escape now and then and want to pass it off as an addiction. I just want to know why people hate jews so much...as I just heard on the news someone painted a swastika on a nearby elementary school. Makes me so sad that there is still so much hatred in 2008 I already answered your question, start your own thread if you are that inquisitive about the topic because otherwise it has nothing to do with this thread topic.
Tomcat33 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Then what level are you on? How are the comments you made before on a Biblical level? But I see what you are saying-- you are not on the same level. There comes a time when you do need to cut loose. Kind of like throwing punches in the air... and still think your winning. Your last line is SO perfect!! :laugh:
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 The way I worded it was funny. However, I think you understand what I was getting out. I have never had a man say "yeah, I guess I do look at too much porn". they are always super defensive and use the standard: " I look at porn but it's the "appropiate" amount"... Whatever that means. I tend to thing most men are dependent on porn on some level. Otherwise so many men wouldn't hurt their women like they do for it. Interesting point. I think that you do understand why men would get defensive about looking at porn. As far as the appropriate amount- well that would be completely subjective. I would think that if it does come to the point where it is an everyday thing and that is all that one thinks about-- well-- that might be a little unhealthy. I guess obession would be the right word to use. I'm not obsessed. So that is why I would imply that my porn usage is "appropriate". Also- Its not like I am dreaming about "Bunny" all day long! I guess I would characterize is as more of a release. It is maybe a once or twice a week thing-- if even that. Taking porn too far would be trying to contact people online for sex. That is a whole different level and crosses that personal line. What's more is that my wife likes porn. And we do use it as an enahncement. She just doesn't like the online thing (vs mags) because it's too 'real'. And she doesn't like the fact that I tend to hide it. --- maybe that comes from my strict upbringing. (?) It sounds like you may have been burned by this issue in the past. If that is the case then I can understand where you are coming from. Thanks for the feed back!
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 Do you realize that maybe she wouldn't have wanted to waste 10 years with you if she had known. She is probably really torn apart by all the stuff that she has found out since she married you, and feels like you tricked her into marrying you. Ok-- that is going a little far. I can say with 100% certainty that she would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste. I would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste for me. No- she does not feel like I tricked her into marrying her. Yes-- she is torn apart, and it kills me to see her like that. it would kill me to see anyone like that. At the same time though- I am torn apart and having a hard time figuring out what these feelings that I have mean and why I have them. I had a long talk with my wife yesterday after getting some great feed back from all of you and from my counselor. I had completely ignored my feelings for the first 7 or 8 years of our relationship. completely threw my self into the relationship looking for and seeking approval from her and her family. I when she asked me to do things or help out with something, I did it evenif I didn't want to, ignoring how I may have felt about something. Now I have grown up a little and become more of an individual (25) and know how to effectively assert my opinion. (Well, still learning I guees.) So subconciously I was looking for something that I was lacking, (attention to my needs that I felt I wasn't getting) and found this OW that seemingly met those needs. So-- yeah. I think this might be making sense...
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 Do you realize that maybe she wouldn't have wanted to waste 10 years with you if she had known. She is probably really torn apart by all the stuff that she has found out since she married you, and feels like you tricked her into marrying you. Ok-- that is going a little far. I can say with 100% certainty that she would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste. I would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste for me. No- she does not feel like I tricked her into marrying her. Yes-- she is torn apart, and it kills me to see her like that. it would kill me to see anyone like that. At the same time though- I am torn apart and having a hard time figuring out what these feelings that I have mean and why I have them. I had a long talk with my wife yesterday after getting some great feed back from all of you and from my counselor. I had completely ignored my feelings for the first 7 or 8 years of our relationship. completely threw my self into the relationship looking for and seeking approval from her and her family. I when she asked me to do things or help out with something, I did it evenif I didn't want to, ignoring how I may have felt about something. Now I have grown up a little and become more of an individual (25) and know how to effectively assert my opinion. (Well, still learning I guees.) So subconciously I was looking for something that I was lacking, (attention to my needs that I felt I wasn't getting) and found this OW that seemingly met those needs. So-- yeah. I think this might be making sense...
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 OP... Porn.... by itself, a personal choice. In a relationship, another person's feelings should be considered. General rule of thumb is porn shouldn't compromise the intimate R between the parites. If you want your porn more discreet, one word: Usenet OW.... validate your feelings. Don't deny them. You can accept your feelings and still alter your behaviors. Interesting things, behaviors are. They are what others experience in us, as well as one defining factor of how we perceive our interaction with the world. So, with that in mind, it's OK to have feelings of love for the OW; your behavior, as a married man, should be to put your wife ahead of everyone else in your life. Practice that behavior. Even if wife is a PITA right now. I think, if you still have any love for your wife, and practice this behavior sincerely, you'll find, more quickly than you can imagine, that your essential feelings will evolve. Since you attended counseling, where are you with that? I didn't start getting clarity until about three months in, and it took six to start making any meaningful behavioral changes. The most marked changes have taken place recently, during months eight to ten. I'm really getting clarity now. I won't presume to understand why your wife snoops. My first guess is because she still loves you. I stopped "snooping" (for lack of a better word) on my wife (issues not pertinent to cheating) when I emotionally detached from her. I simply didn't care any more. Your wife still cares, IMO. Get moving... You give great clarity to my situation. This was a remarkable post. While I have come the the conclusion that something like Usenet may not be the best choice given the circumstances, I do find your point on validating my feelings for the OW very intriguing. What do you mean by that? As far as where we are with MC, we have only had a 3 sessions so far. It is helping, but feels very, very slow going. With my personal counselor, I have been seeing him for over a year and he has been tremendously helpful. You sound like you have experienced something similar to this and portray a very wise and educated point of view. What was your experience? Thanks again for the insight.
