Whipping out the *Rules* of Dating

[Mary3]

Question for guys :

 

Do you believe that those Don Juan Books ( and others ) are for men who have * lost out * alot on the dating scene, so they resort to the web sites that teach a man to wait 3 days before calling , never show her you think shes attractive, and all the other rules ?

 

Meaning either this : Is he a *loser* who had to go to all those sites and now he practices all of this in hopes of playing some kind of game. ?

 

Or do you subscribe to certain dating behaviors , such as the 3 day wait , or calling when you clearly like her and would like to tell you had a nice time ?

 

Whats wrong with dropping the games and telling her she is *special* or attractive ( exp ) sooner rather than later ?

[xpaperxcutx]

Don Juan books are just another way for publishers to capitalize on the whole dating market. Men needn't resort to such books if they have confidence in themselves when approaching an attractive woman. It's just most men faced more rejections than they can handle and they have low self esteem, they turn to the next best thing, the internet. He can hit on as many woman as he want with the face to face rejection he so despises.

[jerbear]

Do you believe that those Don Juan Books ( and others ) are for men who have * lost out * alot on the dating scene, so they resort to the web sites that teach a man to wait 3 days before calling , never show her you think shes attractive, and all the other rules ?

I never did the Don Juan books or stuff. I think they are a waste of money in general. It may help some people.

 

Meaning either this : Is he a *loser* who had to go to all those sites and now he practices all of this in hopes of playing some kind of game. ?

n/a

 

Or do you subscribe to certain dating behaviors , such as the 3 day wait , or calling when you clearly like her and would like to tell you had a nice time ?

Sometimes I do the 1-3 wait delay because I have to do "jerbear" things like own friends, laundry, personal stuff, life, independence, etc...

 

Also I would not call her if I didn't like her. If I call her more than I call my mom in a week, that means she is "special." I don't call my mom more than once every few weeks.

 

Whats wrong with dropping the games and telling her she is *special* or attractive ( exp ) sooner rather than later ?

Well last time I've dropped the games, she dropped me. Didn't know if she freaked because I said she was "special" or "loved her" Hence I don't say it if I don't have to. Some games have to be played. Guys have to maintain their independence and be a guy.

[Prodigal Princess]

Some games have to be played. Guys have to maintain their independence and be a guy.

 

100% agree with this.

 

Any guy who is too keen in the early stages, I kick to the curb.

 

Only insecure girls need validation from guys they are dating.

[pioi]

Question for guys :

 

Do you believe that those Don Juan Books ( and others ) are for men who have * lost out * alot on the dating scene, so they resort to the web sites that teach a man to wait 3 days before calling , never show her you think shes attractive, and all the other rules ?

 

Meaning either this : Is he a *loser* who had to go to all those sites and now he practices all of this in hopes of playing some kind of game. ?

 

Or do you subscribe to certain dating behaviors , such as the 3 day wait , or calling when you clearly like her and would like to tell you had a nice time ?

 

Whats wrong with dropping the games and telling her she is *special* or attractive ( exp ) sooner rather than later ?

 

He's not a loser, if he realizes that he's not successful with women in his current stage, and is seeking help, it should be something that you respect. Some guys are so close minded, that they blame their failure with women on many other things, but this guy actually had the guts to admit that he's not successful and is wanting to fix that anyway possible.

 

The thing with dropping the game, is based on the concept of people wanting things they cannot have. When a girl is interestd in you, its because you've put yourself as the prize, and she wants that prize and she's working for it. If you give it to her by saying "i love you", she'll first be flattered then lose interest immediatly. Its like wanting the new iPod thats out, if you get it, you'll first be very interested in it, then lose interest and think of it as nothing special anymore.

[Mary3]

I actually find it a * turn off * when a guy waits x amount of days to call you because he believes he needs to * make you wait * for some mistaken belief that you will yearn for him .

 

I think it's nice when he gives you a follow up call and tells you he enjoyed the date. I mean how hard is that or how risky is that to tell the girl he liked the evening and would like to plan another date ?

