noforgiveness Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I get so tired of hearing that people that don't agree with affairs are judgmental. If you don't agree with me you are being judgmental. Oh please put judgments and your morals versus my morals aside. If I am riding a bike and see one little kid beating on another I am going to stop and try to help. I am not going to stand idly by watching someone get hurt. Not judging or speaking out about an affair is standing by and watching someone get hurt. You can not possibly tell me when you are off sneaking around with someones husband, someones dad you are not helping to hurt someone. An affair always leads to hurt of the kids, spouse etc. I personally can not sit by and say nothing while someone blatently brags about going into some other womans house and screwing her husband, or sneaking off for a weekend "business trip" etc. It's not my judgment or my morals it's my not wanting to see another human being hurt, you included. Affairs are painful and until he ends his marriage you are being abused along with his wife and kids whether you want to believe it or not. You love the man then love him enough to tell him you will not contribute to the pain he will cause his family if you are discovered. Tell him to clean up his mess and then you will be there. Love yourself enough not to spend years hiding your love. It's not being judgmental or more moral it's about empathy and caring about other people and their feelings.
MichelleS1983 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Absolutely agreed. I'm not a betrayed wife but I was an OW and a MOW years ago. Back then, all I thought about (obviously) was myself and what I was getting out of the affair. Admittedly, my compassion didn't extend past my own nose. Well, I'm older and wiser and now (the "1983" in my name denotes the birth of my child, not MY age...lol) and I have a different outlook. It's no longer all about "me," it's about doing right by your fellow man. Having common courtesy and respect for other people - whether you know them or not. And when you're actively involved in an affair and helping your MM keep it a secret by abiding by his rules of not calling after 5:00 PM and keeping quiet about the affair, then you're HELPING to deceive and ultimately hurt other human beings. It doesn't matter whether you know them or NOT. You're still aiding in the emotional devastation those people will feel. LOL..those in affairs can sugar coat it all they want to make themselves sound blameless, but it doesn't change the facts.
NoIDidn't Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Preaching to the choir, folks. Preaching to the choir. I wasn't even talking about morals in my thread, but that's the route some took it down. Then *I* was accused of projecting?!! I think the morality argument is just that, projecting. I don't bring it up (first). I am well aware that my morals aren't shared by all, so I try to appeal to common sense, decency, and courtesy. But even that gets attacked as me trying to appear that I feel *better* than someone else. Different in my reactions and choices? Yes. Better? Not by a long shot. But, oh well. I wonder what's going on with the stars. Its unusually hostile around these parts lately.
angie2443 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I personally can not sit by and say nothing while someone blatently brags about going into some other womans house and screwing her husband, or sneaking off for a weekend "business trip" etc. It's not being judgmental or more moral it's about empathy and caring about other people and their feelings. I understand this. It makes me feel low when people basically brag about hurting other people. LS can really bring a person down sometimes! I am understanding of some situations. This doesn't mean that I feel an affair is the right way to handle a situation. I believe that an affair will almost always explode in everyone's face. Not everyone gloats about what they have done. There are some people on here who were just young and naive and come from homes where one parent cheated and they are basically just repeating a hurtful pattern. There are some situations where there was abuse and the person was to weak to leave and so just started an affair. I certainly think this is the unhealthy choice, but I understand it. I'll never understand the people who brag about cheating or bieng the ow/om.
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 You love the man then love him enough to tell him you will not contribute to the pain he will cause his family if you are discovered. Tell him to clean up his mess and then you will be there. Love yourself enough not to spend years hiding your love. Funny how when I mentioned that I went NC and he came with the D papers, I was still being 'judged'. I don't think this thread is going to go well. But it's good that you let out your feelings.
Author noforgiveness Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Funny how when I mentioned that I went NC and he came with the D papers, I was still being 'judged'. I don't think this thread is going to go well. But it's good that you let out your feelings. hmm are you speaking of by your friends or on here? If here care to show how you were judged? If by your friends are you sure they were judging you or looking out for your best interest? Afraid for you, afraid of you getting hurt and the old if he did it to her he may do it to you. Maybe your friends CARE about you and your future.
