What does he want

[Nixson]

HANG ON A MINUTE NIXSON are you saying what i think you are saying, that you left W for OW??

 

I left for many reasons : OW-turned-SO, my children's, ex-wife's and my happiness.

 

My marriage had a lot to work on even after 6+ years but if I was the only one that wanted it to work then it would never worked out well or for long.

[astra77]

Wow - Nixon that is awesome. And white flower you got it glamorous but nothing going on in bed. That is my secret hope.. that the jet set lifestyle doesnt keep you warm at night doesnt give a glamorous lifestyle in bed etc etc. And how many years can you spend going to these glamorous parties etc etc with the same people saying the same things going home to a roomate type marriage with a wife who is in one person's words a "relentless bitch" (and he never told me that others who know him socially have said it - its common knowledge) before you look at your life and say is this really how I want to grow old.

 

Its complicated He is older nearing retirement. Money is not everything but leaving just pre retirement knowing that after years of living in total luxury (its unreal - last winter I was invited to a party that was held at one of W's family's homes that is open to the public and it was a real eye opener - so thats where MM hangs out on the weekends...) you will you will suddenly be living on a very tight budget with none of the perks that came with your previous lifestyle, possibly blackballed from that other life.... do you leave a very wealthy woman and your marvelous life and your weekly visits with the grandchildren because you are emotionally starving?

 

Not if you can live in the land of denial without being totally miserable. And good for him. I dont wish the pain of the whole divorce thing on him and how public it would be and the severing of 40 years of marriage etc etc. I just want him to be happy. And I want to be happy. Would be happier with him but if he feels that being there is better than dealing with the change of lifestyle and the conflicts with family and friends etc that would result from leaving, and that any future happiness would be compromised by all he had given up to leave then staying is the right answer for him.

 

But I cant be the band aid that allows him to stay in his marriage. He always says its the rupture of his family relationships that keeps him there but honestly if I won the lottery tomorrow, I think it might be a different story. A part of him believes in all that junk about "marrying well" and would worry that I have no money and he couldnt take care of me (as he would have lost so much in divorce and be paying alimony for the rest of his life). He is nearing retirement, I am not. Its complicated.

 

So I realise he would have to be pretty miserable to leave. And until me he had a good formula going. FWBs until the women wanted more then on to the next - so he had the best of both worlds. Now... the equation has changed.

 

You all have been so helpful. I really appreciate it. It makes it easier to let go in my heart. Being apart is not so useful when you are still hanging on inside hoping against hope. And it makes it difficult to see him when we do run into each other. And that is not good. If I can just keep telling myself this is best for both of us, we can resume contact when I no longer see him as my other half, in a few months time this should be behind me.

 

Thanks again

 

Huny, i get you - i am right where you are now.

 

It hurts so bad to know that you have what he truely wants, yet MM still decides that the risk is too much and he stays in the M. But i love that you get you can not be his band aid - told my mm i am not going to continue being the third person holding his M together. He too never really bad mouthed his w very much, it mostly came from other people, i was told by a number of people that he needed a "new wife".

 

I was physically and emotionally exhausted trying to do everything to make HIS life better, while at the same time, my life was falling apart. I had lost my grip on reality. He had me sucked in to believe that it was "ok" and "normal" to have a w & a g/f - obviously this is not normal.

 

You have done exactly what i did - left someone you loved so deeply as the situation was not healthy FOR YOU. It takes a special kind of person to do this.

 

XMM's w is very manipulative of him - i could have easily played this card to win him over for myself, but i chose not to. He gets it from her - wasnt gonna get it from me. I tried so hard and got so far but in the end, he chose what was right for him and stays M, i chose what was right for me and cut him loose, and by doing that - i have lost everything.

 

Will he contact me again - i highly doubt it as he had VERY low self esteem when we met. He may want to in his heart, but he wont contact me. He is suffering - as you said jj, their M is a cold cold place, i was his warmth, love and affection, the ying to his yang but its a very tough role to play and i wasnt strong enough to continue playing the game. i dont believe he has the strenght to make a decision based solely on what he wants to make him happy. I dont think he has EVER thought for himself in his life, except of course when he decided to kiss me the very first time.

