Morality and judgmentalness

[OWoman]

What if we lived in a society where it was socially and legally acceptable to to have extra-marital relationships, EVEN THOUGH it hurt the poeple involved. Then the judgment would be that it WAS acceptable and alright.

 

Some of us do.

 

People get hurt driving, too, but that's still allowed. People get hurt playing sport, and that's celebrated. People get hurt at work, but that hasn't been banned. Some movies are so bad my eyeballs hurt, but their producers are still allowed to make them.

[Lyssa]

Some movies are so bad my eyeballs hurt, but their producers are still allowed to make them.

 

:lmao:

 

That reminds me of The Happening. My eyes hurt so bad from watching it.

[noforgiveness]

Some of us do.

 

People get hurt driving, too, but that's still allowed. People get hurt playing sport, and that's celebrated. People get hurt at work, but that hasn't been banned. Some movies are so bad my eyeballs hurt, but their producers are still allowed to make them.

 

so people get hurt all the time so what's the difference? Is that your attitude?

 

You don't think hurting someone emotionally and intentionally by lying and deceiving them is wrong? You are ok in your life with people lying to you? You have no problem with that?

[Tomcat33]

But she'd first have to kill the bear to get its hands to use as a weapon, which would mean finding a bear, tracking it and killing it, and then amputating the hands. By which time I reckon the bear hunting licence authority has tipped off the CH and he's moved to a country that doesn't have bears. And we all know how difficult it is to smuggle bear limbs through customs, so hed be pretty safe.

 

PAHAHAHAHA :lmao::lmao: yes bear hands can be not only difficult to smuggle across a boarder they are impossible to find.

 

 

If your right about your last statement. Then, we ALL are judgmental the moment we state anything positive or negative to someone. And if you claim that judgments should not be made in such things as adultery. Then, no one should pat anyone on the back for doing great in school. We should not have jurors and judges. We should not have laws and vows for they give us a guideline on which to judge others. We should not have the news and books that makes one question and measure and judge their actions against their intents. So, what is your suggestion if everything you say is judgmental?

 

DNR

 

 

Oh I see, on the one hand you take the time out to maticulously outline a distinction between jugemental and nonjudgemental and then you admit everyone does it and a person who is involved in an affair cannot go unjudged.

 

Terrific, now that you understand the contradiction in your words and accept that you judge rather than support, then why defend yourself when people tell you you are doing so?

 

What you should learn is not the difference between judgemental and nonjudgemental but the difference between support and judgement.

 

Anywone can judge, can you actually reach out and touch someone though? You that you speak of god's message of what your spirituality dicates...

 

God intended for you to reach out not to judge and cast condemnation on on fellow brothers and and sisters, so please stop using his name in vain when you try to justify your actions in propagating this "moral sermon" you constantly try to feed down everyone's throat.

 

Unless of course this god you keep making reference to is the god you yourself think you are, then I can understand that laws of "your god" are not akin to the laws of THE god.

 

 

 

In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. (Mohandas Gandhi)

[Tomcat33]

so people get hurt all the time so what's the difference? Is that your attitude?

 

You don't think hurting someone emotionally and intentionally by lying and deceiving them is wrong? You are ok in your life with people lying to you? You have no problem with that?

 

 

The same could be asked of you don't you think that hurting someone emotionally and intentionally when you pick on them via judging insulting words and criticism is wrong?

 

Or what you are trying to say is that it's ok to be wrong in some instance but not in another?

[OpenBook]

OK, never mind the society-sanctioned concubines described in the Bible. I can't even remember how many wives AND concubines King David had. That was perfectly fine in those days. No judgments or condemnations there.

[Woggle]

They also sacrificed virgins to the gods back in those days but I don't see anybody here advocating that. I have no issue with open relationships or any of that but I believe it is wrong to betray and lie to somebody that trusts you to not betray them. It's not the sexual morality but the deception and complete lack of regard for it might affect the betrayed person that makes me against cheating. I just don't feel it is right to treat another person like that.

[OWoman]

so people get hurt all the time so what's the difference? Is that your attitude?

 

No. Nor was that what I said. My point was that, in the civilised world, the state doesn't concern itself with matters of individual risk or morality. It allows for freedoms and expects responsibility. In some countries, the inhabitants are treated like grown-ups. I'm lucky enough to live in one.