 

For me , when I see the games , my reaction is to lose interest. The very thing he tried to create has backfired.

 

Isn't life too short for this ?

 

As far as validation , if you like someone , does it make you lose your testicles by admitting to her that you DO ?

 

I know some men will continue to follow their own rules. But I think most women are aware of the games and call back times.

 

Why must it be games played ?

[OpenBook]

If I'm not into a guy, it doesn't matter if he waits 1 day or 36 to call me. I'm still turned off when he calls.

 

Conversely, it's a little different. If I AM into him, the longer he waits to call, the more reserved and cautious I am with him... and the longer I make HIM wait for a second date.:D:D

[GoodOnPaper]

Honesty and straightforwardness are great -- from a position of confidence. Any uncertainty or neediness throws things off. I'm one of those guys who lost out a lot on the dating scene, and it's very unfortunate that the internet was a few years too late to help me out. While I wouldn't be able to pull off many of the PUA rules to the letter, just the understanding of the social principles at play in flirting, dating, etc. would have made a HUGE difference for me.

[Mary3]

Okay * back in the day * it worked like this. You liked a guy , he liked you , you both smiled and approached eachother. You started out by being asked out by him , you both had a great time.

He asked you out again. You had fun again and started getting attached.

He asked you out again and pretty soon you were both like a couple.

He asked you at some time if you wanted to go steady ( or be exclusive ) and it was almost a silly question to ask because you both were happy to be with eachother. You went out for many months or years and some of you got married. Or years later you both changed and ended it.

 

Fastforward : To the last 5 years of dating .

 

He likes you and flirts with you. You smile back.

 

He asks for your number and you think he will call by maybe the next day. He does not call for 4 days. He chit chats and maybe he asks you out . Maybe he doesn't.

 

You go out on a date that might likely be delayed ( some unforseen thing came up and he could not make the date ) but you hang in there to see if the first date . You go on it.

 

After the first date he says he will call you. You don't wait by the phone , you go out with friends and see if he does call within a week. He calls and you are on your next date .

 

Maybe you are growing closer now but maybe he tries for an early sack dance. Maybe you decline because you want to know him better. You notice he only calls when it works best for him. He offers you a late night drink. You decline because it could be booty call.

 

He tries again and again but only calls when it works for him.

 

What ever happened to 10 years ago ?

 

As for women playing games. If we are not interested we SHOULD tell you on that first date . I have practiced that one and do it more nowso then before. Someone told me tell him the truth.

 

So are you really losing your testicles to reveal that she's pretty , or sexy , or just awesome ?

 

Despite what you believe and hear , we dont want to grab your nut sack and twist it to keep you under control because we want to hear all the good stuff to run you into wussyhood....

[CommitmentPhobe]

I don't subscribe to a particular rule, but there is a thing such as timing. You don't blow your load after 30 seconds when you've just met someone.

[Scottdmw]

I actually find it a * turn off * when a guy waits x amount of days to call you because he believes he needs to * make you wait * for some mistaken belief that you will yearn for him .

 

I think it's nice when he gives you a follow up call and tells you he enjoyed the date. I mean how hard is that or how risky is that to tell the girl he liked the evening and would like to plan another date ?

 

For me , when I see the games , my reaction is to lose interest. The very thing he tried to create has backfired.

 

Isn't life too short for this ?

 

As far as validation , if you like someone , does it make you lose your testicles by admitting to her that you DO ?

 

I know some men will continue to follow their own rules. But I think most women are aware of the games and call back times.

 

Why must it be games played ?

Mary, if it is important to you that you talk to a guy soon after a date, why don't you call him?

 

Personally I would like nothing better than to call back the next day, but I feel I just cannot do it because there's too much danger the girl will lose interest.

