At wits end...

[staquinas]

So, I guess first to lay out the situation...

 

My wife and I have been married since 2004. We had been dating/living together since 2001, and known each other for much longer then that. We are currently in our mid-20s.

 

I'm having some of the same issues as I read about here in the forum, in regards to a lack of sex in the marriage, but that isn't my primary concern right now.

 

My primary concern is that my wife spends most of her time either in bed, sleeping, or else at the bar. Her normal schedule is to get up around 3pm, go to the bar, and then get home around 2:30am, and go to sleep. She will usually wake up when I get up to go to work (I work a semi-normal 8-5), but only to try to get me to stay in bed.

 

Going to the bar only started about a year ago - before that, she would just stay in bed essentially all the time. Needless to say, she was not like the before she moved in with me.

 

All I want is to get her to contribute to the relationship, at least some. I feel as if I give, and she takes, 100% of the time.

 

I've tried to get her to find a job, and now she works 1 night every two weeks at the same bar she likes to hang out at (not exactly what I meant when I encouraged her to find a job), and I've tried to get her to be involved in something - either school, or the community, or anything else, just something to get her interest, and get her out and doing something.

 

You can probably tell, I'm pretty frustrated at this point - does anyone have any suggestion on what I should do? I'm perfectly willing to accept criticism as well, if it sounds like something may be my own fault.

 

As I mentioned at the begining of the post, we also have not been having sex (probably been 2 months, and at least 2 months before that time), though, as I've heard form many posts here, she claimed to want it at least every other day before we got married.

 

We have no kids, I do all the housework, and I provide all the income...

 

Ideas? Suggestions? Criticisms?

[quankanne]

sounds possibly like depression or a funk of sort. Was she like this before, when you started dating? And has there been any sort of major upheaval in her life since this all started – death in the family, loss of a pregnancy, etc?

[Enema]

Was she working before you got married?

 

Did you discuss what you both expected of each other after you got married?

[Ronni_W]

  quankanne said:

sounds possibly like depression or a funk of sort. ...has there been any sort of major upheaval in her life since

Might be an hormonal/chemical imbalance.

Or possibly a traumatic memory that has surfaced or is emerging, with which she has no way of coping. (It need not have been a first-hand experience...might be something she witnessed.)

Or some HUGE "secret" that she's uncovered, that is rocking her foundation/core beliefs.

 

Is there someone (parent, sibling, friend, family, minister) who may be able to influence her to see a family physician? Or perhaps to visit a doctor on your own, and recount the situation?

 

It is possible that the harder you try to persuade her into action, or make suggestions for her to follow, the more distant/detached she will become -- not that your ideas aren't sound...just that it may be worth consideration of where her mind MAY be. Certainly sounds...fragile, perhaps?

[Staring]

With a shedule like that it means she has no aspiriation or goals in life anymore... thats a big problem that takes away any meaning in life anymore

[staquinas]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

Before we started dating she was very active in the local community, she was doing some college, and was also doing some assistant work at a doctor's office. She didn't stop being really active till we moved to California for a couple years - about 6 months after getting there, she started acting this way - depressed maybe?

 

As far as I know, and I am very close to her family and long time friends, nothing major has happened to anyone close to her. She has never been pregnant

 

Before we got married, she had said she was planning on getting slowly finishing her degree, as well as working at least part time till we decided to have children.

 

I've proposed the idea of seeing a doctor, psychologist, or even councilor multiple times - and of course I'm willing to go with her - but she immediately rejects it, saying there is nothing wrong. I've spoken with some of her long time friends, and they have tried speaking with her, also to no result - she has never gotten along well with her parents, or else I would also speak with them.

[staquinas]

  Ronni_W said:

It is possible that the harder you try to persuade her into action, or make suggestions for her to follow, the more distant/detached she will become -- not that your ideas aren't sound...just that it may be worth consideration of where her mind MAY be. Certainly sounds...fragile, perhaps?

 

I think this is what is happening, essentially - that is why at this point I pretty much have been not saying anything, and coping as best I can. "fragile" is about the furthest away from what I would think of to describe her, but perhaps.

 

I've always been very good at internalizing and simply "coping" or "dealing" with any problems (i.e., letting myself get walked over), but this is starting to strain my ability to deal with.

 

I should mention what she seems to want from me, based on actions and words:

 

• She wants money (to go to the bar)
  
• She wants to cuddle (generally, this translates into wanting her back rubbed - sometimes it really is just wanting to be held)
  
• She wants me to fit my schedule around hers, to provide transportation, etc. We each have our own cars, though she has probably not driven hers in 6 months or so - I either drive her, or she begs a ride from a friend.
  