 

You have done the right thing, as much as it hurts, please remember that jj, please remember that.

 

((HUGS JJ ))

[astra77]

I left for many reasons : OW-turned-SO, my children's, ex-wife's and my happiness.

 

My marriage had a lot to work on even after 6+ years but if I was the only one that wanted it to work then it would never worked out well or for long.

 

Sweetie i am so happy that it worked out well for you. You were a brave man to make this decision. I hope it all goes to plan for you and your brand new SO !! all the best

[White Flower]

OP, the best thing that happened to me was when my former OW went NC with me. It made me realise that I wanted more than I could with her so I did the right thing. I'm not saying that it will turn out the same way with you but the only way for you to know is to give him some space.

 

 

 

White Flower, I like how you put it -- glamourous in bed. Ex-wife and I did not have a glamourous life nor sex life but now I know what it's like to have a glamourous sexlife!

Thank you Nixson! Nothing like glam sex to make you feel alive. Wish all spouses knew that. And I'm glad you did what was right for you in the end. That took real bravery.

[White Flower]

Wow - Nixon that is awesome. And white flower you got it glamorous but nothing going on in bed. That is my secret hope.. that the jet set lifestyle doesnt keep you warm at night doesnt give a glamorous lifestyle in bed etc etc. And how many years can you spend going to these glamorous parties etc etc with the same people saying the same things going home to a roomate type marriage with a wife who is in one person's words a "relentless bitch" (and he never told me that others who know him socially have said it - its common knowledge) before you look at your life and say is this really how I want to grow old.

 

Exactly, being glamorous in bed is acheivable to the poorest of the poor. Glamour is in the soul.

[jj33]

Thanks Astra. You may consider yourself lucky as much as it hurts. Total NC gives you a chance to grieve without having him pick at the wound. MM is away now and it is easier. He still found a reason to email me about something (i called his office they could have responded) and instead of a long response to his long email, I just said "thx". This was his first attempt to try to engage (its work right so he thinks has an excuse... ) but I am hanging tough. If the sexual part has been over for a year and we just spent a year doing the emotional A, its been 2 years so its now time to break that too and hopefully in a few months time, start over as friends. We will never be totally out of contact because of work but every day or several times a week is simply not necessary and at this moment in time not healthy for me.

 

I think what hurt the most was the denials - tell me what I have done to upset you we are doing so well at being friends why are you so angry with me... we agreed months ago we were over each other blah blah blah... the king of the land of denial.

 

But I also have to look at myself it says something about me that I spent 2 years as the chief decipherer of the code of the king of the land of denial. If I hadnt been willing to play that role (i know he is in love with me he just cant go there and yes he would admit it from time to time) I wouldnt be in this predicament. You dont suddenly find yourself in a relationship with a man who does not confront his feelings. This is not a newsflash. I guess I had hoped that all this time later he would at least be able to be honest - now that a year has passed since the A ended and there is no real and present danger to his marriage... but he is nothing if not consistent.

 

Lately have been questioning whether I could be married to someone like that. Hes been so badly programmed over the years it would take a lot of reconditioning for him to deal with his emotions in a way that would be productive and happy if he left and we had a chance for a real relationship out in the open. I am not sure he knows how not to compartmentalise and hide. And that could be a real problem. Its like opening the cage door and finding that the zoo animals dont run out. Im not sure he knows how to live in the wild anymore. And the joy has gone out of it. I am not sure we could recapature what we lost last summer. I have so much resentment and so much hurt that letting go of it is a big job. And that is not the way to start a new relationship. Nor is it something he could easily talk through. He wants love and affection and laughter not the negativity that has built up over the past year. I remember one night after one of our false tries to get back together he said why is it whenever you see me you start crying. You used to be so lighthearted and fun... Because the whole situation was so so frustrating.

 

I think that may be part of what contributes to the high failure rate of OP/MP relationships after the MP leaves the marriage. Sometimes it works where the A has not dragged on in such an ugly way that everyone comes out massively scarred but it takes its toll.

 

Hang in there Astra. You are a great inspiration to us all and hopefully to yourself as well.

