astra77 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I would like to start a thread on behalf of my H. NOT SURE IF IM POSTING IN THE RIGHT SPOT BUT I'LL SEE HOW WE GO HERE. MINE & H'S History: We have been friends for almost 20 years, dating 12 years and married 4 years. I had an A with my boss that ended in May 2008. I left my job and A. I am in NC with xmm and I FULLY intend to work on my M. This was my first and LAST A. What i need help with is - obviously H is having a hard time dealing with the bomb i dropped on him a few days ago - i came clean and told him. I dont so much want advice for myself on this thread, but i want other BS's to tell my H of their "experiences" warts and all - BUT remember he is a newby - please dont scare him off as I want this forum to be a place he can come to and post on his own when he is confident to do so. I guess i am hoping / thinking that if he can come home from work tonight and read about what other people have felt and experienced, he may be able to relate that to his own situation, and start to process, understand and basically not feel alone in the world as he does right now. Anyone who can help - please do- REMEMBER THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR ME, IT IS FOR THE H (BS)
Lookingforward Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I would like to start a thread on behalf of my H. NOT SURE IF IM POSTING IN THE RIGHT SPOT BUT I'LL SEE HOW WE GO HERE. MINE & H'S History: We have been friends for almost 20 years, dating 12 years and married 4 years. I had an A with my boss that ended in May 2008. I left my job and A. I am in NC with xmm and I FULLY intend to work on my M. This was my first and LAST A. What i need help with is - obviously H is having a hard time dealing with the bomb i dropped on him a few days ago - i came clean and told him. I dont so much want advice for myself on this thread, but i want other BS's to tell my H of their "experiences" warts and all - BUT remember he is a newby - please dont scare him off as I want this forum to be a place he can come to and post on his own when he is confident to do so. I guess i am hoping / thinking that if he can come home from work tonight and read about what other people have felt and experienced, he may be able to relate that to his own situation, and start to process, understand and basically not feel alone in the world as he does right now. Anyone who can help - please do- REMEMBER THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR ME, IT IS FOR THE H (BS) If you're looking for advice for your H from BS re reconciling your M I would suggest the Infidelity forum would be a better place than an OW/OM board
michelangelo Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Do not believe a word she says, just because she says it or cries. If she acts like she is breathing, check to see if there is actually an atmosphere. I'm serious. Your wife has to earn your trust over and over until you believe it by her actions. If you cannot stomach the long road ahead, then do what you must to protect yourself. If I were you, I would not jump the gun with a hasty "I forgive you" kind of discussion with your wife. She may be talking a good game right now, but she very well could be gaslighting you. A cheater is a very accomplished liar and deceiver. They are crafty, can even use going to the counselor to repair things as a way to go into deep cover about their still ongoing affair. Yes, your wife could be remorseful and intend to not cheat anymore -- today. But tomorrow? And the next? Yo will only know by her behavior that is observable. The unobserved? Never will know for sure. Those days are gone. Does this sound harsh? Hope so. You do not owe her much anymore, but she owes you a lot if you keep her.
Crestfallen_KH Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Dear BS: First, everyone and his/her dog is going to tell you what you should do in this instance. Many will tell you to "dump the cheating whore" and, at times, you'll feel like doing exactly that. But know that this is your marriage, your relationship, and only YOU can determine if it is worth fighting for or not. Your W did not make a "mistake." She knowingly and willingly betrayed you. Don't allow her or anyone to minimize that. Whatever you are feeling, and whenever you are feeling it, is not wrong. Your entire life, every fibre of your being has been violated and betrayed. Every aspect of your life will be affected for a long time - sleeping, eating, SURVIVING each minute of each day will seem almost impossible and unbearable. It is all normal. I commend you for wanting to work on your marriage. I'd like to recommend a book that I found helpful during this process. It is called "The Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner Davis. Read it, especially the section on infidelity. It provides steps that can help you begin to process your feelings and work towards reconciliation IF that is your ultimate goal. The book will also be helpful for your spouse, but don't force to read it. It is up to her now to prove to you that she truly wants your forgiveness and wants to work on the marriage. Believe nothing - not at this point. She's torn, still likely to contact the OM, despite everything she says. She's going to have to work to gain your trust back and the book will help outline some of the things she can do to do just that. If she is unwilling to make her life, her cell phone, her thoughts an open book to you, that should be a deal breaker. Your life will be hell for awhile, but many, MANY of us have been there. And, many of us would have killed for the chance to rebuild our marriages. I'm not saying that to give her credit or tell you that that is what you should do; after all, you both will have to accept the fact that one or both of you may ultimately decide he/she can't handle it and want out. But I do believe that marriages can be rebuilt stronger and better if both parties actively work to make that happen. Even if you decide not to rebuild your marriage, the book will help you to get YOU back. I strongly recommend both individual counseling (IC) and marriage counseling (MC). There is no shame - when your are fighting for something so important, why not utilize all of the tools available? All pride will get you is a lot of lonely time. Good luck. We are here for you if you need us.