• She wants me to bring her lunch in bed (come home from work)
  

and thats about it. I don't always give in, and even less so lately. Other stuff, such as housework and the like, she simply does not do, but doesn't really bug me about - I get tired of the mess well before she ever does, and simply do what needs doing.

[luna3]

you're babying her. the more you give, the more she'll take.

 

no grown person should expect you to come home from work and serve them lunch in bed. she's not your child, and doesn't get an allowance, especially not to drink away while you're working. and that "re-arranging the schedule around her" stuff...have you really been doing all this? and how does it impact your work?

 

she sounds majorly depressed. you say that you've suggested a job, counselling, etc. have you ever really just asked her what is on her mind? or what she gets out of forming the imprint of her backside on that barstool all day?

 

i might discuss my future goals. if it includes kids, homeownership, paying off debts, completing school, or anything of the kind you must make it clear that this current program will not be contributing to accomplishing that in any way. ask her if she wants to be doing the same thing she is now in a year, or five years, or ten years down the line.

 

i'm sorry to be so pessimistic, but this doesn't sound at all healthy, normal, or workable for the long term. you've been coping for awhile, but obviously it is beginning to grind. it is unclear how you will make your marriage last unless she opens up about it, seeks help (preferably professional), and makes some changes. so far, you've been the one making all the changes. you've entered a stage where you are the parent, and she is the child--hence the lack of sex!

 

perhaps she doesn't like california? misses her old friends and community? does she confide in anyone at all? possibly it might be someone at this bar, which is unfortunate because it is unlikely that you will get much assistance from them.

 

seek help, call AA. but lay some boundaries for yourself, before you become enslaved as well.

[Lucky_One]

Sounds like she is avoiding you in order to spend time with another guy at the bar.

 

Do you go there with her? Do you see her interactions there?

[michelangelo]

I think you may be at a moment of ultimatums.

 

as in I've made a doctor's appointment/marriage counselor's appointment and WE, the two of us are going.

 

If she refuses? Tell her that means the end of our life together and kick her out.

 

Yes, you can put it to her in a much more caring way but that is the truth of it.

 

Something is clearly wrong with her if she just lays about all day and drinks the rest of the time.

 

 

Her actions cry out for help.

 

and yes, she could be cheating. At the very least she is turning into a boozer. She also sounds clinically depressed.

 

So I would want her evaluated for substance abuse when you go to a health professional.

 

If you love her, you owe her a try for help. But do not waffle with her.

 

If she refuses, she needs to know the price of it is harsh.

[Desperado620]

I agree with Michaelangelo, you will probably need some ultimatums here.

 

First and foremost I would cut off the booze money. If she is on the road to alcoholism, you don't want to be enabling her like that! If she's not, it may give her some incentive to get a job of her own!

 

This is not healthy behavior. I have battled depression and anxiety since I was a teen, and though I never had the energy to go to the bar all night, those are almost exactly the hours I would sleep/wake. Has she expressed any depression or negative thoughts to you?

 

It is entirely possible that she's going to the bar to see a romantic interest. It's possible she's drowning her sorrows in the bottle. Whatever the reason, she does it (it would seem) at a specific time that you are unable to go with her. Usually I don't condone sneakiness, but if you're dealing with an alcoholic in the making, she may not be completely honest with you. If you have a close friend (one you can trust!) that can shadow her at the bar, I would ask him/her to do so. This way you can find out if she's seeing someone else and/or how much she is drinking while she's out. (If you don't already know.)

 

I'm ripping a page out of "Intervention" here. Sit her down for a good talk. Tell her how her behavior is making you feel, what your worries for her are, what you need her to talk about with you and/or change in her behavior, and how your behavior towards her will change if she's not willing to work with you or talk to you about this.

 

You may have to do the tough love thing. But again, I agree with Michaelangelo, she needs to know that you're not just a bank/backrubber for her. Let her know you want your wife back, and if she's gone, you're not interested in who's there instead.

 

Good luck!

[staquinas]

I'm hearing three common threads...

 

The first, that she is spending time with some other guy, I'm really doubtful of. I go to the bar randomly (I personally don't like hanging out at most bars - not my level of conversation - I like a good logical debate about politics or the like, and I'm not a heavy drinker - 1-2 drinks max, and that is usually only one night per week, if that.). She is almost always talking to/hanging out with her "bar friends", which consist of a bunch of women in their early 30s to mid 40s. I've never seen her really talking to a guy, other then a couple gay guys (and yes, they are gay). Essentially, I'm just not worried about her cheating on me.

 

The second theme I'm hearing is that I'm acting like the parent, and I've even heard that from my wife. I'm not sure what to do about it, as any time I would try to restrict the bar, by not giving her money or transportation, it would just seem to re-enforce that parent/child anology. Usually, what I hear is "you're acting just like my dad!" - and I'm not sure what else to do, when obviously someone needs to be responsible, and it isn't her.