[GreenEyedLady]

Question in the title: "What does he want?"

 

Answer: sex

 

In the beginning, it's true, that's all he wants.

 

But it doesn't always remain that way.

 

And anyways, how is that that different than single guys?

[twice_shy]

In the beginning, it's true, that's all he wants.

 

But it doesn't always remain that way.

 

Oh the illusion of love can set in with these people until they get bored with that person too.

 

 

And anyways, how is that that different than single guys?

 

Sometimes its not, but almost guaranteed with a MM, or MW for that matter.

 

Difference is, the single guy is available and can be looking for love as well as sex. The MM is initally looking for sex and could develop feelings to that of love for their OW. Again, until they crave the urge to screw someone new again.

 

That 7 year itch is a bitch.

[astra77]

Thanks Astra. You may consider yourself lucky as much as it hurts. Total NC gives you a chance to grieve without having him pick at the wound. MM is away now and it is easier. He still found a reason to email me about something (i called his office they could have responded) and instead of a long response to his long email, I just said "thx". This was his first attempt to try to engage (its work right so he thinks has an excuse... ) but I am hanging tough. If the sexual part has been over for a year and we just spent a year doing the emotional A, its been 2 years so its now time to break that too and hopefully in a few months time, start over as friends. We will never be totally out of contact because of work but every day or several times a week is simply not necessary and at this moment in time not healthy for me.

 

I think what hurt the most was the denials - tell me what I have done to upset you we are doing so well at being friends why are you so angry with me... we agreed months ago we were over each other blah blah blah... the king of the land of denial.

 

But I also have to look at myself it says something about me that I spent 2 years as the chief decipherer of the code of the king of the land of denial. If I hadnt been willing to play that role (i know he is in love with me he just cant go there and yes he would admit it from time to time) I wouldnt be in this predicament. You dont suddenly find yourself in a relationship with a man who does not confront his feelings. This is not a newsflash. I guess I had hoped that all this time later he would at least be able to be honest - now that a year has passed since the A ended and there is no real and present danger to his marriage... but he is nothing if not consistent.

 

Lately have been questioning whether I could be married to someone like that. Hes been so badly programmed over the years it would take a lot of reconditioning for him to deal with his emotions in a way that would be productive and happy if he left and we had a chance for a real relationship out in the open. I am not sure he knows how not to compartmentalise and hide. And that could be a real problem. Its like opening the cage door and finding that the zoo animals dont run out. Im not sure he knows how to live in the wild anymore. And the joy has gone out of it. I am not sure we could recapature what we lost last summer. I have so much resentment and so much hurt that letting go of it is a big job. And that is not the way to start a new relationship. Nor is it something he could easily talk through. He wants love and affection and laughter not the negativity that has built up over the past year. I remember one night after one of our false tries to get back together he said why is it whenever you see me you start crying. You used to be so lighthearted and fun... Because the whole situation was so so frustrating.

 

I think that may be part of what contributes to the high failure rate of OP/MP relationships after the MP leaves the marriage. Sometimes it works where the A has not dragged on in such an ugly way that everyone comes out massively scarred but it takes its toll.

 

Hang in there Astra. You are a great inspiration to us all and hopefully to yourself as well.

 

You hang in there to my friend, DONT GIVE UP.

 

You are smart my dear, smart. You have realised that while it is a painful experience that YOU can change. YOU know what YOU want and YOU realise you can not change the way HE thinks and sees you.

 

Stay tough and ride it out baby, hold on tight and post post post.

 

((((JJ))))

[jj33]

Thanks Astra. And I hope you are doing better today too was reading your posts on your H.

 

I had an epiphany last night - Sex in the City is incredibly instructive. I always thought MM and I were much like Carrie and Mr Big - not that I ever wanted to be Carrie (how embarrassing) but the dynamic is similar. For those fans remember the one where he gets engaged to Natasha and she says why her and not me - and he says it just got too hard between us. That is what I fear would happen if he ever became single. There is just so much water under the bridge. Big did come back in the end (have not seen the movie yet....) and I always thought that like Big, MM would come back in the end.