Author astra77 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 Do not believe a word she says, just because she says it or cries. If she acts like she is breathing, check to see if there is actually an atmosphere. I'm serious. Your wife has to earn your trust over and over until you believe it by her actions. If you cannot stomach the long road ahead, then do what you must to protect yourself. If I were you, I would not jump the gun with a hasty "I forgive you" kind of discussion with your wife. She may be talking a good game right now, but she very well could be gaslighting you. A cheater is a very accomplished liar and deceiver. They are crafty, can even use going to the counselor to repair things as a way to go into deep cover about their still ongoing affair. Yes, your wife could be remorseful and intend to not cheat anymore -- today. But tomorrow? And the next? Yo will only know by her behavior that is observable. The unobserved? Never will know for sure. Those days are gone. Does this sound harsh? Hope so. You do not owe her much anymore, but she owes you a lot if you keep her. This is true. And why i want people to post, I do owe him alot. Maybe this can help ME see things from another point of view, but i do expect a bashing from some people. HOWEVER, I am not just stringing my H along. I agree with you in the sense that i see your pain and feel your hurt, but this is a mess i am not prepared to live with for the rest of my life, i F**CKED up and i want to fix it. I dont want it to consume our lives anymore, i am not taking away from the fact that i have done wrong, but am looking for ways to heal - both myself and my H - and move on. And i see how to a BS this sounds like a cop out, and after lying so f**cken much, i see how this wont wash with some BS's. And i dont blame you. Yes i lied, Yes i cheated, yes i decieved my h, yes i slept with someone else, BUT i also ended it, and came to my senses and told my H. It is over and done with period. I CHOSE to stop this bulls**t and I dont want to lie anymore, i dont want to cheat anymore, i dont want to hurt H anymore, beacause for everything i have done to him, i have done to myself a thousand times worse. I am sorry your WS did this to you, but no two people are alike, and i would like to atleast think i had a little credit for doing the right thing after doing so many wrong things. So many people dont talk about these things honestly with their partners, and I would like to think that H and I can work this out for the best. I made so many foolish decisions without him in my mind (H) now i have refocused, i want to work thru this with him. Of course no one knows how it will end, if we will D or stay M, but you can only give it a go. TRUELY having a go can only be a good thing, atleast we know we tried. I owe it to my H to atleast give it a red hot go, and not just throw my M away. I hope that makes sense. ((HUGS))
Author astra77 Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry i also have to add that I have done quite a few things along the way to PROVE to my H that it is over. I know it sounds lame, but i am trying everything i can to remove myself from the A. As the old saying goes, two wrongs dont make a right. 1. I left my job - H didn't ask me to or even know of A at this stage. I wanted to show my H i was serious, and staying in my job would have been the wrong thing to do 2. I told my H - no third party involvement, he found out from me, not a friend, work mate or anyone else, from me. I told him because if i didnt, it would have been the wrong thing to do 3. I have stayed in my M and am TRYING to sort out the situation. I asked him if he wanted to leave he said no, I asked if H wanted me to leave, he said no. If i had of up and left without TRYING to sort it out it would have been the wrong thing to do Now while i understand that my actions are far from excusable, I am taking steps to show my H that i am TRYING to make up for my past behaviour. I am TRYING to show my H that I am starting to make it up to him. Albeit baby steps, but that is all i can do, TRY my hardest and take baby steps to repair my M.
Lizzie60 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I never cheated.. but speaking from my experience with my many MMs.. I would say that 'once a cheater, always a cheater' BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. So yes, you might be one of the women that I'm talking about and will never cheat again... 'under reserve though'.. Husband: keep your fingers and toes crossed.. OP... good luck... be good..
