What does he want

[jj33]

I am new to this forum and wondered if anyone might have any insights. I was seeing a MM for a year. We broke up a year ago as it was just too difficult wanting more and not being able to have it. We work in the same industry so are still in touch. We had several false starts at getting back together but each time it was the same old thing. It was too hard to have to sneak around and have next to no time together.

 

I ran into him about a month ago and since then he has been calling me alot (always using work as an excuse) even on weekends. It seemed pretty clear that like the other times he was inching closer to coming back.

 

Part of me thinks he is being selfish, another part of me thinks he still loves me when will he wake up. And when he said some things that were far more than you would say to a friend or colleague I said that to him in not so many words.

 

He said no he is over me and we are friends. I am sorry but I dont think its really possible to be the kind of friends who are in touch every day with someone you had an affair with well at least not if you want to move on with your life.

 

The past year has been so very difficult. And I am so stuck. I know in my heart he loves me but that and a quarter wont buy me a coffee.

 

So I told him I cant be such good friends with him and that the mixed messages are too difficult for me and not to contact me unless necessary. That didnt stick. So I told him again. That he has a marriage he has chosen to stick with and he needs to back off and give me a chance to move on with my life.

 

I get the sense he wants us to be best friends because then even tho he doesnt have the time with me (we make it a point not to spend time together) I am just at the other end of a phone email and in his heart, he knows I still love him. I suspect that makes it easier to stay in his marriage.

 

Id like to be his friend eventually but the 2 months that we had minimal contact were not enough (although he thinks they should have been).

 

Of course the other part of me thinks if I stop being his emotional crutch maybe in a few months he will see that his life isnt so great without me and really think things through. He doesnt have young children and his wife is self sufficient. And if he doesnt I will have moved on more than I have now. I am so angry at myself that I have spent a year going back and forth with this man and still cant seem to shake it and move on. I keep telling myself I cant alter his behaviour but I can alter mine. I dont have to respond to him or to read things into his calls and his emails etc etc. If he is saying hes over me and this is just him being my friend and coworker I need to believe him.

 

Am going crazy never thought it would be so hard to move on.

 

I guess my question is what is he doing? We both know that we cant be together while he is married, so ... what is he thinking. e.g. sending me texts on his anniversary saying he is thinking of me... ??? My patience with how difficult this is for him is wearing thin. He has the power to change things he chose not to.

 

Thanks very much

[LadyDi]

He's trying to keep you on a line. I'm sure he likes the thought of another woman out there that thinks he's great, and is in love with him. Nice ego boost when you can get it. I've had one similar to him. He'll hang around as long as there is a chance. It's really up to you if you want to play the game. Some of us do, some don't. Good Luck!

[jj33]

Thanks. I love him and I know he loves me but I am not interested in being his daily ego massage. A year of that nonsense is enough.

[nadiaj2727]

What he wants is what is best for you... to keep you dangling and keep you there on the side. You are wise to realize you deserve better. Keep on keepin' on, knowing you deserve the very best, you are a priority!

[jj33]

Thanks Nadia. I know you are right. He has always felt guilty that I was in a position where I was getting less than I wanted or deserved. And he couldnt understand why I was willing to accept that.

 

I have twin hopes one that in time when I have moved on that we can be in close touch again and I can enjoy his company when I see him -- cup half full thing - enjoying seeing him when we run into each other, without feeling sorry for myself that we are not building a life together.

 

And your quote is the other hope, that perhaps when he sees what it is like to be without me that he will carefully examine his life and decide that sharing real love is more important than sharing a lifestyle.

 

I know he thinks he is doing the right thing. And I am a bit ashamed of myself that I have balked at that.

 

I know that by moving on and minimizing contact for now I win either way because I am moving forward however difficult it is now. Its like its been over but not really because we are still entangled emotionally even if he wont admit it.

 

I never used to understand why people were still moaning about affairs long after they ended - now I understand.

 

Thanks again.