[Woggle]

I hate games and I never play them. If I like a woman I believe in telling her and I will call her when it feels right. Both genders play them though and during my single days if a woman plays them I decided she was not worth the effort. Why do people make things more complicated and stressful than they have to be? I think that many men who do play these games have gotten their heart crushed by a woman and have now decided to try a different approach but who want a woman that is attracted to games anyway.

[lino]

Why must it be games played ?

 

here's your answer:

 

100% agree with this.

 

Any guy who is too keen in the early stages, I kick to the curb.

 

Only insecure girls need validation from guys they are dating.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how old you are Mary3 but in my age range (27) 99% of women play these games and expect the guy to be good at playing them otherwise he isn't worthy of them.

I once thought the same way you do too but there's just no way around it and I realise that now so I play games too, as much as I hate doing it...

[JohnnyBlaze]

Mary, to answer your question, the books are okay for fine tuning (as 20409 said), but they don't do anything for the majority who think they need the books. Books can do a lot for people, but they can't do what those people need - building experience. It's like anything else; you can read all you want, but unless you try it, you'll never gain confidence in doing something. Books don't build balls.

 

I've never really bought into the 'rules'. Some are good guidelines, but most, IMO, are just ways to maintain that you're the one 'in control'. Fortunately for me, I don't play by those rules anyway, so they don't bother me much. If I like a girl, I'll tell her. If I want to let her decide what we're gonna do, I'll let her call the shots for the night. Sometimes it has positive effects, sometimes it doesn't. But if I'm going to get burned, I'd rather do it for doing my own thing than for following what everybody else does. Being sheeple sucks.

 

Fastforward : To the last 5 years of dating .

 

He likes you and flirts with you. You smile back.

 

He asks for your number and you think he will call by maybe the next day. He does not call for 4 days. He chit chats and maybe he asks you out . Maybe he doesn't.

 

You go out on a date that might likely be delayed ( some unforseen thing came up and he could not make the date ) but you hang in there to see if the first date . You go on it.

 

After the first date he says he will call you. You don't wait by the phone , you go out with friends and see if he does call within a week. He calls and you are on your next date .

 

Maybe you are growing closer now but maybe he tries for an early sack dance. Maybe you decline because you want to know him better. You notice he only calls when it works best for him. He offers you a late night drink. You decline because it could be booty call.

 

He tries again and again but only calls when it works for him.

 

What ever happened to 10 years ago ?

Correction:

 

He likes your profile and sends you a wink.

 

12 days later, after getting through the other 5 million guys who've flooded your inbox, you respond. You're pretty certain that Brad Pitt isn't the one who sent the wink, so you ask the guy for his real picture. After going through George Clooney, two A&F models that you remembered seeing on a billboard last week, and a Harry Connick Jr., you finally get a picture that might possibly be the real him. A classy picture of him at a college frat party, in his boxers, drunk out of his tree with a half-empty bottle of Jose Cuervo in one hand, and a cute, equally dressed and drunk chick (who he swears he doesn't even remember, let alone still screw around with every Wednesday when her husband is off at bowling) in the other.

 

He messages you through the site again, asking for your MSN address. You think he'll IM you, but he doesn't for the next four days. When he finally does, "sorry, went up North to the cottage with my buddies"...even though it's the middle of winter.

 

He emails you late one Friday, asking if you want to go out that night. Of course, you don't get it in time, because you made plans two days ago and are out having fun with your friends right now. When you reply the next morning, saying "sorry, I was out", he gets defensive and thinks you're playing him.

 

After not talking for another four days, he IM's you like nothing happened. You two finally set something up.

 

Once you finally see him, you realize that his profile appears to be somewhat inaccurate. That 20-something you thought you were dating? He's dyslexic. That's the only possible explanation for some the numerous errors in his profile, like stating that he was born in 1986, when he must've really meant to say he was born in 1968, or that he weighs 182 rather than his true weight of 281. But you're a nice girl; you go anyway.

 

Date goes mediocre, but there's no plan on your part for a repeat. At the end of the night (which was early, but still felt like it forever), he gets a hug, but that's it...despite his repeated attempts to get you to kiss him. You take a much needed hot shower just to get the feeling of him off you, pour a bottle of wine, and watch a movie.

