Watching How he's Treating his Wife.

[noforgiveness]

More to the point, I'd want my husband to have the balls to break up wiith me if he's really intent on dating others. Don't do me any favors by pretending you're staying for MY well-being if that means you're stay includes others.

 

I had an xBF who cheated on me and it was the most painful thing I ever went through. I didn't dwell on the women; I was angry with him. I knew full well that he was manipulating them, by making it seem like he was available, when he and I were supposed to be monogamous. A more predatory woman would evoke a wrathful response though.

 

I'm not predatory, just pathetic in my hopeful neediness. Unflattering, but true. *sighs*

 

Of course you would want a husband with the balls to break up but they don't. They play both the ow and the mw and string them happily along. Only when the ow gets a backbone such as you are will that end. He has to ***** or get off the pot. You are doing the right thing. Don't allow him to have the best of both worlds.

 

I think a bf/gf relationship is different. You are not married. Although the cheating is just as painful to the betrayed party I would not put as much blame on the op. Not married is not married. I think it is crossing a huge boundary line when you agree to sneak around with a married person thus the betrayed person's anger at the op. You knew he was married. This was said in the general not directed at you.

 

Keep your backbone and put your foot down.

[wildsoul]

I think a bf/gf relationship is different. You are not married. Although the cheating is just as painful to the betrayed party I would not put as much blame on the op. Not married is not married.

Interesting perspective. For me, it's not about marriage or not. It's more about whether the couple has agreed to be monogamous or not.

 

Then again, the majority of couples I know are not legally married. I don't equate married with necessarily being more committed. And also worth mentioning, many of my friends are gay and can't get married.

 

The only gray zone I see between married and not, is that a marriage is on public record. So there's less excuse to say "but I didn't know!" And I will add that applies to me here. Because while I fell for the "We're separating" loophole, the fact is that is IS still legally married.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow, wildsoul! I'd be absolutely livid to have my H do something like that. Wow. Its a wonder you managed to have hope for as long as you did.

 

Did the therapy help him see your point of view?

 

That's just so insensitive. He expected you to live with him and give him your life and love, and give you nothing in the event of his death?! That's really insensitive.

 

I've had tons of stepmothers, but I would never cut them out of my dad's will. Even if he left everything to me (which he has, but he's divorcing again now).

 

Just....wow. I'm sorry.

[wildsoul]

Did the therapy help him see your point of view?

Yes, to a point. The therapist also bought into my xH's excuses of "I forgot" "haven't had time," etc. We were married in 2003. He didn't make his trust match our prenup for THREE years. Since the trust overrides the prenup, it meant that he hadn't kept his word on what we agreed to the day before the wedding.

 

He otherwise acted kind towards me, although we became more and more separate. Financially, but then also he stopped wanting to do fun things too. I stopped wanting to have sex with him. Ours was a marriage of two people who got along well enough, but were not building anything together. I was very lonely.

 

Our therapist encouraged me to keep on working on my own life, separate from him and I did. But eventually, I was so heartsick over living like a single woman in every way (except taking on lovers) that I just had to leave. We cared enough about each other to do that gracefully though. And it's the best ending of a relationship that I've ever had.

 

Being a lonely woman, struggling without love and protection from a man for so long made me especially vulnerable. That's really the core of my neediness. I'm so tired of trying to make it on my own. I'm barely able to pay my mortgage/bills. I hadn't had sex in years. Dating was going well, nothing too heavy or unmanageble. But when I met my xMM, who seemed to be in the same phase as me, and with all that heady chemistry we shared, I was hooked.

 

If there is a shadow side at play for me, it's the neediness and overwhelm I feel inside. Being on my own has been hard for a long time. My guy played into a lot of future talk with me. Talking about us getting married someday, our life, the things we'd do together. All of my longings presented before me. Now, I'm alone again and it's temporarily harder as I'm struggling through a break up. Aaargh. Vulnerable, indeed.

[Dark-N-Romantic]

So, is this man in a open relationship? Have you confirmed this with the wife?

 

Wildsoul, none knows the loneless more so than those who never had the chance to be married. Those of us so lucky in love that there are years between SOs. But, even in our loneliness, most of us don't resort to being the love interest of people who are sneaking outside their relationships. Trust me, you don't know HOW much I wish I had as much as you had.

 

Do you think your MM did not pick up on this a is praying on you because he can? You don't feel like something to do other than for him to either fix his marriage or get out of it?