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 hmm are you speaking of by your friends or on here? If here care to show how you were judged? If by your friends are you sure they were judging you or looking out for your best interest? Afraid for you, afraid of you getting hurt and the old if he did it to her he may do it to you. Maybe your friends CARE about you and your future. Eh people from this board. OW here have been supportive - even those who are still watching my back. My RL true friends have been supportive all the way. What I have learned from one BS and a lot of OW here (you ladies know who you are) is that not to give a care about what people here think about me. I'm good at it now.
Author noforgiveness Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Eh people from this board. OW here have been supportive - even those who are still watching my back. My RL true friends have been supportive all the way. What I have learned from one BS and a lot of OW here (you ladies know who you are) is that not to give a care about what people here think about me. I'm good at it now. So would you please show how you were still judged? I'd like to read it. I think most every poster on this board agrees that no contact is the right thing to do until you see the papers. Can't imagine being judged for that. That is the step everyone seems to suggest to get out of the affair one way or the other.
whichwayisup Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I've always said and I'll say it again, there's a HUGE difference between harsh advice and rude advice. Telling someone that what they're doing is wrong, and why, is NOT being judgemental or rude. Telling someone that they're a *insert rude word/slang* IS rude and disrespectful. Telling someone what their actions are doing to someone else isn't rude or mean, calling them names is rude and mean. I get that many people are in different frames of minds when posting and replying, and that sometimes words jump off the page a certain way, and can be taken a certain way, even if it wasn't meant to - It still happens.
Lookingforward Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 So would you please show how you were still judged? I'd like to read it. I think most every poster on this board agrees that no contact is the right thing to do until you see the papers. Can't imagine being judged for that. That is the step everyone seems to suggest to get out of the affair one way or the other. No, I don't believe you can back up that "most posters here" statement...I've seen quite a few on this board now happily M to people they met when either they or both were only separated, not D.
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 So would you please show how you were still judged? I'd like to read it. I think most every poster on this board agrees that no contact is the right thing to do until you see the papers. Can't imagine being judged for that. That is the step everyone seems to suggest to get out of the affair one way or the other. You can search my back posts (it was somewhere last year or early this year). Not talking about being judged by going NC. It was after that - when I started telling bits of my story.
Adunaphel Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 There is more than a way to portray yourself as an OW, as there is more than a way to disagree with affairs. Both "hello, I am the OW" posts and "tough love" posts can be perceived as flamebait, depending on many factors, which include the poster's and the reader's attitudes and prejudices.
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Telling someone that what they're doing is wrong, and why, is NOT being judgemental or rude. Telling someone that they're a *insert rude word/slang* IS rude and disrespectful. Telling someone what their actions are doing to someone else isn't rude or mean, calling them names is rude and mean. Yup yup!! We have seen that a lot. I avoid replying to controversial threads because at the end of the day, nothing's going to change plus it goes in circles ever so often. Anyway, that is a good post WWIU.
whichwayisup Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Yup yup!! We have seen that a lot. I avoid replying to controversial threads because at the end of the day, nothing's going to change plus it goes in circles ever so often. Anyway, that is a good post WWIU. It goes both ways, this is the thing. I've seen just as many (even recently on a BS's thread about his pain and betrayal of his wife's affair) an OW went and shat on him, said some really rude things to him for no reason, and she did it to make a point and to be mean. There was no offer of advice, no empathy given, nothing. It was a prime example of tit for tat - EVEN THOUGH this BS is brand new and hasn't posted in the OW/OM section at all. It IS a circle and people react, then threads get started and people say whatever, and the thing is, it takes away from those who DO need help. Last week one thread had 12 views and NO responses all because one long thread about whatever was being discussed and it turned into one big fight eventually. That one poster who came for help, got no responses...I'm Just sayin'..as B_O would say..
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 It goes both ways, this is the thing. Obviously. And that is something people fail to practise. I'd just ignore "rude, condescending" people.
whichwayisup Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Obviously. And that is something people fail to practise. Because some have huge ego's and never want to admit they're wrong. Or they just like arguing for the sake of it. I know in the past I've been guilty of saying stuff, and getting into debates etc, but I don't do that anymore. Just can't be bothered, and I'd rather help out those in need than get into it with another poster anywhere on LS, not just in this section. but certain people push buttons, wait for reaction and are too quick to then say "you're judging me". Everyone here is capable of it and have done it in some form of another, even if subtle..
