Dark-N-Romantic Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Some people love to hurt themselves. Some people love be hurt by others. And others love to hurt others. Being the other person comprises all of these things. Heart I hope one day you will find yourself and really think about what your about. Then, maybe you will change your name to Wholehearted. If I can get you to answer these questions... Maybe they will give yourself and others some better insight about those who chose to play the role of the other person. 1. What were you taught about adultery by those you respect? 2. What qualities do you look for in a man and from your romantic relationships? 3. How does a married man play in to these qualities and relationship? 4. Have you told those you love and respect about your relationship? 5. Do you think you could and would look his wife and kids in the eyes and tell them that you deserve his love and they don't? 6. Would you explain to them how this great and good this loving man he is? 7. How about if you were in the wife's place or the kids... How would you feel if the one you loved and trusted behaved so selfishly and shamelessly? 8. What would you say to another person in your same shoes? DNR
GreenEyedLady Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Some people love to hurt themselves. Some people love be hurt by others. And others love to hurt others. Being the other person comprises all of these things. DNR This is a complete generalization. How many people love to hurt others? Why don't you ask the OP's on this forum instead of deciding what people are all about?! Do you love to hurt others? Because quite frankly much of your advice is meant to hurt. It's obvious you know NOTHING about OP's. You've never been one, have you? So until you have, keep your generalizations to yourself. Life isn't as black and white as you'd like to think. GEL
Tomcat33 Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Don't bother GEL it's a completey waste of time, we all just ignore now, it's not going away so ignore is best eventually it will get tired of dead air. It's "one track mind", ya know? Hearthbroken - Hi I'm sorry you are hurting. I would like to ask you what do you see yourself getting out of this relationship with this man, HB? Can you see it changing at all? Do you see any different outcome at all if you continue on that path you are on with him? It seems he reaches out to you when he needs a fix and then leaves you out in the cold to deal with the incredible pain of being shut out. You say the pain is starting to become unbearable, so tap into those feelings and ask yourself why, really why you wan't to keep hurting as you are, in the hopes of what? You know I am not a fan of the one size fits all response on how to handle an A that has stopped progressing, but in this case clearly progress is not anywhere near the horizon so when you plateau in agony, that's your cue to evaluate the big picture.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 This is a complete generalization. How many people love to hurt others? Hmmmmm. Yeah, I guess the pain I felt growing up without a father (who was a big enough cheater that my mom left him). I guess my stepfather did not hurt me when he would say and do mean and spiteful things to my mother (one night he decided to call my mom and harass her and told her that she was basically another piece of ass to him, I had to ask my mother (at age 16) was it my fault.) And the stories my mother has told me know as an adult about him, she is lucky she did not get AIDS from him (that is what finally killed him). Affairs is about doing something one want's, deliberately, knowing that it will hurt someone else. They know they are hurting their spouse... That is why they try to keep it a secret (or unless they are one of the shameless kind and just let it show). They are hurting themselves because they don't know what that other person may be like or that they may be carrying something home to their wives. They don't really care about the other person because a person who REALLY loves someone they would not hide it or that person under a rock. They would not feel shame by their actions. Why don't you ask the OP's on this forum instead of deciding what people are all about?! First and foremost... That was a personal observation I see about affairs. Not based on some fantasy of what they do, but having lived among one. Having to deal with them with my troops, family members, and friends. Then, there is also my personal beliefs, which is backed by my religious beliefs. So, yeah, my opinions about affairs stands. Now if you accept tha reasoning or not, that's on you. Your feelings and thoughts are in my realmm to decide, nor are mines yours. You have your own feelings and thoughts about affairs. You stress them how you so choose to. I might not like it. And I may and some times do state my objections as many have done to mine as well. This is why it is called a forum. Do you love to hurt others? Because quite frankly much of your advice is meant to hurt. Truth, honesty, and doing what is right is sometimess painful. And while I don't love to hurt others, for those who continue to do wrong and they suffer for it, I shed little tears for. So, now if my loving to tell the truth, being honest, and trying to do what is right, then yes I love to hurt others. If being straight forward and getting a person to think about their actions by asking themselves questions is hurtful, then yes I love to hurt people. Of course too those who are looking for justification for their wrongful acts and not getting it to me, it does hurt. But, don't mistake my asking revealing questions as intents to hurt. And lastly, those who willingly engage in an affair are the last people to talk about me hurting someone. They go about being all happy not caring or caring little for all those around them they hurt. It's obvious you know NOTHING about OP's. You've never been one, have you? So until you have, keep your generalizations to yourself. A married woman once made the mistake and thought I would be one of her playtoys or diversions from her facing whatever issues she was having in her marriage (and this is what adultery is about). She told me she was divorced the night we had sex and then the next day she told me she was married... I being one who does not have one nightstands, took hold of my self-respect, my morals, and remembering that I would not want another man to do this to me, I ended it that same day. Yes I was lonely. The sex was AWESOME! The best I had ever had. And she was banging. But, she was not for me. I take serious the vows. I and many like me know that these vows are not just between the husband and wife, but for all who come across the married couple. And lastly, I would much rather be alone and dealing with that pain than the pain of knowing my selfish and illict desires are contributing to the destruction of someone else's relationship. Let some other fool play that role, but I am not the one. Life isn't as black and white as you'd like to think. Life may not be black and white, but doing what is right or wrong is. While we may be able to understand the reasons why and even forgive or mette out the appropriate punishment for it, but it does not make it any less wrong. Now if we subscribe to the golden rule of do onto others as you would have them do onto you... I SERIOUSLY doubt that we would put affairs as one of the things we would want done onto us, so why would we do it to someone else? DNR I did expect a lot of other people to understand.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Some times the best advice is given by getting the seeker to know that they know the answer within. All they need to do is ask and answer the questions they refuse to. DNR