[astra77]

You have to decide what is best for you in the long term, Ask yourself

 

1. Can you go back to the lying, cheating and sneaking around that comes with an A ?

 

2. Can you handle the pain, hurt and humiliation, the broken promises, the limited time and stolen moments, the five second phone calls that end abruptly coz the W is nearby?

 

I would guess not given the fact you broke it off a year ago. And I would say that the above mentioned are many reasons you stopped in the first place. You can only be swept under the carpet for so long before you actually want to come out in the real world.

 

If you love him thats great - but spell it out in no uncertain terms that unless he leaves his M the is no future for the both of you. PERIOD. Tell him if he wants you that badly, he needs to get a divorce. Period.

 

As hard a road as you have travelled, and will continue to travel, dont let this guy suck you in to what suits him best, what he wants is his to have his cake and eat it too - been there, done that, and im still recovering.

 

Think about yourself, your needs and your wants. You have to love yourself before ANYONE else can truely love you back for who you are, not what they want you to be.

 

You stood up for yourself a long time ago, dont be tempted to fall back into something that feels so easy. Just because its easy, dosent mean its right.

 

((HUGS))

[BklynGuy]

I agree with astra. He has two women that love him, he is in heaven. He has chosen his wife over you. That shows where you belong on his list of priorities. I have been the OM twice and can tell you it hurts and these type of things don't usually go anywhere.

 

Get up and move on. Distance yourself from him, I know it's hard but it's the only way you will move forwards with your life. There are plenty of eligible men out there. Go find YOUR OWN man and leave this one alone.

[jj33]

Thank you Asta and Brooklyn Guy. I am a bit confused by your responses. Perhaps I was not clear in my post - I have left him alone. I am not the one contacting him. I dont chase men and I certainly wouldnt chase a married man. When he really crossed the line with his communications I called him on it because its unfair for him to act like that if he is not ready to leave his wife.

[beachbaby]

He wants to hold on to both worlds it sounds like. You are doing the right thing with NC even though its hard sometimes.

[SeaBrooke]

JJ33.... I have been the OW for the past 13 months. I just blocked his email today. He doesn't know. I tried everything else. If i listen to him I get sucked back in. He too tried the approach of "Just Friends" He can deal with that. Trouble is, it doesn't stay that way, as he can't just deal with that.

 

I can understand your confusion. The MM I had been seeing, says he will never leave his wife. I finally believe that to be the truth. I also had been married before myself, from 1982 until the year 2000. When you are married, you don't leave until you are dam good and ready to do it. I left my marriage for myself, not for someone else. I never cheated either.

 

I believe you love him, I think he tugs on your heart strings in hopes you'll cave. He can tell you he's over you. But unless you are his boss in your industry, I think he could find someone else to answer whatever these emergency weekend questions are.

 

Do what is best for you, not him...Because that is what he will always do for himself... what's best for him, and him alone. It's what he's been doing all along.

 

Take Care and I wish you the very best.

[astra77]

Thank you Asta and Brooklyn Guy. I am a bit confused by your responses. Perhaps I was not clear in my post - I have left him alone. I am not the one contacting him. I dont chase men and I certainly wouldnt chase a married man. When he really crossed the line with his communications I called him on it because its unfair for him to act like that if he is not ready to leave his wife.

 

Its great that you have decided to stay NC - i praise you for that, but he has gotten back in touch with you for his own selfish reasons. You have done well without him, he has obviously not done so well without you.

 

Unless you are both truely on the same page, a R with him will NEVER work. If he wants you he will move heaven and earth to right all the things that are wrong with the current situation you are both in - EG - he will seek therapy, D his W, and most importantly, start to live his life as a single / seperated person. Then and ONLY then can you entertain the idea of re kindling any sort or R with him.

 

Right now he sees you as being the easy solution to his problems, a quick fix. There is no quick fix in this situation. He has previously hurt you, ripped your heart out and the pain HE inflicted on YOU has rotted away to the very core of your soul, this is not a nice thing for YOU to have to go through. And the pain HE caused is something you should remember for the rest of your life.

