stoopid_guy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I am a bit perplexed at why I am getting so much negative feedback when people stay in relationships for lots of reasons other than love and I am trying to do something that I think will be good for my children. Becasuse this is "LoveShack.org," not "Raising-your-kids-together-platonically-Shack.org"
Rorocher Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Kids adjust, even when they don't see one parent every day. They are not handicapped, they are children and they are resilient. Don't take that power away from them. A healthy divorce situation is way way way better than a passive-agressive "staying together for the kids" situation.
Phateless Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 sHe has had a say in the matter. I have already told him how much he's hurt me etc etc and we came to the decision that it is still better for the kids to have 2 parents. If I didn't have kids, sure I would leave. I would have left years ago. He knows exactly what the score is. What I need is just practical advice from people in the same situation The kids will still have two parents. The kids' perceptions of what a healthy functional relationship is are based on what they see from you two. Do you want them to grow up and find emotionally distant partners? It's far better for them to see the two of you in real relationships so that they have some conception of what that is.
luna3 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 well, you insist that this is the thing that you've chosen to do and now you want advice on how to do it. you say that you have no time for an affair, and how to go about resolving the need for sexual intimacy when in this situation. since it is obvious that you don't want sex with your husband, that leaves only 3 options that i can see: go without, masturbate, or get a lover. in the situation you describe, your husband is sure to do the same. have you considered what that is going to be like? the poster above who says that he is sure to "cheat" again, if it can be called that at this point in a mutually-agreed upon affectionless marriage, is spot on. he's going to find his bliss elsewhere. what are you going to do? and how will this affect the kids? have you both agreed to absolute discretion? will you inform each other politely behind closed doors so that there are no rude surprises to blow the complacency apart? what if you are out with the kids and see daddy with his "girlfriend" at the amusement park? or vice versa? the only way this is going to work for the long term is for you and your spouse to sit down and openly talk about every possible permutation of what might happen, and how you are going to deal with it. if you are intent on keeping up this deception in front of your kids, then you need to both find a plan that will work for you and stick with it. and don't believe any vows about "oh, she'll never call me at home in the evenings...i'm sure of that" because you can't be sure. eventually, your marriage will contain more than the two people who signed the license, and those other people's actions can't be controlled or even predicted very well. as others have said, it might be rather difficult to find someone to be involved in a "relationship" with you when you have this additional baggage. not impossible, but just difficult. if you do seek affection elsewhere, you're going to have to be either really blunt about what you're looking for ("just a booty-call, please don't phone") or you are going to have to be willing to explain yourself and the limitations, in as much detail as you've done here, each time you go out to find someone. that, of course, means opening yourself up to the same kinds of observations and questions that you've seen here. it may get old quickly. see a lawyer, above all. be prepared for any eventuality!
Phateless Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I just want to say again that this whole situation sets up SUCH a distorted view for the children of what a relationship is in the first place. How in the _ _ _ _ can you possibly think this is better?
Angel1111 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I think the negative feedback you're getting is based on the fact that some of us think that your "sticking it out" has an opposite effect that what you intend - it isn't the best thing for your kids. You and your H could be Academy Award winning actors and still not be able to fake the emotional connection that will shape your kid's relationships and marriages as they grow up. People do this ALL the time. Either way, kids are going to experience some kind of negativity.