Lookingforward Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Hmmmmm. Yeah, I guess the pain I felt growing up without a father (who was a big enough cheater that my mom left him). I guess my stepfather did not hurt me when he would say and do mean and spiteful things to my mother (one night he decided to call my mom and harass her and told her that she was basically another piece of ass to him, I had to ask my mother (at age 16) was it my fault.) And the stories my mother has told me know as an adult about him, she is lucky she did not get AIDS from him (that is what finally killed him). Affairs is about doing something one want's, deliberately, knowing that it will hurt someone else. They know they are hurting their spouse... That is why they try to keep it a secret (or unless they are one of the shameless kind and just let it show). They are hurting themselves because they don't know what that other person may be like or that they may be carrying something home to their wives. They don't really care about the other person because a person who REALLY loves someone they would not hide it or that person under a rock. They would not feel shame by their actions. First and foremost... That was a personal observation I see about affairs. Not based on some fantasy of what they do, but having lived among one. Having to deal with them with my troops, family members, and friends. Then, there is also my personal beliefs, which is backed by my religious beliefs. So, yeah, my opinions about affairs stands. Now if you accept tha reasoning or not, that's on you. Your feelings and thoughts are in my realmm to decide, nor are mines yours. You have your own feelings and thoughts about affairs. You stress them how you so choose to. I might not like it. And I may and some times do state my objections as many have done to mine as well. This is why it is called a forum. Truth, honesty, and doing what is right is sometimess painful. And while I don't love to hurt others, for those who continue to do wrong and they suffer for it, I shed little tears for. So, now if my loving to tell the truth, being honest, and trying to do what is right, then yes I love to hurt others. If being straight forward and getting a person to think about their actions by asking themselves questions is hurtful, then yes I love to hurt people. Of course too those who are looking for justification for their wrongful acts and not getting it to me, it does hurt. But, don't mistake my asking revealing questions as intents to hurt. And lastly, those who willingly engage in an affair are the last people to talk about me hurting someone. They go about being all happy not caring or caring little for all those around them they hurt. A married woman once made the mistake and thought I would be one of her playtoys or diversions from her facing whatever issues she was having in her marriage (and this is what adultery is about). She told me she was divorced the night we had sex and then the next day she told me she was married... I being one who does not have one nightstands, took hold of my self-respect, my morals, and remembering that I would not want another man to do this to me, I ended it that same day. Yes I was lonely. The sex was AWESOME! The best I had ever had. And she was banging. But, she was not for me. I take serious the vows. I and many like me know that these vows are not just between the husband and wife, but for all who come across the married couple. And lastly, I would much rather be alone and dealing with that pain than the pain of knowing my selfish and illict desires are contributing to the destruction of someone else's relationship. Let some other fool play that role, but I am not the one. Life may not be black and white, but doing what is right or wrong is. While we may be able to understand the reasons why and even forgive or mette out the appropriate punishment for it, but it does not make it any less wrong. Now if we subscribe to the golden rule of do onto others as you would have them do onto you... I SERIOUSLY doubt that we would put affairs as one of the things we would want done onto us, so why would we do it to someone else? DNR I did expect a lot of other people to understand. A ONS does not equal an 'affair', no matter how much you may think it does
Tomcat33 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 A ONS does not equal an 'affair', no matter how much you may think it does OMG I was thinking THE EXACT SAME THING. and for someone who does not have one night stands he seemed to know an awful little about this woman he slept with to go ahead and have sex with her. No wonder he walked away, who wouldn't from a one night stand! Furthermore what does the first post he posted here giving the OP the third degree asking all these questions about why get involved in affairs have to do with the OP's post!?!? She is asking us for help on how to get over this guy, she is in a LOT of pain, in pipes in DR to give her the third degree on affairs and morals? Seriously, give it a rest already! Going into this whole discussion on affairs and why they are wrong has JACK to do with the orignial post, basically the usual! It is SO completely after the fact to discuss why affairs are bad...anyway... It's like telling a drug user who wants to quit abusing, "well drugs will destroy your life, they are just bad all around" yeah we already established that, we are here for the cure not the preventative measures to something that is WELL undergone.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 A ONS does not equal an 'affair', no matter how much you may think it does Well I have my faith that tells me other wise. The Bible (and for those who dont believe, neither does any dictionary for those who don't believe) not distinguish the number of times of the sin. So, yeah, I had an affair. You were really trying to stretch to find something wrong with my statement, weren't you? Oh. We should also stay on topic. We don't want to get flagged. DNR And I am very flattered by your attention Love and Tom.