 

While checking your email, you get a message from him. He's thrilled about how well the date went, and how you two seemed to really connect (what date was HE on??), and how he knows you feel the same as him; you two can't wait to see each other again. You don't respond, but you don't delete it, either. After you tell your girlfriends what happened, you'll have to show them this; otherwise they'll never believe this guy!

 

Two hours later, he notices you still haven't responded. Knowing how much you're into him, he sends you a sexy picture of himself. Well, it's his penis, actually. And it's a black guy's penis. The guy you were out with tonight was as white as snow. What the hell's this guy doing collecting pictures of penises?? Ugh! What a creep! You block this guy from your profile and your email, and immediately email your friend at the law firm, asking how you go about filing for a TRO.

 

 

 

 

 

Despite what you believe and hear , we dont want to grab your nut sack and twist it to keep you under control because we want to hear all the good stuff to run you into wussyhood....

OOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

 

I'm not sure how old you are Mary3 but in my age range (27) 99% of women play these games and expect the guy to be good at playing them otherwise he isn't worthy of them.

I once thought the same way you do too but there's just no way around it and I realise that now so I play games too, as much as I hate doing it...

No wonder I'm not good at it. I'm just not a player.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Okay * back in the day * it worked like this. You liked a guy , he liked you , you both smiled and approached eachother. You started out by being asked out by him , you both had a great time.

He asked you out again. You had fun again and started getting attached.

He asked you out again and pretty soon you were both like a couple.

He asked you at some time if you wanted to go steady ( or be exclusive ) and it was almost a silly question to ask because you both were happy to be with eachother. You went out for many months or years and some of you got married. Or years later you both changed and ended it.

 

Fastforward : To the last 5 years of dating .

 

He likes you and flirts with you. You smile back.

 

He asks for your number and you think he will call by maybe the next day. He does not call for 4 days. He chit chats and maybe he asks you out . Maybe he doesn't.

 

You go out on a date that might likely be delayed ( some unforseen thing came up and he could not make the date ) but you hang in there to see if the first date . You go on it.

 

After the first date he says he will call you. You don't wait by the phone , you go out with friends and see if he does call within a week. He calls and you are on your next date .

 

Maybe you are growing closer now but maybe he tries for an early sack dance. Maybe you decline because you want to know him better. You notice he only calls when it works best for him. He offers you a late night drink. You decline because it could be booty call.

 

He tries again and again but only calls when it works for him.

 

What ever happened to 10 years ago ?

 

As for women playing games. If we are not interested we SHOULD tell you on that first date . I have practiced that one and do it more nowso then before. Someone told me tell him the truth.

 

So are you really losing your testicles to reveal that she's pretty , or sexy , or just awesome ?

 

Despite what you believe and hear , we dont want to grab your nut sack and twist it to keep you under control because we want to hear all the good stuff to run you into wussyhood....

 

I SOOOOO could have written this myself. I totally agre,, I don't understand what happened or why dating got so complicated. Not sure whether it's because I'm older and so are the guys or if it's because I live in a different part of the country...I feel your pain though!

[Cherry Blossom 35]

That was supposed to be "totally agree" not "agre''

[Mary3]

I don't subscribe to a particular rule, but there is a thing such as timing. You don't blow your load after 30 seconds when you've just met someone.

 

You mean you dont blow your load as in sex or you do blow your game ?

[Mary3]

If I'm not into a guy, it doesn't matter if he waits 1 day or 36 to call me. I'm still turned off when he calls.

 

Conversely, it's a little different. If I AM into him, the longer he waits to call, the more reserved and cautious I am with him... and the longer I make HIM wait for a second date.:D:D

 

Exactly, because if he is making you wait and you both like eachother its like just distasteful and disrespectful to you. * because * if I see the rules being played out I know he can stick to his rules but I won't go out with him again .