 

The third thing I'm hearing is depression or substance abuse, and I think she very well may be depressed - but, at least to me, that is something that can only be fixed by the person who is depressed, and only if they want to.

 

A couple other things - I work on salary in a job where I can work from home most the time, and I can set my own hours, within reason, so it does not really cut into my work to do the stuff, it just sidetracks me drastically.

 

I've tried talking to her, both from the "you can't keep it up, it is bad for you" and from the "just tell me what is wrong" perspective, and never really gotten anywhere - she gets furious that we are talking about it, and either storms off, or breaks down crying.

 

I'm not sure how to go thetough love route without getting into the parent/child thing again...

 

It would be so much simpler if it wasn't for the fact I really do love her. She says she loves me all the time, and I make sure to say it to her, but lately every time she says it, what goes through my mind is "it is very easy to love when you don't have to do anything". I know, a bad sign...

[Ronni_W]

  staquinas said:

I've always been very good at internalizing and simply "coping" or "dealing" with any problems (i.e., letting myself get walked over),

Not that what you have been doing, and how you have been trying to cope, is "wrong" but it obviously isn't working. From that perspective, it has been ineffective and non-productive.

 

You do need to ensure that your living space is habitable, absolutely. But you need not give in to ANY of her unreasonable demands at ANY time.

 

There is a big part of marriage that works exactly like a contract -- each person gives something and also receives something in return.

What is she seeing is her "give" in order to receive her back rubs and bar money? (Forget lunch in bed and free taxi rides...those are unreasonable and you would be reasonable to choose not being a doormat.)

 

This situation is serious, and I'd strongly suggest that the very worst you can do is to fall into your pattern of allowing yourself to "get walked over". It is NOT the time for that and, while that may have helped you "cope" in the past, it will not serve you or your wife well now.

 

I would look upon it as her being sick, right now. (That's not a professional diagnosis or anything close to it...just a suggestion for a mindset for you to adopt in the interim, that may be of assistance to you both.)

That's what I meant by her mind being "fragile" -- as in "on the edge". It is on the inside, and nothing that anyone else can necessarily sense, 'see', or gain hard "evidence" grasp.

 

Again. I do suggest that YOU visit a doctor yourself, and start getting proper, professional advice. This is your life, and your wife's life, and your marriage that is at stake. Get yourself to a medical doctor, and start getting some professional insight and care.

 

There is a case to be made for using "tough love", and doing a dictator-style drag-down to the doctor's or therapist's office. Personally, I would not go that route until I had done "tough love" on myself...and dragged myself down to the doctor's or therapist's, and found out as much as I could from a licensed health care professional.

 

I know this is tough on you. But if it is that your wife has become mentally unbalanced, it is 100% tougher on her. And in that case, she also needs to seen from perspective of what mental imbalance does -- puts one in a childlike state, where there is no "adult" reasoning and functioning.

**IF** this is the case, your optimum interim role would look much more like loving parent.

 

I know that's NOT what you signed up for when you got married. But it may be the reality right now. if you're not up for it, take her back to her parents so that they can get her all the help and support that she may need to get well.

 

Sending angels of Healing and Light.

[Ronni_W]

  staquinas said:

The second theme I'm hearing is that I'm acting like the parent, ... I would try to restrict the bar, by not giving her money or transportation,

Yes, that is decidedly dysfunctional when played out between two rational, sound-minded adults.

That is why your first priority MUST be finding out, professionally, if you do have two rational, sound-minded adults in your house. It's possible that you are the only one, right now.

  Quote

to me, that is something that can only be fixed by the person who is depressed, and only if they want to.

Your thoughts/beliefs about that are inaccurate. It is vital for your wife and for your marriage that you get yourself educated on how debilitating depression can be. Severe depression has led to suicide attempts...and suicide successes, too! Also, homicides and triple-homicides. Depressed individuals can lose control, they lack self-management tools and reasoning. They are frequently unable to admit (incapable of realizing) that they need help, let alone get the help for themselves that they need.

 

Please, please, PLEASE. Do NOT try to make things easier on yourself by minimizing where your wife MAY be. We do not know. Only a medical doctor can help you determine what is the next best step FOR YOUR WIFE.

 

Please do not go changing your lifestyle (work hours and location) in an attempt to "live with" how things currently are. How they currently are for your wife needs to be changed, for her own health's sake, first and foremost.

 

I do agree with you that adultery is likely the LAST thing you need worry about right now. It just seems like there MAY BE a much BIGGER problem.