Tomcat33 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Well I have my faith that tells me other wise. The Bible (and for those who dont believe, neither does any dictionary for those who don't believe) not distinguish the number of times of the sin. So, yeah, I had an affair. You were really trying to stretch to find something wrong with my statement, weren't you? Oh. We should also stay on topic. We don't want to get flagged. DNR And I am very flattered by your attention Love and Tom. You didn't have an affair a married woman lied to you about her marital status and you slept with her, and then you walked away. BIG difference and it's not that I don't respect your experience but let's get some prespective here shall we? I make that distiction for you not to antagonise you but because in order for you to understand what any of the people turning here are going through you really do need to have a thorough grasp on the level of emotional turmoil these people are experiencing when they come here. It is not as cut and dry as it appears looking from the outside in. The pain you felt seeing your mother hurt by your step dad's actions is comperable though not in context by virtue of the actions and roles in the situation, but in FEELING, to what these people here are experiencing. If you could only at least try to understand that, it will give you some prespective. No one is asking you to feel pitty or even accept their actions just understand their pain, confusion, and the complexity of internal battle they are experiencing.
Lookingforward Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Well I have my faith that tells me other wise. The Bible (and for those who dont believe, neither does any dictionary for those who don't believe) not distinguish the number of times of the sin. So, yeah, I had an affair. You were really trying to stretch to find something wrong with my statement, weren't you? Oh. We should also stay on topic. We don't want to get flagged. DNR And I am very flattered by your attention Love and Tom. in the context of affairs on this site, it doesn't, I'm sorry - I think it is you that is making the 'stretch' I think the mods said it best in the thread on loveshack questions - "posting to engage rather than preach"
Angel1111 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Whoa! You're in a little pickle, girl. I feel for you but I think one poster said it best about taking your power back. Forget about how this has panned out, just think about getting control back. If you let this go on, it is going to kill your soul. I wouldn't recommend NC because I'm not a fan of it. It seems to make people crazy, and then it makes them cave in, and then it makes them feel bad about not being able to stick with their decisions. It seems to just be a way of adding more insanity to crazy feelings that are already there. I'm not going to tell you that MM is a horrible person but he doesn't show a lot of character in many ways. But the real problem here, from your perspective, is that this stuff makes you feel bad and you're trying to make sense of this current MM, opposed to the other MM he once was to you. Something has changed and it's really hurting you. You haven't screwed up completely and it's still not too late to stop letting yourself be controlled.
GreenEyedLady Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Hmmmmm.....really long post that didn't answer the question which was how many people LOVE hurting people.... You made a judgement, that OP's love hurting themselves and others. You didn't get what I was saying at all. But apparently you just love seeing your own words and print. And now I'm done. GEL
Dark-N-Romantic Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 You made a judgement, that OP's love hurting themselves and others. You didn't get what I was saying at all. But apparently you just love seeing your own words and print. And now I'm done. GEL Is the OP happy with what is going on? Did she not choose to let him back in? If she really hated what it was doing, especially after it happened the first time, she must have some love something about the situation she is in again. Its like how a person messes with a cut or injury to see how much hurt they can take. They know it hurts, they know they shouldn't do it, but they do it anyway. That is the context I was getting at. So, I got what you said. But know if you agree or disagree with my way of thinking, does not make it any more or less valid. DNR Cool. We are not going to see eye-to-eye on this.