 

The only thing you are supposed to * wait * for is sex when you know he has real feelings for you. If you give in quick ( sex ) he will likely lose interest. Everyone has their own timetable for sex but its better to hold off a little to be sure he does care...

[Mary3]

Mary, if it is important to you that you talk to a guy soon after a date, why don't you call him?

 

Personally I would like nothing better than to call back the next day, but I feel I just cannot do it because there's too much danger the girl will lose interest.

 

Its important to receive some form of communication that the date was fun afterwards .

I know you just wondered if you should do it ( call or text ) I say Yes . If the very thing you are doing is to try and create mystery and not call at all then we mysteriously lose interest in you.

[Mary3]

I hate games and I never play them. If I like a woman I believe in telling her and I will call her when it feels right. Both genders play them though and during my single days if a woman plays them I decided she was not worth the effort. Why do people make things more complicated and stressful than they have to be? I think that many men who do play these games have gotten their heart crushed by a woman and have now decided to try a different approach but who want a woman that is attracted to games anyway.

 

Well Woggle I am amazed at your answer. Still got some 90's left in you

[Mary3]

here's your answer:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how old you are Mary3 but in my age range (27) 99% of women play these games and expect the guy to be good at playing them otherwise he isn't worthy of them.

I once thought the same way you do too but there's just no way around it and I realise that now so I play games too, as much as I hate doing it...

 

Its being played because you are conditioned to it. Your friends are too. I am older and we didn't play games like that in my 20's, I promise you this stuff is NEW ! Its so new I fell across the Don Juan sites and about lost my lunch.

 

The only answer , ( just like for the FWB craze ~ yea I did that too ) is to erradicate it. Don't accept it as the norm. Turn it back to what it really means to date someone and CARE. Just like FWB , say NO to the guys that created it and teach them how to DATE a woman again

[Mary3]

Mary, to answer your question, the books are okay for fine tuning (as 20409 said), but they don't do anything for the majority who think they need the books. Books can do a lot for people, but they can't do what those people need - building experience. It's like anything else; you can read all you want, but unless you try it, you'll never gain confidence in doing something. Books don't build balls.

 

I've never really bought into the 'rules'. Some are good guidelines, but most, IMO, are just ways to maintain that you're the one 'in control'. Fortunately for me, I don't play by those rules anyway, so they don't bother me much. If I like a girl, I'll tell her. If I want to let her decide what we're gonna do, I'll let her call the shots for the night. Sometimes it has positive effects, sometimes it doesn't. But if I'm going to get burned, I'd rather do it for doing my own thing than for following what everybody else does. Being sheeple sucks.

 

 

Correction:

 

He likes your profile and sends you a wink.

 

12 days later, after getting through the other 5 million guys who've flooded your inbox, you respond. You're pretty certain that Brad Pitt isn't the one who sent the wink, so you ask the guy for his real picture. After going through George Clooney, two A&F models that you remembered seeing on a billboard last week, and a Harry Connick Jr., you finally get a picture that might possibly be the real him. A classy picture of him at a college frat party, in his boxers, drunk out of his tree with a half-empty bottle of Jose Cuervo in one hand, and a cute, equally dressed and drunk chick (who he swears he doesn't even remember, let alone still screw around with every Wednesday when her husband is off at bowling) in the other.

 

He messages you through the site again, asking for your MSN address. You think he'll IM you, but he doesn't for the next four days. When he finally does, "sorry, went up North to the cottage with my buddies"...even though it's the middle of winter.

 

He emails you late one Friday, asking if you want to go out that night. Of course, you don't get it in time, because you made plans two days ago and are out having fun with your friends right now. When you reply the next morning, saying "sorry, I was out", he gets defensive and thinks you're playing him.

 

After not talking for another four days, he IM's you like nothing happened. You two finally set something up.

 

Once you finally see him, you realize that his profile appears to be somewhat inaccurate. That 20-something you thought you were dating? He's dyslexic. That's the only possible explanation for some the numerous errors in his profile, like stating that he was born in 1986, when he must've really meant to say he was born in 1968, or that he weighs 182 rather than his true weight of 281. But you're a nice girl; you go anyway.