 

You don't think hurting someone emotionally and intentionally by lying and deceiving them is wrong?

 

The only people I know who hurt others intentionally are schoolkids, and who lie and deceive with intent are lawyers.

 

You are ok in your life with people lying to you? You have no problem with that?

 

I accept that, in a capitalist society, people will lie to me. It's the nature of the economy. So I expect to hear lies and don't believe what I'm told until I've verified it independently - if it matters - or shurg it off as immaterial if it doesn't.

 

I'm a grown-up. I don't believe in Father Christmas or the easter bunny. So I'm not gutted to find out they don't exist.

[noforgiveness]

OK, never mind the society-sanctioned concubines described in the Bible. I can't even remember how many wives AND concubines King David had. That was perfectly fine in those days. No judgments or condemnations there.

 

 

The concubines were not lying or sneaking around and deceiving someone's family. I'm fine with you being an other woman as long as you are not HURTING his wife and kids. Tell his wife. Put it out in the open and if she agrees go for it. Share her man. Nothing wrong with open marriages.

[Tomcat33]

They also sacrificed virgins to the gods back in those days but I don't see anybody here advocating that. I have no issue with open relationships or any of that but I believe it is wrong to betray and lie to somebody that trusts you to not betray them. It's not the sexual morality but the deception and complete lack of regard for it might affect the betrayed person that makes me against cheating. I just don't feel it is right to treat another person like that.

 

 

No one disputes that people have their sets of what is right and wrong for them, the philosophy is that just because something is wrong for you it doesn't mean everyone has to adhere to your morality.

 

 

Do you think heroine consumption is wrong? Would you judge a parent that allows their child to smoke heroine?

 

 

In a place like Afghanistan a woman can be stoned to death for being unfaithful to her husband but it is socially acceptable for children to consume heroine, also it is "right" to produce heroine to ship out globally.

 

Who decides what is right and wrong for them, and what role do we "the moral judges of the world" play in determining what is right and wrong?

 

 

Says WHO that we can cast judgement on what is globally right and wrong and what morality people should adhere to?

 

Choose a moral code for yourself, yes, impose it on others who don't share your views. GOOD LUCK.

[Tomcat33]

My point was that, in the civilised world, the state doesn't concern itself with matters of individual risk or morality. It allows for freedoms and expects responsibility. In some countries, the inhabitants are treated like grown-ups. I'm lucky enough to live in one.

 

 

EXACTLY! I highlighted the operative words.

[Woggle]

Of course it is wrong to stone women and give heroin to children. I don't condone heroin use by adults but I do have sympathy for addicts. It is a very sad situation to see somebody that is imprisoned by a drug. In my eyes betrayel of the people who place their trust in you is one of the worst things a person can do.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

It's not just judgmental, it's also completely fallacious.

 

Since I go by my morals and personal experiences, facts and studies, and laws, and I have more people than not in the world to support this... This is not a complete fallacy. And even without things... The possibility of hurting someone or my allowing myself to be hurt is more than enough reason to say it is wrong.

 

SOME societies say adultery is wrong. Others hold no view either way, and others enshrine it. Your society is no measure of ALL societies, just as your opinion is no more than just your opinion.

Show me a society that enshrines adultery. Show me a society that holds no views on it. And I am sure we each live in a society. And no it is not just MY opinion. I share my opinion with MANY other people.

 

SOME spouses not looking for an open relationship do not say it is wrong.

Your right on that. Just like there are some who think we are wrong for saying adults can have sex with a physically 13 year old child. Some men and women think it is okay to view child pornography. Some people say its okay for someone to come in and take your property from you if you can't defend yourself.

 

On Pew Social & Demographic Trends 2006 report...

 

88% of viewed that affairs were morally wrong. 3% felt it was okay. 7% thinks its not a moral issue. And 1% say it depends.

 

SOME religions are open-minded about "adultery"and some religious texts - like the old testament - enshrine the role of concubines and multiple wives, and heroify men who have sex with their servants and other mens' wives.

 

This is not considered adultery if a man or woman decide that they want to take on a WILLING partner as extra lovers. Adultery is NOT about a mutual agreement of an non-exclusive relationship. It is about one sneaking around or blatantly going about doing what they want with whomever they want.