pelicanpreacher Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 I'd like to give you a "peep-see" into the soul of the man you've fallen in love with but, before I give you my thoughts, let's harken back to your previous thread and recount the evaluation provided by Lakesidedream. He pointed out the predatory manner in which this man groomed your relationship at great length in his explanations and I'd like to expound upon them. Your MM first started out by benignly taking you under his wing in the guise of friendship only to methodically manipulate you into an emotional affair that seemlessly matriculated into physical contact with the single minded intent to take your body and put another notch on his belt. You have so far been a reluctantly unwilling partner in his dance of deception by listening to the little voice in the back of your head that saw signs that said "something ain't right", however, the allure of what might be kept you curious and hopeful enough to step a little deeper and extend a little farther into the emotional traps he laid with every sly game he played! Its been difficult for you to discern the full truth of his actions because of how deeply you were enveloped in his mascarade but, from my vantage point outside looking in, its all been an elaborate "dog and pony" show, presented not for your amusement but instead, for the sole purpose of conquest. Let's discuss some of these games he played to see if we agree or agree to disagree, okay? The first overt move to gain a closer bond with you was to put on the charade of loudly arguing with his wife on the phone time and again when he's supposedly taking the phone into the other room to talk in private. He MEANT for you to hear him and feel the emotion in his voice when discoursing his dissatisfactions with wife to plant a seed in you of dissention between them and grow a weed of hope for a relationship with him based upon the compatability you felt throughout your ongoing "friendship". It also opened the door to invite you to develop a conspiritorial sense of secrecy between the two of you which fostered a "we" against "her" mentality to promote your competitive sense of superiority against her and develop a growing urge of loyalty for him. You bit that weak worm hook line and sinker, didn't you? I'll bet when you discussed your problems with him he always gave you his rapt attention while demonstrating his command presence and most serious and authoritative demeanor to give you confidence and security in following his lead on resolving your issues, didn't he? It made you feel more sure of yourself and planted a second seed of thought that nurtured your musings about a possible future together with him, right? I'm wouldn't even go into how lame his proposition to "make you orgasm through intercourse or he'd leave you alone" until you made a statement to the effect "maybe I should have just slept with him because, after all, we've done everything else". Judas Priest..earth girls are easy! His most recent attempt to overwhelm you with his ardor walking in the door was a strong-armed attempt at pushing you beyond your reasoning with a dominant force of will and MAKE YOU SUCCUMB to his advances without crossing the line of violence. A less mature man might not have had the self-control to stop himself before the situation evolved into an all out sexual assault. His desire for conquest is beginning to win the battle against his will to maintain control and that makes his determination far more treacherous because of his age and experience. Although he refrained from taking you the way he wanted, if he can manuever you into another compromising situation in the future, he won't make the mistake of allowing you a choice again. You don't see this sexual overture as particularly aggressive but, more romantic instead, don't you? The restraint he's shown in this instance has given you such a sense of security and confidence in your ability to control whatever situation he throws at you that you still don't believe that he'd really ever hurt or take advantage of you, do you? You're fantasy schoolgirl desires to be kissed by him has allowed him to take enough liberties with your person that he feels somewhat entitled to fully consumate his conquest of you. Right now, he's frustrated to the point of incredulous that you've continued to resist him which makes his determination to completely have you all the more stronger. The question that begs though is, after that..what then? What is that voice in the back of your head really saying about him ever leaving his wife and family for you, hmmmmm? Don't think for a moment that your nightmarish journey is over even if you take a hard stance on NC because "something wicked this way comes" and he has many more devious games to play! Keep your guard up because this could get ugly. Still don't know what I'm talking about then here's a little ditty for you while you contemplate the thought... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3f8L7Ruuk!
Author xxxheartbrokenxxx Posted August 1, 2008 Author Posted August 1, 2008 xxxheartbrokenxxx, I think this situation is maybe pointing to something in you that needs to be fixed. You idolized a 50(close to 50?) year old man who's cheating on his wife and kids and sounds like a creepy, egotistical jerk. Why? Not everyone will fall for this kind of man. I've noticed that woman with a certain background or bad self-esteem are more likely to get involved with these kind of jerks. I think it might help you to just focus on yourself, maybe get some therapy, and try to see what's going on. Do you really want to end up with someone, from what I can tell so far, is an abusive jerk who will manipulate you and make you feel like crap if you don't constantly stroke his ego? If I may ask, how old are his kids? Yes I do have self esteem issues - more about that later. But like I said in my previous thread - he seemed really lovely, was a rock to me for over a year & took an interest in my life. I found him fascinating - hes very intelligent, interesting, sucessful, really attractive, likes the same music as me - we had loads in common & got on so well - finished each others sentences in fact. Ive only seen his true colors since we started getting pysical & even more so now hes moved out of the houseshare & hes lost the ready access to me. His kids are 16, 12, 8 and 4 by the way.