Author astra77 Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Dear BS: First, everyone and his/her dog is going to tell you what you should do in this instance. Many will tell you to "dump the cheating whore" and, at times, you'll feel like doing exactly that. But know that this is your marriage, your relationship, and only YOU can determine if it is worth fighting for or not. Your W did not make a "mistake." She knowingly and willingly betrayed you. Don't allow her or anyone to minimize that. Whatever you are feeling, and whenever you are feeling it, is not wrong. Your entire life, every fibre of your being has been violated and betrayed. Every aspect of your life will be affected for a long time - sleeping, eating, SURVIVING each minute of each day will seem almost impossible and unbearable. It is all normal. I commend you for wanting to work on your marriage. I'd like to recommend a book that I found helpful during this process. It is called "The Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner Davis. Read it, especially the section on infidelity. It provides steps that can help you begin to process your feelings and work towards reconciliation IF that is your ultimate goal. The book will also be helpful for your spouse, but don't force to read it. It is up to her now to prove to you that she truly wants your forgiveness and wants to work on the marriage. Believe nothing - not at this point. She's torn, still likely to contact the OM, despite everything she says. She's going to have to work to gain your trust back and the book will help outline some of the things she can do to do just that. If she is unwilling to make her life, her cell phone, her thoughts an open book to you, that should be a deal breaker. Your life will be hell for awhile, but many, MANY of us have been there. And, many of us would have killed for the chance to rebuild our marriages. I'm not saying that to give her credit or tell you that that is what you should do; after all, you both will have to accept the fact that one or both of you may ultimately decide he/she can't handle it and want out. But I do believe that marriages can be rebuilt stronger and better if both parties actively work to make that happen. Even if you decide not to rebuild your marriage, the book will help you to get YOU back. I strongly recommend both individual counseling (IC) and marriage counseling (MC). There is no shame - when your are fighting for something so important, why not utilize all of the tools available? All pride will get you is a lot of lonely time. Good luck. We are here for you if you need us. This is what he needs to hear - thanks
Crestfallen_KH Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 astra, obviously this is your post, and I understand that you want to defend yourself, but you've opened it up to be a forum for BSs to express themselves freely to your husband during this awful time in your lives and marriage. By posting to contradict, defend or even agree with a poster, it's not really a forum for your husband to read, but a sounding board for you. At this point, I would strongly urge you to step out of it and allow us to help. If you respond to every post, I guarantee all you will do is frustrate him when he reads this. Right now, he doesn't CARE how you feel - his focus is on what you did to him to make him feel the way HE does. Just a suggestion...
Lizzie60 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Oh and I should add that my last ex's ex.. cheated on him.. that's why he left her.. and to this day still regret it. She loved him.. she was his queen... they were well-off.. he could give her the moon.. he said he never cheated on her.. they were married 12 years I think.. she got drunk one night and cheated on him.. someone told her husband.. she left her right away.. gosh did she ever regret it ... She went totally nuts... depressed.. schizophrenic... her family wanted to place her ... He's was/is happy... she is a miserable 'old' woman now (even if she's only about 40... she is soooo unhappy, she looks like 60)... sad.. pathetic... So be good..
Jumbo Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 [Lizzie60;1769759].. I would say that 'once a cheater, always a cheater' BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. Lizzie - I disagree, more woman are cheating than ever before....look up the stats. This is a sexist statement. I am a single man and had an A with a MW for 7 years. I could have very easily remained with her in a monogamous relationship.
Jumbo Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Astra - How long were you in the A. Why were you in it? What was missing in your marriage? What are you going to do to replace what was missing in the M.
Lizzie60 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 [Lizzie60;1769759].. I would say that 'once a cheater, always a cheater' BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. Lizzie - I disagree, more woman are cheating than ever before....look up the stats. This is a sexist statement. I am a single man and had an A with a MW for 7 years. I could have very easily remained with her in a monogamous relationship. I agree MORE women are cheating ...but MEN are still on top... sorry... Yes I look at the stats.. and I don't believe they're high enough IMO.. but women are still in the lower stats.. Sexist.. I don't think so.. it's not MY fault if men cheat more than women.. it's the reality.. If you could show me a stat where it says that women cheat more than men.. then I might reconsider...
Jumbo Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 [Lizzie60;1769759].. BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. This is a sexist statement. ...writing "IMO" doesn't negate that Sure woman ( as can men) remain faithful. But many do not, my MW did not, Astra did not nor did the many that write on this post....so pls do not paint all men and all woman with one brush. Although maybe the men you deal with can not remain faithful many can and do. I was faithful in my marraige. To be clear I said the stats show that many more woman are cheating based on opportunity. I am not going to run the stats google it and you will see the statistical difference is negliable. In Astra's M the stats show more woman cheat. It gets somewhat tiring that the men are always wrong and the woman can do no wrong.....people equally are at fault...no gender is better than another when it comes to affairs. Using your same logic then woman are much worse than men if they have an affair...given the emotion and the loyalty to family, bonding, higher degree of standards for sharing their body,...men by nature are sex crazed pigs so it should be expected.......( for record I disagree with this) to infer that woman have higher level of morals is laughable and sexist.