VivianGirl Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 All I can say is that you have the right to feel the way you do. And I know that you have made this decision but if you are asking for tips you may not be entirely comfortable with it. But I would try to move yourself out of survivor mode. You don't have to like your spouse right now but get into counseling just for yourself. You need to take care of you whether you stay, go or waffle in between. It will help you work through those feelings and maybe it would help figure out what strategies work out best for you -- seeing a lawyer, getting your finances in order, etc. Or (and I know this maybe a stretch for you) to ultimately stay. But you need a third-party to help you through this and it could be done with your H if he is willing to go and if you want that. And kids are really good at coping. Your situation is like probably thousands of others and that comment about warping your kids is so far off the mark. Otherwise, we would have so many warped people walking the streets. And some warped people come from good solid homes anyway. So be a good mom. Talk to your kids and just let them know that moms and dads go through rough times like everyone else but that you will both figure it out. I feel like I am where you are at -- my husband has shown himself to be unfaithful, unreliable, and at times incapable of being a responsible partner. His negativity and depression has created all sorts of crisises and it has been a struggle to deal with that. Why do I stay? At first, I thought he was changing and he did in small ways and I wanted to support him as he was my H, but some things remain the same I realize now so now I plan for a future without him. I need to think of myself and kids. And yes, money and insurance play a huge part in this, for everyone in our family. I heard once that by getting divorced, people immediately experience a drop of $66,000 in income. And due to medical concerns and insurance I don't want to create bigger problems and I am not out to get him or anything like that. So, what have I done? I have gotten a job. I have gone to a counselor. Also, I used to drag him to a counselor (but I stopped after he told a mutual (single) friend about the good ol' single days he had and that he would like to have again) I try to spend time with positive people who reinforce my self-esteem. And I tell him what I think of his behavior, good and bad. It doesn't mean that I rage at him but it does mean that I let him know that I do want to be treated better. It has been my goal during our entire marriage to never resort to name-calling or profanities and that has worked out well. When I started to work past the anger and grief and focus on myself, things became clearer. I feel that together we do better as parents than we do as married partners and I have a goal to when I want to leave. Is it dishonest? Maybe to some. But he knows that I am unhappy and has even commented that he won't be the one to leave. So, focus on yourself and kids. Work through some of this stuff with a counselor and you will get to the other side and it won't seem like you have to just put up with something.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 People do this ALL the time. Either way, kids are going to experience some kind of negativity. No, people TRY to do this all the time. Usually, the only people they fool are themselves. Do you really think it's healthy for your kids to grow up and never see Mom and Dad hold hands, hug, embrace or kiss? Do you think that children can't sense the tension when Mom and Dad barely tolerate each other? While I understand why you're doing what you're doing - and there are some noble and selfless aspects to it - you are martyring yourself for the wrong cause. Like beauty, happiness is as happiness does. You've got to live it before you can teach it to your kids... Mr. Lucky
Angel1111 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 No, people TRY to do this all the time. Usually, the only people they fool are themselves. Do you really think it's healthy for your kids to grow up and never see Mom and Dad hold hands, hug, embrace or kiss? Do you think that children can't sense the tension when Mom and Dad barely tolerate each other? While I understand why you're doing what you're doing - and there are some noble and selfless aspects to it - you are martyring yourself for the wrong cause. Like beauty, happiness is as happiness does. You've got to live it before you can teach it to your kids... Mr. Lucky The only person I've ever heard of getting an award for being a martyr was Jesus Christ. No, I don't think it's healthy for kids to grow up in a loveless marriage. But I'm not sure I even know what healthy means any more when people talk about this subject. It's not healthy for them to have their home ripped apart, either. I left my son's dad because I would've shot myself otherwise. And if I needed any validation on this topic, when my son was younger, he would freak out if anyone even made a squeak about his dad and I getting back together. Not that he doesn't love his dad, because he does. Sometimes his dad tries him but I don't let him talk disrespectfully about him. His dad and I actually battled in court for 6 yrs (long story). When I finally won the appeal, his dad told our son how horrible I was. My son told me that up until that time, he didn't even know anything was going on. My son isn't your average kid, either. Teachers always tell me that they can't believe he's a child of divorce (imagine that). When I showed up at a school thing last yr, his art teacher was so happy to meet me and told me so many wonderful things about my son that I can't even list them all. It completely warmed my heart. When I would tell others what a good kid he is, they would try to warn me that