 

But I was weakening last night - he sent me a legitimate work email well after midnight... on a friday night while on vacation, that was not urgent... and no I am not responding until Monday. And of course I thought oh he misses me...

 

What makes it all so hard is I know he still loves me and since we have never had a proper conversation about anything since we broke up, we cant even have a proper conversation -- just him saying its over we ar friends -- about where he is, what he is thinking and what it would take to make it work between us if he did leave. Maybe that is better then I wouldnt be a taxi transporting him out of his marriage, but I dont think he would leave without one.

 

I hope its not like what happened to my friend. He was in an A woman left him finally now hes leaving his wife and the OW has moved on. Had he gotten his act in gear earlier they would have lived happily ever after....

 

But suddently on the 85th draft of my pathetic little email I thought - what are you doing. The man told you he is over you to stop reading between the lines. Why are you still playing private detective looking for clues so you can go back to him and say see you still love me when are you going to wake up and smell the coffee or even worse use it as an excuse to silently hang on... and wait and wait and wait.. and when I say something to him he only says I hate to see you torturing yourself like this I hate the fact that our relationship has caused you so much pain...

 

Now if someone else told me that I would be embarrassed for her. So what if his behaviour is inconsistent. I need (as my mother would say) to ignore him (she thinks I am incredibly foolish to react like a puppy wagging my tail when he throws me a bone)

 

Why is it that when behaviour is negative but talk is positive we need to look at the actions but when the behaviour has some reason to give hope and the talk is negative we need to look at the talk. It leaves little room for self delusion...

 

But that is how it is. Words and actions have to be consistent. One is no good without the other... and certainly no reason for me to keep my heart tethered to something that isnt happening in the near future if ever. Even Carrie had to wait through Bigs marriage and divorce and and and ... move to Paris... Im not in my 30s I dont have that long to wait.

 

My new thought today is he says hes over me he says I need to move on well then I will stop looking at his behaviour and looking for clues that he means anything different. Until his words and his actions say something else (like I am leaving I still love you and I hope when the dust settles we can be together) I need to ignore the inconsistencies. Its all just too pathetic otherwise.

[wildsoul]

Great post, jj33!!!!

[Nixson]

Words and actions have to be consistent. One is no good without the other... and certainly no reason for me to keep my heart tethered to something that isnt happening in the near future if ever.

 

You are absolutely right there. Words are nothing if they are not backed up by actions. I made my decision because I love OW-turned-SO and I can honestly say that after all that we have been through, I cannot see my life without her. That is the first time I ever felt that way for a woman and I knew I better get something done if I didn't want to lose her forever.

 

I am sure MM will do what's best for both you and him but if there were no actions done after all the things he has said to you then the best FOR YOU is to move on without him in your life.

 

I cannot thank my love enough for showing me this board -- it made me realise the emotions she had to go through, not to mention the pain. I thought what I was going through in my marriage was hard and painful but to read some of the things you ladies go through.... and I am sorry on behalf of MM out there (who are too coward to do something) for putting some of you ladies through this pain.

[jj33]

Thanks Nixson. And you are so wise and you put it so well. I know he thinks the denials are the best thing. He always said he did it to protect me because he didnt want me unhappy and waiting for him. But of course I waited anyway.... and then even after we stopped seeing each other never moved on. Being in such close contact made it difficult for me. But now that the contact has ceased it should be easier.

 

I dont blame him for any of this. I know he has tried to do what he thinks is right for me and right for his family. Right now I am berating myself for ever having gotten involved. When I was not committed to moving on I felt like I would never regret the time we spent together. But it takes a toll. Hopefully when I move past it I will be able to look back and remember the good things. Right now I just feel so foolish. Why did I insist on hanging on - the fact that he has tried to rekindle things numerous times in the past year made me think he wasnt over me .... but now I just feel so pathetic that I was hanging on and hanging on and... now he just feels sorry for me that I havent let go... I keep telling myself I am not to blame - its normal when someone has come back so many times, but... its still pathetic. Much as we never did rekindle the affair, I still never gave up on us in my heart and I really should have.