Lizzie60 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 [Lizzie60;1769759].. BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. This is a sexist statement. ...writing "IMO" doesn't negate that Sure woman ( as can men) remain faithful. But many do not, my MW did not, Astra did not nor did the many that write on this post....so pls do not paint all men and all woman with one brush. Although maybe the men you deal with can not remain faithful many can and do. I was faithful in my marraige. To be clear I said the stats show that many more woman are cheating based on opportunity. I am not going to run the stats google it and you will see the statistical difference is negliable. In Astra's M the stats show more woman cheat. It gets somewhat tiring that the men are always wrong and the woman can do no wrong.....people equally are at fault...no gender is better than another when it comes to affairs. Using your same logic then woman are much worse than men if they have an affair...given the emotion and the loyalty to family, bonding, higher degree of standards for sharing their body,...men by nature are sex crazed pigs so it should be expected.......( for record I disagree with this) to infer that woman have higher level of morals is laughable and sexist. You find it sexist.. then the 'stats' ARE sexist.. because there are still MORE men that cheat than women.. sorry.. dude. You said you were faithful.. I was too.. in my 2 relationships... so are all my friends (female) but most of my men friends (even the platonic ones) have been unfaithful at one point. I'm sure there are lots of MM out there that DO NOT post on these forums.. women are more 'emotional' about A therefore more women post on 'love/relationships boards"...and that's also a reality..
Jumbo Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Here is what you said: BUT I have also said, many times, that I see a difference in the cheating when it's a woman... Women can control themselves much much more.. I am absolutely convinced of that. Women can remain faithful to the same man for life... no man can do that... IMO. The words above reflect a sexist statement...inferring the woman are morally superior to men. Read your words. This is an untrue statement...sorry if you can't see it. I agree statistically men cheat more..( or maybe admit to in polls more than woman) the point is its close, further negating your all inclusive view/statement that woman can remain faithful to the same man and that no men can do that is not inaccurate, close minded, and sexist....no matter what spin you digress to. No need to debate. Your words are your words, see above. ( inferring Men bad - Woman good) you said you were faithful.. I was too.. in my 2 relationships... so are all my friends (female) but most of my men friends (even the platonic ones) have been unfaithful at one point. I see now ..your gal pals do not admit to a A so they are truthful...solid data....lol...My MW had never told anyone that she was in an 7 year A.....to risky... loose lips sink ships....guessing most woman would not..( why would they admit the truth to you...way to risky) .....your data points are off by a mile. Interesting group of male friends...might want to switch crowds. You think MM are only cheating with single woman...open your eyes girl. You can't make all inclusive statements like you did above...shows narrow mindedness. Go equality! - or at least when it suits you! lol
awkward Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I think it is great that you told your husband of the affair and you guys are working on your marriage. I also like that you are showing him a place where he can get support from other BS. I only hope that you have been completely honest with him. I don't have any advice but wanted to wish you guys well.
Crestfallen_KH Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Good lord, I hope astra's husband doesn't come here. He'll get two posts of useful advice and otherwise observe some low-grade p*ssing contest not even related to the topic. He'll run screaming. 1
Lyssa Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I feel it is best for him to register an account of himself and then post on another board. I'm sure there are BS out there that will help him to work this marriage out.
porter218 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 All I have to say for you(H) is you are looking at a long and hard road ahead. Don't make your mind up about staying or leaving yet...you aren't to that point yet. Maybe a separation for a while can help clear your head and better understand what has happened to your life. When My H had his affair it felt like my world had ended and I couldn't stand to look at him anymore. I hated him and had lost all trust in him. But It get better in time and open discussion about the A will help you process this horrible event. I ended up leaving him for 9 months....but in the end I realized I still had love for him. We are now back together and piecing together our lives. The pain of his A has diminished and we are now working on trust. It is not perfect but we have become a better team from it. That doesn't mean I am rooting for you to work it out. That is just my story. Don't listen to what anyone tells you to do ...including your wife. Only you know what you can recover from and that is your choice alone. Good luck to you both PS. I am proud of you astra...coming clean is the right thing to do.