 

The quick fix for you would be to take him up on his idea, but again, there is no quick fix. There may very well be the chance that things can work out for you, but in order to work things out, you need to WORK at it, you need to both be on the same page and you need to SEE the RESULTS.

 

Unless you tell HIM your conditions, unless you see he ACTIONS are matching his words, then there will never be any hope.

 

Im sorry to say it but some MM/MW see the OM/OW as being a support FOR their M, you make it easier for them to STAY M. OM/OW is the fun, happy go lucky, sexy naughty part of his life, the BS is the babysitter of his/her kids while he is out having fun with you, shes the one that puts food on his plate at dinner time. She is dull and boring and HE NEEDS the fun and excitement YOU bring him to get through and cope with his BORING daily M life. The easiest option for them is to stay M as they loose NOTHING and gain EVERYTHING. He has it sooooo good right now, he will not leave his W. NC will eventually show him that if he wants to leave his BORING M and be with you, he has to do just that....... LEAVE.

[astra77]

Sorry this has got me thinking a bit about myself. I have just discovered that xmm come back - something that i am in NO way prepared for.

 

How did you feel when you left the MM - does it still cause you the pain that it once did? I only ask because have you really expressed to xmm how much he hurt you? I dont mean skimming the surface, but have you given this guy the gory details of what you have been through in the past year, how the A affected you?

 

If he truely loves you for who you are and not just beacause you are his play thing, he will really listen to your words. When he hears what you have been through, he will feel bad, really bad and if he feels so bad, yet still wants to pursue a R with you he will do one of two things, he will leave you the hell alone for good to pick up the pieces of you life that he feels guilty about destroying, or he will leave his w for good to be with you properly.

 

To be honest, he will have to leave one of you - either his W & M or you. Only he can decide which way to go. You have done the deciding, you KNOW what you want - a R in the proper sense - NOT AN A, thats why you left. Dont bow down to him now, if he wants you, he has to catch up to you and FAST, dont go backwards, the only way is FORWARD, tell him HE needs to catch up to where you are at right now. It's the only way it can work, and if it's meant to be it will happen.

 

You done so well and come so far, keep on keeping on and dont look backwards - it will destroy YOU

[pelicanpreacher]

The fact that you currently remain unattached after a year since the break-up is sending a mixed signal to him that you're maybe still pining over him and might be having second thoughts about restarting the affair. The way to send a clear message to him that there will be no future with him if he remains married is to put a great big dog in your yard...ie, begin dating again. It's my bet that once he realizes that you've developed another love interest he'll be forced to **** or get off the pot because now he must face the fact that he really has something to lose in maintaining the status quo.

[Mino]

The fact that you currently remain unattached after a year since the break-up is sending a mixed signal to him that you're maybe still pining over him and might be having second thoughts about restarting the affair. The way to send a clear message to him that there will be no future with him if he remains married is to put a great big dog in your yard...ie, begin dating again. It's my bet that once he realizes that you've developed another love interest he'll be forced to **** or get off the pot because now he must face the fact that he really has something to lose in maintaining the status quo.

That was a great post, I like the dog idea!:laugh:, not heard that one before, your right, though...

[jj33]

I have no thoughts of going back none whatsoever. The A is over and that is that. There is no danger there. Its just painful to have him contacting me the way he does thinking he is wasting precious time (neither of us is young) and life is short.

 

I would love nothing more than to meet someone else it just hasnt happened. And he has no idea whether I am seeing someone else or not. We dont discuss my life at all.

[astra77]

I have no thoughts of going back none whatsoever. The A is over and that is that. There is no danger there. Its just painful to have him contacting me the way he does thinking he is wasting precious time (neither of us is young) and life is short.

 

I would love nothing more than to meet someone else it just hasnt happened. And he has no idea whether I am seeing someone else or not. We dont discuss my life at all.

 

You must still love him terribly otherwise this would hurt a little but not too much.