 

Perhaps SOME professionals say it is wrong, but at least as many hold neutral or favourable views on it. Many APs are themselves professionals.

It does not necessarily make them right either. If even one person is hurt by an affair, you don't think that is wrong? I might think it is okay for me to have sex with a 13 year old girl. I man biologically is she not ready to produce offspring? But, what do I take in to account why I would not want to do that? Depending on the society, laws and scientific viewpoints. In American because of how we mentally prepare our kids, the AREN'T mature enough to make that kind of a choice with their bodies. This is why we have things to try and dissuade them from having sex so soon. Because we KNOW sex is not just about the physical, but emotional and mental as well. And this is what people have to understand about adultery, it is not just about the things we see, it is about the feelings people have... And these are the ultimate things we are trying to protect because from our emotions, the most horrible things can come to seem logical to us. Such as the man who killed the husband of his former married lover. Tell, me how that was right or if these people are being poorly judged.

 

SOME children may say it's wrong, but many others don't. Neither I nor my siblings said my father's A was wrong, and MM's kids are in favour of his.

Likewise, even if SOME parents or loved ones have issues, very many don't. MM's family have supported, facilitated and welcomed his A from the outset. Friends and colleagues likewise.

Again... Just because someone feels its right doesn't make it so. There is one big golden rule most religious and no religious people agree up, do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Most teach their kids this. And those who don't find their kids wind up getting hurt or in criminal situations because of this teaching.

 

Of course there are people who will support their wrong doing family member or friend in their wrong. There are parents and friends who shelter murderers on their run from the law. There are many who don't.

 

SOME judges may have personal issues iwth it, but the law doesn't (at least, not in civilised countries) and many judges are themselves APs and thus hold views to the contrary of your assertion.

I am going to take a stab at this... What makes a country civilized or uncivilized? Did you not just make a judgment about other countries who's laws you don't agree with? You will have to help me out with the AP acronym. But, if I am getting what your getting at... Your right there are plenty of judges that do at times make judgments based on feelings. That is why there are laws and rules governing what should happen in such a case. There are things people who feel a judge made a judgment based not on law, but on feelings. But now to on the judge's side, he CAN interject his or her feelings and mette out judgment in accordance with the laws they are bound by. This is what happens with sentencing. This is why there is a minimum and a maximum imprisonment term. That is why there is life without parole, life with parole, or in some places death.

Sorry DNR, you're wrong again. I guess this makes you feel bashed and judged, according to your earlier assertion about "people who are wrong" not liking having that pointed out to them. Try not to take it too much to heart, and I promise we won't stone you, however much you admire people who stone those who are wrong.

Nope I don't feel bashed or judged, I am glad there are people here to share these things with. I don't take it too heart actually, and many comments I and those I share them with have a good laugh about it. Stone away, just don't be insulting when you do it. No I never said I admire, I said I have not disagreement with it. Too each their own if it works in preventing others from doing harm unto others. Just like I am not against a country chopping off someone's hand for stealing. I am not against someone's land for just incarcerating them.

 

 

DNR

[Lizzie60]

Really, tell me what countries.

 

I know in China a woman can kill her husband with her bear hands if he cheats on her and that she could use whatever means on the lover. Granted I doubt it is anything that is still on the books, but it was there.

 

 

DNR

 

Oh. And I am glad wherever I live. Granted there are places I would not want to live, but even then, as long as I am alive and able to effect a change in it, I am satisfied.

 

that would be called a grizzly attack..

[Tomcat33]

Your right on that. Just like there are some who think we are wrong for saying adults can have sex with a physically 13 year old child. Some men and women think it is okay to view child pornography. Some people say its okay for someone to come in and take your property from you if you can't defend yourself.

 

Again, those are moral conducts implement in OUR society, some societies put their woman in prostitution as young as 11 yrs of age. And it is morally acceptable and even encouraged. The parents of these women have them prostitute themselves and see NOTHING wrong with some a some 58 yr old German sex tourist have their 11 yr old daughter. Apparently for them this is right, and you speak to those children (the girls) and they feel it is right as well.

[noforgiveness]

Again, those are moral conducts implement in OUR society, some societies put their woman in prostitution as young as 11 yrs of age. And it is morally acceptable and even encouraged. The parents of these women have them prostitute themselves and see NOTHING wrong with some a some 58 yr old German sex tourist have their 11 yr old daughter. Apparently for them this is right, and you speak to those children (the girls) and they feel it is right as well.