michelangelo Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 But talk is really cheap. Your actions going forward over a long period of time is what is going to prove the truth of this change you say you have made. My wife led me on for years, lying and continuing her affair even as she cried and even went to counseling with me. She was so effed up! She tried to act like it was a one time thing that she was so sorry for having. In reality? She cheated for more than six years and continued lying about it for another 8 years. Oh the tears! Oh the defiance, how the how dare I think she was still at it! She really had me snowed for a long time. So do not protest so much about your intent and renewed interest in being a good wife. If it is genuine, then bravo. But you asked us to post to your husband. So I have told him to not trust you for this so early agitated attempt to show you have changed. You get points for expressing a change. You will win the trust and renew your relationship with your actions over a long period of time -- if he will accept you. This is true. And why i want people to post, I do owe him alot. Maybe this can help ME see things from another point of view, but i do expect a bashing from some people. HOWEVER, I am not just stringing my H along. I agree with you in the sense that i see your pain and feel your hurt, but this is a mess i am not prepared to live with for the rest of my life, i F**CKED up and i want to fix it. I dont want it to consume our lives anymore, i am not taking away from the fact that i have done wrong, but am looking for ways to heal - both myself and my H - and move on. And i see how to a BS this sounds like a cop out, and after lying so f**cken much, i see how this wont wash with some BS's. And i dont blame you. Yes i lied, Yes i cheated, yes i decieved my h, yes i slept with someone else, BUT i also ended it, and came to my senses and told my H. It is over and done with period. I CHOSE to stop this bulls**t and I dont want to lie anymore, i dont want to cheat anymore, i dont want to hurt H anymore, beacause for everything i have done to him, i have done to myself a thousand times worse. I am sorry your WS did this to you, but no two people are alike, and i would like to atleast think i had a little credit for doing the right thing after doing so many wrong things. So many people dont talk about these things honestly with their partners, and I would like to think that H and I can work this out for the best. I made so many foolish decisions without him in my mind (H) now i have refocused, i want to work thru this with him. Of course no one knows how it will end, if we will D or stay M, but you can only give it a go. TRUELY having a go can only be a good thing, atleast we know we tried. I owe it to my H to atleast give it a red hot go, and not just throw my M away. I hope that makes sense. ((HUGS))
NoIDidn't Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Astra I am so against inviting your H here. Its almost like letting him read your diary. You really have no idea what may set him off about some of your posts or others' posts to you. I don't think its a good idea. He may come to the realization that you can never be trusted again - whether or not its actually true. You are commended for trying and doing all that you can, but know that his healing is not a sprint. This is a cross-country run that is going to take a long time to heal from - regardless of how forthcoming you are. (((((((Astra and hubby)))))))
twice_shy Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I would like to start a thread on behalf of my H. NOT SURE IF IM POSTING IN THE RIGHT SPOT BUT I'LL SEE HOW WE GO HERE. MINE & H'S History: We have been friends for almost 20 years, dating 12 years and married 4 years. I had an A with my boss that ended in May 2008. I left my job and A. I am in NC with xmm and I FULLY intend to work on my M. This was my first and LAST A. What i need help with is - obviously H is having a hard time dealing with the bomb i dropped on him a few days ago - i came clean and told him. I dont so much want advice for myself on this thread, but i want other BS's to tell my H of their "experiences" warts and all - BUT remember he is a newby - please dont scare him off as I want this forum to be a place he can come to and post on his own when he is confident to do so. Well scare him off or not, you wanted BS's experiences, you are gonna get them. This is my experience. I stay home with kids while wife goes out with friends and cheats. The hurt lasted for about a couple days then turned into anger. Then desperation thinking that I can't get a divorce because of my kids. so I tried to stay in the marriage for their sake and thought that maybe I could forgive my wife. But it wasn't going to happen. I realized that she is a cheater and always will be. Nobody should have to stay with a cheater and have to look at them every day for the rest of their lives and be reminded of what they did. So I filed for divorce, and it was the best decision I ever made. REMEMBER THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR ME, IT IS FOR THE H (BS) And my response IS for him.
whichwayisup Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t40398/ He isn't around much anymore, but this poster, DazednConfused, has alot of insight in his thread. In detail, he shares what he went through so hopefully you can get an understanding of what is going on inside your husband.. Unfortunately their marriage ended, but not before giving it their best shot. He's happier now, and apparently so is she.
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