 

Has he asked you to be friends or does he want to re ignite your affair?

 

Maybe you need to ask him to tell you EXACTLY what he wants and go from there.

[jj33]

Thanks. I do love him very very much. And that is why i need the distance from him now much as it disappoints him.

 

He wants to be friends - apparently he thinks its perfectly normal to text a friend in the middle of your own anniversary party and tell them you are thinking of them xxx (uh huh) he is the master of denial.. if he admits to me he has to admit to himself and then he might actually have to face up to his feelings

 

So he does all these things and then when I mention that his behaviour is very confusing for someone who says he is over me and that we must put the past behind us... he is shocked - its been over for ages, we are great friends what's wrong?

 

That is why I had to call a time out. He makes it seem like I am misreading perfectly normal friendly behaviour and if he is right then I need perspective, if not at least I can get some distance from it. Its just not good for me and keeps me hooked in. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany and decides he can leave I cant be in such close touch with him until I am really over him. Its too hard.

 

I dont want to be disloyal I know its difficult for him too but he has made a choice, I shouldnt have to suffer for it.

 

Thanks Astra.

 

ps what is interesting is I am not the exciting part of his life or was not. Their life is very glamorous - his time with me was normal quiet time and even since we ended the A and were "friends" we talk mostly about work stuff I try really hard not to let the conversation stray to anything else.

[jj33]

and Astra you are so right - in my case he has all the glitter and glamour but he doesnt have the emotional stuff - his marriage is a cold cold place and tho we no longer see each other by keeping in close contact he gets the emotional fix that makes staying more bearable. I think its harder now. Before he was used to the way things were and now that he has been in a relationshp with real warmth its harder for him to get by without it. But I cant be the emotional band aid that allows him to stay. Its too difficult for me.

[Mickey Blue Eyes]

Sounds like you know exactly what will work for you and what won't. Good luck.

[White Flower]

Thanks. I do love him very very much. And that is why i need the distance from him now much as it disappoints him.

 

He wants to be friends - apparently he thinks its perfectly normal to text a friend in the middle of your own anniversary party and tell them you are thinking of them xxx (uh huh) he is the master of denial.. if he admits to me he has to admit to himself and then he might actually have to face up to his feelings

 

So he does all these things and then when I mention that his behaviour is very confusing for someone who says he is over me and that we must put the past behind us... he is shocked - its been over for ages, we are great friends what's wrong?

 

That is why I had to call a time out. He makes it seem like I am misreading perfectly normal friendly behaviour and if he is right then I need perspective, if not at least I can get some distance from it. Its just not good for me and keeps me hooked in. Unless he suddenly has an epiphany and decides he can leave I cant be in such close touch with him until I am really over him. Its too hard.

 

 

 

ps what is interesting is I am not the exciting part of his life or was not. Their life is very glamorous - his time with me was normal quiet time and even since we ended the A and were "friends" we talk mostly about work stuff.

This one is very good. He has the gift of confusing a woman who loves him. He likes the FWBs who actually love him because it feeds his ego. He is committed to the whole 'friend' idea because that takes away his responsibility should you expect him to leave for you in the future. He is working toward a FWB sitch and believe me, he is counting on you to get physical with him again.

 

If you're OK with that, go ahead; enjoy it even. But he won't ever give you true love or the kind of relationship you yearn for.

 

ps

My exMM also has a 'glamorous life' with his W. But I was glamorous in bed. You definitely gave him something that he is still chasing you for after all this time.

[Nixson]

OP, the best thing that happened to me was when my former OW went NC with me. It made me realise that I wanted more than I could with her so I did the right thing. I'm not saying that it will turn out the same way with you but the only way for you to know is to give him some space.

 

ps

My exMM also has a 'glamorous life' with his W. But I was glamorous in bed. You definitely gave him something that he is still chasing you for after all this time.

 

White Flower, I like how you put it -- glamourous in bed. Ex-wife and I did not have a glamourous life nor sex life but now I know what it's like to have a glamourous sexlife!