 

Date goes mediocre, but there's no plan on your part for a repeat. At the end of the night (which was early, but still felt like it forever), he gets a hug, but that's it...despite his repeated attempts to get you to kiss him. You take a much needed hot shower just to get the feeling of him off you, pour a bottle of wine, and watch a movie.

 

While checking your email, you get a message from him. He's thrilled about how well the date went, and how you two seemed to really connect (what date was HE on??), and how he knows you feel the same as him; you two can't wait to see each other again. You don't respond, but you don't delete it, either. After you tell your girlfriends what happened, you'll have to show them this; otherwise they'll never believe this guy!

 

Two hours later, he notices you still haven't responded. Knowing how much you're into him, he sends you a sexy picture of himself. Well, it's his penis, actually. And it's a black guy's penis. The guy you were out with tonight was as white as snow. What the hell's this guy doing collecting pictures of penises?? Ugh! What a creep! You block this guy from your profile and your email, and immediately email your friend at the law firm, asking how you go about filing for a TRO.

 

 

 

 

 

OOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

 

 

No wonder I'm not good at it. I'm just not a player.

 

I laughed soooo hard at what you wrote It is sooo very very true alot of what you have on there.

 

Did you mention the * mysteriously disappear stuff * where one day they never call again ?

Like they vanished off the earth.

But you see they are still alive and fine , lol.

Thanks to the virual *smorgesboard* of women on there , these men are likely talking to 25 girls at once , while they sit in their sweaty boxers and gulp beer down while they adjust the strap to their size 55 waist boxers. Weighing well over 350 lbs but tell you they are * average *

 

I think the internet pivoted forward in a positive way with the dating sites but also has crashed and burned and many people knowing they are # 233 on they guys favorites are walking away from the dating sites in droves...

[Mary3]

Not always, I know men who have had sex quickly with a girl and then went into long term relationships with the women. You're generalizing here, Mary.

 

Holding off for sex is also playing a game, it's not natural is it? You can lambast men for playing games when you are doing the samething, it's hypocritical. My friend had sex on the first date because it felt natural to him and guess what, three years later he is still in a relationship with the girl. That's not the case for everyone, but "holding off from sex" doesn't guarantee the man will stick around for you to become sexually engaged or he could leave you after he has had the sex that he wanted.

 

Nothing is set in stone in this life.

 

By quick I mean second date sex. Or something very fast .

 

While it is * true * that fast sex can mean a relationship , the downside is that you must get to know someone in many ways before you take the intimate step.

I know, I used to believe you and have sex quick. Unless you take into account the rare breed of couples that have sex quick and go along and have a great relationship.

I * know * this is possible but for the vast majority of women she won't really know if he truly has feelings for her by the second date . Thats why the couple takes time to get to know eachother .

 

Survey says a man will WAIT until she is ready. He develops some feelings and then it feels right to them both. I know , I know, we all have done it and sometimes wondered what went wrong with the quick sex , the fast infatuation and the crash and burn of something way too fast.

 

Its not about a * game * It is NO game. It is to protect the girl from getting her heart broken because you know women develop bonding from the act of sex.

 

When you think of games , you think of men or women who dodge the calls , dodge the date requests , dodge the denial of committment.

 

Sex is entirely in a different category. Yes, there are women who use sex as a weapon or punishment. Then there are those women who TRULY enjoy sex and feelings ( me ) I don't play with a mans heart in the sex arena. But I learned in life you don't want to open your legs , get some quick fun and then he's gone. If he waits until you are ready ( which is shorter than you think ) then hopefully he will want YOU and not just what you have in the nether regions...

 

The you have women who have zero libido. They go out with a guy and they have sex .... Then the sex drops off. Is that a game ? I wonder ? Is that a medical condition or is it lack of caring because she got the man. How long can she keep him doling out the sex ?