once he became a teenager, to watch out because he would change and become difficult. He's 17 and I'm still waiting for this change. The mom of one of his friends told me that she wants one of his drawings - signed - because she knows he's going to be famous someday and she wants that sucker on her wall. She said that she didn't know in what way he would be famous, but she fully believes he will be. More than one person has said this in different ways. He is charismatic, confident, happy, talented, highly intelligent, and funny as hell. Needless to say, I'm extremely proud of this kid. And he's a product of divorce. So, needless to say, I am not against divorce when kids are involved, and I don't believe it ruins them. I can tell you that making the decision to leave my marriage was the hardest thing I've ever done because it went against everything I believed in. And I wouldn't leave until I convinced myself that I wasn't going to do serious damage to my son. But do I understand why people stay? Absolutely. In my case, the pain of being in my marriage was just too great. If it hadn't been, if it had been merely loveless but tolerable, I would probably still be married. The truth is, kids are subject to their parents' choices and whatever decision they make about this is the decision the kids get to live with. Is one decision worse than the other? I don't know. But I truly believe that the parents know what the best move would be based on their own situation. If they believe they can make things better after a divorce, then they most likely will. But if they don't have faith in that, then they shouldn't do it because if they believe their life will be worse after divorce, it most likely will be. That's why it's never a good idea to coerce people into doing things they don't feel comfortable doing. Because if they do, it will backfire.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 But if they don't have faith in that, then they shouldn't do it because if they believe their life will be worse after divorce, it most likely will be. That's why it's never a good idea to coerce people into doing things they don't feel comfortable doing. Because if they do, it will backfire. As someone who also went through a divorce with a child involved, I agree with much of what you say. BTW, congrats on a great kid! Not easy to do in this day and age, married or divorced . My wife is an elementary school teacher and, as I hear it from her, well-behaved kids are more the exception than the rule today. However, I would hate to think that "lack of faith" would keep the OP or anyone else in an unsuccessful and unhealthy marriage. Doing the right thing for ones self and children might not be easy but even you might agree the empowerment you feel when you realize that you're in control of your own emotional destiny is worth it... Mr. Lucky
Angel1111 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 As someone who also went through a divorce with a child involved, I agree with much of what you say. BTW, congrats on a great kid! Not easy to do in this day and age, married or divorced . My wife is an elementary school teacher and, as I hear it from her, well-behaved kids are more the exception than the rule today. However, I would hate to think that "lack of faith" would keep the OP or anyone else in an unsuccessful and unhealthy marriage. Doing the right thing for ones self and children might not be easy but even you might agree the empowerment you feel when you realize that you're in control of your own emotional destiny is worth it... Mr. Lucky I agree but people have to do what they think is right for them. I never looked back on leaving my marriage because I gave it so much thought before I did it, and I knew I couldn't stay. But as my life is now, I honestly cannot say I'm happy. My son is wonderful but, on a personal level, I am very unhappy and disappointed with my life. So, taking that leap of faith has no guarantees, either.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 But as my life is now, I honestly cannot say I'm happy. My son is wonderful but, on a personal level, I am very unhappy and disappointed with my life. So, taking that leap of faith has no guarantees, either. Nope, no guarantees provided. And sometimes only a choice between two very difficult alternatives. But I'd still rather be the one making that choice based on what was best for me and my child than remain a victim of circumstances. You've got to take your victories where life lets you find them ... Mr. Lucky
quankanne Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 i give up for the day! Yes, I seriously want to do this. I have already been doing it for two years. I didn't post because I have a dilemma about whether I feel I have done the right thing. I just wanted advice from people in this situation. You are right I don't love him and yes the trust is seriously broken. Which is why I could no longer consider a relationship with him. I am a bit perplexed at why I am getting so much negative feedback when people stay in relationships for lots of reasons other than love and I am trying to do something that I think will be good for my children. you didn't initially paint a picture of what your marriage is like, other that you were in an unhappy marriage, and my answer looked at some possibilities ... YOU are the only one who can say for sure what decision will fit best in your case, but don't fuss about advice when it's contrary to what you want to hear. I'm just pointing out what I've observed as for the kids, splitting up with their other parent is never going to be an easy thing but i'd reckon that the smaller they are, the less harder it is for them to adapt to a split because they're not fighting memories the way older kids do. Again, this is based on what I've observed within my own family ...