  Quote

I've tried talking to her, both from the "you can't keep it up, it is bad for you" and from the "just tell me what is wrong" perspective,

What you have been doing has not been working. You don't have the skills and tools to deal with this ON YOUR OWN.

 

Staquinas, it isn't about pride and ego, or right and wrong. It is about loving yourself and loving your wife.

[staquinas]

  Quote

There is a big part of marriage that works exactly like a contract -- each person gives something and also receives something in return.

What is she seeing is her "give" in order to receive her back rubs and bar money? (Forget lunch in bed and free taxi rides...those are unreasonable and you would be reasonable to choose not being a doormat.)

And every time I bring this up, she twists it to sounds like it be her having to pay to get what she wants. She doesn't quite understand quid pro quo.

 

  Quote

Yes, that is decidedly dysfunctional when played out between two rational, sound-minded adults.

That is why your first priority MUST be finding out, professionally, if you do have two rational, sound-minded adults in your house. It's possible that you are the only one, right now.

So, it sounds like I need to try to do the impossible and get my wife to go see a doctor... elephant through eye of needle problem *grin*.

I guess I could, at the very least, discuss this with a doctor myself (we do have full medical, including mental health).

Any suggestions on how to convince her to go see one, other then an ultimatum? And should we see a psych, or councilor, or what first? I am leery of "councilors" in this state, because you do not have to have any type of license or medical training for that title.

[michelangelo]

"Margie",

 

I love you and I am concerned about your health and the state of our life together. So I've made an appointment with Dr. X on August 10th at 10 a.m.

 

We are both going. We need to find out if there is some issue that is of concern.

 

I will not take no for answer, please understand what is at stake.

 

So, be ready by 9 on the 10th so we can be on time.

 

====

 

then stop talking and maybe even walk away from her.

 

If she rebels, refuses, or anything then say this:

 

Fine, you don't want to go? Is it worth it to you that much to live this way and have us divorce? Because that is the alternative. This is your chance to work towards a happy and healthy life with me.

 

 

=====

 

and mean it!!!!!

 

If she still refuses, start divorce proceedings.

[Ronni_W]

  staquinas said:

I guess I could, at the very least, discuss this with a doctor myself (we do have full medical, including mental health).

Yes, exactly. Let your medical professional then advise as to alternatives and suggestions on what your most effective and productive next step might be.

 

**IF** she is currently in need of mental health care, then she may not have mental capacity to fully grasp the implications of adult concepts such as the mutuality inherent in contracts and "quid pro quo".

[Daisyloo]

Hi Staquinas,

I'm sorry to hear about the rough time you're going through.

 

A couple of years ago a friend of mine was behaving in a very similar way to your wife. She wanted us to spend time together but it always had to be me that drove the 40min journey to her house so I could either watch her drink at home or take her to a bar and do the same there. She could never see how her actions (or assumptions) were unreasonable and I just kind of let her walk all over me cos I cared and didn't want to hurt her. A mutual friend spoke to her a couple of times and tried to get my friend to see that she was abusing my good nature and my friendship but she couldn't see that at that time.

 

The crux came when another friend really needed some support and attention when going through a very tough time and my friend really refused to understand why I had to go to the other girl and why "she came first now" as she saw it. I sat my friend down and explained that I had other commitments and focusses in my life than just her and took the opportunity to explain that I HAD to keep other people in my life because when I felt low or down I had to have somewhere to turn too and I couldn't call on her for that because there was little point spilling my heart out to someone who was drunk and wouldn't remember the conversation the following day never mind be able to give me constructive advice.

 

This certainly got through a bit and she saw how upset it was making me and how hard I found it all. She had very limited contact with me after that, mostly not answering my calls and just sending me occasional texts. At the time I was mortified and thought it was cos she hated me but now I can see she felt guilty and needed to stop the reliance on me before she could start 'fixing' herself.

 

She later began going to an alcohol dependence counsellor and worked at the things which were straining her (her house, job etc) and essentially cleaned out her skeletons.

 

3 years on she is a completely improved version of herself. It's taken her time and a huge ammount of effort and strength but she's now getting married in a week, in a job she loves, and only drinking occasionally when she goes out.

 

I've told you this to highlight that sometimes people need to see things for themself but they also might need to be told what is wrong in their actions. I think you should restrain yourself from going home at lunch times and likewise try to leave the housework as long as possible so she can start to see what it would be like without someone clearing up. You could also arrange going out - cinema, theatre, bowling - whatever floats your boat and make a point of inviting her whilst making it clear you'll be going either way - she'll see she's missing out on the best of 'you as you' and 'you as a couple'. Failing this I think you should write her a heartfelt letter telling how much you adore and want her but what it is in her actions that are hurting you.

 

Sorry this turned into an essay .

Hope some of it is of some help Xxx