 

It feels quite unfair that now that after all his back and forth its me who hasnt moved on... on the other hand had I not called him on his behavior over the last while, I think he would have tried to inch back again and we would have been in the same place anyway. I suppose it doesnt matter. I need to try to stop thinking about it. The bottom line is nothing has changed. He is still married and he is still in denial. I hope he does ok without the emotional A, but its not my responsibility. I cant keep being his crutch. I need to look after myself and this is clearly driving me over the edge. I dont want to be angry with him. Its not useful a real waste of energy and just makes me feel worse about myself. But its challenging not to at this point. I feel really messed around and I know he didnt mean to mess me around. But that is how it feels.

[astra77]

You are absolutely right there. Words are nothing if they are not backed up by actions. I made my decision because I love OW-turned-SO and I can honestly say that after all that we have been through, I cannot see my life without her. That is the first time I ever felt that way for a woman and I knew I better get something done if I didn't want to lose her forever.

 

I am sure MM will do what's best for both you and him but if there were no actions done after all the things he has said to you then the best FOR YOU is to move on without him in your life.

 

I cannot thank my love enough for showing me this board -- it made me realise the emotions she had to go through, not to mention the pain. I thought what I was going through in my marriage was hard and painful but to read some of the things you ladies go through.... and I am sorry on behalf of MM out there (who are too coward to do something) for putting some of you ladies through this pain.

 

THANKYOU NIXON THANKYOU

 

Let me say that you are from a different breed, a decent man. Congrats for being in touch with you emotions.

 

Best of luck with your new R - you and your new SO will go far with your fresh outlook.

 

(((HUGS)))

[astra77]

[quote=jj33;1786739

 

It feels quite unfair that now that after all his back and forth its me who hasnt moved on... on the other hand had I not called him on his behavior over the last while, I think he would have tried to inch back again and we would have been in the same place anyway. I suppose it doesnt matter. I need to try to stop thinking about it. The bottom line is nothing has changed. He is still married and he is still in denial. I hope he does ok without the emotional A, but its not my responsibility. I cant keep being his crutch. I need to look after myself and this is clearly driving me over the edge. I dont want to be angry with him. Its not useful a real waste of energy and just makes me feel worse about myself. But its challenging not to at this point. I feel really messed around and I know he didnt mean to mess me around. But that is how it feels.

 

JJ this is great - keep reading what you have written. Own you feelings, but realise that it is NOT fair to you. You have everything at you feet - he doesnt - dont let him ruin it for you just because HE is trapped in a rotten M. If he wants out - he can D her. Plain and simple. He is NOT entitled to a get out of jail free card to come and play with you how he sees fit.

 

This guy is jealous of your freedom, your strength, your future, dont let him take all of that away from you. Dont be this guys band aid holding his M together, that is all he sees you as, someone who makes his life easier - how does this help you?? it doesnt.

 

You are on the right track huny, you will continue to grow and fight your way through this and you will do it all by yourself- without him -and you will come out the other side stronger for it.

 

You are most of the way there, keep going huny, keep going.

[jj33]

Thanks. I am posting and posting and my thoughts are not focused on my work... I have reconnected with old friends in the past few days, reached out to make new friends, lost 10 pounds in the past few weeks (much more to go), trying to eat healthy, I am getting a new haircut etc etc doing whatever I can for me.

 

But its still there in my mind. As WS said even posting so much as wonderful as it is, means I am obsessing. And reading everyone else's stories I am ashamed I am one of those people who a year later is still hung up on something that doesnt exist. its over. Who cares how much he loves me what he thinks why he is doing this etc etc etc etc etc. It all comes down to the same thing he is married and I am not his wife. Its no more complicated than that.

 

I am so used to being in touch with him he had become such a constant in my life even tho we made it a point not to see each other. Talking texting emailing it was almost like having an imaginary friend. But we each knew the other was always there. I was always fine with not talking to him while he was away because I knew hed be back and that he was "there". But knowing that when he gets back this time he wont be there anymore is making me really antsy. Or that he will be but I need to see it differently. React to him differently respond to his communications differently. I think I need to fit some exercise into my day get rid of some of this anxiety. Its never good to wish your life away but I wish I could fast forward to the autumn, being past this part of it. Sorry to ramble thanks for listening.