 

 

DNR

[porter218]

After breaking up with my guy (of 6mos) last Saturday, I'm going through the tumultious process of sorting things out. Still in withdrawals. Feel like hell.

 

I'm noticing that some bits of denial are lifting off in sheets. Some of the slippery things he's done are coming to mind. More and more, I'm thinking about his wife and how he's got her enabled as a codependant. Ugh.

 

For example, after I broke up with him on Saturday (it wasn't a NC kind of break up yet) he IM'd me that evening. He was furious. Said not to call his cell phone. He had it disconnected. I asked if it was because he was mad at me. He said no. I asked why? "No comment" then he continued to rant about how he was so boxed in at home by his wife.

 

So putting 2 and 2 together, I think his wife found out about his secret extra cell phone and made him disconnect it. He wouldn't admit that though.

 

Yesterday, he emailed me with a new cell phone number. I noticed it had an area code not in his city, btw.

 

So basically, it seems that she made him ditch the phone, and he begrudingly agreed to be a "good boy," then the next chance he got, he started up a new phone at a store not close to home. Seems like a real f*ck you, you can't control me kind of maneuver.

 

I don't have any facts, but the story I'm presuming makes sense. If he had shut the phone off for some other reason, like a phone company problem, surely he would have vented about it. Instead he was hiding the reason. And since he gave me the number, I know it wasn't an attempt at NC with me.

 

Here's the bit about denial shaking loose for me:

 

1. I was not-so-secretly hoping that my breaking up with him would get him to clean up his situation at home, but this shows (clearly) that he's just going to continue to lie and act out.

 

2. Since we are on a break, or break up, then why does he need another secret phone, unless he's going to cheat with other women?

 

3. He could have used the phone incident to admit he's been having an affair and use it as a chance to launch their separation. Instead, he probably made some empty never-gonna-do-it-again promise.

 

4. If I was in her shoes, I'd want him to either stay or leave, and be insanely mad if I found out he just opened up another account.

 

The thing is, I'm not her. And she has more invested and maybe she's an even worse codependant. Who knows. But what's different in me, is I'm keenly watching how he's treating her. I would lose my mind if I was the recipient of what she's getting.

 

Previously, he led me to believe that his separation was imminent. I didn't want to be hurting another women. But (of course) he made it seem like she and him were truly in separation mode. (He had even rented out a room in a different town.) But now I'm watching even more closely, and don't like what I see.

 

I was still holding a torch for that mythical "someday" when he's free. He made it seem that he wasn't a cheater, and that it was just a case of him meeting his "soul mate" (as he calls me) at the wrong time. But it sure as hell looks like he's planning on STILL being a cheater. Ugh.

 

Anyone else go through this phase of scrutinizing how your MM/W treats their spouse?

You sound sooo much like one of the OW my H had. When I found his secret phone and found out about her I talked to her. She told me that he had made it seem like he was going to leave me..that we were basically separated but living under the same roof. He had painted such a different picture for her so that she would continue to see him. In a way I felt bad for her as well as myself. He was such a sneaky bastard and sooooo full of cr@p. The lies he told her were so awful and so far from the truth. But unlike your MMs W, I did immediately kick my H out and didn't take him back for 9 months. No way could I have lived under the same roof as him after finding out what he had done.

[wildsoul]

So, is this man in a open relationship? Have you confirmed this with the wife?

He told me they were separating. He rented a room in another city. So it looked like he was on his way out. I was super clear that she had to know that he was dating, all out in the open. He agreed. She did know about me, but I don't know what she knew exactly.

 

He offered once that I could speak with her, but it didn't get that far. She lost her job a couple weeks ago. He stopped discussions about separation/divorce with her. It's understandable. He should make sure she's okay! And the economy sucks right now. I can see how he can't afford to support two households on one paycheck. He's gotta stay and figure out his marriage and his money.

 

Still, that was backwards progress that violated the conditions of my being with him, so I broke up with him over it last weekend.

[wildsoul]

porter218: Yeppers. Sounds very similar. It must have been hard for you to talk to his mistress. But sometimes, if you're both good people, you can find a way to communicate respectfully.

 

I don't know the wife of the guy I met, but he makes her sound like a nice person overall. I'm sure she is. There are some things that seem controlling, but I take what he says with a grain of salt. There's 2 sides to every story.

[Tomcat33]

He told me they were separating. He rented a room in another city. So it looked like he was on his way out. I was super clear that she had to know that he was dating, all out in the open. He agreed. She did know about me, but I don't know what she knew exactly.