[astra77]

and Astra you are so right - in my case he has all the glitter and glamour but he doesnt have the emotional stuff - his marriage is a cold cold place and tho we no longer see each other by keeping in close contact he gets the emotional fix that makes staying more bearable. I think its harder now. Before he was used to the way things were and now that he has been in a relationshp with real warmth its harder for him to get by without it. But I cant be the emotional band aid that allows him to stay. Its too difficult for me.

 

I once told my mm that he had every guys dream life - he said "no i haven't" i said yes you have, you have a w & kids at home and w at work (me) he looked like he was going to pass out from shock, as if he was in denial. I think they are in denial to a certain degree, it may be a way they cope to stop the guilt - who knows.

 

The think that has hurt me the most is i gave him all of me and i only got half of him in return. I can understand to a point why he would stay in his m - kids were the excuse, mind you he wasnt thinking of the kids he has with his wife when he was shagging me on a weekend away.

 

I have no doubt he is suffering - he has lost the warmth, passion and understanding i gave to him - but let him suffer, he should for what he has done to me.

[astra77]

OP, the best thing that happened to me was when my former OW went NC with me. It made me realise that I wanted more than I could with her so I did the right thing. I'm not saying that it will turn out the same way with you but the only way for you to know is to give him some space.

 

White Flower, I like how you put it -- glamourous in bed. Ex-wife and I did not have a glamourous life nor sex life but now I know what it's like to have a glamourous sexlife!

 

HANG ON A MINUTE NIXSON are you saying what i think you are saying, that you left W for OW??

[jj33]

Wow - Nixon that is awesome. And white flower you got it glamorous but nothing going on in bed. That is my secret hope.. that the jet set lifestyle doesnt keep you warm at night doesnt give a glamorous lifestyle in bed etc etc. And how many years can you spend going to these glamorous parties etc etc with the same people saying the same things going home to a roomate type marriage with a wife who is in one person's words a "relentless bitch" (and he never told me that others who know him socially have said it - its common knowledge) before you look at your life and say is this really how I want to grow old.

 

Its complicated He is older nearing retirement. Money is not everything but leaving just pre retirement knowing that after years of living in total luxury (its unreal - last winter I was invited to a party that was held at one of W's family's homes that is open to the public and it was a real eye opener - so thats where MM hangs out on the weekends...) you will you will suddenly be living on a very tight budget with none of the perks that came with your previous lifestyle, possibly blackballed from that other life.... do you leave a very wealthy woman and your marvelous life and your weekly visits with the grandchildren because you are emotionally starving?

 

Not if you can live in the land of denial without being totally miserable. And good for him. I dont wish the pain of the whole divorce thing on him and how public it would be and the severing of 40 years of marriage etc etc. I just want him to be happy. And I want to be happy. Would be happier with him but if he feels that being there is better than dealing with the change of lifestyle and the conflicts with family and friends etc that would result from leaving, and that any future happiness would be compromised by all he had given up to leave then staying is the right answer for him.

 

But I cant be the band aid that allows him to stay in his marriage. He always says its the rupture of his family relationships that keeps him there but honestly if I won the lottery tomorrow, I think it might be a different story. A part of him believes in all that junk about "marrying well" and would worry that I have no money and he couldnt take care of me (as he would have lost so much in divorce and be paying alimony for the rest of his life). He is nearing retirement, I am not. Its complicated.

 

So I realise he would have to be pretty miserable to leave. And until me he had a good formula going. FWBs until the women wanted more then on to the next - so he had the best of both worlds. Now... the equation has changed.

 

You all have been so helpful. I really appreciate it. It makes it easier to let go in my heart. Being apart is not so useful when you are still hanging on inside hoping against hope. And it makes it difficult to see him when we do run into each other. And that is not good. If I can just keep telling myself this is best for both of us, we can resume contact when I no longer see him as my other half, in a few months time this should be behind me.

 

Thanks again

[twice_shy]

Question in the title: "What does he want?"

 

Answer: sex