 

And PS it does work out sometimes my friend who is leaving had the OW with him when he was out for drinks with a few people the other night - so either they have learned how to be friends.... (so quickly) or now that he is planning to leave they may get their happy ending. He says hes not leaving for anyone, he is leaving for himself, but he also said being with someone else made him realize what he wanted his life to look like and he wanted all of his life to look that way. I think he was being discreet, didnt want to admit that they might be getting back together. A month ago I would have thought that could be me in a few months... now I just think good for them but I dont think its going to happen for me. And that really sucks.

[astra77]

jj, do me (and u) a favour - BREATH. Its ok to feel how you are feeling, you are letting go - you are ok. You are normal.

 

I too felt like i was obsessing - i felt like when i was posting i was continuing the A, then realised that it is all part of the healing process, and that i was able to better accept what had happened.

 

You have to understand huny that although the A was wrong - and i know you understand that part - you have to accept that this guy was a major part of your life, maybe even the love of your life AT THE TIME. Go easy on yourself. Im not saying that the A was right - we both know it wasnt, but the fact reamins your feelings were genuine even if his werent - this still hurts me to this day, and probably always will but i am able to better accept the situation, so i feel a little better.

 

Acceptance is a bitter pill to swallow. My xmm may not have loved me enough to leave his w, but i certainly did something for him or the A wouldnt have continued for 6 months and i was the one that ended it - not him. I tried to bail 4 times and each time, he came back to me, within like 5 minutes and the A resumed. He once told me after i tried to bail that he would never let me go, EVER. That scared me a bit, and i knew i had to get out, leave my job and the A. I was scared he would kill me - stupid i know - but i just thought to myself his becoming obsessed with me - and given the fact we were both M, i realised it wasnt a healthy situation to be in. I realised he is not in a healthy M, and that his relationship with me wasnt healthy either.

 

Acknowledge that your feelings have been hurt, own it, BUT let it go. If this prick couldnt see what was right under his nose then thats his problem. While you accept that you have/had genuine feelings, you also have to accept that his feelings were selfish - he may have even loved you to some extent, but not to the extent that was meaningful to you.

 

This balance is very very difficult and takes time. Go easy on yourself.

[jj33]

Astra - you are so so wise. This thing that you posted on sofia's post is it exactly.

 

"If someone is trapped in a cold and heartless M, only THEY are able to break free, nothing YOU can do will make them leave, no matter how good the sex is between you and them. They have to see their M for what it is. Denial of a cold M is partly to blame for them seeking out another partner in the first place and the denial continues throughout the A to stop the guilt creeping in. And when the A is over, they will deny to themselves that the A took place and continue to live their life and deny there is a problem in the M, or they will deny the A ended and convince themself that they can win you back to ease there own suffering WITHOUT a second thought about how this makes the OP feel."

 

It was all about him. When the fear that he was in too deep got to be too much for him and he felt his M was at risk, he would provoke something I would walk away, and then having cooled things off, he would come back and like an idiot I took him back. And during the emotional A when he needed more of my attention he would seek it out to ease his suffering thinking it was fine with me because the A was over. I dont think he has any concept of an emotional A. And its very selfish. And I think he is shocked now that he has a better idea of how badly it has impacted me. He doesnt get why after all this time it still hurts because he thinks his behavior was perfectly fine and friendly.

 

Its great to have close friends and I hope I can count him among them one day but at this point its just too intense. I cant be have that close emotional connection with him right now.

 

And as WS said dont make anyone a priority if you are only an option to them (or something to that affect). Its not right. I was his work wife I put his needs above everything. And I have my own job to do. I cant drop everything to talk to him etc etc just because it suits him. Even if it has to do with work. We dont even work in the same freaking company.

 

Thanks again Astra.

 

I hope he doesnt realize what was under his nose. Its too late. Or it feels that way today and I hope it always does. It took months to be able to sleep on his side of the bed. I missed him so much. But the past year has been so difficult its killed alot of my good feelings towards the past. And as a result I am snippy when I see him. I just have to readjust my attitude so I am fine when I have to see him. I have a few weeks to get strong and then its showtime...