JackJack Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 OK, this is coming from another thread over in marriage. How important is it to you, to honor your commitment in your marriage or relationship with your spouse or partner if you were not being treated right? It could be abuse (any form). Anything where you know in your heart and mind enough is enough. You tired, worn out, you've done your part, everything you know to do. You are no longer the person you once were because of the way your partner has treated you. Is staying to honor your commitment even though you're not happy and at your wits end, more important than your happiness, and self respect? *I forgot to add, this is all based on your spouse not changing, not trying to change or made it clear to you in actions they are not going to change.*
Lizzie60 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I say someone would be pretty stupid to 'honour' a commitment with an abuser.. I don't get it.. A commitment to who? to what? for who? for what? really..
PandorasBox Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I would say, no I would not stay, and I didn't. I have already been there. I was abused mentally and emotionally and cheated on. I got out of that. I would not and did not tolerate that kind of treatment. I think more of myself than to continue to be treated that way. No commitment is that important to honor it by staying in something harmful.
Ronni_W Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Is staying to honor your commitment even though you're not happy and at your wits end, more important than your happiness, and self respect? For me, it is fine, reasonable and appropriate to change one's mind about any "commitment", contract, promise or vow entered into previously....when it stops working for WHATEVER reason. (There doesn't have to be what we commonly refer to as "abuse" of any kind.) All contracts have an inherent "end point". One party gives/receives something, and the other party receives/gives something; and it is concluded when the giving and receiving cease. Relationship/marriage contracts, seen in their proper context, are no different. Yes, mine is more from a perspective that is not, er, all that mainstream. And I don't mean that we get to run at the first, tiny sign of unhappiness or "trouble". I do believe the first course of action ought to be to see if the contract can be amended to mutual satisfaction. I have a Greater Contract that I do not wish to ignore, and will not renege on. I guess I would put it that way. <nods> Yeah...
Meaplus3 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 OK, this is coming from another thread over in marriage. How important is it to you, to honor your commitment in your marriage or relationship with your spouse or partner if you were not being treated right? It could be abuse (any form). Anything where you know in your heart and mind enough is enough. You tired, worn out, you've done your part, everything you know to do. You are no longer the person you once were because of the way your partner has treated you. Is staying to honor your commitment even though you're not happy and at your wits end, more important than your happiness, and self respect? *I forgot to add, this is all based on your spouse not changing, not trying to change or made it clear to you in actions they are not going to change.* I think there comes a point when "Enough is enough" when living with an abuser. One can only do and give so much to honor a commitment under such circumstances. In my case my STBX would not even make an effort to see his behavior as wrong.. not healthy for me to stay, or anyone for that matter. AP:)
Author JackJack Posted July 29, 2008 Author Posted July 29, 2008 For me, it is fine, reasonable and appropriate to change one's mind about any "commitment", contract, promise or vow entered into previously....when it stops working for WHATEVER reason. (There doesn't have to be what we commonly refer to as "abuse" of any kind.) *You're right, it doesn't have to be based on "abuse." I was using that as an example. It could be that, or simply just not being treated right period. *Also just to clairfy, I wasn't meaning for people to just throw in the towel when an incident arises. I was meaning something that had been on going for awhile with little to no effort on the other persons part as far as trying to help fix things.
mental_traveller Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 IMO you should honour your commitment up until you tell them you are no longer going to honour it. So, if they are making no effort at all, for an extended period of time, and you have warned them several times - I think you should then say right, you're making no effort, this marriage/relationship is over. Then end it, and you can do what you like.
mental_traveller Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I say someone would be pretty stupid to 'honour' a commitment with an abuser.. I don't get it.. A commitment to who? to what? for who? for what? really.. Yeah. That's kind of like honouring a contract with a fraudster, or sticking to a non-aggression pact with a country that invades you
Ronni_W Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 to clairfy, ...I was meaning something that had been on going for awhile with little to no effort on the other persons part as far as trying to help fix things. For me, even if they DID put in great effort and gave all that they have to give, my personal assessment of the value of that effort (value in relation to my ability to be, do and have according to aforementioned 'Greater Contract') is my key factor.
quankanne Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 abuse is a definite deal-breaker, and no vow of commitment is worth a lifestyle of abuse. And I've got my church backing me up on that one, so the "before God and everyone" card doesn't work. I think I'd truly throw in the towel if my spouse refused to try to heal the marriage by doing whatever necessary, but I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, because he woke up and realized that something was going to have to change, and that we needed tools to learn how to communicate so we could be on the same page. Had he not had that timely epiphany, I'd have filed for divorce.
stefspets Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 *I forgot to add, this is all based on your spouse not changing, not trying to change or made it clear to you in actions they are not going to change.* This is the big part for me--if there was no effort to change despite communicating that change needed to happen (in both people) in order for the relationship to move forward, then I wouldn't stay.