Author xxxheartbrokenxxx Posted August 1, 2008 Author Posted August 1, 2008 He has the nerve to tell you that what you see with your own eyes isn't true? Now please tell me that your sense of humor is giving you giggle fits over that one. C'mon girl... I don't care how heartbroken you are. That is comedy gold! Yeah even though Im in pieces over the situation this does make me laugh - I mean its absolutely ludicrous! Ive seen how big it can go as Ive obviously made him climax in other ways - and dont get me wrong its the perfect size - bigger than average but not 10 inches like hes trying to tell me it is!
stillafool Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Yes I do have self esteem issues - more about that later. But like I said in my previous thread - he seemed really lovely, was a rock to me for over a year & took an interest in my life. I found him fascinating - hes very intelligent, interesting, sucessful, really attractive, likes the same music as me - we had loads in common & got on so well - finished each others sentences in fact. But he is not yours! He belongs to his wife!
Tomcat33 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 But he is not yours! He belongs to his wife! Excuse me, he may belong WITH his W, but he does not belong TO anyone. Unless of course he is a slave.
stillafool Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Excuse me, he may belong WITH his W, but he does not belong TO anyone. Unless of course he is a slave. Well at least you acknowlege that!
wildsoul Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Excuse me, he may belong WITH his W, but he does not belong TO anyone. Unless of course he is a slave. LOL...You have a gift for saying things that are both astute and hilarious.
Lucky_One Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 "He also made me feel pressured - he used to go on about how he has managed to make all of his previous women reach climax & said if he couldnt make me climax from intercourse alone he would assume we were not compatible & end the A!" Wow. He's a special sort of d**k.
Angel1111 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Don't think for a moment that your nightmarish journey is over even if you take a hard stance on NC because "something wicked this way comes" and he has many more devious games to play! Keep your guard up because this could get ugly. I love hearing comments about this kind of thing from men because they have a perspective that most of us women just don't have. Based on what you're saying, it seems that this guy has no genuine feelings for her and is just trying to get a woman in the sack. If that is so, then one thing that I think a lot of women would ask is, if he's not crazy in love with her, why would he waste so much time and energy on getting her in bed? Why not just go to a bar and pick up one of those women you see hanging out there that are just looking for someone to sleep with? Why did this MM pick HER of all people to do this with? I think this is the where most women lose the thread - by misinterpreting his attention on her to mean true love.
wildsoul Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 I love hearing comments about this kind of thing from men because they have a perspective that most of us women just don't have. Based on what you're saying, it seems that this guy has no genuine feelings for her and is just trying to get a woman in the sack. If that is so, then one thing that I think a lot of women would ask is, if he's not crazy in love with her, why would he waste so much time and energy on getting her in bed? Why not just go to a bar and pick up one of those women you see hanging out there that are just looking for someone to sleep with? Why did this MM pick HER of all people to do this with? I think this is the where most women lose the thread - by misinterpreting his attention on her to mean true love. DITTO DITTO DITTO I was thinking the same thing while reading pelicanpreacher's enlightening post this morning. Whether he's completely acurate or not in his speculation, I got a lot out of it because 1. his thoughts seemed more than plausible and 2. I personally don't think that way (hence don't see these things coming as well I should perhaps.) Having a male insight here is facinating. PP: I'm looking forward to reading more from you.
angie2443 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Yes I do have self esteem issues - more about that later. But like I said in my previous thread - he seemed really lovely, was a rock to me for over a year & took an interest in my life. I found him fascinating - hes very intelligent, interesting, sucessful, really attractive, likes the same music as me - we had loads in common & got on so well - finished each others sentences in fact. . I'm actually not a big therapy fan, but in your case, I think you should give it a try before you get into any more relationships. You might save yourself (and maybe others) a lot of heart ache. You say he's very intelligent. How so? What specifically do you guys have in commen? I'm not trying to grill you. I just know how easy it is for an older person to have a younger person idolize them. I'm wondering what it is you see in him. I'm asking for specifics because it is easy to give generalizations and they often don't really mean anything. Anyways, I hope you do some soul searching to find out what's going on with you. Not you and him- just you.
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