angie2443 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I'm trying my best, especially as of late, to not let certain posters get to me. I've learned to avoid certain posters on my bad days, for the most part. It can be hard though. Certain people just push certain buttons. I am getting better at pulling out of debates that just go in circles.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Original Poster (noforgiveness): I think there needs to be a distinction made between "judgement" and disagreement. I can disagree with someone, but not "judge" them. You don't have to "agree" with A's and the people in them. Judgement comes when you decide that they are a bad person, or a cake-eater or an "idiot," or even a whore. That is what judgement is. Morality is a whole different ballgame. And since there's varying viewpoints, you're going to get diverse opinions/values. Just because I think something is "wrong," doesn't mean someone else does. No matter how universal we think morality is. And I'm not going argue what is moral. That's up to each individual person. As for judgement, no one likes to feel that they are judged. Because who here is perfect to judge? We all have our weaknesses. Every one of us. GEL
herenow Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 The beauty of this board is that you really do get raw unfiltered feelings. That includes the good and the bad. Sometimes people come here and are not ready to hear the negative opinions. When they are hit with a much less than warm and fuzzy reality, sometimes the post is considered bashing. When it's really just how the person is feeling in their own reality. This can be a post from a BW or a OW, but just because it differs with the OP, doesn't mean it's bashing, it's just an opinion.
OWoman Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 An affair always leads to hurt of the kids, spouse etc. Not always the kids, no. My father's A didn't hurt us kids; my A with MM was welcomed by his kids. Spouse - I guess that depends on the agreement or understanding between them. So I don't agree with "always". If you can't walk by (or is it just cycling?) without intervening when you see people getting hurt, the same could then be argued for the OW who intervenes to step in and save a MM who is getting stomped on and treated badly in his M by rescuing his ego and self-esteem from the "beating" being given by his W. It either IS one's place to interfere in someone else's business, or it's not. It can't only be when it suits one person's morality, but not apply when it doesn't.
OWoman Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Original Poster (noforgiveness): I think there needs to be a distinction made between "judgement" and disagreement. I can disagree with someone, but not "judge" them. You don't have to "agree" with A's and the people in them. Judgement comes when you decide that they are a bad person, or a cake-eater or an "idiot," or even a whore. That is what judgement is. Morality is a whole different ballgame. And since there's varying viewpoints, you're going to get diverse opinions/values. Just because I think something is "wrong," doesn't mean someone else does. No matter how universal we think morality is. And I'm not going argue what is moral. That's up to each individual person. As for judgement, no one likes to feel that they are judged. Because who here is perfect to judge? We all have our weaknesses. Every one of us. GEL Brilliant post!
Woggle Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I don't condone what OW do but I can't judge them anymore than I can judge a drug addict. In both situations there are some serious issues which lead a person to be addicted to something that causes them nothing but pain and heartache. A cheating man is a snake that openly shows his venom yet these women still chase after him so something went wrong somewhere along the road. If you look at the posts from these women many of them grew up in homes with abuse and infidelity so they have no example of what a healthy relationship is so they don't know how to have one. The ultimate blame goes to the cheating man or cheating woman for that matter. OW and OM could not exist if cheaters did not betray the person they vowed to love and cherish.
Tony T Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Most people do not come to these forums for lectures or sermons. They want help dealing with the information at hand. If you feel they are sinners, they are evil, they will burn in hell for what they are doing...just stay out of it. THEY ARE IN A SITUATION THEY NEED HELP WITH. It's a waste of good time to tell them how terrible they are and how awful their behavior is, if that's your opinion. The moral opinion of an anonymous person somewhere is cyberspace IS TOTALLY WORTHLESS TO PEOPLE!!! What most people are wanting is advice and opinions. They already know what the affairs they are in are against the ten commandments. They already know what they are doing has extreme consequences for many people. They already know that entire lives can be destroyed. That's not what they're here to read about. A drug addict knows they are destroying themselves but you can't talk them out of their next fix. These situations call for love and discretion, understanding and maturity. I can't believe one person in this forum would be so naive to think that their judgmental lecture would have any impact at all on someone in an affair. It's so much better to pass on a thread than to waste time. If you don't have solid advice that can be worded in a helpful way, it's just best to consider yourself disqualified from participating in the thread.
Lookingforward Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Good post TT, very well put. Let's hope it will actually pierce the "fog of righteousness" some seem to be in, especially on this board.
Terminator Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Is judgmentalness even a real word? I can't find it anywhere (just nitpicking, sorry, but I'm anal that way)
Recommended Posts