Owl Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Define "honor your committment"... If you mean "stay married"...well, there are boundaries and reasons why you can/should get a divorce. After a certain point, absolutely there are times when a divorce is your best, or even your only choice and course of action. If you mean "stay faithful"...there is no excuse or good 'reason' for cheating on your spouse. It doesn't matter how you percieve that they have mistreated you, two wrongs don't make a right. If they "break" their side of the committment, then your choice to DISSOLVE that agreemant is totally fine and acceptable. But a unilateral choice to cheat isn't.
Author JackJack Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Define "honor your committment"... If you mean "stay married"...well, there are boundaries and reasons why you can/should get a divorce. After a certain point, absolutely there are times when a divorce is your best, or even your only choice and course of action. If you mean "stay faithful"...there is no excuse or good 'reason' for cheating on your spouse. It doesn't matter how you percieve that they have mistreated you, two wrongs don't make a right. If they "break" their side of the committment, then your choice to DISSOLVE that agreemant is totally fine and acceptable. But a unilateral choice to cheat isn't. It would be along the lines of "staying married". This was a question I had in reguards to another thread in the marriage forum.
Owl Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Fair enough. I think that there ARE limits to what somone should reasonably expect in any relationship. If the other partner in those relationships refuses to meet those reasonable expectations...if they're made aware of them, and still refuse to improve things...then I feel that its acceptable to divorce. In that case, they're already reneging on the "contract". So the only reasonable thing to do is to terminate the contract honorably.
Moose Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 With my upbringing, watching my mother marry and divorce 4 times, and how each step-dad treated me and my siblings coupled with 5 of my own children necessitates staying together. (in my mind) My spouse doesn't abuse me physically, she doesn't or hasn't cheated on me, (as far as I know), she doesn't let the house get too out of hand....she just doesn't do a whole lot to be honest. She takes great care of the kids, although they walk all over her and that drives me TOTALLY insane because they believe they can walk all over me. She finally treats me with some degree of respect, and I can do pretty much anything my little heart desires. Our sex life may be nearly non-existant, and I'm the one who has to initiate it.....she has no drive to initiate on her own, but I've grown used to it. In short, we live together, she has the Church that she's heavily involved in, and I have my career(s) and projects at home that I'm heavily involved in. We co-exist.....and that's the only thing that bothers me. I feel like I'm babbling...
Ronni_W Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 She finally treats me with some degree of respect, ... Our sex life may be nearly non-existant, ... We co-exist..... That's interesting, Moose (didn't feel like a "babble" to me) because it's not exactly the definition of the generally accepted er, 'standard' of what "marital commitment" entails, is it? BUT I'm also getting that you are strongly committed to living up to some commitment that you made to yourself, or your kids, or the woman-person (as opposed to the "wife-entity", if that makes sense?) Or, your commitment could be to all of you, as a group, and to the particular lifestyle that is in place from which the group is drawing comfort and support, individually. So, maybe your commitment is to a 'Bigger Picture', that extends past the traditional expectations/demands/ideas underlying marital vows? Okay...now it feels like I'm babbling. I'll end by saying that I do offer wishes that the things that are bothersome to you now will improve, somehow, some day, in some way.
Moose Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 So, maybe your commitment is to a 'Bigger Picture', that extends past the traditional expectations/demands/ideas underlying marital vows?Yes, I would agree wholeheartedly to this description. I wanted to provide a family atmosphere for my own kids. They would never worry about where they'll live, what they'll eat, or if they're going to be waken up in the middle of the night with a 30/30 rifle pointed at their heads. Most importantly, they'll "always have mom and dad and the security that they ain't goin' nowheres...."
Author JackJack Posted July 30, 2008 Author Posted July 30, 2008 Yes, I would agree wholeheartedly to this description. I wanted to provide a family atmosphere for my own kids. They would never worry about where they'll live, what they'll eat, or if they're going to be waken up in the middle of the night with a 30/30 rifle pointed at their heads. Most importantly, they'll "always have mom and dad and the security that they ain't goin' nowheres...." I would think thats reasonable and that most people would want that for the kids. But, I think there comes a time when its good to weigh the options and find out whats more important and more healthy for all involved. That is assuming if things aren't good, all things have been tried and things are just going around and around in a cycle.
Ronni_W Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I wanted to provide a family atmosphere for my own kids. They would never worry about where they'll live, what they'll eat, Most importantly, they'll "always have mom and dad and the security that they ain't goin' nowheres...." Understandable and commendable and, I'm sure, something the kids will always appreciate...even if only unconsciously. (Sometimes hard to 'see' what one has, without a contrasting view from which to compare.) Have you considered what you may (or may not) do when THIS commitment becomes obsolete? That is, once the kids become self-sufficient and self-reliant? Or...best not to go there at this time? -- That is understandable, too
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