quankanne Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 that comment about warping your kids is so far off the mark. clarification: Kids who live in an abusive environment have a warped outlook on the meaning of love IF they do not have a healthy model of it. Being in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids messes with their heads at some point, because then they start feeling responsible for the ones they love being stuck in that environment because of them ... that Mom or Dad gave up the chance to be happy because of them. Much in the way kids think that their parents split up because of them – they see everything in relation to themselves, and don't understand it's a separate world when it comes to their parents' relationship. there's also the kinds of relationship you want to model: Are you going to be the martyr for sticking around with a lying, cheating dirty dog of a spouse you can't stand, are you going to be fool for doing that, the one who is too weak to leave? At some point, kids look at their parents' relationships and question their motives for being together. And as someone pointed out in another post, they're not going to be happy about being lied to when they realize it's not supposed to be like that. but hey, it's only my two cents
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I know you asked for practical advice, yet there is a defined split of opinion about the benefits of staying together for children. As the child of parents who stayed together for the kids (6 in total) I can wholeheartedly say that if my mother asked me today what I would have preferred, it would have been for them to separate. Not only do I feel guilt that my (now deceased) father lived a life of marital unhappiness because of us, my mother eventually resented the things some of her children did with their lives because she felt she had sacrificed so many years. Do you both not deserve happiness? Do the children deserve the pressure that your source of happiness will be gleaned from them?
Phateless Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 that comment about warping your kids is so far off the mark. clarification: Kids who live in an abusive environment have a warped outlook on the meaning of love IF they do not have a healthy model of it. Being in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids messes with their heads at some point, because then they start feeling responsible for the ones they love being stuck in that environment because of them ... that Mom or Dad gave up the chance to be happy because of them. Much in the way kids think that their parents split up because of them – they see everything in relation to themselves, and don't understand it's a separate world when it comes to their parents' relationship. there's also the kinds of relationship you want to model: Are you going to be the martyr for sticking around with a lying, cheating dirty dog of a spouse you can't stand, are you going to be fool for doing that, the one who is too weak to leave? At some point, kids look at their parents' relationships and question their motives for being together. And as someone pointed out in another post, they're not going to be happy about being lied to when they realize it's not supposed to be like that. but hey, it's only my two cents That's exactly where I was going with that. Kids need a healthy model of a relationship. It would be far better to see both of their parents involved with other people in a happy and healthy way than for them to see their parents as roommates with no lovelife. Or worse, see their parents living together but bringing other people home. I think it would be a far better model for the kids to see you two seperate and dating other people than to live together as roommates...
Mustang Sally Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I think one of the (many) things to ask oneself when considering staying vs leaving is what would you want your (grown) children to do for themselves, if faced with a similar situation later in their life/lives? As parents, we are certainly one of the (if not the) most influential role models our children have. I know I have asked myself that many times. And my answer to that question has been a catalyst to propel me to where I am now. Just something to think about. As far as practical advice, I think VivianGirl stated it very well. Don't be a doormat to your spouse or a martyr to your marriage. Love your kids. Be civil to your spouse. Frankly, I admit that I'm sure I would struggle to live up to all of that long-term if I felt little but civil indifference (or worst case: distaste or resentment) towards my spouse. I wish you success and eventual resolution.
vedderbetter Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I am a product of the "stay together for the kids in a loveless marriage" and I can tell you that when my dad finally told me he was leaving my dirtbag mother when I was 16, I was SO RELIEVED! It took me several years of therapy to figure out that the main reason why I didn't know how to have a successful relationship with a man is because the only example of a relationship I knew was one where everybody involved is miserable all the time. It doesn't matter if you don't fight or if you're nice to each other. You're not IN LOVE at ALL and that is teaching your children that marraige is nothing more than a financially motivated living arrangement and totally spits in the face of the real meaning of marriage. Plus, then you get to crush them with guilt when you tell them that the only reason you suffered all those years with a man you didn't love, sacrificing your own happiness and fullfillment, was solely because of them. Martyr much? You are going to completely alienate your children if you tell them this. After my parents split, my relationship with them both actually improved because they themselves improved and became happy healthy adults. A miserable household tied together only by money matters and convenience and absent of love does not a happy child make. You think you're fooling them but you're not.
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