 

 

Don't bother trying to explain it Wildsoul they are just going to come back at you with "BUT you knew he still had a ring on his finger he WAS still married" there is no pleasing some for dating a sperated man, a newly divorved man, a married man, a taken a man, an "anything variation" you can think of man, contrary to that of a fully single man. For some it is never good enough, not around here at least.

 

I am back in the dating scene and in the age group of 35 to 45 it seems almost everyone is either seperated or about to get divorced and naturally having been with someone who was seperated to d only to suffer as I did with my ex I totally shy away from GENUINELY cool guys that are seperated. I was out on a date a couple of weeks ago with this really amazing guy and his ex W lives abroad BUT he is still seperated, so what do you do? I ran for the hills that is what I did, but at the end of the day to date a seperated person is a personal judgement call in terms of risk factor but to throw in morality into that makes NO sense to me at all.

 

Sorry I jumped the gun but this conversation is SO predicatable in terms of what you will be picked on for next.

 

 

These guys mislead the OW too, as much as you were the protagonist of your pain and predicament YOU TOO were a victim to his lies of his deceit and you need to acknowledge that and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You trusted someone that should not be trusted but that does not make you evil it makes you naive to a situation that you should have followed your gut instinct about instead, but you let your heart lead you and that is why we end up as we do.

[Tomcat33]

. She lost her job a couple weeks ago. He stopped discussions about separation/divorce with her. It's understandable. He should make sure she's okay! And the economy sucks right now. I can see how he can't afford to support two households on one paycheck. He's gotta stay and figure out his marriage and his money.

 

Still, that was backwards progress that violated the conditions of my being with him, so I broke up with him over it last weekend.

 

 

Oh my god are you dating my ex? Did he move back because she lost her job and to emotionally support her?

Pfft EXACTLY what min did at the time we broke up!

[wildsoul]

Don't bother trying to explain it Wildsoul they are just going to come back at you...

Thanks! I've only been here for a day, so learning the ropes. I've been getting a lot of wisdom from your other posts, too.

 

I do want to add that I don't think anyone's jumped on me here. I want polite discourse and a place to talk it through. And I've no problem hearing blunt advice that's meant well either.

 

While I freely admit I've let my judgement get clouded and definitely crossed some lines that I wish I hadn't, I've not been overtly evil. It's just not in my nature! This is the first time I ever allowed myself to get in this kind of situation. Usually, I'm the one people come to as a mentor. I've got a great reputation otherwise, and need to clean this up. Humbling and painful.

 

I'm definitely paying the price by opening up my heart to love with the wrong person at the wrong time. There's nothing anyone here can say that could hurt more than the consequences I'm already grappling with.

[Tomcat33]

I do want to add that I don't think anyone's jumped on me here. I want polite discourse and a place to talk it through. And I've no problem hearing blunt advice that's meant well either.

 

 

 

Cool I totally respect that!

[Crestfallen_KH]

Wildsoul, I think you are very thoughtful, intelligent and, frankly, human. I think you're brave to come here and reveal yourself, flaws and all. You haven't been in any way defensive and I'm very impressed that you are willing to accept that there are two different sides to every story.

 

I am a BS who was given no quarter by the OW who kicked out her husband so mine could move in, so it's sometimes hard for me to read some of the things posted here, especially in this forum (which is why I usually avoid it). Frankly, there's too much "blame" and name calling slung back and forth between the groups and I really respect you for seeing things with a fair and neutral eye and not participating in that pointless sort of communication.

 

I would SO have coffee with you.

[Adunaphel]

Anyone else go through this phase of scrutinizing how your MM/W treats their spouse?

 

Yes, absolutely. I am glad you opened this thread as I find it of great interest, and I was curious to read other replies before replying myself.

My situation is different than yours, as MM and I are not on a break, but since our affair started I have been observing how he treats his W (knowing not his W, all I can judge from is what he says about her and their relationship, the way he is 'handling' the affair, and what I can see with my own eyes. This from the assumption that he has not been lying to me).

I keep asking myself the question "what if I was in his W's shoes, in a similar situation?"; whenever I have a lapse of trust in him and his words, it always originates from a "If I were her, I'd be mad" sort of thought.

At the moment the only one thing about him that I do consider a true red flag is an episode of about 12 years ago that he told me about, that I would consider a deal breaker had I been in his W's shoes and had I known about it.