 

 

So who cares everyones morals are different and we should not speak out about child pornography, child slavery, abuse etc because we shouldn't impose our morals on others??????:laugh: Oh what a world we would live in if no one spoke out about such atrocities and just looked the other way.

 

Oh the nonsense excuses people will come up with to justify their behaviour.

[Tomcat33]

So who cares everyones morals are different and we should not speak out about child pornography, child slavery, abuse etc because we shouldn't impose our morals on others??????:laugh: Oh what a world we would live in if no one spoke out about such atrocities and just looked the other way.

 

That's not what I said.

 

Ok if you feel so strongly about stopping child abuse what have you done lately to help pevent that?

 

What have you done lately to help prevent any of the things you feel are wrong in this world?

 

I see what you do around here, (a perfect place to show your abilities to move mountains seeing as you are so driven to make the world right) and a peventative measure is a means to reach out in the hopes of making a change, of making a difference. I don't see any of that happening so I can guess with most certainty what you will respond to my question.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

You see things where there is nothing to be seen, like those who say the Bible is full of contradictions without even understanding the spirit of the context.

 

Calling something what it is not a judgment. And all support has to do with a judgment, rational or irrational. Someone is hurt, now I have to make a decision or judgment on how best to approach this person to support them. If one is not looking for support to heal but to justify, then there will be a different approach as to how those who are seeking support to be healed.

 

 

DNR

Tomcat I make statements that I can back up. But, thanks for trying to twist my words anyway.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Again, those are moral conducts implement in OUR society, some societies put their woman in prostitution as young as 11 yrs of age. And it is morally acceptable and even encouraged. The parents of these women have them prostitute themselves and see NOTHING wrong with some a some 58 yr old German sex tourist have their 11 yr old daughter. Apparently for them this is right, and you speak to those children (the girls) and they feel it is right as well.

 

Does this make them any more right? Okay, lets put it like this... Why are so many people against the way Iraq treat their women? Why are we against cultures that cut the clitoris off of women or tell women they are not meant to enjoy sex? Why are nations trying to tell Iraq the women deserve an education or liberty to walk about without covering up their hair?

 

 

DNR

[Dark-N-Romantic]

that would be called a grizzly attack..

 

Nothing more intelligent to add?

 

 

DNR

[Tomcat33]

Noforgiveness:

 

 

I'll tell what I have done to support my cause in the fight against child abuse

 

I collaborated on a documentary that took place in Bangladesh and Mexico that dealt with the abuse of children in sweatshops, and help educate the public on how they can make a difference in these countries and on what OUR involvement is in terms of how WE affect these children right here from the comfort of our own homess. I get local very well known musical artists to represent our cause.

 

I worked in Cuba with a volunteer mission.

 

I have done years of volunteer work with underpribileged kids.

 

 

What is right and what is wrong for ME does not include sitting around on my azz casting verbal abuse on other people, I move people's mind/heart with my actions.

 

That's my personal style, so I know bullshiiit when I see it.

[noforgiveness]

Again, those are moral conducts implement in OUR society, some societies put their woman in prostitution as young as 11 yrs of age. And it is morally acceptable and even encouraged. The parents of these women have them prostitute themselves and see NOTHING wrong with some a some 58 yr old German sex tourist have their 11 yr old daughter. Apparently for them this is right, and you speak to those children (the girls) and they feel it is right as well.

 

 

so what point was it you were trying to make with this statement?

[Virgo1982]

So if it's wrong to hurt other people. Why is it okay to try and hurt OW's feelings day in and day out?

 

Because you think you're better?

 

I really don't get it. What makes you calling someone a skank acceptable? Who are you? Really...

 

Offer your "support" and move on if it's not received. What logic makes you think a person will be receptive to your POV after you've insulted them in such a way?

[Virgo1982]

so what point was it you were trying to make with this statement?

 

The point is you'd probably want to stone them to death too.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

that would be called a grizzly attack..

 

Nothing more intelligent to add?

 

Its funny how people drop to name calling (with things not relevant to the discussion), twisting what someone says with the hope of them tripping up, or even knit picking at little things like grammar without taking in the full context of the words. This is when one knows they have run out of anything useful to say.

 

 

DNR