porter218 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Ok-- that is going a little far. I can say with 100% certainty that she would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste. I would not say that the last 10 years have been a waste for me. No- she does not feel like I tricked her into marrying her. Yes-- she is torn apart, and it kills me to see her like that. it would kill me to see anyone like that. ... No I don't think I was going to far. That is exactly how I would have felt If I were her. That is something once said that can never be take back so maybe she wouldn't tell you if she felt that way. If you were hiding porn for all those years and then she finds out after she married you how else is she supposed to see it...you did trick her. You didn't want he to know because you knew it would hurt her, that wasn't fair to her. Maybe she would have not chosen to remain with you in the beginning if she knew you had a compulsion to watch porn every once in a while. And to top it all off you seem to be drawn to other women, I find that not to be a good catch at all.
redfathom Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Your porn usage is only "appropriate" if no one get's hurt by it, but your wife is hurt. When you decided to marry her and asked her to spend the rest of her life with you, you took on a responsability to honor your wife. I always say if love should be anything it should be selfless. Contacting people for sex is not taking porn too far, that's cheating. There are two different things. You can devalue your wifes feelings to make yourself feel better about your actions. Your wife has tried to work with you on this, which may or may not have been an easy thing for her to do and you broke that trust. My H and I are in the same place as you and your wife. My H too looks at porn. it does not bother me as much anymore, because...I just don't care about our relationship as much as I did. When I first found out I was heart broken and when he told me he would stop and I caught him lying, that hurt. Then when he told me he would never stop and I had a choice to accept it or fight with him over it. Well, I did neither, I just turned myself off to him emotionally. If I did nto care about him as much, it did not hurt as much. I also snooped, I had to know what he was looking at. Then if I was in the mood sexually and he wasn't then porn had to be the reason and most of the time it was. Now I don't want him sexually as much as I used to. If he was in the mood and had looked at porn that day, then I was not in the mood. He tried to explain to me how it was nothing personal, that he still loves me and finds me attractive, etc. And I believe him, but I also built my own reality around it and decided that it was the ruin of our relationship. We are still together and he started therapy which is helping us both, but the feelings I once had are not as strong. The trust is gone. He asked me if I would ever trust him again and I said no. Because deep down that's the truth, I will never trust him again. Some of what he did broke my spirit and I can't forgive him for that. The only thing that get's me through tough times now is knowing that whatever happens I will be okay. If he cheats on me that is the end of the marriage and I will move past it, but right now I do still love him and I stay with him because of hope, not trust. Stop giving your wife something to be suspicious about. You're the cause of your problems. Your wife is mearly reacting to actions you took. It's like driving your car into a wall and being upset with the wall for being there... Also, stop using your past as an excuse, you went to counseling for the OW but you can't go for your wife...
redfathom Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 No I don't think I was going to far. That is exactly how I would have felt If I were her. That is something once said that can never be take back so maybe she wouldn't tell you if she felt that way. If you were hiding porn for all those years and then she finds out after she married you how else is she supposed to see it...you did trick her. You didn't want he to know because you knew it would hurt her, that wasn't fair to her. Maybe she would have not chosen to remain with you in the beginning if she knew you had a compulsion to watch porn every once in a while. And to top it all off you seem to be drawn to other women, I find that not to be a good catch at all. Porter is right, that is how I feel/felt. If their had been an OW in my case I would have walked.
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 Quoting Porter No I don't think I was going to far. That is exactly how I would have felt If I were her. That is something once said that can never be take back so maybe she wouldn't tell you if she felt that way. If you were hiding porn for all those years and then she finds out after she married you how else is she supposed to see it...you did trick her. You didn't want he to know because you knew it would hurt her, that wasn't fair to her. Maybe she would have not chosen to remain with you in the beginning if she knew you had a compulsion to watch porn every once in a while. And to top it all off you seem to be drawn to other women, I find that not to be a good catch at all. Yes, you did go too far. Yes you ARE not her. No- she does NOT feel that the last 10 years were a waste. I guess the problem with an online forum is that you don't get the entire picture. Lesson on MEN- Not all men are as devious as you are trying to portray. To trick someone one is on the same lines as lying? Correct? Lying and tricking INTEND to DECIEVE. Did I deceive her before marriage, probably. Did I ever intend to do that, not at all. I was not wanking off before we got married thinking, "oh gee, I dont' ever want my future wife to find out or she won't marry me or think that all the time that we spent together was a waste!" It was a complete, non issue, because I just didn't know and she just didn't know. Thats it, plain and simple. Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. We were young. Married at 22. Come on already! Now- what I did after we were married, yeah- I did decieve her. And yes, I feel absolutely terrible for hurting her. But everything is not as cut and dry as it seems that you think it should be. You don't find me to be a good catch? That's ok. I don't find women who have a vendetta against men to be a good catch either. Besides- I'm married!
redfathom Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Stone, if you know that she is hurting so badly do you continue to hurt her? Why do you continue to look up the OW? You need to put that energy into you current relationship.
Author stone22 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Posted August 5, 2008 Quoting Redfathom Also, stop using your past as an excuse, you went to counseling for the OW but you can't go for your wife... I hope that it is not coming off as though I am trying to use my past as an excuse. My past, like a lot of people- is pretty messed up. I am merely trying to find explanations for my actions so that I can better understand myself. Regardless of who did what to me, I am an adult and do take responsibility for my actions, past and present. No one is forcing me to make these decisions. My wife, the OW-- my past--- they are all related. The OW is was the very loud signal that something was wrong in my relationship with my wife. As I think about it- It was more a symptom than the problem.
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